Quark solves the problem of War with Economics 

i think it was more along the lines of that the war was causing his clientel to diminish at his bar

The brilliance of the Free Market is that it incentivizes even the "wrong" people to do the "right" thing.

@@DanWeeks ah if only this were true and the Free Market were real, if it were as godlike and powerful at forcing hands as it is claimed to be.

@@DanWeeks The free market can accomplish almost anything. But people are reluctant to use it because they misunderstand “free”. It does not mean no oversight, it means you give it a goal (make good behaviour profitable somehow, taxing bad behaviour is popular) and then you sit back and watch it bend to meet the demands and you don’t interfere. The means are left free, the end goal though needs to be provided.

War is bad for business unless you're Quark's cousin ...

True, but war is good for business

@@Iinvest2day true, the 34th rule of acquisition does state that war is good for business, but the 35th rule of acquisition states that peace is good for business.

"I play both sides. That way I always win."

“The Kardashians can’t be trusted.” -Quark

Huh, that's basically what's going on between palestine and israel

They can be trusted to be conniving and proud. Give them an empty box, in exchange for not bombarding their world.

I feel like starting several RU-vid accounts just to like this comment even more. I couldn’t help but hear the same thing 😅

Cardassians.

Mmmm....does it really matter? There is a certain level of mirrored traits. @@xkm-thebasetecchannel3823

someone send Kanye this video

A quote I once heard on a forum... "Facts don't care about your feelings until feelings don't care about your facts." It just seems really relevant to this particular discussion.

@@xLoLRaven Yo that's legendary. After this im gonna be quoting this like.. "A quote I once heard from a RU-vid comment on a dated TV show that once heard it on a forum"

@@ralek592 And the legend continues on!

Whiel to you it seems like a bother she is propably stating the obvious. Like she probably does not mean it that way.

"Do you propose to lecture me on logic?" 1 min. later... "I find this very confusing." Quark FTW!

There's a big difference between the Kardashians and the Cardassians. One is a hideous race of aliens seeking to conquer all they survey through fraud and deceit. The other is from Star Trek.

@@brandenmcgee5125 chefs kiss

In everyone's defense, nobody expects Space Satan Dukat

I scrolled down specifically for this comment, I was not disappointed

@@Dawid.Wu_ me too 👏

Don't forget the House of Quark!

Quark is a bit of a strange one of his kind. Not all Ferengis are like Quark

@@tek512 Well he did own a copy of "Vulcan Love Slave, Part II: The Revenge."

He's the bartender. He does whatever he wants and no one cares as long as it's legal.

A very good point, and notice that the greatest of each species in the Trek verse are those who do not reject nor blindly follow their race’s ways. Spock learned that logic is only the beginning of wisdom, Worf learned that a true warrior knows when to extend the hand of diplomacy, Picard was capable of sound judgement but never blinded by his own opinions, and Quark knew the the hyper-utilitarian philosophy of the ferengi could be used to answer far more than greed as evidenced by this scene. These characters embody what makes Star Trek so great, in a world where one side clings to the good of the past and the other yearns for the possibilities of the future, Picard’s beautiful statement cuts through the noise, ‘there should be room enough for both in this life’.

He never said it was a Full copy

The Rules of Acquisition are free for whoever wants to read them. Besides, you're missing the point. Quark was looking to sell his solution. The Rules of Acquisition was just enticement.

If she were to ask later he would say, "Here I'll give you THIS copy at a bargain price. Just two bars, at that it's a GIFT!"

@@KarlRoyale At this point in time a complete list of the Rules of Acquisition are freely possible to look up on all Federation databases. WE don't have that yet... Memory Alpha has all the ones that we know of...

Most likely he thinks it will benefit him in a long run.

"Peace sells, but who's buying?" - Dave Mustaine

This gives me a haunting reminder of when Russia asked to join NATO and we said no. Then we invited near every neighboring country to Russia wne we promised we wouldn't.

“The Kardashians can’t be trusted.” -Quark

A capitalist would see the war as an endless growing business with no limitation.

34th rule of acquisition: "War is good for business". 35th rule of acquisition: "Peace is good for business". Both of these statements are true, albeit in completely opposing ways. War is good for business, but only if you're an arms dealer. Peace is good for business, UNLESS you're an arms dealer. Quark once mused that his brother made a fortune enough to buy his own moon by selling weapons. So I'll bet whenever Quark hears that a shipment of weapons was intercepted, or that an arms dealer has been arrested or assassinated by the other side, it's at least a bit cathartic for him.

War is good for business in the short run. Peace is good for business in the long run.

@Thelondonbadger hasn't turned up in any history I've come across that wasn't written by a conspiracy theorist

@Thelondonbadger starting a racist rant on youtube comment sections, you must have a giant brain

Rule of acquisition #63, for every business there is an equal of opposite gender.

I think it's worth noting that war comes before peace

Vulcans are a sad people. So much of their philosophy is based on hypocrisy.

It's made clear very quickly that Vulcans aren't anywhere near as logical and unemotional as they like to pretend they are.

Vulcans love to pretend they aren't emotional but they're the biggest fucking drama queens in the galaxy.

@@robwalsh9843 The same was true of the Klingons and their supposed reverence for "honor", as we saw in TNG and DS9. Societies rarely live up to the ideals they espouse.

He was half Human afterall!

Oprah

Ira Steven Behr is a very talented writer.

