I liked to imagine that a younger Will Riker was every bit as ambitious and cunning as Ral and Shelby, but as he has risen through the ranks and particularly as he has served as Picard's first officer, Riker has seen that a man of ethics and balance can live a contented life, knowing that he acts in the best interests of those he cares about and not just for himself. The beard just takes it to the next level. Will Riker. Crewmates respect him. Women swoon for him. Furniture fears him.
Riker was a true giga-chad before anyone knew what that meant. Ended up with his woman & his own command & still retained a unbreakable bond with everyone he's ever served with cuz he commanded respect by showing it to others.
More like Jonathan's back feared the furniture. He sat a certain way for a reason. Picard could loosen up, go on away missions, and worry less about the crew because he had a Riker.
You've got to remember this guy is an empath. When he's needling Riker, he keeps up the pressure because he can feel that Riker is getting upset, he can feel that inner turmoil coming quick on the heels of his words. But sensing emotions isn't mind reading, and this is where Deanna's superior skill comes into play. People lampoon her for being too obvious, and she often is, don't get me wrong, the writing really suffers with her. But she doesn't make a bad play like this. Because sensing emotions doesn't mean you get to read minds. Yes Riker is upset at these words. But not because he's insecure. Not because he wishes he was captain, or is jealous, or quick to anger, or has a massive ego. He's upset because he genuinely liked the man in front of him who is now showing his true colors. He watched the guy in negotiations and grew to respect him, and then the man spat on that respect by trying such underhanded tricks as insulting him to gain an advantage, demonstrating conclusively that he doesn't respect Riker or care that Riker respects him. That's why he's so shocked at the end. He knows, Knows that Riker was getting upset. He doesn't understand how all that emotion just vanished into acceptance. He doesn't get what's happening, how it turned so fast. Because he read the emotion correctly, but failed to deduce it's cause.
Bro did a next level deep dive into the scene. Very insightful tho. I'm sure the writers thought of the same thing. Well written scene with great actors. Love the subtle nervous ticks going on with him as Riker destroys him. The subtle differences in breathing, posture, and ody language. Well acted and well written. Love this scene, thanks for the insight. Sounds like something the writers of the show/episode would have thought of.
I've always viewed it as A: command of his own ship is almost certainly going to be less fun/interesting/whatever-motivates-him than XO on the Enterprise, B: it's the damn Enterprise, and C: the crew. also the fact that if Picard leaves command he's much more likely to become the new captain than if he's a captain elsewhere.
It is one thing to be the aggressive subordinate. It is another to the THE person responsible. Riker can say bullshit about how he likes being where he is, but the truth of it is that he is afraid to be a captain.
weiserthanyou In any sort of real military organization, turning down a command when it's offered to you is career suicide. If you do it once, you will never be offered a command again
What Riker is showing is mature male behavior. He wants happiness for one he loves, without worrying about control or his own outcome. It's fantastic! And this scene is indeed one of my faves from the series.
This guest character was really well written - but the actor also did a great job - You really grow to despise this guy - which makes Riker's "burn" all the more satisfying.
Yeah, unlike Deanna who was written so bad. I am rewatching the entire run of tng and I have to admit that there are two characters that seem stupid: Deanna and Worf. Deanna just wanders around the others as a pretty face, while Worf is always trying to be a Klingon - which is basically unbelievable since he was raised by humans. It doesn't help that Klingons are generally just silly, BTW. I would add the Crushers to the list frankly, but both mother and son still represent interesting ideas that are simply not developed very well. Deanna has nothing outside her relationship with Riker, while Worf is a didascalic character for debating racism and diversity, which are recurring themes in Star Trek. Countless characters serve those themes; they are so many and well written that ultimately the show does not even need Worf.
@@alessandrozigliani2615 Honestly, Mirana Sirtis herself treats Deanna as having two different periods in TNG: when she was a pair of tits, and when they gave her her brains back.
@@alessandrozigliani2615 Worf is probably overcompensating for being raised by humans, just as Spock overcompensated for being only half-Vulcan. Both of them (but especially Worf) basically end up as idealized caricatures that are out of step with how most members of their races actually behave.
