New King of Magnetic Power? | Electromagnet vs. Neodymium Magnet 

You should give superconducting magnets a try. You won't have to worry about heat or any power loss, just need a good source of liquid nitrogen. Would love to see your detailed analysis of one!

Could we all just take a moment to appreciate the quality put into these videos? Truly amazing, keep it up man!

The truly strongest form of magnetism is produced by your enthusiasm for magnets. It's what keeps attracting people back to your channel.

Overclocking an electromagnet and colling it with an AIO. Are we now at LTT? 😆 Biggest gains on that magnet would come from cooling it down with LN2. Would be a great vid, temperature vs magnetic strength vs power draw. With that tesla meter of yours, it would be very interesting to see that curve!

I'm an engineer that designs linear motors with permanent magnets. Your testing of the open air magnetic field does not represent the lifting power of the electromagnet. If you put the electromagnet against a flat piece of steel with a gauss meter in between, you would measure a much higher field. Note that the steel plate should be thick to get the highest measurements (10 mm thick is probably enough). With the electromagnet in the open air (no steel plate), the magnetomotive force must be distributed across the air gap between the center circular pole and the outside ring pole. If you put those poles against against a flat steel plate (steel has high permeability), the air gap is much smaller, and you will end up with a much larger field (probably around or over 10000 Gauss, approaching the saturation point of the steel pole in the center). When you use the neodymium magnet against a steel plate, it's large magnetomotive force is mostly spent creating a magnetic field across its own (low permeability) interior -- its own material acts much like an air gap. It's magnetomotive force is so high, however, that it can create high forces. I would suggest that you perform a lifting test with the two magnets, and see how much weight you can lift with each one. Hang your magnet from a strong support with the poles facing down on the electromagnet (it looks like the electromagnet may have threaded holes for this purpose). Stick a thick (1 cm or more), flat piece of steel to the bottom of the magnet. Add weight to the steel until it falls off. That will give you a much better idea of the lifting capability. Repeat with the Neodymium magnet (You will likely have to use a clamp to hang the Neodymium magnet, or you can just stick it to the bottom of a thick steel beam or plate). The electromagnet will have high attractive forces with a small gaps, but the force will fall off quickly with increasing gaps. The Neodymium magnet's forces will fall off more slowly with increasing gap. When performing the same test with a thin sheet of steel, the sheet of steel will saturate (it has high permeability for only about the first 20000 gauss, and then saturates), and you will get much lower attractive forces. Good luck!

That was such a good safety tip. I would have never thought about needing a UPS for your lab bench power supply.

The electromagnet has the advantage of metal cup to close (concentrate) the magnetic circuit. If you gave the neo magnet a similar cup it would increase its holding force, further increasing its advantage. A lot of fridge magnets do this so they can use cheaper ceramic magnets that wouldn't hold without the cup. flexible sheet magnets do something similar by alternating polarity in stripes. You should also look at switchable permanent magnets as they have feature parity with electromagnets.

There is a trick with electromagnets , which allows you to reach higher pulling force than any permanent magnet is able on , without overheating of the coil . You need to grind (as fine as possible ) electromagnet’s poles and the metal surface on which you want to lock them . Than use capacitors battery ( you may need ultracapacitors ( also known as supercapacitors or ionistors ) ). Charge the capacitors battery to few times higher voltage than the electromagnet is rated for . Than discharge the capacitors battery via the electromagnet’s coil . The enormous current pulse will create enormous magnetic field . The interesting part is that this field doesn’t disappear or weaken in the magnetic guide after the the coil current is disrupted so there is no any reason for heating and the magnetic guide loop can stay closed infinitely. You can open it by applying the same amount of current but with opposite polarity of the voltage on coil terminals . You can see such experiments in the following video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-s-5FMFzSPYU.html unfortunately on Russian language . By the way the strongest magnetic fields are archived by electromagnets !

Your electromagnets brought some memories. When I first got to deal with the math of electromagnets, I decided to try some optimization of my own. To my frustration, the math "converged" always to the lowest number of wire turns, using heavier and heavier gauge wires. In fact, my end result was that a single turn of wire that filled the whole available volume always produced the highest magnetic flux with least resistive heat. Of course, the flux density is determined by the air gap, as long as the core does not saturate. Your probing showed well below my usual assumption of 1.2 T (tesla = 10 000 gauss) to 1.5 T field density saturation for ordinary magnetic core materials. So you would be able to push beyond the neodymium field density with a single turn winding and maybe 0.1 V / 200 A supply without excessive heating, if you can provide such a supply. (0.1 V x 100 A = just 10 W).

The King of Magnetism is Back!

