LL Armstrong the same reason they forgave Regina. They both took steps to redeem themselves and truly wanted to be good, and they made sacrafices along the way. Zelena sacraficed Hades, the love of her life, and all of her magical power. If Regina was forgiven why not Zelena? Its about time the heroes accept Zelena on their side, because she just wants to help them.
The difference is Regina earned their respect, and then their forgiveness. When they had a common goal, Regina contributed just as much as anyone else. Hell, there were many times when Regina would go above & beyond everyone else to save the people she loved. Zelena does nothing but whine. Even when everyone's on the same page & she's joined Team Good Guys, she still does nothing but whine.
When Neal call rumple "papa" he sounds like a little boy. So sweet and innocent. I believe this is one thing that pushed rumple to darkness. He lost someone that he spent so many years trying to find. His son. Such a heartbreaking moment for poor rumple.
And the writer made up some stupid reason to kick him out of underworld, kick him off the show, because they know Neal will always be Emma first choice, he sacrificed so much for her and died before they can have their own happy ending...
***** You mean Graham? Yeah. It can't be much of a picnic for Rumple, either; he's spent his life trying to get his son back, and spent a year of madness sharing a body with him, and he *still* had to watch him die.
Especially for Rumple. His boy was literally his reason for doing everything he did - for all of his desperation, all the evil he has done, all to be a better father and to save his son from his predicted demise. He's already said "All I have is my boy" and it is true. He doesn't even have himself anymore. Without his son, there's nothing left of him.
People always wonder why Rumple's a fulltime bad guy these days, and this is why. Everything he ever did, no matter how dark or cruel, was all for the love of his son and so that he could find him again. To have his son taken from him, to be denied justice for him, to be another pet to someone you hate. That is more than enough to make someone turn.
All rumple did was try to find happiness. Be reunited with his son, the one mistake the one deal he ever turned down or broke... All he did like you said, only to have it be taken away.... I really like Rumple and I can empathize with his character.
"Go find Tallahassee.....even if it's without me." God damn it who brought all the onions?!!! As much as I love Emma and Hook, I loved Neal too as a character, and I did really like what Emma and Neal had too, it was almost impossible to choose a ship........
I know right and when he said I love you papa I cried like a baby and I can never get over his death plus him and Emma r so much better and he was my favroit character 😭😭😦😦😭😭😥😥😔
It's so sad knowing that Neal's death was kinda in vain seeing as his father hasn't changed one bit, Neal shouldn't have died he didn't desvere to, Henry lost his father and Emma her first love
Ikr?!!!?!!?!?! Rumple learned fucking nothing from neals sacrifice, or his OWN. His son died for nothing, as his last words were fond words of the man he had become, but alas, he has become a coward again
I actually think that Rumple's actions are mostly spurred by this event and Zelena keeping him captive. I think that he started off Season 4 with genuine intentions, but then he realized, what did being a hero and making sacrifices get him? His son is dead and he was kept captive by Zelena, and was almost forced to kill Belle. So he decided he never wanted to wake up and worry about people getting his dagger. Unfortunately, once he had the dagger in his possession again and saw the Sorcerer's hat, his addiction kicked in again, causing him to steer back to where he is now despite everything that has happened. I still have hope for Rumple's redemption, but I think it'll definitely take some time.
MsFriendsfan4ever Very true. Right now I think he's thinking that being a hero only got his son killed and almost his wife killed as well, so he's decided to go back to being the Dark One to get his happy ending(and therefore Belle's as well), and teaming up with the QOD is a good way to do that. That line of thinking's not going to work in the end, of course. He needs Belle to wake him up and pull him out of his addiction to power. I don't know how long that will take or what trouble Rumbelle will have in the mean time, but I'll always keep hoping for his happy ending. :) (Had to retype all this because my cat stepped on the backspace key, so it's probably not as comprehensive as the first time, but oh well... xD)
I cant believe you still see rumple as the bad guy when everything was actually zelena's fault she founded the dagger she kept rumple in for so long and she was the one Who killed neal not rumple. I believe rumple has changed But his hatred for zelena was bigger he didnt wanted to be controled by the dagger because it made him hear voices he didnt wanted to hear imagine being stuck with someone you hate and that someone is controling you. Of course he would Turn evil! He foughted so long to find neal only to lose him again against zelena so this accusations are so damn wrong. When bad things happens or when someone we love dies we become sad and angry because we couldn't do anything. So stop blaming rumple because of his past. That's like blaming you for the mistakes you are trying to fix that you made.
