@@calvinbowen3940 well. let me ask you the same question. if china trying to influence Texas to be independent and we both know Texas do have the intention to be independent. what us will do ? the first priority is to avoid that happening. not only because it belong to us before in history(which is not the real case for texas), but because when Texas out, us will loose a big economic and taxation support , which trigger negative impact to other American in other regions. other, Texas, though strong, will be easier to be manipulated by other counties. and in this case, back to the topic, people benefits won't be guaranteed compared to when they belonged to their historical concept.
This young Chinese guy logically nailed it and kept all 'wise' old Western experts silent. Although he was in minority and surrounded by western democrats but with his words and reasoning, he did not allow anyone to dominate him. A brilliant example of debate and argument in its sublime form.
@@calvinbowen3940 well. that's why we are so prepared for the military strength. if outsider power, don't invade, we just get prepare. if it is, let's see who gonna win the war. as a young Chinese, if there is invasion, I will devote all of my strength and even life to teach the invadet a lesson, now is fucking different from before. many Chinese are like me, if you want, you can have a damn try
We must define "freedom" first before the discussion. When people said "Hong Kong has no freedom", I usually have to ask "what kind of freedom you think Hong Kong is missing?". When people said "China has no human rights", I usually have to ask "what kind of right you think China is lacking?". Mr. Li has a lot of patient to educate these people who obviously had been looking at China through nothing but western propaganda. When people tell me how bad China is, I usually have to ask "When is the last time you visited China to see things with your own eyes and hear things with your own ears?"
I think you are myopic when you vouch for China's sanctity when atrocities were pepetrated on its own citizens in Tianamen and now in Xinjiang after Tibet.
@@MenonMenonti All lies. Try looking it up instead of swallowing propaganda. The only thing close to an atrocity was Tiananmen Square. But the numbers are clearly exaggerated. There's no evidence that the official numbers are wrong. They put it at 200 people including soldiers. That's right, these peaceful protesters attacked and killed soldiers.
Many westerners are harping about freedom of speech but do not realized they really don’t have one. A bad comment on yt is taken down all the time for example. The west don’t understand how the chinese view the ccp and why are platforms like FB or YT are banned. Most chinese view their ccp gov as their father or head of the family by heart due to recent successful track record. Regarding the ban of FB or YT, as I mentioned above, they can control what they want you to see which is dangerous for any country. No difference to why so many countries ban porns or etc. If a platform that can be used by the US to brainwash their people, why would any country allow it? Freedom comes with responsibility. Do you have the freedom to kill? Same thing
@@blardymunggas6884 Also, the block can be easily cercumvented by using a VPN. What the great firewall really serves as is to promote usage of Chinese alternatives. Which serves most Chinese just fine. The only really downside to that is that we westerners don't get to hear their side. But having this so called freedom, I realize most people who express opinions on the Internet are mostly morons. And like you point out, we're also subjected to censorship.
你可以回答：we Chinese since ancient times always value diversity and harnomy of all sorts of art forms, it would be gravely unfortunate if the unenlightened fail to observe its true beauty.
Eric Li (李世默) did very well in this forum. Wasn't excessively defensive when put on a spot by 4 or 5 western voices questioning the Chinese Government's legitimacy, the perceived threat of a rising China, the situation in Hong Kong and Taiwan, and fear of China becoming another hegemon. He was clam, his responses were thoughtful, drawing references from history, citing present-day realities to illustrate what a non-interventionist, peaceful rise, even with its more assertive nature, is like. Hopefully, it moved the needle a little in the minds of the Western audience that China is not treading the path of empire, and has no wish to dominate the region or the world.
Eric does very well. But just one question. 1st. Why did he stay so long in the US making so much money. Why didn't he go back to china if the system in the US is so unfair. 2nd. Then it is unfair to say that there is a big gap between rich and poor in the US only because it does also exists in china where you have many billionnaires like Jack ma and peasants earning just only $200 per month. Also, the young rich generation in china is just showing off whilst there are millions of people still under the poverty standard. 3rd Then you have the cheap labour of china. Will china continue to rise when labour gets more expensive. Not sure???
Yvette Cowley one question became 3 questions...lol. I’m not Eric so I don’t know the reason why he stayed there for 9 years, but he probably stayed to get enough working experience in the US after graduation so that his CV would look great, and earning some money at the same time to start his own business. He admitted he enjoyed his stay in the US, I guess Americans were a lot more friendly then. China also has huge rich poor gap but poor are being taken care of by the government; the beauty of socialism. Lastly, you probably don’t know China well. China has been moving up the tech ladder and wages have increased, attracting and fulfilling the dreams of Chinese graduates who mostly are STEM graduates, so it’s no longer cheap labor. China has got more advanced tech going on with manufacturing capabilities. That’s why US is so afraid.
@@josephsiew8494 I know china much more than you think. BTW, I have great admiration for the chinese hardwork and they are very good at Maths. Hats off but what I am trying to say is that it is not socialism that made china what it is today. China has all my respects for their achievements. But you need to understand that many people (not the graduates ) working in industries are earning below $300 per month. That's not much for someone working 12 hrs a day and 6 times a week and for a country who is lending billions to African countries. There is also a big gap between the rich and the poor in china. When I was in Shanghai, I saw many stupid rich wasting their money on alcohol whilst other people were struggling to earn a decent living. Stop beleiving that china is a communist country. You probably follow fox news or CNN too often..lol It is a capitalist country like the US except that it is progressing much faster for the fol reasons: 1. It has the largest market in the world 2. It is strategically well positioned in the East. 3. Labour is 6 times cheaper than in the west. 4. Chinese are more hardworking and obedient due to a centralized communist gov. Money is the gold standard for the chinese. My friend, this mentality is capitalism and not SOCIALISM. Use your common sense. Eric says many truth about the west but not everything is true. Likewise, the US says many things on china where many things are false. Always use your common sense.
@@yvettecowley873 sure, China is capitalistic, as it has always been. But, it's just not capitalist. Socialism plays a huge role in stabilizing Chiba's internal affairs, cos like you said, China's rich poor gap is huge. Poor are taken care of. For eg, you might find migrant workers being paid very little, yet they have huge savings, house in their hometown, land etc. They are just waiting for the day their house(s) got acquired by the government or developers and become rich. Or, just like my relatives who own buildings on land that was converted from farm land. They were poor, but they now live like some rich bastards all thanks to CCP. Of course, they still get their monthly pension and medical coverage. It's paradise, my friend. Now look at US, racism has ignited the biggest riots since 1992. The underlying is also rich poor, elites vs have-nots. If only they had CCP.
@@josephsiew8494 At least we agreed on a common point. Both US and China are capitalist. It would be very ignorant to beleive that china's success is due to socialism. China is trying to do more socialism but this is due to the economic growth ( GDP increase) and you unfortunately can only speed up your economic growth via capitalism. Ask yourself where are you now. I am sure you are from a western country . So did democracy prevent you from surviving?? The answer is NO!! Did the CCP help you to earn a living?? Again the answer is a NO!! So as an overseas chinese, how did u survive in an unfair society like the US or UK?? The answer is simple. It is not democracy or a totalitarian gov that makes people succeed but the people themselves need to be hardworking and disciplined. The CCP should stop believing that china's success is due to socialism when in fact the merits goes directly to the hardworking entrepreneurs. Wealth is being distributed to the farmers but there is still an exponential gap between rich and poor in china. China is no different from the US except that you have the advantage of having a cheap labour and a hard working population. When price of labour goes up, you will start facing the same systematic problems as in the west especially that you have a 1.4 billion population to feed.
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One has to admire Eric Li brilliant, logical, cogent wisdoms expressed in a way for ordinary mortals like us to understand geopolitical issues. Jia you Forever youthful Eric Li. Nin hen bang.!!!
Eric X Li has a remarkably sharp and lucid intellect. Cuts through a lot of the mental baggage too many in Western countries tend to carry around with them as superior to potential alternatives neglecting a lot of the harm/collateral damage the proselyting of Democracy particularly by the US has heaped on many nations.
Whenever China was discussed, it kind of feels like the whole table vs Eric li. This western professors didn't come on to the table with an open mind and seems ready to nitpick on all the small things that China is doing wrong.
Exactly, but they will learn it in a really hard way,especially after corona virus outbreaks,and the protest of America.But the problem is are they smart enough to acknowledge it?If not it's just beginning.
Actually it's much better this time. If you go back into 2018 nexus debating table, you will see how those geezers attack China with their inherent prejudice. The participants here are much more objective than last year's.
THESE PEOPLE WILL NEVER GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE. "THE RISE OF CHINA IN THE WORLD WITHOUT ANY VIOLENCE, IS SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE". DAMN, NO ONE IN THE PANEL SAID ANYTHING. WHY? PRIDE, ANIMOSITY, SUPERIORITY, .... PLAY A PART ON THEIR ATTITUDES. ITS UNFORTUNATE.
The ex Portuguese diplomat mentioned (1:23:07) that there should be orders in place to constraint a rising China. "The aggression of China" he purported is pure speculation. China has been accused of a crime it has not committed and "thought" will commit in the future by the western countries. These countries choose to police something not yet happened in the future whilst turn a blind eye and acquiesce in US politicians' tyranny and aggression. These countries have no moral backbones; they keep quiet on their aggressive overlord's invasions in Irag, Afghanistan and Syria. They are now ganging up on China.
Yes, I almost couldn't believe my ears when I heard this. The audacity and the sheer "holier-than-thou" mind set of the West are displayed here fully for all to see. When he claimed it is imperative to find ways to restraint a growing China, he totally forgot about the elephant in the room - the US, who is currently the bloody tyrant who terrorizes the world relentlessly and yet he chose to ignore it, nor even want to verbally explore how to " contain" US first before talk about containing China. Hypocrisy of the West once again has unequivocally won the day.
I have come back to this discussion a few times. Eric handles the group well, being sensitive and respectful towards the bewildered participants from across the Atlantic. I couldn't help feeling, though, that everyone was beating around the bush, missing some key point. Eric insists that the West should consider alternatives to Western liberal democracy. They refuse to accept this proposition because they still believe that their system is superior than any alternative. They have yet to come out of the shadow of Churchill's well known remark: "Democracy is the worst form of government, but it's better than the alternatives that we know of," or something to this effect. The standard defense of liberal democracy by Western politicians and intellectuals is the separation of administrative, legislative and judicial powers, whereby the government's power is defined and confined by law. Be that as it may, it is well acknowledged that real political power in the West lies with money, in the hands of financial oligarchs and special interest groups who influence and control government policy making. Are the legislative and judicial powers as designed and exercised in Western liberal democracy capable of curbing and controlling this real power? If not, the standard defense falls apart automatically, or so it follows. In all debates on liberal democracy, I find this question not asked and I tend to think that this is the root of the bewilderment felt across the the Atlantic and the world.
You can't win a debate losing your temper, so Eric Li was well-prepared in not fighting head-on but talking like he's on their side and never losing his composure. For example, he basically said China's rise hasn't fired a single shot and he qualified it with "NOT YET" -> that's the killer there. But, watch the video where Eric Li says the West (namely USA) throws everything and the kitchen sink at China. In that video, Eric Li is much more candid in his thoughts. It's also pretty funny hearing how Eric Li really feels about the West's fumbles.
Being from Canada, the Canadian rep at the table (can’t spelled his name off-hand; he was a prime minister want to be a few elections ago) made me laugh. “We’re in a post imperialist world.” He said it so convincingly as if he really believed it. My goodness, imperialism is just as alive and well as it were 100 years ago, just took on more insidious, more self-righteous, and more subtle forms. Ask any Latin American countries if their relationship with the USA is a post-Imperialist one. Ask the same of any African or Middle East country the same question and one will find that in the eyes of most 3rd and 4th world countries, imperialism is strong as ever. And this chap’s fear that “the world will be led by a one-party nation” is just as hilarious. He is projecting the West’s obsession about power and control to China. It is the West that wants to lead (and therefore dominate and control and push its political system on) the world. China’s worldview is different. It has no interest in leading the world. It has no interest in convincing other countries that its system is superior or should be adopted. To each it’s own. If the West wants a multi-party system, have fun with it. China doesn’t care. We like differences. So don’t worry, Mr. Prime Minister want-to-be. You couldn’t beg China hard enough to “lead the world.” That is too much trouble for China.
VERY well said! I only wish my fellow Westerners had more of an understanding of China, her current, changing system and vision of the future. Unfortunately, they have erected a wall, between what they have been told China is; and those of us TRYING to break through and show them the truth. I continue to send out videos like this and Dr Mahbubani , (who does an even better job as a non-Chinese expert on China’s system), to TRY and break through that wall. We are currently at an extremely dangerous point as misinformation and accusations dominate Western media about this virus. Although I have been involved for a few years in trying to change the narrative surrounding China; it is as if the elites in their arrogance have thrown a tank of gas on a smoldering fire. I wish I knew what the solution is because, I’ll be honest; I’m terrified right now.
"Leading" is such a hilarious and arrogant word when it comes to international affairs. "influence" is more reasonable to me. China is not perfect, it's just right for Chinese for now, and not so arrogant as western "liberal" world. hope it can always make the right decisions, which is extremely hard.
Because China has so many internal problems to solve it simply too busy to lead to the wold. Secondly, leading the world is not realistic in the new era, even for US. I don't think China is stupid enough to be obsessed to dominance or leading.
It's ok to have opinions, biased or not. I'm glad these gentlemen are speaking out, hopefully presenting a certain percentage of their population. The importance is to be able to express their thought and get answered. Mr. Li did beautifully at the table. While everyone wanted to see more about China, he delivered, clair and loud with respect. I hope we can have more talks like this. It's not just about China or US, as a big family, we should always welcome this kind of chat and questioning.
This is the right answer to the theme discussed here. I think this is the reason why China develop so fast but the western countries especially the US are faced with gradually increased anxiety. When politics matters so much, they are unable to face directly to their own problems. They try to find solution to all their internal issues from outside of the world. This is fundamentally wrong. You will never get a real fix to your problems unless your face directly to the fact.
I hope the Chinese scholars, as sincere as they want to be, come to realise that a lot of the questions being asked in situations like this, were actually false propositions. Like the one from the former EU official, he asked "China said many times and at many places that it has no intention to dominate the world, and hasn't done so externally in the past years, but how can we be sure it will not in the future?" What he was actually saying, and really not asking, was, "We cannot trust China, never did, don't and are likely not from where we stand nowadays. And China needs to fulfil our criteria and join our framework, so we can perhaps be a bit more receptive to a country, which we consider is totally different from us". Eric, by all means, was very patient to actually explain a lot, but he could also address the foundation of these false propositions and ask back "trust depends on both sides, and what can you do to contribute to a win-win cooperative relationship with China." 最近看到沈逸教授说起TikTok 事件时，谈到中国企业的全球化进程中的对国际环境的认知和有效的回应确实还有些距离。在政治经济体制讨论时，我希望越来越多的中国学者或企业家能看到有的问题实际上是假命题。看似在问，实际在重复内在的认知偏差和刻板印象，因为对方缺乏对自己体制之外的基本的想象力甚至好奇心。像这位前欧盟官员问到“中国在很多地方说她不想称霸，过去也没曾称霸，但我们如何确定他将来以后不会称霸？” 让对方承诺未来本身就是假命题，他实则在说，而不是问，“我们过去就是这样干的，所以我们不信任中国，过去没信任过，目前看来也不会，你们中国如何能符合我们的要求和框架，然后我们才能决定是否会信任你们”。李世墨先生非常认真和耐心的解释了很多，但他也可以反问，“信任是靠双方的，我们一个巴掌拍不响，如果你们真有诚意去实现共赢，那你们会做出什么来共同达到一个信任默契度？” 西方的民间问题在政府中得不到彻底的讨论，人民觉得精英在背后渔利；但正是这种”你来迎合我的心态，不是你赢就是我输的”竞争心态让领导力缺乏人民的基础。好的是一部分知识分子在自省，但超出到自己体制外后，就显得脑力不足了