Quark has a relative that owns a moon due to everyone having weapons.

0:54 Ehm - He was gonna GIVE her a copy.

Its data probably it cost nothing, she with the book could be a better customer and good customers are like latinum, hes getting latinum for nothing

You know I'd take a Ferengi any day over the people with the car warranty scam or the "we are about to sue you" scam.

I'm sure Armin Shimerman would be happy to hear that. IIRC one of the major reason that he took the role is that he played two Ferengi in TNG seasons 1&2 and was really up unhappy with how poorly the Ferengi were written there and Quark gave him an opportunity to correct that failure.

My work E-mail signature has the 58th Rule on it. A coworker who saw it said he's fond of the 99th.

@@benjaminshropshire2900 i would love to get the opportunity to tell him that one day

@@blackjac5000 not gonna lie had to look both of them up

well he didn't want to.....but she left him no choice

emotional yes. But not necessarily illogical. With the right starting premises, any conclusion can be proven logically. Including one's own superiority.

@@Sewblon Actually, superiority is entirely circumstantial. If you want to talk about momentary advantages then that is another story. Pride though is all about presentation, never about substance. Just because Vulcans have many advantages as a species doesn't mean they are superior in every situation. Diplomacy for instance requires empathy and the capacity to feel emotions at a larger spectrum, because one needs to understand the emotional state of those they are speaking with and to accommodate their perspectives. No one has ever convinced anyone of anything by being pigheaded other than they can't be reasoned with. From what I have seen of Vulcans they lack a lot of what makes a logical individual. The capacity to understand ones limitations and the willingness to embrace new ideas are some of the things that identify an intelligent and competent person. People who see facts aren't inherently logical, they are simply observing what is presented. That is a powerful tool in its own right, but without any kind of flexible thinking to interpret and to find different uses for it, there is very little that can be done with that knowledge. Logic is not what Vulcans actually believe in. They seek objectivity in everything they do, and that means a removal of the self. It means their individuality and identity, experiences and sensations, are all seen as distractions to the one truth. It is why Spock saw Data and compared them to being the Vulcan ideal. This all said, I am done with my essay. ;p Hope I wasn't coming off as a jerk.

@@beckaldo8741 Its true that pride is entirely circumstantial. But most of the things that people care about most of the time are entirely circumstantial. Truly universal truths like the law of identity do matter. But they are never the only thing that matters, at least, not as far as I know. The things that determine how tall you are. How smart you are, how many friends you have, and how long you live, and how many descendants you have, are largely a combination of biological, social, and economic accidents of circumstance, not universal laws like the quadratic formula, at least not directly. Its true that what Vulcan's actually value is objectivity, not logic. But what does that have to do with anything?

@@Sewblon Mostly cause I am an insufferable twat. Sorry. o.o

But at one point, he did.... But he screwed his cousin Galen over to get out of the biz.

Quark is more of a people person... and not a merchant of death

@@erichanastacio9695 yeah he find people are much cheeper to move around and you barely have to advertise

@@erichanastacio9695 less people means less customers

@@995cool ... which means your services are now at a premium.

Call it something like 'floating-point utilitarianism' and you'd have today's philosophers falling over themselves to endorse it.

DS9 also makes it clear that it *is* a philosophy, not some innate trait of their species. Like, it isnt inevitable that Ferengi will all behave this way, and their society can change.

@@seekingabsolution1907 And does change.

They have a lot of bad advice for anyone trying to maximize profits as I recall which leads to them constantly having to find new markets which aren't wise to them. If they were really a steel man argument you think they would have figured out how to manage their business better than our real world ones do.

@@Furluge I think a big part is recognizing that writers are not experts on all things they write about, especially fiction writers. To me it feels as if the _intent_ is to portray them as more or less sincerely caring about their philosophy and living productively by it. Of course, since they're all individuals, some care more than others, and some are just plainly more selfish and greedy than others, but there are greedy human space communists too.

They are indeed. Their strict controls over their emotions (except in situations like this one 😁) came about because, in their history, they were on the verge of wiping themselves out due to letting their emotions run wild.

one would say, they are a vulcan(o) of emotions :D ready to blow :D

Ponfarr night at the Vulcan nightclub is like the Pompeii volcano eruption except it isn't ashes

It’s like when you go after a woke person with facts n logic and they only way they can defend themselves is screaming at you.

This scene shows a potential weakness that ANY Vulcan can fall prey to: They spend so much mental energy reigning in their emotions that they run the risk of getting caught in the weeds and fail to completely analyze their situation. Notice her answer when Quark asks her how much she's willing to pay for peace? "Whatever it costs," is not an answer, it's an empty platitude better suited for a grandstanding politician than an experienced negotiator. A skilled negotiator always goes in with a goal in mind, concessions and peace offerings they're willing to hand over to keep parties engaged and build trust, and a firmly established line that they're not willing to cross because it would cost them too much in terms of leverage and bargaining power. She doesn't have any of those 3 tenants established in her head, so she's completely unprepared and willing to walk to into a potential negotiation blind and at a disadvantage for the sake of 'Peace." One could only guess how badly the Kardassians would've tried to fleece her and screw over the Federation colonists for the sake of her wish for 'peace.' Or, as Quark posits, she attacks the Kardassians and causes an intergalactic incident that leads to all out war that would cost multiple years and billions of lives before peace and rebuilding could ever begin. Neither outcome is at all logical.

he is what all ferengi could be but choose not to be

You know Quark?!