Yea she married worf. They really shipped them every now and then after that worf episode where h3 jumps from reality to reality and find one where she's his wife. To be honest I like it the way it ended
He chose to be second in command on **this** starship. That's what Ral doesn't get. It's not about being first or second in command, it's about being on the Enterprise. If Picard retired and Starfleet offered Riker command of the Enterprise, he'd have taken it in a heartbeat.
@@AdmiralKarelia The Enterprise is the most coveted assignment in Starfleet. It is the premiere Galaxy Class Starship in the fleet and it's mission is one of exploration, interspecies first contact, and diplomacy. Military defense lags substantially behind those priorities. That's why Riker prefers the 1st officer slot versus captain on any other starship.
Being the second in command on the flagship under a captain as great as picard is pretty prestigious in itself- plus, he's learning from the best, and he's seen enough to know that this is what he needs and wants
Matt McCoy was great in that role. And this conversation showed another dimension to the Riker persona that made me love him even more as a character. Jonathan Frakes often states he thinks he’s a terrible actor which is why he never did much acting after the show aside from the movies, but he doesn’t realize how wrong he is. He is a magnificent actor.
And he crushed some serious voice acting in "Gargoyles" alongside Marina Sirtis and Brent Spiner. His "David Xanatos" was a perfect villain/anti-hero, depending on the story. The showrunners loved TNG, and they used a lot of the cast as voices... and it totally worked! I think you're right on; he really doesn't give himself enough credit.
Frakes also has admitted he enjoys being behind the camera more then being in front of it. I do agree that he underrates himself, which is in part what makes him such a good actor. He isn't cocky, there is an old saying "you can't fill a cup that's already full." He didn't think he was a good actor so he was always striving to do better.
People may joke all the want re Riker, but this here, this and when he ordered to fire on the Borg cube that held Picard captive as Locutus, is the definition of bad ass and emotionally intelligent. I just love the writing here, and what a superb example of positive masculinity Riker is, along with almost every main male on Enterprise D.
@Apsoy Pike I dont think he is scared of being on his own. I think he wants the command of the Enterprise. Of course he cannot outright state that because he is loyal to Picard, but we saw he had no problems commanding another vessel or taking control when needed. Hell, on one episode where he was stuck on a planet with an alien imitating a false reality of everything he wished for, We saw he was the captain of the enterprise. In that reality Picard was an Admiral, Geordi had no visor, Worf and Data were promoted, he was married to Minuette (the perfect woman in his eyes) and had a child. I do agree him being naturally good at most things he never did is a bit annoying but thats a writing issue, not an inuniverse one. Personality wise he is no manchild. He is more mature than Kirk, and I really like Kirk. More loyal to Star Fleet code than Picard, who'm has violated no interference rule several times where'as Riker chose to abandon the confrontations outright when given the chance. Hell, the entire ''Tasha's daughter'' storyline is because of Picard being sentimental, Riker would have never allowed it.
@Apsoy Pike I don't think he is scared of having a command on his own. In that one episode where he temporarily took command of the Heatherway for a tactical exercise, he was so freaking prideful when seating in the Captain's chair. I tell you, he LOVES being in command. I simply think the reason why he declined so many promotions was that he valued his friendships and experiences he got to have on the Enterprise. Here he was on the flagship of the Federation with some of the best officers in Starfleet, always on the frontline of anything interesting happening, be it a hostile engagement, a first contact or discovery of a new world or new life under the command of one of the highest decorated and most experienced captains. Any other command would certainly have the upside of being his own but while he patrols some border somewhere, he would always know that the Enterprise is at some fascinating place right now, communicating with an entity beyond his imagination or solving a never-seen before crisis.
And it's not like Deanna really needed Riker's help. She figures out early on that Rahl is trying to manipulate her. There's no chance that she's going to fall in love. She knows that Rahl is a fling to her, like one of her chocolate sundaes.
I love this scene, and it's even better once you understand the context. Devinoni Ral (the man he's talking to here) is also able to read people's emotions, like Troi, and he still screws this up. Sometimes, it's just not enough to know what the other guy is feeling.
Don't forget that Riker is Canadian. Part of the reason we're all so polite up here is that being a prick will get you thrown out in the snow for the night. That wasn't a burn, that was frostbite.
+John Carr -- My mistake. In the TNG episode "Lower Decks" one member of the crew tells another that Riker is Canadian. Either that character was misinformed or Alaska was annexed by Canada sometime following the Third World War. As most governments collapsed during the Third World War, I prefer to believe the latter theory.
