Good enuff review but .. Wood is not of stable properties to perform in that application. Metal vibration noise and wear on the grinder itself is far from suitable. Has your lid actually broken, have you replaced the hinge assembly? Lid seemed to function during burr swap. Updated design as opposed to sleek and modern? Name them please I want to know what ones to compare this look with. Divisive? This is a smoke and mirrors descriptor. Everything can be considered such. Not one thing created will please everyone.
Thanks for the great overview! Upgrading from a Sette 270WI to this and excited to get back into single dosing for a fresher experience. I do 99% espresso, so the burr swap will be perfect when I have a guest that wants filter coffee, or on the off chance I get a bean I want to explore outside of the espresso environment. I realize the dual burr option may seem gimmicky for some, but I think I'm the "niche" customer that this is perfect for.
Really appreciate your reviews. When I’m getting serious about a potential espresso related purchase, I look to see if you’ve done a video on it. Thanks so much.
Great review. Particularly appreciate the comments vs the DF83. I have the Niche zero and love it, but am burr curious. My reservation with the Duo is the lack of 3rd party burr options. Would love to see a review of the new DF64V.
I actually like the styling. It's very classic "kitchen appliance" and looks like it _belongs_ in a kitchen next to a stand mixer and toaster instead of as a kooky instrument in a German electronic music video.
I have the zero and my daily driver is a piccolo so I enjoy the grinder. I do enjoy the occasional cold brew or v60 though. The burr swap would annoy me though, I'd rather a good allrounder such as the p64 or if I wanted 2, grab a hand grinder for filter. Also I think Niche are a bit late to the party now, should have released beginning of 2022 latest.
Thanks. I enjoyed your review. I recently ordered the niche duo (delivery in August) after pulling out of the Timemore 078s kickstarter. Everything I’ve seen makes me feel I made the right call.
Great review, I have the Zero and would look to get a flat burr version of that in a heartbeat. Unfortunately they are scarce and too pricey here in Australia at the moment, but I've got my eye on it. Would you choose this over its Timore Sculptor equivalent?
The Niche Duo and the DF83 are definitely up there, but if you are going to be purely dealing with light roasts I think IDEALLY you’d want something other than the stock burr sets
Nice one Matt, I just took the plunge. Even if you never did get the commission for my DE1 from John, I used your link for this one! Now just a 6-8 week wait.
@@LifestyleLab_ Just took delivery of the Duo - a wonderful step up in flavour separation and sweetness compared to the Zero. Very pleased with my upgrade!
Thanks for your review. Yet, i'm really interested in the Duo. 99% of the time I drink espresso but i'd like to make cold brew coffee. Do you think i need to buy the filter burr set?
While you’d possibly be better served with the filter set, for those times you make cold brew the espresso set will serve you perfectly fine due to how coarse grinding typically is for cold brew
I cannot really follow your conclusion. You said no one would change the burrs between drinks, in my opinion you are absolutely right. Furthermore you mentioned the popcorn effect, in my opinion a no-go for a single dose grinder that should work very precise. Last but not least, the DUO is bigger and more expensive. My clear decision would be to buy the Zero.
You can now buy the grinder with only one burrset, so the first point is now solved. Popcorning will always occur, this grinder just doesn’t have a cover (nothing to do with precision) The most important aspect is grind quality, and that is where the Duo will beat the Zero by a wide margin. Whether you’re using for filter or espresso.
I've been looking for a single dose grinder to brew filter coffee and either the Niche Zero or Duo seem to be top choices. The start of the video made me lean towards the Zero for less popcorning but you then said it's not good for filter coffee so I assume the Duo with filter burrs would be the best option for me?
I’d argue that the Lagom grinders (P64, P100) have an similar great (in case of the P100 arguably even better) workflow and have just as low retention.
While the P100 has a knocker, it has lower total retention than the Niche Zero while being large flat burrs. And exchange is virtually none. That's no easy feat. The Lagom Mini has no knocker and less total retention than the NZ as well.