There are Four kinds of Ferengi you should fear The businessman who can school everyone else in their own fields of business but not himself The FCA Member who can find the slightest flaw in your business and manipulate it The Negus who can completely wipe your bloodline with just a few tosses of latinum And that one crazy bastard of a Ferengi who is more of a threat than Jem'hedar running low on Ketracel White

Damn that’s just facts

@@funkmantim2661 Quark, Brunt, Zek, and Leck.

hibbidyjibbidyy it is also illogical to choose a mate based on aesthetic value. Vulcan marriages are arranged anyway. I’ve always thought the way that they do vulcan’s and all other species makeup is very stupid in trek. They’re aliens they have different aesthetic values!

🤣🤣

@@tonoornottono They are bipedal humanoids. They would have similar values to humans, especially if they are mammals. The blue eye shadow I never considered makeup. I always assumed it was a tint in the skin. However it could be makeup. It might be a hold over from centuries past. Presenting yourself with hygienic confidence, and dignity has logic to it. It shows a self discipline, and care, which can translate to work ethic. Also Vulcans do have emotions. They can run deep, but they are there. Then consider it is a TV show. Every thing must be filtered through the rule of "what looks good on camera".

Dirus If make-up is a marker of discipline and work ethic, why do we never see male vulcans wearing makeup? Personally I just see it as the costume department not really seeing the point. Though obviously there were standards for how women should look on camera I think it’s sort of weird that a culture like that would have specific feminine or masculine rituals of dress.

She was on a Federation station doing business with a Ferengi male. Logic suggests that being conservatively dressed and appearing attractive would yield the best deal.

Oh I could hear a Romulan laughing their ass off on Romulus while I was in my jail cell on DS9.

Logical is to stand on the physical ideas and being material about everything compared to visual who can only be seen and not touched. That's why emotions are not illogical since it can be felt while art would be illogical since it's fake emotions as it's only an illustration of those feelings. Quark telling lies and ask the Vulcan to admit the lie to be true. No matter if the Vulcan tell they accept the lie they don't believe in the lie. The factory do not care what you produce.

“Logic is the beginning of wisdom not the end.” - Spock

Exactly. Logical argument proceeds from whatever premises the reasoner considers to be true. If those premises are faulty, the conclusions drawn will also be faulty, even if they're entirely logical.

Richard Jeni had a bit on syllogisms, where If A = B And B = C Then A = C: if God is love and love is blind then Ray Charles is God.

pragmatism always one ups logic

It's also advantageous for him to spread the rules around for two reasons: First, it means in future interactions they'll have a common language and jargon which facilitates business. Second, that common language is one he's been schooled in since birth, She may learn it, but he lives and breathes it. In any dealings that can be boiled down to trade jargon, he will have an innate advantage

I propose a counter argument, from what I remember, he wanted to have sex with her, so this him paving the road to sex with a gift.

Rule 59: Free advice is seldom cheap.

Rule 111 treat those in you debt like family exploit them

He might also be said to be purchasing an outcome he desires by paying for it with this information.

Pretty sure that's in the ferengi rules too

this shouod be rule of acquisition #2 which has, to my knowledge, never stated

I wish that more investors and would-be investors understood that. If you want to buy stocks, then you should want stock prices to go down. You should only want stock prices to go up, if you are looking to sell.

@@Sewblon or more accurately, you want prices to go up AFTER you buy and BEFORE you sell.

@@RichardX1 What you just said is true. But I was thinking more of that thing that Warren Buffet said that if you are a net buying of anything, including stocks, then you want lower prices. If you are a net seller of anything, including stocks, then you want prices to go up.

Or at least convince themselves that they are under control. One of the things I liked about Star Trek Enterprise, is it kind of reveals that vulcan emotionlessness is bit of a smoke and mirrors show. Under the surface most of them are utterly bubbling with emotions, with a huge amount of mental energy required to keep it under control so none of the other vulcans will know that they are struggling. But in reality, they are all struggling.

Ye, before Vulcan's embraced logic, the Vulcan probably would have just strangled Quark on the spot.

Discovery has revealed the insidious fashion in which some Vulcans channeled their hatred and violence.. .while claiming to be all about logic.

@@shayneoneill1506 I always found Tuvok from Voyager to be a good example of this. It was the first time since TOS that a Vulcan was a part of the Senior Officers and it showed that even a Vulcan can let their mask slip under adverse circumstances. Like that once episode where you hear Tuvok screaming from being tortured, then he acts like it wasn't a big deal. Absolutely chilling.

I remember hearing Spock claim (or reading him claim in a book) that Vulcans have no emotions. Keep in mind it's been years since I saw the show, so I might be misremembering. Assuming I recall right, it was still clearly Vulcan decorum, or applying what he'd learned (that denying your emotions helps you stay logical). On occasions when it comes up in private (like Spock with Kirk, or Tuvok in sickbay with the Doctor), the Vulcans readily admit they have emotions that run deep and possibly more intense than other races.

Tell that 2nd one to the Palestinians...

@BTG514 "The point of guerilla war is not to succeed, it's always been just to make the enemy bleed." - Immortal Technique.

@@BTG514this aged well

3. When it is convenient to confuse the hell out of your enemies.

@@BTG514 Except there is no war going on there; just one-sided genocide, perpetrated by the Israelis.