Just started binge watching this channel a few videos ago. Looking forward to seeing the progression up the liquid-> water -> sub-ambient -> L2N goes, as the colder it run, the better it runs.

I love making those little homemade bolt electromagnets in fact, If you give the electromagnet more current it will get hotter. More Voltage = More Strength | More Current = More Heat. I even tried to make an electromagnet oven by giving it around 5v DC 2 amps. this gave the magnets a fair amount of strength. but they got very hot. I was almost able to make toast with my oven! They even have induction cookers that are just a giant electromagnets with lots of current. It's fun to experiment with this kind of stuff! keep it up Brainiac75!!

Would be nice to see it cooled down with LN2!

This guy take months to make a video but it was worth it

Guys in the future our electromagnets will be water-cooled, braniac is making a breakthrough 😂

I wish I had cared about my firsts as much as this guy. Starting his first electromagnet for the first time with his first power supply. Very cool.

I made my own electromagnet recently out of an old microwave transformer. Using a couple old car batteries it got hot fast but it was so strong with that much current, the shovel would instantly stick and not come off until the power was disconnected haha It was fun trying out different ways of powering and messing with different sizes of transformers

Great video, When I was younger I used to work for a company that had an electro magnetic lock on the door. During office opening hours the door was propped open and the magnet was at the top of the door frame. For fun we would turn the lock on and put some paperclips on the magnet. Then when someone walked through the door we would turn the magnet off as the paper clips dropped on their head. It was harmless fun as we watched from a distance as the bemused person wondered where the paperclips came from. This would amuse us for hours.

I’d love to see you take a look At electro permanent magnets. They’ve always fascinated me. Basically a “pulse” of current switches them on and off - during either operation, no electricity is required!

I sense a monster neodymium versus monster electromagnet battle coming up, maybe like King Kong versus Godzilla??

It seems peculiar that you focus so much on wattage of an electromagnet. The magnetic flux you get is proportional to current times number of turns in the coil (at least until you reach magnetic saturation of the core). If you rebuild the graph at 4:35 with current as the x value, you'd get a pretty much linear plot. So, if you want power efficiency, you need to minimise the coil resistance. Use thicker wire gauge, and/or employ some radical cooling (dry ice or even liquid nitrogen).

Most people don't realize that it is the field gradient -- NOT the field strength -- that causes magnetic force on iron. (But gradients and intensity both scale with current making it easy to be misled.) Additionally, closing the flux paths by placing iron across the open face will eliminate flux through the coil and greatly increase the field at the poles. As performed, your measurements mean very little; the permanent magnet does NOT have this alternate flux path.

Great video. This gave me inspiration to prepare some electromagnets for use around the shop. My son wanted to make a solenoid engine for a class of his. Running the math to look for more power we found a honey comb array of smaller core and coils had a lot of advantages. We never built it though. His teacher was happy just with the math Thanks again for the video

I love this channel so so much. Thank you, Brainiac75!

Funny my first thought with the electromagnet when I saw its performance was - what if it was cooled and you over-volted it? And of course the next thought was - what if you cooled it with LN2? Also I think it would be neat if you could get your hands on a bitter electromagnet or maybe collab with a bitter magnet manufacturer. I think the current record for man made magnetic fields is a bitter magnet rated at 45.5 Tesla (455,000 gauss). Would be super cool to see you experiment with one.

Will come back for the follow-up video. Well done!

Superconducting Magnets are fascinating as well as dangerous too Thanks for the Video

💡Stack an electromagnet and neodymium. (Epoxy a coil around the neodymium magnet.) You can use a pulse to temporarily cancel out the permanent magnet. Iron can also be used to focus the power just like the electromagnet in this video, just make the center part the neodymium magnet. 👍

Some permanent magnets can also turn on/off by bend their flux in the same direction or opposite direction.(you need at least 2 of them with electromagnet material to make the magnetic force go in loop when turn opposite direction for turning off.)

Ok this is definitely something I never imagined hearing: Watercooling and overclocking your magnet. LOL

A quality experiment to entertain before bed. Goodnight, Brainiac75.

The most powerful magnetic fields are generated by compound coils, admittedly using super conductors. If electric vehicle development is not to be limited by the availability of rare earth elements, then motors must use electromagnet field generation, rather than permanent neodymium magnetics.

I made electromagnets as a child using a nail as core and copper enameled wire about 22swg (0.7mm). I connected them up to my train set 12 V DC transformer but they did not work very well. After reading a book I saw they put a wrap of writing paper around the core so tried this and it worked very well and much stronger.

I'm switching all my magnets to these! Now I'll need batteries to keep my daughter's pictures on the fridge.