Oh man it's been YEARS but the acting in this scene always gets me. Just hearing Emma say "Neal", the way Neal sounds like little Baelfire every time he says "Papa" and Rumple's heart breaking oof I'm crying all over again
This is what I imagine went on in the writing room for this episode; Writers "alright so let's get rid of Neal so Hook and Emma can finally be a couple. Let's make it as heart shattering as possible so the viewers will weep consistently." *Malicious evil laughter* "This one will cripple them for a month!!" *Collective evil laughter*. 😭😂😅
Weeks later as I re-watch this scene. I noticed something and i love it. Neal died with Rumples name (Papa) on his lips. He truly evolved as a character. Even with as little screen time as he had he still loved his Papa and would do anything for him. So sad and so beautiful all at the same time.
I'm still not over this death I cried when I watched it Emma's reaction was sad but rumples was hart breaking when he said "I love you son " omg I bawled 😭
The acting in this scene is undeniably phenomenal. I felt Emma and Rumple's pain. The face Emma makes at 3:18 says it all. You can see the utter disbelief but at the same time the "Oh my God, he's really gone" look in her eye. And though none of my parents have died, thankfully, it makes me almost empathize with her because it makes me imagine how I'd feel if they did. As for Rumple, he looked absolutely crushed. Amazing cast, I'll never forget them.
They said someone would have died, but Neal? Neal, for God's sake! I was never a great fan of him, but... he dies? My God, so all the curse was completely useless!
This is the most emotional show I have ever watched. I am a 36 year old man and I watch this daily with my 3 son's. We are at the beginning of season 4. I always thought people who get attached to a show was ridiculous. I am so emotionally involved with these characters I now understand. There has never been anything move me like the love Rumple has for his child. Him and Anikan Skywalker both went out of the blue and into the black for the ones they love. I hope if the day ever came that I too will be brave enough to do what ever it takes to protect and make things right like Rumple.
Your not alone there saying "you thought people who get attached to a show was ridiculous. I am so emotionally involved with these characters I now understand." I too am involved and love these characters! Rumple is by far my favorite on the show! Robert Carlyle is the best actor on the show and he truly has a gift for playing Rumple so well! I'm going to be sad the day I hear when the show will end. :(
Rene Vinet THANK YOU!!! Everyone goes on and on about the romantic relationships and true love but THIS- This villain who deep down was just a poor single father that only tried to do right by his son, and the kid that tried for most of his life to forget just how much they loved each other- God, this was everything
+Mozart the Meerkitten You know...this pisses me off so much. I would rather Henry's father WAS some random ass fireman as opposed to being Baelfire. Because if he had never been involved with Emma with the writers and creators being such hardcore CaptainSwan shippers then maybe he would still be ALIVE and rebuilding that relationship with Rumple. The story of the father who lost his son and would do anything to get him back was basically what got everything in the Once universe rolling. All of that...all of the time Rumple spent..all of the struggles..for his son to die before they even got a chance to properly reconcile.
