The Canoptek Spyder is a must have when fighting a psychic army. They saved my butt against chaos demons and grey knights. Also they are technically vehicles so they are able to do the tank shock stratagem fairly effectively with their S8 melee
@@es83stevenson88 18W at T7? thats still way easier to kill than most vehicles. Granted they have a 6+++ FNP but it doesnt mean much without higher T or an invulnerable save.
@@Khobai With how Reanimation Protocol works, 2 big models in a unit is quite durable. If you kill one, and take a wound from the other, and then it recover 4 wounds in the next turn, you are back to 2 models again. A Stratagem(which can be used when you lose a model), Technomancer and Canoptek Reanimators(enhance the effect of RP) can all quickly repair such damage. The potential is something like up to 16 wounds recovered. With 3 models, you could basically "almost lose them all", and be back to 3 models with some good rolls in one turn.
Minor correction: The Royal Warden does not go into competition with the Cryptek, he goes together with one of them, as he counts as a Noble, meaning cryptek can either be a subleader under a Noble OR a Royal Warden, not instead of one.
I meant for a very cheap low investment character for a less crucial squad (e.g. vs a Chronomancer) but yeah totally can have both a warden and a cryptek :)
@@auspextactics oki, just wanted to make sure. I think he can make a potential decent cheap combo with the plasmancer, for a unit of warriors. As the other guy also wrote under my comment 😊
If you want to use catacomb command barge, you need the 4+ FNP from relic. Tried 2 games without it and it is a nightmare to keep it alive long enough to be useful. With 4+FNP it becomes more interesting and a nice punchy unit in melee.
Think you might have to re look at the Seraptek Heavy. Its damage output with double blast weapons and dev wounds is crazy, loads of buffs like techno with the coronal, a reanimator,, spyder, oh and tank shock stratagem for giggles Nice video overall bud 👍
Oh let me tell you, that Doomscythe has done me very well in most games. The heavy death ray is mad with sustained hits D3, AP-4 and damage D3+3. It just tears chunks out of stuff and my opponents have struggled to deal with it.
So, the lockhust lord can join a 3 man heavy destroyer unit. 36 shots at s6 ap 1 d 1 with sustained hits 1, hitting on 2's critting on 5s. Then give him the Veil Of darkness. A 240 points death squad that packs a punch.
@@zissoulander to what end? you wont be able to kill any of the high toughness vehicles or monsters that comprise the meta. buffing warriors and immortals with better shooting is a total waste of points because its not giving you the type of shooting you need which is shooting that kills T10+ vehicles/monsters. youre better off spending the points on more LHDs and DDAs.
Seraptek should be rated much higher when taking into account the synergies and strats you can use. Technomancer with coronal gives it +1 to hit and an extra D3 wounds recovered per turn, with a reanimator nearby that's 3D3, and with a spyder nearby it's got a 6+ FNP. On top of that, the full wounds reroll strat makes the singularity generators good against everything. Even without added hits from blast you're averaging 16 MW plus whatever else happens to go through. It may be expensive but Knights are still performing well at the same cost, and this thing is definitely the equal to a knight.
Great Video. Agree with almost everything you said. I only have 3 things. 1. I think the Ophydians should be a little higher, the ability to deepstrike multiple times is amazing and is great for secondaries. 2. In my lists, ive been putting thr hexmark in the ghost ark to get around having a 10 man warrior tax then immediatly getting him out, still get the great value, but without the tax. 3. Thr Chronomancer move shoot move does not work on lychguard as they do not have a gun, which is sad, so I would rate him a little lower imo. Hut great video, I am interested to see what new models the Necrons will get when the codex drops. Im hopping for new c'tan models.
Ive had good sucess with the Night Scyth since you now can disembark after movement. There's no longer a restriction for Aircraft doing actions so you can easily get them to fly into an opponents deployment and do so.
Think Ophydians could be up a tier. They're not super cheap and obviously you're not taking them for the damage anymore but the ability to jump back into deep strike at the end of opponents turn is great for secondary play
I'd love to agree, I think Ophydians are a bit better than the teir they were put in too. But not when they're 110 points. If they were 80-90, yes, but 110 is too expensive for what you'd actually use them for. At least in my opinion, because I've tried to fit them into so many lists, and they're always too expensive and get cut so I can run better things.