With the greatest of respect, the lid is not made of plastic and the hinges are not weak! The lid is polycarbonate, the same material police riot shields are made of and have you ever actually heard of a hinge breaking. Having been testing the Duo since October last year, I did not find pop corning to be an issue. Yes, it does happen (a little) but so what?
As an engineer I absolutely appreciate that not all plastics are created equal. However, what I was referring to is the FEEL of the lid, and that the experience does not match the price point in my opinion :)
I make pour over during the week, and only make espresso on the weekends when I have the time. Would the duo be a good choice for someone like me? Other option is the Df64 variable for both or Ode gen 2 for filter, and maybe the new sk40 conical for espresso only. Thanks, and keep up the great videos.
I think that your use case does make sense for the Duo. Take a good look at the real time example of changing the burrs I did, and just be honest with yourself if that’s something you’re willing to do twice a week. If it is, then I think this is the unicorn grinder for you :) the changeover really is impressive. After filming this video, I popped the espresso burrs back in, put it back to the grind setting I had previously, and my shot came out perfectly first try despite messing around with the grinder in studio for a week
I have the Zero and I like it. Is it worth upgrading? If I upgrade, I’ll just buy it with the espresso burrs, because my the drinks I usually make are espresso, cappuccino and americano. If I ever try making a pour over I’ll just use the espresso burrs
Don’t upgrade just for the sake of upgrading if you’re happy with your setup. But objectively, yes, the Duo does have better grind quality and can produce better shots
@@LifestyleLab_ How does this comment age, with Hoffmans comparison of particle size distribution between the zero and duo espresso burr essentially saying they grind the same, and he could not even pick apart a difference in a shot pulled from either one.
It gives a good demonstration of the subjectivity of A/B tasting and testing. I VERY much stand by my results in this video, and I'm not the only reviewer who was surprised by Hoffmanns results stating he found little difference.
That +/- 0.2g is wholly dependant on your air humidity and how hard you tip- and bang it back down to knock out the leftovers. Also +1 to up the framerate. 24 is way too low these days. Feels like watching a slideshow
What’s the relationship between humidity and retention? More humidity = more retention? Or lower humidity = more static = more retention? I live in a very dry area so I’m curious.
@@grahamhawes7089 Where I live the humidity is really low so the static gets pretty bad. I can imagine it's the same on the other end too, though. That if the air humidity is really high there could also be more retention. Anyway, this is nitpicking. If I lost my Zero tomorrow, I would buy another one, no hesitation 😊
I'm currently looking to buy a good coffee grinder. I don't make filter coffee, I only need it for espresso. If the (currently £100) difference is not an issue, would you pick the duo over the zero?
I've always wondered why some reviewers and user get near zero retention from the Niche while others have to drop the lid/tap the top/rock the grinder to get up to 0.5g of grinds out. Being spot on and missing 0.5g is DRASTICALLY different, and it makes you wonder about Niche's manufacturing tolerances~~~
And kudos to you for being the only one that's willing to point out the fact that changing burrs between drinks on a daily basis is unrealistic, a point other reviewers either didn't grasp or, more likely, weren't willing to discuss.
This confuses me a bit too, but I have genuinely never had a dose be more than 0.2g more or less than what I’ve put in. Except for the first one or two after cleaning. With or without RDT.
@@persianwingmanFor filter, it will be a pretty minor difference, but perhaps still noticeable in comparative tasting if you know what you're looking for. In espresso, it will absolutely make a difference. Because the coffee-to-water ratio is so high, pretty much any small tweak in your recipe is going to manifest as a significant change.
@@bm-br3go You must have the taste buds of an angel if you think you can taste the difference of 0.5g of coffee 😅 Give it a go with a blind taste test and see for yourself.
Does the Niche stop automatically after you finish grinding or time control? Or would you have to stand next to it like a assembly line worker flipping switches up and down?