@@kiamaria331 yea but Henry wouldn't been alive and if Henry wouldn't have been alive then Emma would never have broken the curse and Rumple and Bae would have never got together
@@kiamaria331 actually not only the creators and writers shipped Captain Swan... Also 99% of the fandom and public. I mean... At first I shipped Neal and Emma but then when Hook came it was love at first sight. I hope they would have found a way to let him live even if not being as a couple with Emma. But the actor wanted to go away... And yes it is heartbreaking that Rumple spent so much time trying to find his son back and then losing him so soon but it is actually quite poetic. At the end with those words "Papa" in a way Rumple achieved his dream: getting his son's love back
As soon as he said “let go” I started bawling, and then when he said “I love you papa” it just made me cry even more. And the sad but amazing music didn’t help!!😭😭
Neal knew that Emma and Hook loved each other with true love. Neal has never been Emma's true love--she had feelings for him and he for her, but Henry was not the product of true love. If Emma and Killian have a child, that sibling of Henry would be a child of true love. Neal was ready to move on (that's why he wasn't in the underworld) after he died. Besides, Killian and Emma have been through so much more together than Neal and Emma had. This show keeps throwing the tenuous connection between Baelfire and Emma at us as if it was supposed to be seen as something powerful when in reality it was mostly "we two heroes had a fling and a kid, and we both care for that kid and for each other, but we ain't exactly besties."
Albus Nix it was literally fate they would meet. The savior and the son of the dark one. They related to each other so much. Neal moved on because he knew Emma and Henry were well. Yes they both tried to move on. But they have always been true lovers. Hook and Emma are nowhere close
Maistir Tell me then--when did Emma and Neal ever defeat dark magic with just the two of them, using true love? Answer: Never. They have never even been implied to be have true love. And it was never fate that Emma and Baelfire would meet, in the sense of it being unavoidable. The Author was not forcing the hands of fate at that point, and it was far more "literally fate" that Emma met Lily than that she met Neal. Claiming fate as not only a player in this situation but also a reason to claim true love is stupid, because otherwise I might as well claim that Emma and Merlin had true love because it was literally fate that pulled Emma and Merlin together. Additionally, Hook has spent more time learning to understand and support and love Emma than Neal ever did. Similarly, Emma has been spending much more time learning how to lower her defenses and show trust and vulnerability around Hook than she ever did around Neal. It is precisely _because_ Neal and Emma were so similar that they never really worked out the way that Emma and Hook go together. Both Emma and Killian may be broken individuals, but each of them has strengths the other lacks, and each can fill the holes in the other's personality.
Albus Nix i don't know why you are so persistent with your statement. Look I know Neal ran away and stuff but he regretted that. I don't care what you say. Captain Swan sickens me. They are broken pieces that DON'T fit. And they loved each other. Yes lily. And Emma met, were friends and it didn't work out but despite all the conflict. Neal and Emma were literally made for each other.
I miss him so much, he deserved better, omg. I started watching OUAT when I was 6 and I grew up with this show, I still can’t believe he die. Him and Emma deserved much more. I want him back, please bring him back to me. What could happen will always haunt me.
Pissed off to the max by his death. His death made no sense and no scene between him and henry. That "i love u papa" unleashed floodgates. Him and Emma were made for each other so for that reason i cant bring myself to like her and hook.😭😭😭😭😭
Rumple loved his son so much that he hobbled himself so he wouldn’t have to grow up fatherless, lost his son to a moment of weakness and cowardice, immediately regretted it, and then spent the next 2 centuries trying to find a way back to him. Cut to grooming Regina to cast his curse, waiting 28 years for it to break, all to be with his son. Then his son “died” and he went on a suicide quest to save his grandson, reunited with his not dead son, and gave his life to kill his father and protect his son and love of his life. Then he’s brought back at the cost of his sons life, and had to choose between his son and freedom, and chose his son, becoming a slave to Zelena, only for his son to die anyway, and he’s still a slave. His turn to darkness again is very justified, and it was only so he wouldn’t ever have to be a slave or lose anyone he loved. His story is so tragic, but his sons death broke him beyond repair
Here is the moment when OUAT ended. Killing Neal/Baelfire sunk the show. He was THE reason why the show even existed....Rumple wanted to find his son at all costs. And then they kill him.
Me too even though this was like half of a year ago I'm still really sad someone spoiled it for me before I watched it and then I watched it and I was crying so hard I loved him so much and I still do he is still in my heart and I still cry myself to sleep almost every night cuz of his death😓
His actor won't be returning, but I'm certain Rumple is going there to save him. He'll probably get close and inevitably fail, probably be locked away forever in Hell by Belle.