@joshuajacobs4960 That's fair. Like I said, I want to agree, I felt they were a bit better than the rest of Teir 4. But when you compare them to the other units in teir 3, I can see why it would harder to justify their place. I'd at least argue if they're still 110 points, then they can be at the top of Teir 4. Because they do have a unique and useful role. But, they die by comparison when looking at what's in Teir 3. That's the way I see it, at least.
So far one of my favorite combinations, admittedly in only two games, is putting the Chronomancer with Immortals shooting and ducking back into cover. In one game I definitely got stuck without sticky objectives so I just couldn't get any of my units to where they needed to be without losing objectives. Poor planning on my part but it was rough. It has me considering Trazyn even though he's not good. Run him around the back field and maybe he's served his purpose?
I didnt hear any mention of using orikan with lychguard (correct me if im wrong), but you can take the warscythes if you want since he will supply the 4+ invuln! For the leading unit i would suggest a lord with just a res orb if needing to save points and get an extra inch of movement, and being able to ignore battleshock means this unit will always be viable. Give the teleporting enhancement incase you end up wiping the unit trying to fight you for the objective or want to get more value out of combat elsewhere or if you really want to double down you can grab the hyper material ablator and just be unmoving.
This is a hill im going to die on, the Triarch Stalker is a sleeper unit in 10th. Nothing like turning off cover, which is everywhere in 10th edition btw, and having Lokhusts completely blow them out of the rubble.
I agree, I have 2 and field them as support for my gunline units. Better in 9th when they granted +1 to hit but removing cover is useful with the lower base BS in 10th. Also give crons some unique weapon options such as the melta/flamer utility of the heat ray and their melee is passable.
Ive been work-shopping a list that has the Convergence of Dominion as a back line screen since fortifications are actual units in 10th so far. They deploy up to 12" apart, so it covers a decent area, and buffs the deployment obj units like a doomsday ark to play around in. Its a little over priced, but with how teleporty some armies are, i think the deepstrike coverage alone makes up for some of the point cost.
@@DaneInTheUS You could, but youre looking at roughly the same point cost to cover the same amount of area though. And youd trade the reanimation buff aura for a unit that has no utility unless they are in engagement with units. Which if using as a screen, defeats its primary purpose.
The only correction I have is that you mentioned regular Lokhust Destroyers are 40 points vs the Heavy's 45-- they're 30. 3 standard Lokhusts vs 2 Heavies in a squad.
@@musicalcharge no lol. Desolation marines will easily wipe out a fully buffed warrior squad. a single desolation marine squad with bolter discipline gets something like 80 attacks against a 20-man warrior unit (20 base attacks, +40 attacks from blast, and another 20 or so from sustained hits 1 on 5+ crit in devastator doctrine). Combine that with oath of moment and your warriors are not surviving that. Doesnt matter if you use the resurrection strategem, have cryptothralls, have a technomancer, and a ghost ark. Your warriors are straight up DEAD. You obviously have not experienced desolation squad nonsense.
@@musicalcharge you stack 47 wounds on a fully buffed up warrior unit and tell me how well it survives. If it has a technomancer, maybe. If it has orikan, the usual choice, then you have very little chance
@@Khobai assuming the Desolation squad didn't move, oath of moment and devastator doctrine, you've got 60 base attacks, 20 crit (40 hits so far), 20 hit (60), 20 miss, reroll 20, misses and crits average out, now you have your 80 hits. Wounding on 4s, averaging 60 successes after rerolls. No AP, so slow roll first for the cryptothralls 3+ armor save, counting them as having 8 wounds with the 4+++, that's 16 successful saves and 8 failed saves, 44 wounds left, on a 4+, ok, warriors are wiped on average after failing 22 saves, but characters survive. With technomancer, they shrug on average 7 wounds and survive, not difficult to reanimate 13 warriors. Lesson is, take a technomancer, leave Orikan with lychguard with scythes. So, marines spent 340 points trying to kill 240 points, and shot their load of devastator doctrine, and failed. Could your opponent go on to continue shooting and wipe the unit? Probably. But that's a ton of dedicated shooting to take out chaff.