What about heating in the electro when holding a load (poles connected with Fe object)? What about advantages of electros vs Neos in generator or motor applications (control vs economy)?

Next test some of those magnets with an on/off switch. Made for fixing and lifting stuff.

Would enjoy electromagnetic stuff!

I'm happy you are finally getting into electromagnets. I really like neodymium magnets. I allways seem to find stray magnets and I have an ever growing collection. I found a stack of 4 2"x3x1/4 on a shopping cart. Those are super strong and were an amazing find.

I'd really like to see you make your own electromagnet, that is as strong as you can possibly (and safely) make it.

Don't let naughty magnets near you credit cards either. I have an old demolition yard magnet in my shed..

I second the AIO cooling for a future video.

YES! more electromagnets!! That is pretty cool. I think you should give a microwave transformer a try, easy to get and you can cut out the secondary and put 2 primaries into it for more coils!

electromagnets are one of the most important components in particle accelerators such as the Large Hadron Collider or some of the many synchrotronns used to make intense X-ray beams. Most of the normal ie not superconducting magnets use copper tubes as "wires" and pass 100's of Amps through them at low ish voltages. The tubes allow low conductivity water to be passed through the wires to keep the magnets at a stable temperature of around room temperature when operating. These magnets have to be very stable under the current load so the magnets do not move as the guide the path of charged particles. For the synchrotron the maximum field that can be made is about 1.4 Tesla and this is related to the saturation magnetic field induced in the iron core. If you use another alloy called permalloy instead of Iron you can get up to about 2.5 Teslas. Fields beyond this require superconducting wires that at present have to use liquid Helium cooling to operate. If you search for magnets for synchrotrons you will find that some devices use rare earth magnets because they can produce very high magnetic fields in very small spaces which you cannot match with normal electromagnets.

Very detailed overview. I challenge you to solve the faraday paradox!!! A faraday homopolar generator with fixed magnets on the rotor, poles will be axially and radially. It produces dc voltage with no back emf

It is interesting what is the process of DIY making of permanent magnet with electricity. Or fixing of existing one, which lost its properties.

Seeing you overclock the magnet with an AIO would be awesome, hope you do it!

You should go all out with experimenting with pushing a electromagnet's ability and using a cooling system. Its just really interesting to be able to play with the settings, adjustments, etc. Im wondering if there could be some insane ways a super powerful one, or a setup system of them could be used if say: hypothetically you ran some off of a modern advanced nuclear energy reactor. Could be small form, thorium reactor, LFTRs... But could definitely power some really fun science experiments that's for sure. And the energy source would be efficient, no emissions, stable, strong. It would be exciting to power a efficient system that runs off of the electrical output from a power source like that.

I'd definitely like to see the results of cooling the elecromagnet. Regular computer heatsink, heatsink with fan, submerged in ice water, heatsink with ice water submersion, liquid CPU cooler, or even liquid nitrogen as someone mentioned. Maybe you could use an intermediate medium to work your way down to liquid nitrogen temps instead of doing it all in one step. Hopefully you'll do several of those, but even one cooling method will be neat. Thanks for a great video as always.

Some permanent magnets can be turned on and off. The switch reverses a fraction of the magnet with the rest of the magnet so the external field is cancelled.

The ohms was measured under specific outside temps and pressures.

You probably don't want to use an all-in-one cooler, as the pump motor is in the cold-plate, and the electromagnet would probably interfere with its operation.

Use the Neodymium magnet for lifting, and the electromagnet to disable the magnetic field for releasing the object.

I bet Brainiac's dream vehicle is one of those magnetic cranes that we see at scrap yards. I can't wait till he'll eventually get one. 😁

Good video for a nice evening.

connecting a diode anti-parallel to the electromagnet will absorb that flyback surge, (back-EMF) which protects the inside coils from possible flash over, and protects you from a potentially nasty shock! Watch for core saturation, if over-clocking. You will reach a point, where the core reaches its absolute maximum strength, and will not become stronger by continuing to increase current.

The root relationship is quite simple to explain with basic physics. The magnetic field (B) is directly proportional to the current (A). The relationship between the current and the power (P) is quadratic (P = I² • R). This results in a root relationship between P and B. I would therefore always put the current on the x-axis (set value) and the field on the y-axis (dependent value). What would make the video even better would be a physical underpinning. The electromagnet is a coil. You can strongly influence the properties of this by changing the length, diameter or number of turns. Also, the use of a core of steel or ferrite can influence the strength. You can easily adjust all these properties yourself to make a much stronger magnet. Most importantly, more current, stronger magnet. So if you can get more current through more turns without the magnet heating up too much, then you have a good magnet. Thick wire, many turns, around a ferrite core.

There is a rare type of magnets, that are switchable on/off like an electromagnet, but dont need power and act like constant magnets. I built one this year and I very like it. Would be nice if you made a video about this

Congratulations ! This is one of the bether videos that a have seen ! The question is : If I need 8w of power or 8 joules by second of energy to get 400 N of pull , what kind of energy the permanent magnets need and where it receves this energy from? It is almost sure the neodymium magnets receves a kind of energy from universe , then it is not so absurd to imagine a magnect mouter runing by itselfs . Do a video comparing the capacity of moving wheght corps by eletromagnets and permanent magnets along the space. Please!

Reminds me of Codys Lab crazy electromagnetic that used a whole bunch of car batteries in series. If you want scary amounts of magnetic strength you need scary amounts of voltage and heat generation.

Try using the electromagnet as an **AC** electromagnet. Can your power supply vary the frequency? Opening magnetic effects to non-ferromagnetic things = interesting.

Great content, infORMaTion!

Well I for one, am excited for this new age

A cool idea for a project: build a machine that makes a 3d map of the magnetic fields of magnets.

A water cooler electro magnet, this just sounds like something that has to be done now.

You should try to make halbach array out of neodymium, electro magnets, and super conducting magnets. You can arrange them to concentrate the fields and make them even stronger or make them cancel out to "turn off" neodymium magnets.

Having learned about the existence of Magnetars having over (10 ^11) Tesla, I'd say our magnets are pretty weak.

These magnet episodes are what attracted me to the channel, I think I'll stick with it.

I would like to see a super cooled electromagnet.

I work at APC (by Schneider-Electric), and seeing an APC UPS in this setup makes me giddy. Too bad our testing cage is off limits when active, it could have been a fun video.

many lifting and welding magnets are build using permanent magnets, but the can be switched off! Perhaps you can look into those. Australian swich magnets are interesting, but there are many brands of this stuff, even very old 😂

Could you use an electromagnet to open a Sentry safe? Multiple videos using neodymium magnets.

Very interesting!

Excellent video

Electromagnet cooled and overclocked? didn't know I needed to see that.

With electro-magnets there is almost no limit. You just need more current or more turns and the sky's the limit. Try seeing how much you can over clock it with only a pulse. Hook it up to a high voltage capacitor. Inductance will prevent immediate discharge but you should be able to get pretty high never the less. (or fight inductance with inductance. Use another inductor to drive current into the thing in a way it can't refuse.)

If you have 2 x 1000 pound pull-force magnets in the same building you have to plan your route VERY CAREFULLY if you are going to move them.

PLEASE DO NOT FORGET THE THERMAL PASTE WITH THE AIO!!!!! :D

You should check out switchable magnets. I have no idea how they work, only that they use a grid of permanent magnets lined up so that when you turn one part there's little to no magnetic field, and when you turn it back there's a very strong one.

Wait for our Scandinvian weather and cool it outdoors?

Only one thing. Overclock is for processors. You litterally turn up the clock ratio on those. Just, i don't have a good replacement but your thing is not overclock :)

Your channel is such a great find

wondered when electromagnets would appear, now i can't help but wonder how bad it would be if electro meets neodymium

im just waiting for the next logical step. superconductivite magnets!

I would like to see you try to use AC magnets, just doing a few experiments you have done before but with an AC magnet, at varying frequency.

After you try to overclock with a PC AIO cooler you should go all out and overclock with liquid nitrogen.

Also I guess one of the advantages of a neodymium magnet is that it will always hold your load. So instead of using energy to hold the load in the air, you only need the energy to release it.

I think one of the downfalls of neodymium magnets is that they can be damaged by high temperature that causes them loss of magnetic field strength.

The shape of the magnet matters, try a cone shape without the point, 40mm dia base with 10mm tip, enjoy the power of a focused magnetic field :)

Thanks!

Cool it! Cool it! Cool it! (The crowd roars ;-)

Will you create a VOD upon gram comparison? To understand traveling usage

Now you need to combine them

just came across my mind: what happens if you put a magnet on an induction cooker?

Great video !

Wow that’s so cool

I'm curious to see that homemade electromagnet with a thermal imager when it's turned on.

Wind your own 10 gauge magnet wire, and up the amperage significantly. Then you will approach the energy density of your neo.

Mount a Noctua NH-D15 on the back of the electromagnet, or better yet, water-cool it with a water block, a D5 pump, and a thick radiator!

I recommend to use a diode to short the pulse when disconnecting the coil.

0:52 How much difference does it make how nicely the wire is wrapped?