Just because they're together in the beginning of the 2nd half of Season 5 doesn't mean they'll stay that way. It's not like they advertised Season 4 by showing Belle forcing Rumple out of Storybrooke.
Well this is how Rumple pushed all the way back to darkness and I can understand why!!!! He spend a LIFETIME trying to find his son, he regreted EVERY SECOND 4 ABANDONING BAE , He found him , HIS SON LOVED HIM AGAIN THEY WERE HAPPY AND HE DIED!!!!Imagine how HEARTBROKEN he must have been in this scene and after knowing that THIS LIFETIME HE SPEND TO FIND HIS SON WAS IN VAIN CAUSE HE DIED!!!After HE GAVE UP TO THE ONLY PERSON THAT'S LEFT 4 HIM, BELLE, AND PUSHED DEEEPER AND DEEPER INTO THE DARKNESS!!! So with a few words ... He is💔
it makes no sense that rumple stands up and walks away as bae is dying. or just stands there and watches as he interacts with emma. it's so out of character it's outrageous. anyone who's seen any of rumple's behavior towards bae, compare this to literally any other scene. he's very physically affectionate with his son and passionate about his fatherly love for him, he would want to be holding and comforting bae as he dies. he'd be way more distraught and out of control - even though it's inevitable that bae is dying, rumple's never "rational" when it comes to bae. but they make rumple act out of character just so they can make the scene about emma and neal, to wrap things up for the swanfire ship. the writers should seriously be ashamed of themselves.
i mean they tried to give rumple and neal a moment too - but having rumple stand there for like a full minute before he suddenly decides to jump in and go "no no i can fix this!" as if it just popped into his head is also unbelievable from a human behavior standpoint. and that little "moment" does no justice to the momentous role that rumple's love for bae has served, as the story's central foundation. i.e. being the reason that the curse happens, that cora and regina learn magic, that snow and charming are able to get together, that emma is orphaned, etc etc ad infinitum - all these events became profound when the story reveals that they have their source in love, in a father's quest to find his son. then it ends in this anticlimax. like the writers just forgot.
Actually, I think the reason he steps away is because he's trying to figure out whether there is any way to keep Baelfire from dying. He is literally trying to distance himself in order to think clearly (or else man up to do what he thinks needs to happen). I suspect that when Rumple says "I can fix this!" he has decided to try and merge with Baelfire again to keep him alive. But Neal says no and chooses to die a hero.
i like your explanation, but i credit Robert Carlyle and Michael Raymond James for playing the scene that way. the incredible acting on this show has always covered up the script's weaknesses
He came back and said "no no I can fix this". Rumplestiltskin reacted just like I expected him to. He hadn't seen bae in years and he saw bae at that point was his own man. I think he reacted just fine to it considering baes feelings towards him.
I watched this show when it first aired as a teen. I remember not caring much about Neal's death, almost happy since it meant Emma and Hook would end up togther I've been watching it again and as an adult his death really hit me. He was a son, a father and a husband and all he ever wanted was to be a family again with Emma and Henry and be able to forgive his father. This scene suddenly became much more painful for me
-Graham dies- "Hhhh he was such a cool character though" -August loses all his memory and turns back into a young child- "?? What the heck? Whatever I guess" -Baelfire/Neal dies- "I give up on life" Hook is awesome, but it wasn't worth Neal/Baelfire dying. He was cool without being the big romance guy.
They were so much better than Emma and hook. They were more Similar they both know what it's like to feel abandoned, unloved, unimportant by their parents Emma spent most of her life believing it and rumple chose power over Baelfire and Milah chose a pirate. They both had to survive on their own in the real world for many years. They both know what it's like to feel lost. Plus they were a way more interesting couple especially in the flashbacks. Not to mention they share a son together. Why did Neal/Baelfire have to die!! 😭😭😭😭. It is so hard to ship a couple when one of them is dead and you know that the writers would never bring him back because so many other people ship another pair😭😭😭. The struggles of a fangirl.