@@musicalcharge you forgot the +1 to hit from the incursors and a number of other buffs. marines also dont just have one unit of desolation marines either they have whirlwinds too which can finish off any unit the desolation squad doesnt kill. your warriors are 100% dead against any half-competent marine player. They will focus on wiping out at least one of your units each turn with oath of moment. necrons just arnt very good against imperial knights, eldar or marines.
Agree with most of it, pretty solid tierlist. My two cents on it: Tier 5 - Agree, all dog. Tier 4 - Seraptek and T Ark go up a tier to Usable. Seraptek in particular does a lot of damage, if quite, quite pricey. Tier 3 - Imotekh, Deathmarks and Command Barge go up to Tier 2. Imotekh CP generation actually matters a lot vs Vect effects, even if he's kind of middling otherwise. Tier 2 - Royal Warden down a tier, he's competing with too many characters and while his buffs are not bad and he's cheap, he's not offering a lot. Regular lord gets to stay here because cheap ressurection Orb, his other abilities don't matter. Tier 1 - Chronomancer down to tier 2. They're strong, but just a -1 to hit isn't as big a deal as the 5+++ imo, tho the battlefocus move is really good with immortals behind ruins. Technomancers reign supreme this edition for competitive so far.
Attrition Combat it is with the Lychguard. 10 Lychguard + Chronomancer and Imothek. Got charged by 4 Kastel+Techpriest and after 3 Rounds all Robots + Priest are DED and 1 Lychguard is missing. Dunno how much i put back up but it must have been 8+
Transcendent C'Tan is definitely an intentional decision by GW. The fact that it lacks Reanimation Protocols is a dead giveaway that they were attempting to balance it around that ability.
Might I also recommend Oriken with the lychguard Scythes? They effectively get a Chronomancer with the invul save and a bunch more damage from the scythes
Great list. As a dedicated necron player, this list is pretty much dead on. Only slight disagreement out of this whole index in my testing/playing has been that I might swap the Canoptek Doomstalker into tier 1 and the LHDs into tier 2. Guns in the LHDs are indeed VERY nice, but boy do they ever die to a stiff breeze. No way to get them any kind of invuln or protection, plus the got alot slower & fly kind of sucks now. They have some of the best guns that I almost never get to use, haha. Doomstalker on the other hand always seems to stick around and has been putting in WORK for me
I think all the necron heavies belong in tier 2 to be honest. none of them are great compared to the heavies other factions get. tier 2 doesnt necessarily mean theyre bad, they still do their job well, but tier 1 basically means a unit is among the best units in the game and I dont think any of the necron heavies are that good.
I dunno, I run and enjoy both. The LHD has a much smaller profile and is way cheaper, plus does 6 damage every time they hit. I know there's greater potential with the Doomstalker, but they seem more like anti-infantry/elite to me. I had these two tag team a Redemptor Dreadnought in my last game, and while the DS helped, the damage was really done by the LHD. And it was only one model. I see LHD as a dedicated anti-tank, whereas the DS is versatile but really meant for Terminator to Intercessor equivalents.