I'd say depends what king of espresso you enjoy. If you like a heavy body and chocolatey flavours for shots and milk drinks, I'd say it's not worth it if you already have a filter grinder. If you want to explore lighter brighter tasting espresso, it might be worth considering
I only drink espresso and was stuck between a kinu hand grinder vs niche .. I know we're comparing conical vs flat but at this level of my rabbit hole I was able to swallow the price point of a Kinu... What do you say? In for a penny and in for a pound and just go for the niche or kinu is as good as they say and will make me a very happy espresso drinker for few years?....
Hand grinding for espresso is great in theory, but most will get tired of it VERY quickly. It’s genuinely a lot of work, even on a tabletop grinder like the HG-1, let alone a handheld grinder. I would go with the Niche all day long for that reason alone.
Was about to say the same thing. I started with a jx-pro and then bought the eureka oro much later. Handgrinding for espresso is ok once in a while, but too much work if u're going to do it everyday. Single/double dose and roast levels becomes important factors, especially during dialling in. I normally use the jx for french press and oro for espresso, with the occasional espresso on jx for comparison or when i'm in the tinkering mood.
Hey im in the market for one of these 2 grinders. im not sure if I should just go for the duo and pay a little extra or if its not even that worth it. I have a brief grasp on the flavour profiles but typically i like medium roasts and chocolatey creamy bodies. What would be your suggestion out of the 2 grinders?
If you have any interest at all in brewing methods outside of espresso, then go with the duo. The grinding quality is superior all around. With that being said, if your budget is very tight and you do just like darker richer espressos then you will be happy with the niche zero
Thanks for the prompt response. I'm almost an espresso maximalist so no intention for other brewing methods. I just want to be able to brew the "best" espresso@@LifestyleLab_
Absolutely, the original is still a fantastic grinder, especially if you’re using it primarily for milk drinks where you’re not as concerned about have perfect “clarity and flavour separation” in the shot itself because it’s being mixed in with milk
Thank you. Getting the Profitec Go and your channel was helpful in this regard. For milk based drinks Niche Zero vs Solo DF64 Gen 2 Grinder what would be your preference (100 GBP difference here in London) @@LifestyleLab_
How much is the customs charge when it enter the USA? Is it a pain in the ass yo get out of customs? This is the only reason im not sure about buyi g it and both burrs sets
@@LifestyleLab_ok I will re-visit the web page to have a look thanks alot for the info. I enjoy your no nonsense reveiws and the way you say all aspects of the product and say whether you like it or not. Thanks
I heard the motor of the Duo is not very powerful like the DF83 for instance. And I know that installing SSP burrs will require more power from the motor. So just wondering if it’s going to affect the grinder performance?
There is a huge difference in torque on a direct drive motor and a reduced gear driven grinder, I think that’s why the duo don’t have any problems even if it has less power.
Much of the Stile's price would come down to the fact that it's for commercial use as well. For consumer, there are much better grinder options in that price range
@@LifestyleLab_ Many thanks for your prompt reply. Could you list a few of the better grinder options in order of your preference? I have a Barista Pro with a single dose hopper/bellow and although the inbuilt grinder has done a pretty good job overall and has been a good learning experience for me, it does ultimately lack grind consistency shot to shot and is quite loud in operation. I'm now wanting to improve my espresso and work flow with a more capable, grind consistent and quieter grinder for the long term. I only do espresso and prefer a more full bodied textured espresso with a little clarity and I use medium - dark roasted beans. This is where I thought the "Stile" might shine with it's lower 1200rpm in comparison to the higher rpm Eureka Magnifico and XL although I know that the type of flat burr has a big role to play. Another of my initial choices is the Niche Zero but very expensive here in Australia which also leeds me to my indecision between Conical vs Flat for my preferred espresso taste profile? I'd really appreciate your feedback. Thanks.
I think that looking at the Niche Duo or DF83 are excellent choices for single dosing. For hopper-fed, the Eureka Specialita / Magnifico or Mahlkonig X54
"Niche" could have sold thousands of units more if the thing would look modern with a simple timeless design. Design is the biggest downside and the speed is also way too slow.
I’ve heard very strong opinions on both sides. As always, aesthetics are very divisive, but I’ve heard an equal number of people say they bought it JUST because of the looks
This feels like a Niche paid advertising. Would have loved if you would have addressed some of the cons (impossible that a nearly 1000 dollar grinder has only popcorn effect as a con.