+Jazmine Dee I agree. I guess that we're in the minority in thinking that Emma and Neal had much more chemistry than Emma and Hook. I really get very little out of the Emma-Hook interactions. Snowing is my favorite and they are convincing as a true love couple. I'm not even the biggest Rumbelle fans yet I get way more out of their interactions than Captain Swan. I honestly believe that the characters Rumple and Belle are each other's true loves and they actually have some of the most memorable scenes of the series. Their scenes are so heartfelt and well-acted that you BELIEVE in them as a couple. There's a ton of Captain Swan scenes and they are all so lifeless and unconvincing. All I need to do is to refer to "Manhattan" and the awesome acting by Jennifer Morrison to know that Neal meant more to her than Hook ever will. The way she reacted to Neal in that great episode was a woman who was not only hurt, re-living painful memories of a man who abandoned her, but also of the man she considered her true love. ACTING speaks volumes and Morrison's performance in that episode was tremendous. In the Hook scenes, she's not nearly as convincing. It's like she's trying too hard.
Emma being in love with Hook is another chapter of her life. Neal was her first love, sadly that life chapter of hers has ended, leaving her a son, Henry.
Last I looked, the show is off the air and Captain Swan is a distant memory. But no matter, Neal was Emma's true love. Captain Swan was just the result of insane fangirls obsessed with people's looks and not caring about quality or depth. Neal was a better character than Hook could ever hope to be.
@@drlee2 while the show is over, captain swan was the winner and is the canon ship while the swanfire ship died when neal died. I Honestly don't care about ships as ships tend ruin some shows mostly cw shows. Shippers in general are just annoying and l love to make them mad like I'm doing with you.
I wish Bae had told Rumple to be a good grandpa to Henry. Make a deal with him, that killed this scene even more. I also believe that with time, Rumple could’ve found a way to save Bae.
just to say, when rumple was in underworld in the season 5, if he had seen baelfire , i am sure that he would have sold hook at hades in exchange of the resurrection of baelfire
Neal was Emma's true love. All of this was to keep the crappy Hook character and pimp the disgustingly sick and co-dependent Captain Swan relationship, and in the process ruining Rumple and taking away Henry's only father.
It's probably the most painful thing that ever happened in the history of this show💔I mean imagine,Rumple turned into the dark one,his life with his wife and...was ruined before that,only so he can have his son Baelfire!by the guilt and regret he felt by not going with him through the portal,everything Rumple did as the dark one,manipulating Regina,curse and...all of it was to find a way to reunite with his son again💔on the other side of the story,Baelfire was Neal!the man which Emma,the savior and the daughter of Snow White fell in love with and had Henry with him!after all that happened,exactly when they were reunited for real,rumple could have his son again and Henry his father and Emma could think about making a future with him,Neal dies?💔It's not fair😭😭😭😭😭
When I first started watching this show, and Neal had just come on with his back story and everything, I thought it would be good for Henry to have his parents together, but I fell in love with Captain Swan. When i re-watched this and i heard the part about Tallassee I realized again how meant to be Captain Swan is because of the for-shadowing in this scene saying that it could be with someone else was just writers saying that Captain Swan is meant to be. p.s. I'm still sad Neal had to die I always liked him.