*From around **1:11:00** the speaker disingenuously asserts **_"When the one country two systems ends in 2047, that a lot of people in Hong Kong who like to remain free will not be free and a lot of people in Taiwan who like to be free will in the end not be free. They will be unified but on the conditions dictated by China. That's the issue, right? And I don't see a story here that begins to respect the longing for democratic freedom that you see in Taiwan and you see in Hong Kong."_* *Two problems with the statement. (1) Is he serious when he says Kong Kongers will no longer be free after 1947? That is utterly disingenuous if not downright dishonest. Has he actually visited China? Does he really think mainland Chinese have no freedom? (2) What is the nonsense about _"longing for democratic freedom that you see in Taiwan and you see in Hong Kong"_? Has the speaker already forgotten that the British did not introduce democracy to Hong Kong during their rule? Westerners typically speak from both sides of their mouths depending on what suit them. They continue to wear the stain of colonial mentality that they know more and are better than everybody else. That is purely delusional*
From SEA asian, i do hope China continue the rise and become dominant power. The society is Confusian driven, and good thing is not aligned to any religion (secular). I believe global peace will be achieve when the dominant power is only interested with economy, trade, and sending UN peace keeper force.
At about 1:21:00, other gentlemen suddenly became friendly to China after Eric presented a firm, undisputable, and graceful retaliation. This tells the basic fact that knowledge is power, power is status, and Francis is bacon.
Mr. Eric Li should be a full time social scientist unlike "part time" as he claims, he would be doing a service to the world! Almost in every video he has something really provocative to offer! His argument on the question of legitimacy is just fantastic!!
The function of Democracy is to have elections to fulfill the individual's desire for equality and rights. But to choose a leader by an election only prove the campaign's success but not the chosen leader's ability to manage a country. It misses the point, so Democracy without modification is an outdated sub-standard system.
Exactly look at US elected one Orange Man in the last election with ego and may elect another dead man walking (Old man can't make few sentences put tougher also with Covid-19 kept in basements in case he got infected I suppose) then in UK elected a pure and simple unqualified fool now facing worst death rate out of Covid-19 out of the whole world as per Millions Population. Whereas the CCP has a system you must prove yourself you can govern a large province before becoming as a leader of the country. That shows the benefits to the most of the Chinese people their standard of living has gone several folds whereas US/UK standard of living going down. More and More people in US/UK living relying on foodbanks.
individual's desire VS Maximize social benefits= compromise compromise VS truth = contradiction if the contraiction would not be chanllenged, it become a self-reinforcement common sense
Good to have both Europe and China represented in the discussions. Refreshing and informative, I can see them working well together for a more peaceful and better world.
12:23 Applause for this senior lady. She really speaks truthes that down to the earth, ripping off some self-claimed liberal democratic world leader's mask.
I think all these old people from Europe and America they should be more concerned about there own country and the way it is ruled. China is on the right path the people are living a happy and prospering life. So please leave chian and think about yourself. See what is going on in USA.
One against eight and still seems like the eight is outmatched. Why? Because the eight came with no knowledge of facts but just headlines, rhetorics and self-righteous, they eally hadn't thought anything through. Eric came armed to the teeth with knowledge pertinent to the topics. It seemed like most of the time he was educating the other eight.
Thank you very much to upload this whole session of this forum. I have been waiting for it. It is very nice to know the whole conversation, not just piecemeal of segments. Good job very well done.