Odds are Riker flashed a little contempt, knowing he'd pick up on it. Remember, Short of data not really having any tails, Riker is the best poker player on the ship. It's my opinion, he played this guy like a ukulele.
The real screwed up part of this is the subtext. Riker says that he hopes Deanna will help Ral be a better man, but he knows her better than any other man (they share a connection that's beyond just a relationship). He know there is absolutely no way that Deanna won't see through the fake exterior of a weasel like Ral, so their relationship is doomed. Now Riker is too much of a man to throw that in his face, so instead he wishes him good luck. Ral is empathic, so he can read the combination of good humor and honesty coming from Riker. It's like someone giving you the kiss of death, and the actor wears it on his face really well.
@Ein Kunde It means get off the internet, go and touch some grass, do nothing. If you're leaving multiple replies to a reply to a comment on a youtube video of a clip of a tv show from 20 years ago you probably need to leave the internet alone. Maybe for a day. Maybe forever.
Riker and Aragorn are the perfect models of Positive Masculinity: Men who are every bit as strong and self-confident as any self-professed "Alpha Male", yet who champion empathy and compassion as a strength of character, rather than deploring it as some sort of binding chain of 'weakness'. Being able to take care of yourself is only half the battle - the real measure of a man comes from being receptive to the needs of others and ready to lend a hand to those who need it. "A strong man stands up for himself. A stronger man stands up for others..."
Picard would not be Picard without Riker. Each member of the team provides a foundation for the other even in a leadership way; just as Riker leads the Captain towards making the right decision.. through advice. He may be 2nd in Command, but he'll always be Number one :)
Riker's thing is he's the Ship's Dad and Deanna is the Ship's Mom. They handle all the interpersonal problems and keep an eye on all the crewmembers' well-being so Picard doesn't have to involve himself with them.
it is also the first officers duty to question the decisions of his Captain, to ensure the safety of ship and crew first, and adherence to the prime directive, and to the mission. Picard admires that about Riker. And that is one of many reasons why he's the best as 2nd in command. He's an extremely important cog in an entire machine, and without a doubt he's very well oiled. A true copper sprocket!
It's honestly depressing, Ive watched almost every new TV show that comes out and getting increasingly more frustrated with terrible writing, terrible dialogue and terrible acting. Just look at the new star trek. Why dont they make shows like this anymore?
This. To this day, I watch TNG almost every night as my "shut up tinnitus!" backing track so to speak and for one simple reason: It's one of the best series ever created.
There's something so great and effective with the ambience in these earlier Star Trek series. No longer musical cues or constant scores over everything, even dialogue, just the sounds like being on a ship or plane where the show gives the characters time to just talk, without any interruption or distraction.
These aren't "earlier" Star Trek series, these are the ONLY Star Trek series! Modern "Trek" is toxic waste, and the sound editing is intolerable dystopian horror soundtracks, I could never bear to watch anything like that. Star Trek is meant to be UTOPIAN, set on a ship you'd WANT to spend time on!
I didn't understand Riker's reaction when I was a teenager. I would've kicked Ral's ass for taking it there. 20+years later,I get it. I totally get it. Well played,Commander.
Riker is a master poker player. He reads people's tells before they even realize they have any tells. Riker is patient and studies the people around him, and especially his "opponent/rival" (a skill even further refined with tutelage from the greatly philosophical and reflective Picard). This guy was out of his depth from the first syllable with Riker!
I don't think it's ever seriously explored in the series but in the novels Riker is also proficient in aikido, a martial art which effectively specialises in turning an opponent's attacks against himself. Which is exactly what he does here (in a conversational sense).
@@jont8555 While the ship as probably sailed on any Netflix or Amazon or HBOMax series depicting some of the expanded Trek materials, I always felt Riker wasn't really given a lot of depth on STNG.
@@jont8555 While in real life Aikido is pretty poor for actual combat, its nature as a non-violent martial art fits very well with the Star Trek principles of humanism and diplomacy.
@@El3ctr0Lun4 Aikido is poor as a sole art, but its principles are a great boon to anyone. Don't stop the assault, redirect it elsewhere. Don't allow the momentum they built in the wrong direction go to waste, capitalize on it. It's not the only one, for sure, but it goes into the most depth on the subject. It's not a good first or second martial art to learn for self-defense, it's probably not even a good fifth one. But the theory can be employed far beyond actual combat.