David Umstattd “he couldn’t find a glass of water if you threw him in a lake” quark, on rom. Quark was amazing at sick burns.

Dfg Sdfg all programmed to assist Rom in the futile search for the water.

Dfg Sdfg well admittedly rom makes no money, so he’s basically inherently evil... or something.

@@feartheghus Actually, he just invests heavily in resources more valuable than mere latium. His connections and experience alone are of mind boggling value.

Sara Danhoff but that’s not a tangible asset.

"I'm about to end this man's whole career."

~slaps the person next to me Watch This...

I wanted to thumbs up but even Satan approves of this guy (right now it has 666 likes)

*sigh* "Then I'll make it so simple that even a Vulcan can understand."

Thats a BOI moment right there

He also voiced guy who built an capitalist utopia and would rather drown it than let some conman take it over. Too bad his own ideas gave birth to that conman.

Shimerman also played one of the 1st Ferengis in the 1st ever ST epsisode that featured them on TNG!

Almost perfect - 0:54 He was gonna GIVE her a copy.

@@simonfrederiksen104 Yeah, and he was gonna give her a copy because that makes it easier to talk business. In the end it's all about business.

Best character in the series in my humble opinion .

How do you even pick the best characters in that series. There's way too many good ones. Crazy too that some of the best are more considered secondary characters like Quark and Garak.

How do you even pick the best characters in that series. There's way too many good ones. Crazy too that some of the best are more considered secondary characters like Quark and Garak.

Don't forget the old crone who is the bane of Kira's existence

Absolutely. I'm rewatching ds9 but primarily for the quark centered episodes. He steals the scenes he's in. The dynamic between him and Odo or Dax was ST DS9 at its best

@@Kos4Evr Wallace Shawn?

Perhaps one reason Vulcans sought first contact with new species, was in welcoming insight from different perspectives.

@@dougmillhoff9192 naw vulcans are just masochistic

then why did that seem to happen in pretty much every encounter vulcans had? seems their role was to posture as logical af while constantly being hilariously irrational 24/7

@@sharpnova2 FACT

@@sharpnova2 I think it's for Vulcans to learn firsthand the most real truth: Those who claim to have supreme knowledge often don't, and sound logic can come from the most unthinkable sources. Only by learning this first hand can they improve their own logic, reasoning, and understanding.

Humans can understand long term gain. Humans just prefer the short term gains and leave the fallout to those who have to pick up after them. Usually their kids.

@@darkjesterxiii facts. The problem is the people making decisions with long-reaching repercussions are perfectly well aware they’ll be long dead before those repercussions become relevant

@@darkjesterxiii I'd say it's a bit more complicated than that. It's not "humans as a whole" that prefer short term gains, rather it's that those humans who value short term gains have used that initial start up to keep the long term folks from affecting real change.

Well, human business men figure it won't hurt them because they own all the boats and own most of the food/land. They just don't care about everyone else because they've been raised in a culture that tells them that because they did real good at the money factory market they're innately better than those born poorer and or less business savvy than them. They're wrong of course you can be business savvy and a moron with no other useful skills but they don't let that stop them.

please precise whether youre talking about people irl or trekkian humans LOL

You better buy yourself some Latenum to display

Do they now call you the Synthehol King?

I'll take one crate of Aldebaran whiskey and another of Saurian brandy please.

Do you also sell Root Beer?

In fairness, Quark is an unusual Ferengi - a true philosopher of commerce. By the end of the series, his insights go vastly deeper than just making money. True, he started with the principles of business, but then delved and delved until he got to the fundamental elements of cause and effect at their foundation. And that's simply genius.

@@RobMacKendrick Well said. Couldn't agree more!

Yeah. Deep Space Nine was the most carefully thought out series. What would it really be like, life in a space station light years away from Earth, home, situated in a most desolate corner of space, unknown to most, living in constant terror of war? I sure would find life there poetic.

Not pacifism, remember that peace here depends on everyone at the table holding a gun, but realpolitik.

@@RobMacKendrick Honestly, that's how it can often go: People following a philosophy or religion or such but often only a small number actually get the point behind it.

Fun fact: Armin Shimerman played a Ferengi during their very first appearance on TNG, back when they were supposed to replace the Klingons. He's extremely ashamed of his performance and was worried that he ruined the entire species as a concept.

@@CaptainSpycrab Was only a distant, several times removed, cousin.

Kurt Snyder Not the one that owned a moon.

@@CaptainSpycrab Think THAT one was the one that sold him that spaceship that malfunctioned and took Quark, Rom and Nog back to the1950s American Southwest and were taken into custody by the US military.

Kurt Snyder I think he was also the one that shot the Vorta hostage during the episode with Iggy Pop.

Shimmerman used to host extra rehearsals at his residence with the other Ferengi actors and Chase Masterson. All the extra work he put in paid off.

"Oh and one more thing..." Great show I grew up with.

To the letter 😂😂😊

"give" ??? slip of character right there.

@@GerritDeSmedt If I remember, it was customary for the Ferengi to give copies of the Rules of Acquisition to anyone who wanted them. At first glance it seems like they would charge for it, but apparently it's like missionaries giving away bibles 😜

@@timchorzempa6637 “honestly these rules are so commonplace in our homeworld we leave them in nightstands at hotels and even at public restrooms. We lost the keys to the printing factory.”

almost like its her job or something

@@doomedbringer Not all actors are good at their job or capture the nuances required in a role. If it were easy, actors would make $10/hour

Except for the line about being confused. There was a time when Vulcans were following in Spock's shoes. The last one was featured in JJ Trek. Kirstie Alley did a better job than the bearded hipster of STD.