I am not a neal fan, but i never understood why ppl have a hard time understanding why they considered him a hero in the end. 1. He was already a dead man walking BUT he could have waited till they find a way to separate him from his father and maybe not actually die. Instead he asks emma to separate them so that they can find out who is the wicked witch and save everyone, knowing he will most certainly die the minute this happens and 2. Personally i always assumed the heroes found out, or came to the conclusion because there was no other possible option, since snowing didn't do it, that it was neal who sent the message to hook to find emma, endangering himself in order to that. Both of these things are a big deal. Ppl think that he is a hero for no reason or because he resurrected his father to go back to henry and emma (that wasn't it, he did that with no thought of the consequences and after being manipulated by zelena, but the two things i listed above righted his wrong big time)
Its 2021 and I'm not over it... Baé asked his father to let go because they needed him to fight the wicked witch... He trusted him to keep Henry and Emma save to take care of them but it brake my heart that rumple only cared for henry in season 4 and some how at season 5 henry seems like he meant nothing to him he left him in the underward and only cared for bale and his coming baby also in season 6 it was even more disappointing when he made the deal with the black fairy he just assured that bale and gedian will be save and they live as one big family and didnt even cared to ask what will happen to Henry the only thing that left from Baé and he saw Henry when he was hurt and injured and he was remembering everything he new who henry was but he didn't bother to see him no he asked about bale and left like henry was no one and even when henry went to his store and asked him to save his family he said our family he still considered rumple as family but rumple told him that he only cares about bale and he is on his own... Good job betraying your son's trust all over again I mean he trusted you to take care of his kid to keep him save the child you once was willing to give up your life in order for him to live... What change your heart 💔 In that exact moment I new rumple forgot about Baè and already moved on with his new family it's not like I didn't want him to have a family I actually liked Gedion but I wonder if Gedian has a son in the future, I don't think rumple was going to treat him like this... I mean Henry was all alone there having no one asking for his grandpa's help and he just made very clear that heny was not family any more it brake my heart in different ways even though he let him took what he needed but he was willing to let him go all by himself to fight the biggest darkness tge black fairy... I wish the writers tried a little bit harder to keep rumple caring for henry he was the nearest thing he has to his beloved son... Baè deserved better than this and Henry deserved better also 💔💔💔
😭😭😭😭😭😭 I continue crying with this scene. Here really Rumple broke completely. This should be the first time where Rumple is so powerful but he can' t do nothing 😢
and I have 3 disney songs for them A Goofy Movie:Noboby Else but You Aladdin and the King of Thieves:Father and Son disney Descendants 3 : Do What You Gotta Do
When he whispered to Rumple; "Let go." I started crying like a baby. Rumple let him go once when he fell through the portal and once again he lets him go, but only because Neal/Bae told him to. This time he is losing him for real :'( He can't undo it and there is no way to fix it. This is a solid proof that magic does come with consequences and price, after all.
Hate Captain Swan shipping. SO. MUCH. There is just NO chemistry between them, which makes me hate the fact that Neal DIED for the sake of captain swan shipping. There is literally no other reason to kill Neal/ Bae.
Even sadder than I remember! poor Bae sacrificed on the alter of Capt Swan! poor Rumple and Henry! Please bring him back instead of The one handed wonder Emma or both!
Why can't Neal come back. he shouldn't of died I don't get how he died though. I cried when I first watched this eposoide last year. he was my favorite character on the show I wish Henry could of seen his Dad again.
Emma shouldn't have the right to say she loved Neal. I can't bet it wasn't even a whole week after he died that Zelena died too. Meaning she didn't wait a whole week until kissing Hook. Even if she could never forgive Neal for what he did, she should have still at least respected their relationship and waited a week. Even two or more, for Henry's sake, before going out with Hook. Sorry, but she's a big bitch for doing that. No matter what happened in the past.
Then here is as Emma had said to Henry to 1x09 neal was a young firefighter and emma a young waitress in a restaurant and bar and neal regularly frequented the restaurant and later he asked her to go out with him and she agreed and they went to an amusement park or Neal Tells him about his childhood (like to 3x22) And in a gaming stand, neal wins a dream catcher and emma wins a key ring, And later they make a weekend in a motel and neal offers holiday to emma. (Or she chose Tallahassee) and 1 week later, Neal finds out that Emma is wanted for stealing watches in the city of Phoenix and advises him to go to the police and she agrees to go to the police for love of neal and he decides of retrieve the watches . and a month later (While Emma is in prison) Neal recovers the watches And meet August And he speaks to him of emma and Neal Decides to go see the chief of fireman And to tell emma that he died saving a family from a fire,And decides to give a letter of love for emma to auguste And give her if she discovers the truth about magic or if the curse is broken,And when emma leaves prison she goes to see the fire chief and suspects that neal is always alive.