"Ho ho! Didn't anyone tell you I was happy in the friend-zone? When you date a psychologist, they never stop analyzing you and they're twice as neurotic. I learned the hard way."
The greatest time to be a Trekker was when we had TNG on TV and TOS having big screen adventures AT THE SAME TIME. That era can never and will never be duplicated.
stargate .. stargate atlantis .. stargate on the space ship ... all were as good as or better ... and I am a trekkie to ... but stargate is more relatable because it is closer to our time than some fantasy in the distant future
I think Star Trek peaked in popularity in 1996 or 1997. You had both TOS and TNG in reruns, DS9 was in full-swing, the movies were box-office hits, there so many comics and books to dive into and Star Trek: The Experience debuted as a fantastic pseudo theme park for Trekkies. After 1998, especially with the incoming Star Wars prequels, Trek started to wane and only briefly recovered with the reboot.
@@kaboom-zf2bl As a diehard trekkie I must still admit Stargate was pretty good. The series made the blockbuster movie look like a cheap pilot. Something about military shows really rubs me wrong, but I'd still rate it above modern d/tdrek because it possesses a core of ethics and humor.
@@kaboom-zf2bl Too many ellipses, not enough critical thinking. The fact that you need a show to be closer to our time period to be relatable shows just how shallow your thinking is, along with your incessant use of ...ellipses.
I love how the empath dude is all like "You're second in command." When Riker had already been offered a promotion to captain in Season 2, but turned it down. The way he looks away acting like it's something that really bothers him, but is instead thinking "What is up with him?! _This_ guy's dating Deanna?" Then he mentions her name and Riker gets a bit worried wondering what the guy plans on doing with her. And the empath guy picks up on it, thinking Riker's worried about losing Deanna to him. Then Riker is like "Oh... He just keeps talking. Time to end this man's whole career."
The only drawbacks to that is you betray Starfleet and The Federation and end up getting killed by the Cardassians for joining a rebel group and you're never spoken of ever again and you're lucky if anybody even attends your funeral.
Probably just to show that Riker is a better man, to show he won and he lost, and to maybe see a glimpse of hope that he is a better man than what he was before
As a kid growing up to this show, Picard was my favorite character on this show, but as an adult rewatching this series, Riker has become my new favorite. When I was younger I didn't think he was interesting or complex at all, but now I see just how amazing he is.
Riker's feelings were more hurt, when Ral mentioned his career decisions, than his relationship with Deanna. His career has always been a soft spot for Riker.
Because he has doubts about whether he did the right thing staying second in command, and whether it's a sign of weakness, and his doubt makes him vulnerable there. It's a little too close to home. But he has no doubt about wanting Deanna to be happy, so that doesn't stick.
"His encounter with Ral had left Riker confident and enthusiastic; never had anyone so thoroughly owned an empathy before. That night, he turned sideways to enter a dozen doorways, and twice stepped-over every chairs upon which he sat. No one owned Riker."
Lloyd Braun is not crazy, if he says he's on the enterprise talking to riker - then he's on the enterprise talking to Riker. That's a perfectly sane thing to believe.
Gawd. Riker's last words are so savage. This is what real confidence looks like. It's based on a grasp of values; namely his love and respect for himself and those close to him.
2:41 When a man with empathic powers gets owned so hard normal people can read him equally well. Lol! He got knocked down so many pegs, the janitor forgot he had powers XD
tikletik One commercial in Canada for a TNG marathon went thusly. As captain(Picard) you call the shots. "Engage!" As a Commander(Riker) enjoy all the perks. -making out with different women- As a lieutenant(Worf) kick boatloads of ass.-Worf kicking ass- And as an Ensign(unnamed extra) have a console blow up in your face.
Behind the tailor of course. Garek was such a good character brilliantly played. Except for the parts where he has to be claustrophobic. Mostly because the actor was, so those scenes aren’t him acting. ;)
@@christinevanderschoot3372 Dukat was a constantly self-defeating idiot with idiot cartoon villain plans, however, that being said I LOVE the way he was portrayed by Marc Alaimo.