@@Rhythmicons But Ethan wasn't supposed to. He was explicitly playing a younger Spock, one who was still settling into himself. He wasn't playing the Spock of Kirk, but the Spock as Leonard Nimoy played him in "The Cage" who actually was more openly emotional (Nimoy played him that way since Pike was emotionally reserved, against Shatner's Kirk, who was emotional he contrasted with a stoic Spock). Ethan Peck did an excellent job. Looks weird without the beard though.

​@@3Rayfire Ethan, having not had the benefit of consultation with Nimoy, had to interpret the character his own way. There is a clear difference in people who have played Vulcans who have had the benefit of Nimoy's guidance vs those who have not. It is Nimoy's character after all. I have to disagree with you. Vulcans have a way about them that is in their culture that is different from their personality.

Quark biggest failure is that he didn't invest in war since it never gets old.

@@robertagren9360Rule of Acquisition 35: Peace is good for business

@@austinboylan5476 But his cousin owns a whole moon selling weapons. There's always another rule of counter one rule lol.

@@rushthezeppelin theres always an exception because inflexability is its own problem. the problem is knowing when to use the exception. i would say some of the more greedy faringi are examples of failing to read a situation and getting themselves into troublle.

@@austinboylan5476 Rule of Acquisition 34: War is good for business. Those Ferengi are the ultimate pragmatists.

He probably just wanted her to touch the book so he could harvest her DNA and replicate her in the holodeck.

Up until DS9, we had only really encountered a few Ferengi, most of them had been bandits and other questionable characters who had a little trouble cutting the mustard back on their homeworld. Here we get to meet several of them who actually have their shit together.

Wait you don't like the hissing, electric whip wielding weirdos of TNG?

@@warlockpaladin2261 they were not really bandits but captains serving the Ferengi Alliance, with their powerful ships that can challenge any Federation Startships

@@karamanid Yeah, but far away from the people back on Ferenginar that they had to report their profit statements to.

Armin Shimmerman used to bring the ferengi cast to His house to rehearse to bring the best ferengi performance

Only race in federation record that purchased the ability to travel at warp as well. Their history is amazingly free of bloodshed, choosing acquisition and trade over conflict early on. A positive spin on ultra capitalism, at least from what we’ve all seen.

War is bad for business for anyone that isn't an arms supplier anyway. Destroys infrastructure that other businesses could be using instead. Leaves people dead or being drafted into the military where they can't participate in the labor market which would drive up labor costs for everyone. Kills off potential customers which leaves you with less customers. So I could see the business oriented Ferengi trying to avoid war whenever possible for their bottom line if anything else and if you do decide to supply weapons of war sell them to someone else that is hopefully well away from Ferengi territory. The Ferengi obsession with their bottom line and profits has led to their own unique form of logic about things like that. Even them buying warp tech instead of developing it themselves makes sense from a business standpoint. Saved them the time and cost of doing the R&D themselves and then they only had to follow the blueprints they bought and it opens up the biggest potential new market there is outer space.

On the flip side, they'll sell to both sides to feed conflict. Team A needs weapons. Team B needs weapons. Both are buying, so sell, sell, sell. They are unscrupulous businessmen that I would never trust.

Selling to anyone that is buying is just good business though. Even selling to both sides. Historically weapons have been sold to both sides of a conflict by a neutral third party pretty often. Happens pretty often even now. Ferengi don't try to pretend they are something they are not. They are all about business and anyone that deals with them would know that. As long as you are getting the weapons you paid for then the Ferengi have filled their side of the deal. Ferengi are as close to a true neutral as you get. Only thing they care about is profit and they won't bullshit everyone and try to act all noble about it or virtue signal like the Federation. The Ferengi are not perfect but at the same time they don't try to act like they are either.

@@maiqtheliar789 it's logical or not, no unique forms.

💯

Nog's explanation of 'The Great Material Continuum' makes greed sound altruistic. Basically, greed is good, selfishness is not

@@TheKyrix82 Actually Nog's depiction of the great material continuum sounds a lot like Smithian economics. What Smith described as the invisible hand, Nog would recognize as the continuum moving goods from where they are to where they're needed.

Its a shit econonic philosophy, idk how anyone could support it while there's post scarcity economics that feature no monetary means. Like how regressive can you be? Simple minds though we have, your own cultural and personal bias is of courde reflecting defrnse for something that was be so obsolete its laughable. this shows more advanced then it even seems.

@Brandon Bee What the *fuck* are you on about?

Quark was more popular than Garak. Garak never made an appearance on Regis & Kathy Lee.

Quark is Fred Flinstone with brains: always scheming to make easy money, but quark was no fool.

There was an episode of Voyager where two Ferengi posed as prophets and taught the rules of acquisition as tenets of faith.

They could have been interesting if the show wasn't so keen to set them up as jokes.

wight1984 I agree. They had potential to be more than comic relief.

The Ferengi rules of Acquisition is every Capitalists most inner thoughts, of course it's a true philosophy.

The Ferengi rules of Acquisition is every Capitalists most inner thoughts, of course it's a true philosophy.