@@LifestyleLab_ so other than pocorning you have NO other issues??? Just want to be sure, some people mention retention and poor customer support stateside. I didn’t mean to come off like a dick although reading my comment I guess I did 😂 it’s just that deciding on the grinder has been a project. I swear I got my smoker easier (and that was a soul searching process within itself). For a 500-700 dollar budget, espresso lover, what grinder or brand would you recommend? I was zeroing in on eureka and now I’m not sure 🤔
@mannyr8795 personally I have gotten PERFECT single dosing from both of my Niche grinders. Other downside I mentioned and standby is the lid. It feels cheap and is loud opening and closing. Not matching the overall price point of the grinder. So biggest general complaints: - Dated design - Cheap Lid - WAY more messy than the zero due to popcorning
@@LifestyleLab_ so any other grinder you recommend for someone like me? 500-700 budget, espresso lover (don’t care for switching to pour over grinds). I was looking at the eureka zero vs the oro mignon… Help 😂
Its totally false that the niche doesnt require a bellows, and its frustrating that no mainstream reviews mention the reality. I own a niche zero, and can tell you that smashing the plastic lid down numerous times after grinding is an essential part of the "perfect workflow" to fall into the 0.1-0.2g retention range. At that point, a bellows would actually be a quieter and less abrasive solution...
That has never been remotely essential on either of my grinders. If it were, I would mention it. Perhaps time for a grinder cleaning?? I turn the grinder on, turn it off, and weigh the output. These IS still exchange with this grinder (as mentioned), but the dose in vs yield out has always been within honestly 0.1g without fail and without any grinder beating
Do you use rdt? When I forget to Rdt with my zero, I have more retention just as you describe. But with Rdt I do not need to knock the grinder to get everything out.
Almost every time I take the cup, I find a small amount of ground coffee that felt inside. I agree that closing the lid several times make some ground coffee fall. However that's not critical as it seems consistent, so I don't bother doing it. The first step of my workflow is just to dump the small amount of ground coffee that felt inside the cup
i really dont understand why people keep saying workflow... u turn it on, it grinds beans... if it's too course or fine, you change it... people who make coffee must be a bunch of morons that it needs some kind of workflow to operate a grinder
Thanks for the rudely presented insight Peter… The process can vary a lot actually. For example, are you using a hopper fed machine that grinds by time? Are you single dosing? Do you need to use bellows or a knocker to get out all the coffee? Do you grind from a hopper fed machine and then weight the portafilter after and add/subtract coffee to each your desired dose?
@@LifestyleLab_ it's all the same workflow doesn't matter which machine you use for single dose... step 1: you weight you bean, RDT step 2: you pour into the grinder machine step 3: you flip the switch step 4: you use hopper, knocker, bello whatever to take out the grinds that are stuck. step 5: you turn off your grider Doesn't matter which grinder you choose. For a single dose, it the same steps, same workflow. If you make a big deal of fine tuning your grind setting or whether it's bellos or kocker, I can't help you and I can only tell that you're a really high maintenance person.
@@LifestyleLab_ It's the same workflow whichever machine you choose. The only thing matters is that if it makes that difference and makes your coffee taste a lot better than others
@@LifestyleLab_ that extra minute isn't anything extra, that is indeed part of my steps. I would do that whether it is a single dose grinder or any other grinder with a hopper. got it??? Regardless of which grinder, my "workflow" is the same!
The cinematic in between shots are amazing, really gorgeous. It's just the way you tend to move a lot when you talk your hands look very choppy. You sound like the game of thrones editor about that night time scene "it's not dark on my monitor" lmao. Good video overall, it's just that it can be much less distracting at 30 fps or more.
@@snapphanen Nah mate, this is completely a "you" issue. no chopping or harshness here. dont blame this guy for your shitty monitor/pc. Also just dont be weirdo in general lol. complaining about frame rate on a grinder review. jesus mate haha.