One of the greatest examples of positive masculinity on TV. And one that seems earned... and you believe that Riker won the fight by not entering it. Diana is his friend regardless of the past, or the future. That smile tells it all.
strontium, the OP's comment refers to Riker being more interested in Deanna's happiness than in "winning" her. It was the other guy that was erecting a pedestal. All Riker said was that she might be able to bring meaning to his empty life, which hardly makes her "beyond the reach of any mere mortal".
Daniel Cannata or, ya know, the nice guys are the douches that are manipulative, never hit, but constrict free thought and free choice, and those punks might be that way for reasons that you're not meant to know, only she is.
So here's what happened..Ryker felt the sting of the jab into his private feelings for Diana and then felt protective of her for the briefest moment until with a smile he realized that Diana was fully capable of taking care of herself and this dude. That's when he loved her even more and that's a love and respect that overrides Ryker's own insecurities. Beautiful.
I used to own Riker. I gave him one command. I said "From now on you shall sit down in chairs in an awkward manner." That was many years ago and he still follows that command to this day.
Clearly, you don't even realize how badly HE owned YOU, because his response was the Riker maneuver, which is the coolest way to be seated in all the Galaxy.
Frakes was always a bit uneven as a performer IMO but when he was on, dude was ON!! This moment, his owning of Jellico, and him showing Cmdr Shelby that he was the MAN are some of my favorite TNG moments!!
@@glennheth3472 I don't necessarily think Jellico was 100% correct. Yes, a commanding officer can rearrange things to suit him or her, but it shows a lack of tact, even in their heighted threat situation, to bully your way through it like Jellico did. You saw exactly how he was undermining the morale and effectiveness of the crew through his forced changes, even if it didn't end up jeopardizing the mission at large. So, within his rights? Sure. Not the sign of a good leader? I think so. I agree with Riker in the episode when he dressed Jellico down once he was free to do so.
Matt McCoy played the priest in one of the Christmas episodes of The Golden Girls about a month after "The Price" first aired. In 1997, he played the father of the main character in that TV movie about drunk driving many of us saw in school, The Accident: A Moment of Truth.
I love this scene because you can almost hear Picard in Riker’s rebuttle. Riker has watched Picard give countless speeches, and now he’s going to use all that observational knowledge to quietly shred a man at a table and walk away.
Nonaggress Watch Gargoyles. He plays a character named David Xanatos, who’s sort of a mix of Tony Stark, Bruce Wayne, and Lex Luthor in terms of wealth, charisma, and brilliance. One of Disney’s greatest villains.
This was such a fantastic scene, and Ryker absolutely put him in his place. My favorite wine was the dig at how he has no values. That is absolutely right, and what went through my mind, in part, as I watched this scene play out, was that the other guy is a Greek personification of the business mindset in the corporate world. Oh I know, it exists in government bureaucracy as well. This idea that it's okay try to prove what a big man you are by stepping on others, and making them feel, and if possible, even believe, that they are worthless and insignificant, just because you were willing to take risks, and they supposedly were not. It was just flawless. And the best part is, Tyker it's so confident and self-assured, that nothing the other dude says can shake him or upset him.
People are forgetting Riker is a very good Poker player. You can't call him bluff or break him, and when he does show hand, he makes sure that you lose big.
Nice turn of the coin, Riker. You get softened up by being insulted for being second in command, as if there's some world awareness you failed to impress, and lean entirely on how you care for Deanna and value her happiness more than losing her. I can only hope someone means that much to me to be so immune to the machinations of someone trying to tear me down. Love keeps you well in your place.
Oh this one that guy is a bajoran, they are bidding on what might be an stable wormhole. Too bad it wasn't it changes endpoints. A pair of Ferengi ended up in the gamma quadrant till Janeway found them.
0:58 You CAN'T be calling Ryker that, When his lead in command, Captain Jean-Luc Picard calls him #1 in the bridge. I am happy for the title of this post
I never really bought that Troi/Worf relationship. I mean, it was a less forced romance than Seven and Chakotay, but still any relationship starting during the last season somehow seems a bit unrealistic.
One aspect of this people overlook is that Ral did not know that Troi taught Riker her people's ability to communicate empathically as well as how to shield himself from it to a certain extent. So while Ral could sense Riker, Riker was able to mask some of himself from Ral and turn that conversation against him. That's why the actor portraying Ral had to look stunned, because he couldn't read Riker well enough to see that coming until Riker wanted him to. Of course you could chalk that up to Ral being only one-quarter Betezed as well.