Rune of Acquisition #76: Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies. Rule of Acquisition #35. Peace is good for business

Skeptical Chris Rule of Acquisition #34. "War is good for business." memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Ferengi_Rules_of_Acquisition

Michael Sykes That may be so, but Rule of Acquisition #125 states "You can't make a deal if you're dead."

Skeptical Chris "Only a fool passes up a business opportunity."

that's not a rule of acquisition

He recognized the power of appealing to people's self-interest.

He was such an interesting character, because even in the pilot, Quark thought he wouldn't be welcomed and was ready to go. But he could tell he actually cared when Benjamin asked him to stay, because he saw the value he was to the greater community. And it felt like to me, that although he held on to his values as a Ferengi, being exposed to other cultures he also learned to see things in a bigger picture. And you can really see that when Nog decides to attend Starfleet Academy. Because even Nog saw a bigger picture, be like his father, or learn to bring each culture together.

@@RKingis Nog was the best part of DS9 to me. His character arc was awesome. From young troublemaker to badass Lieutenant

I had something to add but motherfucking 99 red balloons started playing in German over the loud speaker. Now my mind is absolutely scattered.

@bearjew trade schools are where its at i went for welding im 34 now im retired i drink and get stoned all day everyday i have a house that i love 2 vehicles that i love and i never got married so they cant golddig me i am a happy man

@bearjew the thing that helps is i didnt get into HUGE debt learning bullshit at college trade school was waaaaay cheaper and the stuff you learn is strictly related to the shit you go there for and you learn from people that fuckin work in that field we had a couple of older mechanics late 60s old old guys and you would be amazed at the shit those grease wizards would build

yeah and liberals are hating that right now. look at their reaction to all the possible wars we arent getting immersed in. theyre full of hate no matter what happens.

@bearjew you could do it its quicker than college depending on what you go for

@Pro Tengu but logic does allow one to sort out the possibilities and make an educated decision based off of knowledge of the situation/problem which is the basis of all understanding, the ability to infer based off of data has allowed humanity to figure out combustion, flight, penicillin, etc. logic may not be THE most important tool humanity has at its disposal but it is definitely up there in terms of importance

It only seems selfish at first glance, but in reality it’s just prizing efficiency, ie, maximizing output while minimizing input.

A slight quibble with your wording, the 3rd rule says to never spend more for an acquisition than you have to, but nothing about maximizing personal benefits. Maximizing anything in the real world is usually a trap.

@@mycroft64089 true but his talk about maximizing is indeed self appointed. Where as peace is logical when it is logical and war is logical when it is logical.

Momentary peace is good for business when understanding the logical tolls of more war to aquire peace just makes it more expensive. When you can have peace and build yourself more until either you or someone else has an advantage

Absolutely!

I have to agree. Without those two, you have these overly high minded and lofty debates, or some dire Sci-Fi circumstance, with the Ferengi, the storyline suddenly becomes relevant to the petty and greedy society we are all familiar with.

5610winston And she is turned on too.

@@Tigerman1138 yup!

@@Tigerman1138 I mean, she is a Vulkin, logic from another Vulkin is par for the course, but being out-logic by someone from another species? Hot.

Dustin Eward Not counting Pom-phar, of course, when even a gentle breeze on her skin would make her horny as a wildcat.

"peace with the cardassians". "in the long run". pick one

Quark and Kanye learned the Rules of Acquisition fast. Rule #40: "She can touch your lobes but never your latinum."

Lol.

Apparently they are called Cardassians or something like that but damn does it sound like they said the infamous family.

We see this alot. normally we call this "thinking yourself into a problem" or "overthinking." The lies and justifications she had to go through created a blind spot in the form of emotional investment. It's like when people live a lie, they get so invested in the lie. It's pretty easy to tear it down, the longer it goes, but that also means that person is that invested in it. If this was anyone other than a vulcan, she would have ripped him apart.

Quark & Garak, allowed the writers to introduce ideas into the story that in many cases, were antithetical to the philosophy of the Federation. Armin Shimerman as Quark, brought a lot of depth to the Ferengi & Andrew Robinson's portrayal of Garak was outstanding. He blended mystery, danger and charm into a great character and delivered some of the best moments of DS9.

​@edgarortiz7136 Not just Garak. You're forgetting Dukat. Dukat was one of the most interesting villains Star Trek has seen. Conflicted. Egotistical. Tyrannical. Cruel and evil. But somehow he was 100% convinced he was the good guy in the story. It made him fascinating to watch, and Marc Alaimo was THE guy needed to pull off such a character.

I watched DS9 in my teens and the characters of Quark and Garak helped me see nuance in things. I used to believe communism was the answer (like most teens do). But after this show, I started looking into economic and political philosophies and changed my outlook a great deal.

They wasted Q FFS

Call it the "Leonard Nimoy Method," lol. He had a problem with playing Spock in the 60's at first because he wasn't sure how to play a character "without emotions." BUT obviously figured it out over the course of the the original Star Trek series and subsequent movies. It all comes from him.

@@kapnerad At the end of the day, it's not that they don't experience any emotion, it's that they're incredibly good at suppressing them.

@@KyokujiFGC I was going to post the same thing; she's not conveying emotions without expressions, she's acting out someone who has emotions but conceals them showing cracks in that mask.

For real, she absolutely nailed it!

The actress has a RU-vid channel I think. Pay her the compliment!

But he is not it simple meyby not for her but is simple

No. That's Ferengi philosophy. Of course she'll be charged for it. ^_~

+Jamie Rose Ferengi charity is wholesale. it's something that's important to remember because it's as a species

good catch.