@Khobai you're certainly not wrong there, haha. Heavies aren't really our thing. I think auspex is ranking them internally though...against each other/the rest of the necron index, not vs the whole field. And in that respect, I still feel the doomstalker has been hanging around longer to do more damage overall than the Lokhust Heavies
@joelkurowski7129 the LHDs are only cheaper per individual model though, for a squad of 3 you're paying more than a doomstalker. And yeah, don't get me wrong, their guns are EXCELLENT. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying for the points they don't survive nearly as long. Some of this is also probably because my playgroup/LGS knows how dangerous they are even from last edition and targets them down first, lol. But even with their big gauss destructors, that's only one shot. Big strength and damage, but if that one shot misses or they make that one invuln save....wha whaaaa. Whereas the doomstalker has been awesome for me with that d6+1 with blast (and also with big strength and AP). But the big reason I'm high on the doomstalker is the 12 wounds and the invuln. If there was ANY way to get an invuln or even a FNP on LHDs, I'd be back to preferring those in a heartbeat
Not sure if its been mentioned, but the Ghost Ark doesnt need a small unit. You can transport a Hexmark, Technomancer, or Illuminor (or any solo character)
@@auspextactics Exactly. I don't like the warden like P40K mentioned because it doesn't really do anything on its own once it leaves. Just a few pot shots but it's in the open for a free assassination objective
@@DigitalSniper45 yeh i agree with your point, was more so agreeing that any character could really, and if your short on points a RW, but ideally a hexmark with lone operative
If you have LHD´s, Lychguard, Hexmark Destroyer, Cryptothralls with a technomancer, Reanimator and maybe a DDA you got some punchy tankiness.But honestl, there are so many good units now its crazy. Monolith against certain armies or Illuminor depending on your lists are awesome too.Its a good time to be a Dead Space Robot.
I will say a lot of people keep nocking on the royal warden giving heavy, but people need to remember there are going to be other detachments so if we play anything outside the current one we will not be getting +1 from having a leader.
Nice summary again, I heard a the days that Orikan leading (gives 4+ feel no pain) Lychguards with their Warscythes (2A WS3+ S8 AP-3 D2 plus devastating) is quite brutal. What are guys thinking of this? I am building and painting these days Lychguards and thought of rebuild and repaint them ^^
Yeah I am running something similar. I got orikan for 4+ invulnerable nemesor zandkha for the random upgrades and varguard obryon for strike first. And cryptothralls for some extra wounds with 4+ feel no pain . Getting sustained hits on war scythe and strike first is amazing. Also just using a regular overlord works too ( got too lose varguard) getting 1 free stratagem is amazing
@@dinoden3006 varguard does not have the noble key word so does not count as a leader. He is odd as he doesn't have the leader key word meaning he can ONLY join a unit if it has nemesor as well . So as far as I know he can join just like cryptothralls.But this may get changed in the future
@@es83stevenson88 he has the leader core key word so very much does count as a leader, he just not a noble. This just means he can't have a crypteck if he is leading a unit, however he is very much a leader.
Heavy Lokhust Destroyers are absolute champs. I also think a lot of ppl are undervaluing warscythe lychguard at the moment. Sword & board are great for pure attrition & sure the warscythes don't have the invulnerable 4+ save but if you attach a technomancer with cryptothralls then that more than makes up for it. You can just send them straight into an enemy formation and watch them shred it to bits, retaliate upon melee death via cryptothrall unit ability, and then stand right back up on RP.
I would say Psychonmancer should be T5 and Trazyn T4, yeah he is maybe not so amazing in dmg output but he is the only model that can give sticky objectives in whole necron army and has noble, so you can add him to lychguard (and still attach cryptek) for very tanky sticky objectives lychguard, though I admit his possession rule is not good, but he is certainly better than psychomancer
Maybe a fully supported large Immortals squad could be fun for casual play. Something like the max amount of them you can take with Anrakyr AND a Plasmancer, as well as a reanimator nearby. It sounds nasty to me, if a bit vulnerable
If you have a character with a resurrection orb and also has sovereign coronal as its enhancement with a Reanimator nearby wouldn’t that mean that during yours and the enemy’s command phase any unit within 6” of your character with the orb get to do a Reanimation protocol with 2 d3
One shocking discovery i made recently, scroling through the datasheets are the Tomb Blades nobody mentions. Their Particle beamer BLAST, DEVASTATING WOUNDS D6 shots , hits on 2+ S6 with 1dmg. Just imagine having a full 6 man squad of these speed freaks, equipped with that gun. And have them shoot in a 20 man unit. The heil of dice you would get is hilarious! You would clear half the unit with MW before anything else. xD I will definitely test them in my next game.
It's nice but people use Tesla on them because the Assault on the gun allows you to advance and perform actions as they're great for it with their mobility
I think the Spyders are becoming a staple, at least 1 of them per list. Seeing what Thousand sons, Eldars and Grey Knights are doing, i want my 4+ FNP vs psychic attacks. All. The. Time.
Hard to keep the spyder safe and in position though. If he's moving up with the army he realistically needs obscuring terrain because he's squishy. Not always easy. If he's staying put he might protect some of the backline but the main thrust of the army will leave him behind.
I think the Deceiver is better than tier 3. Stealth is one of the best key words atm. I've had a lot of success with it, soaking up a lot of enemy shots. Precision shooting is very strong also
I’d rank them very similarly, and have been surprised so many lists aren’t using many of the units you’ve ranked highly (like the C’tan)…as they’re very good and difficult to take down for many build lists. They’re also fun units to play…simply piling up units to sit on objectives, shoot and do rolls to reanimate models and wounds feels like some of the same boring games I’ve played in previous editions of 40k when players were stacking space marine units with big shooting lines and just sitting in cover and shooting for the first 4 turns. It takes a lot of the fun out of the game.
only one I don't agree is the Seraptek. It shoots and fights VERY well, and I know it's pricy, but with support it can be buffed and be way tankier and stronger (technomancer and reanimator for healing, Silent king for rerolls, spyder for FNP, and the Sovereign coronal for +1 to hit). I'd put it in a T3 or even T2
I think you've overlooked the fact that on average a 10 man squad of triarch praetorians will deal out 5mw per turn with the pistol, plus the standard damage. I think they might actually make a decent shock attack unit, although I do agree, they're pretty pricey for what they do
Im really excited to pick up quite a few models I neglected in 9th. Im out picking up a hexmark destroy as write this. For now Im bolstering up my army preparing for that codex
IMO the Skorpekh Lord coudl be T2. It's ranged is decent and melee is quite nasty. On top of lethal hits, the crimson harvest ability gets you free motal wounds on a charge.
There’s a typo in the necron index as the transcendent ctan is missing the reanimation protocols keyword so doesn’t regenerate. Clearly a typo as it’s had living metal For this reason I probably won’t run it until they put out an faq either fixing it (hopefully) or confirming it’s intentional???
@@DaneInTheUS if you take Obyron, you can't take a Cryptek. If you take a Cryptek, you don't NEED to fight first. You get durability buffs and cryptothralls. The thralls can tank the damage, and even if some lychguard die, just pop undying legions with a reanimator nearby and they're likely almost all coming back.
They are very good. But warriors tend to be favored due to the fact that you can take big blobs of 20 making them way more efficent for character buffs. If genestealer keep theyr dominance and necrons become particularly good in the meta i could see people starting to favor blast weaponry, thus making the immortals a little more intresting
@@ettorevolterrani298920 Warriors aren't *that* much more efficient for receiving buffs than 10 Immortals, and you're paying 70% more points for the privilege.
@@ettorevolterrani2989 big blobs of 20 warriors are horrible. they die instantly to desolation squads. every desolation marine get +4 blast attacks for a total of +40 attacks. On top of the 23 or so base attacks they normally get. And then with sustained hits 1 on 5+ crit from bolter disciple thats like 20 more attacks. Your big blob of warriors isnt gonna survive 80 attacks with oath of moment... lmao. Indirect blast damage + oath of moment + sustained hits is laughably overpowered at the moment so any 20 size unit is just bad right now. They need to fix that garbage so horde units have a place in the game.
I would tlmake the doomstalkers tier 1. I put 3 of them in the back with a spyder for his 6++. They hit hard all across the board eliminating any true threat. The fact that it is 3 individuals means if one falls I still have plenty of fire power watching the while board
True he is nasty! And Tomb Blades are not as weak as he said too. Their beamers give you a bucket full a dice with MW in it too. Perfect to clear out a 20man blob somewhere on a home objective.
I think Necrons as an index rules wise is fair and fluffy, but i do believe they are severely undercosted. Lychguard and the Bucket Boys need a points bump.
Surprised the cryptothralls fight on death ability was not mentioned for use with lychguard? Or is that disputed that they give it to the unit. Nor the 4++ to the cryptek. Also you could use their shooting to activate the chronomancers move after shooting to reposition. Can't charge after but if your lychguard were at risk it might be worth it. Would be interesting to see if 5++ or - 1 to hit is better for lychguard.
Ophydians 4 -> 3 Yes theyre a bit expensive but the tunnelling horrors ability is a good bit of utility for scoring certain secondaries. SHC 4 -> 3 Its not competitive but its towering and it hits hard. Skorpekh destroyers 3 -> 4 They got super hard nerfed in this edition to the point where I would never consider taking them over lychguard. Strength 7 is basically useless, AP-2 is lacklustre compared to the -3/-4 they had last edition and their ability is pretty pointless. Deathmarks 3 -> 2 Great utility for the cost. Spyder - Pairs very nicely with some of our strongest units (eg DDA) and comes in absolutely clutch vs psychic heavy armies. If I was writing a list for a tournament I would definitely include one, a 6" bubble of 4+++ against psychic with the prevalence of armies like TS and Eldar is not to be sniffed at. Immortals 2 -> 3/4 Just no. Loss of range/AP and cost leaves basically no instance where I would take these over warriors and if I want them as a cheap small unit we have better options for that as well. Probably the single most disappointing unit in the whole army. Give them 2 wounds and we'll talk. Lokhust destroyers 2 -> 3 Purely because I refuse to spend that much money on a 20 year old sculpt. Scarabs 2 -> 4 Theyre fast but they cant do anything when they get there, if you need a screening unit use deathmarks, at least that way you can hold an objective or shoot if you need to. Szeras 2 -> 3 Priced out of tier 2 for me. He needs to come down a fair bit to be truly worth. Lord 2 -> 1 Very cheap res orb for when you need a leader for a warrior/lychguard squad but cant quite afford both an overlord and a cryptek.
Hi. I’m new to the hobby and I’m starting a necron army. What will the codex potentially change considering we already have the index? New units? Change in points? Thanks
Bruh the fact that its not unlikely for a necrons unit to have +1 to hit, +1 to wound, -1 to be hit, -1 to be wounded, +1 ap on guns, -1 ap on guns shooting them, then bringing back 2d3+1 wounds of models back per command phase, with a 4++, two cryptothralls with a 4+++ that can come back with reanimation protocols and also give fight on death to their whole unit is an absolute slog to get through, my god. Even if you win it feels like a loss
The tomb sentinel is better than that. It's really tanky for how cheap it is. Getting a cover save while being on an objective effectively makes it ignore 2 points of AP. It's pretty fast, can deepstrike, gives everything around it 4+++ against psychic attacks, and has a decent gun.
I very much disagree with Imotekh, Nemesor and Flayed Ones being tier 3. Those are at least tier two, they're the only units in our index with those abilities and they're very strong abilities. CP is priceless for Necrons, Nemesor can completely shutdown an opponents strongest stratagem, and Flayed Ones are infiltrators with decent combat and good durability.
Think a fun rule for trazyn would be that if he is killed by a weapon (including precision) he can resurrect. Means he is unsnipeable unless his NECRON unit is destroyed. Another fun rule would be for him to be able to lead a unit from another army as part of your army. Lets say a 100 point squad controlled by scarabs. Maybe give the unit a few keywords to make em fun, useable and not broken
I would like the Deceiver to have a rule where any unit wanting to fire at him takes a test, maybe based on moral, and if they fail then they are deceived into thinking the nearest friendly unit is the enemy and shoots at them instead.
The Heavy construct is a monster. I would disagree with you on it being lower tier. I'd probably put the Monolith a bit higher too but we'd have to see post Tacoma lists not using LHDs and this instead. The issue is that LHDs are just so cheap for what they can do.
It's funny how Necron playered cried for a whole week after their army spotlight while everyone told them to wait and see... Now they are one of the coolest army of 10th, which is also lore accurate and pretty balanced 🤷
>Monolith so high >Seraptek so low This is curious, every other tier list I've seen seems to flip these. I don't know any better as I have neither, what does everyone else think?
Are we allowed to rebase a Ctan on a 60mm? I’m redoing mine soon and he’s got a bigger plastic scythe with some plastic energy coils coming out of his back and the 40mm base isn’t stable enough 😮