Nothing wrong with Charity so long as it ends up in your pocket.

He did say give, not gift. When I go to McDonalds, they give me my food. But they make sure I pay for it. I am sure he would have sent her a pay-on-delivery bill for them :P

Don't you mean "Surak damn it, he's right..."?

More like: "Daaaaamn... is it Pon'Far already?"

Later, Saakona comes up to Quark: "I have come to the logical conclusion that we should have sex."

Personally if he do this kind of speech to sell me a used car, I would buy it. He got the money, and I got the car. Business.

Salesmen and diplomats have a similar skillset. One sells things. The other sells IDEAS.

@@GuukanKitsune And both want the maximum return for the minimum investment. Usually they want to favor themselves whenever and however possible.

Interstellar war technically. Theres only one galaxy in the mix of this war.

selling used Bird of Prey

Prisoner's dilemma, which then leads to a Nash equilibrium

@Stripey Arse Was the cold war not resolved without a bullet being fired? At least by the major players? Proxies may have battled but there was no all out WW3. I think this is the point.

@Stripey Arse It was profitable for the warhawks.

If you enjoy that line of logic, you may enjoy a sci-fi short story called First Contact in which two technologically advanced ships meet in deep space. The question is posed: Can we go home now, not knowing if we will be followed? Feel free to listen here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UrL5oJ20CHo.html

@@CrustyWhiteBread If the big players did not fire any bullets, it's because of three words: Mutual Assured Destruction.

+Justin Benfield I don't think Kirk would shy away either. Picard would be too diplomatic for that but find another way and Janeway would blow them up.

+Martin Drkoš Kirk would probably try and fail absent plot armor requiring him to succeed at it. You're right, Picard would find another way, probably an appeal to morality or ethics in some form. As for Janeway, it's honestly hard to say because she's an incredibly inconsistent character (a function of two different writers with very different interpretations of who she was as a character).

+monokhem Not recently, but I watched a ton of it when I was younger (it was still on TV back then). I haven't seen much TOS, mostly TNG, DS9, and VOY, so I didn't see much of Spock's Mother.

+Justin Benfield Vulcans are good at logic. They're bad at determining the truth of premises.

+Martin Drkoš Kirk: I would not presume to debate you. Spock: That is wise. The Wrath of Khann

Apparently you are as old as I am to remember JFK on TV in October 1962 talking about it. I wanted him to do a surprise attack on Cuba even though it is the country I and my parents were born.

@@luislaplume8261 You don't have to be born in the 60's to remember JFK. I'm only 19 and I consider him to be the best president the United States has ever had.

@@soggybreadman4035 Because he didn't last very long... What do you think of Eisenhower though?

@@luislaplume8261 He did. It didn't end well. Listening to CIA "advice" rarely does:D And right after revolution _the price of acquisition of Cuba was at the all time low._ Instead of antagonizing cubans and pushing them into the open arms of the soviets. A small diplomatic favour here, a small loan to rebuild the country there. And Castro, who fanboyed for FDR to begin with, would have been a poster boy "domestic commie" so useful for propaganda. Judging by your attitude you are coming from a family of one of the landlords, who created a fertile soil for revolution in the first place, am I right?

@@TheArklyte You are WRONG! My late father used the rent money to use to do house repairs and upgrades, and pay property taxes as well as income. We lived in a 2 story house that he bought in December 1963, and it was 40 yards away from the Jamaica Ave El. on Jamaica Ave. My late mother went to work in order to also pay the mortgage on the house that he bought from the Jamaica Savings Bank in Jamaica, Queens in NYC. You know next to nothing about basic economics which I learned in school in the 1960s Mad Men era. NYC was and is the financial Capital of America during the colonial era and up til today. Even though Philadelphia was larger in size and population in the colonial era and the early years of this republic until 1830. It has and has the most influential place in place.

It's also a terrible way to negotiate, and also highlights to those around you that you are acting from an emotion standpoint, not a controlled logical one. If you are willing to pay anything to get what you want, then the price will be high and don't be surprised by "artificial shortage" by dragging out the sale as much as possible to ensure more can be asked over time as you become more emotional and desperate to agree to whatever terms.

That doesn't make any fucking sense.

Every Wing Commander player knows that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance! Which is quite expensive when you think about it, all those cameras, spy networks etc.

@@cattysplat Did anyone else immediately think of Brexit upon reading this?

Daniel “Mankind was at his *ZENITH* when fighting the Kilrathi.”

My favorite rule of acquisition

No joke, I've played strategy games where such a thing is possible, and it definitely confuses the hell out of me at times.

Peace is good for business.

@@vsgfilmgroup war is good for business

@@SamAx57 When no appropriate rule applies, make one up.

Let's just face facts, Quark can connect dots nobody knows exists, paint a picture with it, sell it at a premium to the Federation, Klingons, AND Romulans, use the profits to bribe his way out of trouble, and use what's left to get "Garak... simple Garak" to tailor him a snazzy new suit to celebrate a job well done.

I loved the episode where Jake wanted to buy a rare baseball card for his dad, but had no money for it, because humans no longer use money. He spent the whole episode being lectured by Nog and Quark about the fact that he obviously DID need money, since he wanted to BUY something. :)

Don’t forget he ALSO was able to use a very inexpensive and simple means to extract information about the mine-field’s weakness-get the man with knowledge drunk.

Rom is a space wizard, Rom is a rogue, and Quark is a bard maxed out on charisma. Y'all won't convince me otherwise.

Tigerman1138 That's a pretty good and near fool proof method of interrogation. The subjects have no idea their being interrogated and it's an excuse to watch and laugh at people who get piss drunk.

Business owner. Quark may tend the bar, but he also owns the bar/restaurant/casino.

@@matthewkreps3352 On a station in the middle of an area that is contested space in all but name only. He's come back from nearly full failure of his business multiple times. He's a survivor, and survivors aren't know to be stupid. His family has a tendency to be very smart too. Rom aside, his nephew Nog "beat" the Kobiashi Maru by causing the program to completely crash when he engaged the AI in a prolonged negotiations for the freedom of the crew. XD

To be fair to that Vulcan, she was approaching the logic from the wrong angle. Her logic was sound, if you failed to take into account alternative courses of action. Quark simply presented her with another perspective and another approach to resolving the conflict.

@@matthewkreps3352 Not to mention Brothel... *ahem* Holosuite.

@@angelangelis8362 hey Rom is a genius too. He was made Grand Negus after Zek retired

***** Not to sound quarrelsome, but that's not *quite* true. The Ferengi hadn't fought in a large-scale, interstellar war, but they did fight occasionally, and they did fight each other in their early history: Nog, remarking on the fast pace of human history, points out that they needed 10,000 years just to establish the Ferengi Alliance. What they didn't have, Quark pointed out once, was genocide or chattel slavery in their history. Neither did they irradiate their own planet with the indiscriminate use of nuclear fission. but I digress.

Nick Hentschel I was always a little disturbed by the way they treat their women as chattel though. Not only does that not really fit with that previous narrative as you put it, but also with the meritocratic parts of their outlook. I'm not sure whether that's saying something about the nearsightedness of the species or it's just the writers doing a little American jabbing.

The Bellman Excuse me, but that's changing the subject a bit. I don't recall stating any sort of "narrative" like you describe, much less calling Ferengi culture a meritocracy. You're reading far too much into what I said. All I said, was that this scene showed how there was *some* logic in the Ferengi's point of view, and that in turn, this suggested how their seemingly warped culture had survived. I never touched on the status of women, or the other topics you mention, and frankly, the "chattel" issue isn't relevant to this scene.

Nick Hentschel I just wanted to introduce a question. You did put forth Quark's narrative about how the Ferengi never had Chattel slavery or genocide, and their survival of the fittest outlook was to their advantage, which is why I said it's odd that the status of women in their society didn't evolve down a similar path. That's all.

The Bellman Sorry; let me back up a bit here. First, please pardon me for sounding snappish. I've had recent problems, right here on YT, with people who hijacked conversations without permission, trying to drag me into side subjects that I didn't feel like discussing. They even got mad at me when I refused to do so, and I'm afraid it's made me defensive. Second, I thought you were responding to my original post, not the side discussion I started with CYP. I did get involved with a disucssion of the Ferengi's history, and it included a mention of the Ferengi not engaging in what I should have called, "commercial" slavery. Even so, I was mostly correcting CYP's misquotes, with much of my own information coming from Memory Alpha (the Star Trek Wiki). Again, I never called the Ferengi, "meritocrats," nor defended, "survival of the fittest." You're still reading things into my remarks that I didn't say. I simply pointed out that the profit-minded view had some validity here, and that is shed light on Ferengi history as a whole.

Quark was always smarter and more clever than anyone gave him credit for.

That's how he knew Odo really loved him.

The Kardashians should never be trusted; this is COMMON sense.

Hey that's racist

See this right here should be turned into a political speech.

NO WAY

could you elaborate on that?

ironic isn't it

That's also very funny because Andrew Ryan is very similar in political ideology to Mr House from Fallout, who is voiced by the actor of Odo. The Stupendium references this in his Mr House rap, when he says "ask my buddy, Andrew Ryan"

Interesting fact. I just started playing the first one.

I always loved Star Trek for both.

For real... an unexpected philosophy school disguised as a "bam boom" show

You know you're an adult when you watch a scene for the dazzling diplomacy.

The excessive pseudo -science dialog actually bugs me more as an adult.

I liked it for both, even as a kid

But that's the thing. The Rules hold a similar place in Ferengi culture to something like The Art of War or The Book of Five Rings. So a warrior treats everything as War, A ferengi treats everything as Business, each applying their respective rules to every aspect of their lives.

All Ferenghi have MBA's.

War is merely a bloody continuation of business and politics.

Ferengi: Hoo-man, _everything_ is business!

Actually, I think Quark's use of logic was causing the Vulcan to enter Pon farr prematurely.

Who have thought that star trek Mickey mouse would have been the hero for so many that don't know his name.

Exactly

My only issue with this, is that a Ferengi would never drop a mic...not only does it cause a decrease in the resale value of said mic, but the resulting feedback of an audio recording instrument hitting the floor is incredibly painful on the lobes.

@@migueldelacruz4799 lol "star trek Mickey mouse"? X-D

What it is is the sound of the following thought in her head: "........Son of a bitch, the Ferengi is right."

yep

it was a Vulcan sploosh

Legend has it that the Vulcan woman spontaneously entered Pon-farr and ended up with a lot of large-eared children.

LIKE THEIR PLANET AAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO