Nickelodeon Guts: The Trial of the Century - PART 1 - Game Grumps VS 

This video could've been a plot for civil war.

"I don't know its fucking Nickelodeon Guts on SNES" ".........OH!!!!!!!!"

"What the fuck do you mean what do i mean? Excuse- are you being serious?!?!" I think thats one of my favorite things to ever come out or Arin's mouth. The utter disbelief in his voice is fucking hilarious

I love how people are _still_ arguing.

I think we can all agree that this is the greatest argument ever argued

that's why arin never tells danny about special moves and shit

The absolute silence when writing their nicknames and the wacky music, followed by the slowly-rising laughter is such an amazing display of friendship i don't even know

if I were a debate teacher, this would be one of my class lessons.

I will never forget the epic battle of Himmler vs Buttox.

arin’s “OH” at 5:29 is so iconic to me

The irony is that Arin figured out how to land in the middle of the argument but didn't realise it.

The fact that the iconic argument happens literally the first minigame they play

This is a morality thought experiment between two different viewpoints on the notion of fairness.

I can't believe the Jon era of Game Grumps didn't even last a year

Top three controversial topics all Americans avoid to bring up in conversation: 1. Religion 2. Politics 3. Game Grumps vs. Nickelodeon Guts: Episode One

Jon was right because his not telling Arin about the mechanic made for a really funny episode. Case closed.

This was the greatest debate in grump history.

I'm with Jon here. If Arin wanted both to know the controls then they should have looked them up before starting the VS. To use his analogy it's like two boxer who don't know how to punch are thrown into the ring. They both initially just start rubbing and gyrating on eachother until one of them figures out how to move their arm in a punch-like motion. Is it his responsibility to then teach his opponent how to punch? Me no thinky so.

I just wanted to make sure people were still debating this lmao

Guarentee if danny was in this position he'd just go "oh press X to land"

Could you imagine if THIS episode was the reason they split.

Arin then: HOW IS IT FAIR WHEN YOU KNOW MORE THAN I DO!? Arin now: More points to me. It's a shame that you don't know how to play this game.

I think it boils down to this: Is learning what button to press and when while actively engaged in the competition part of the game itself, or is it part of learning the rules and controls before the game meaningfully begins? If it's the former, I would say Jon is right. In this case, the competition started as soon as they started sending inputs against each other. There was no tutorial phase intended to teach the players how to control their character, so one could argue figuring out the controls was intended to be part of the competition. If it's the latter, Arin is right. So, the game is immediately unfair to both, since it gave no effort to teach the basic controls. If you are thrown into baseball, and you don't know what the bases are for, then you aren't even playing the game. If Jon figures out what they're for through external validation but Arin doesn't, then Jon is playing and Arin isn't. Therefor, any wins Jon gets over Arin is more akin to winning when you're the only one who showed up. Arin is expecting a level of initial information sharing about basic controls until they can have a game that tests their ability to correctly time said controls. Is it fair to allow individually learning the controls through trial and error to be a part of the competition?

They both started with the same information. Jon figured out how to land back earlier than Arin. that does give Jon an advantage, but Jon earned that advantage.That doesn't make it unfair. One could even phrase it as Arin earned his disadvantage. So while technically Jon was correct, he probably should have just given up the information once Arin's attitude suffered so gravely. Competition is all well and good, but not if relationships suffer.

I wish Dan wasn't like the most conflict-avoiding person on this planet, so we could hope to see something similar in the future. (NOT saying I don't like him, but I wish he would use his "You're absolutely right" and "I love it" more sparingly and challenge Arin a bit more often)

I love how people are still debating this argument to this day.

1:23 foreshadowing "You're mad about it already, but it doesn't hurt yet..."

mom dad please stop fighting

this is why jon left, ego kicked him out over guts... it all makes sense now

Wow, Jon is really good at arguing his point. I hope in the future he would be able to defend himself in an argument without offending all of his fans

Holy shit, the chemistry is flying all over the place! I didn't even realize this after all these years. These two were like.. the best possible combination of youtubers that has ever been.

Arin's baseball analogy about third base is so good. i used that same analogy in real life last week and the dude i was debating with was like "oh, that actually makes a lot of sense"

It's 2015 and people are still picking sides/arguing over who was right in this video. Incredible.

I'm gonna vouch with Arin for this. The way I see it, there were two "games" going on. The first game is "Figure out the Controls" and the second was "The Actual Game". To play the second, you have to beat the first. The second game counts for points, and is based off skill. The first game does not matter and is worth nothing, and is based on trial, error and luck. Now, Jon beat the first game before Arin, meaning he could now play the second. Instead of helping Arin beat the first game, he decided to start the second game without him, getting a head start, and thus more points before Arin could, giving himself an advantage. At this point, even if Arin beat the first game on his own, he wouldn't be able to win anyway because Jon would always have more points. Thus, Arin lost because Jon didn't help him beat a game that didn't matter and was worth no points. Had Jon helped Arin beat the first game, they could have started the second game, the one that was worth points and actually mattered, equally. Jon is a butt.

Meanwhile in the future Arin will constantly do the exact same thing to Dan every versus.

this is like a Fox debate on economics

The whole argument about the landing; If I heard that argument coming from one of my neighbors in my building it would completely make my day.

I clearly remember Arin not telling Jon the controls in another VS so really...

After 9 years this is still one of the funniest videos on RU-vid

The fact that people are still commenting on and debating this warms my heart. Also, I already reached my conclusion years ago: Jon and Arin started with the same information. Jon figured out how to do something that Arin didn't. Since this was a versus - aka, an episode where they're actually competing - Jon is not obligated to tell Arin of info he discovers himself. However, that doesn't mean it's the _friendliest_ thing to do. Not helping your opponent in a competition is expected and you shouldn't fault someone for it, while helping them is exceptional and good sportsmanship. Basically, Jon's decision to not share info was acceptable and fair, but it wasn't good sportsmanship. And conversely, Arin's rage was very unsportsmanlike, but also understandable.

Okay so here's the thing. In literally every other session of Grumps VS, when playing a new game, the two of them take time to figure out the controls. In fighting games if one of them asks what the block or throw button is, the other will tell them. In quiz games where you have to buzz in, if one asks HOW to buzz in, the other will tell them. While there is usually an element of individual exploration and experimentation, there's also usually a tacit understanding that more fun can be had if they both understand the game and are playing at least something approaching their best. By refusing to share knowledge with Arin, Jon explicitly changed the dynamic in an unnecessarily competitive way. I won't say Jon was 'wrong' not to tell Arin how to play the game, but Arin WAS completely justified in his anger given that Jon rather abruptly changed the entire atmosphere from meaningless friendly fun to something actually competitive with absolutely no forewarning at all.

Ego in Sequeltitties: The game shouldn't teach me how to play, I should understand it. Ego in this: WAHHHH I DON't KNOW HOW TO PLAAAAY

this video is almost 3 years old and people are still discussing it. amazing

Why does any of this matter anymore? This isn't a discussion about life. It's fucking Guts.

Nah, I'm with Jon on this. They both went in knowing nothing about the game, and Jon figured it out quicker. Perfectly fair, in my opinion. But it was the first rift between the Grumps. Oh, it seemed harmless then, but resentment festered, and a breakup was nigh.

"Gotta Under Trust Sampson" still gets me everytime

I think the greatest irony of all that was, he figured it out in the end, but he didn't notice.

I'm gonna have to side with Grant Kirkhope on this one.

One year and the arguments still rage on to this day.

Someone has to make this argument animated, but with the setting taking place in court.

Yeah I'm going with Jon on this one- "Jon is a BUTT" Well now I don't know what to think.

If it hadn't been for me binge watching gamegrumps versus lately, I wouldn't have realized that Arin kind of does the same thing to Jon on I think the Godzilla game. Just not telling him how to use moves. So after all this time of taking Arin's side on this one, I might have to give it to Jon just for payback. Jon just didn't make a fuss about it when Arin did it to him.

HOW IS IT NOT THE FUCKING SAME

whats the 3rd base mean

Screw Hillary vs Trump, THIS is a true debate.

holy fuck my lungs

Final answer on this argument: Nearly every GG Vs episode until now, Arin and Jon give each other tips constantly. Refer to any of the fighting games. What you think is right is irrelevant; Jon suddenly broke with precedent for how they play together, and then tried to paint the request for information as unfair on Arin's part. When Arin got mad about that, Jon actually backpedaled on that logic, you'll notice, saying instead that it wouldn't have been to his "strategic advantage" go share information. Which is to say that sharing information would have destroyed his advantage. But because that advantage is maintained only by violating Jon and Arin's long-standing convention that they freely give each other tips, its an ill-gotten gain. So there you have it. You can stop arguing about it now.

Jon: YOU'RE SO MAD!! You're so mad over Nickelodeon Guts, it's the one that------ Arin: I'm not mad at Nickelodeon Guts, I'm mad at you! That part is still hilarious.

Here's the thing. I may have said this before but whatever. If neither Jon nor Arin knew how to play before starting the minigame, and Jon figured it out mid-game, that then becomes part of the skill involved in winning. If Jon can figure it out, why can't Arin? And if he can't, fine, but that makes him objectively worse at doing the thing. Which means of course he's going to lose.

I would agree with Jon if in the Space Jam episode Arin didn't tell him the controls when he asked how to play the game 2/10, Jon

Arin: "How do you land back?.." And so it begins...

people are still posting arguments? god bless this video

7 years later, the United Nations have yet to come to a conclusion on The Guts Incident

And this marks the one anniversary of arin getting the maddest he's ever been on game grumps.

I agree with Jon. Though I dont want to start a fight but Jon learned how to do it faster. Arin would have to learn too.

Jon is right. They both entered the completition with equal knowledge of the game and Jon figured out how to land on the platform before Arin did

Excuse- ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS?!"

Competition starts: Arin's Knowledge=0 Jon's Knowledge=0 During competition: Arin's Knowledge=0 Jon's Knowledge=1 Receiving information is unfairly advantageous if one receives it while the other has to figure it out. Jon figured it out and Arin wants to receive it. Jon's right, Arin's wrong.

Arin is right because Jon later admitted that Arin was right.

Jon is right competitively, Arin is right on a friendship level

I'd feel bad for Arin here hadn't Mario 3D World come around where Arin spent the whole series doing the same thing with Danny (Which wasn't really all that funny because of how rarely Dan called Arin out on it compared to the big fuss Arin made over Jon's shenanigans)

"...because this WILL air..." "Oh, of course it will." ...are there episodes that didn't air because the two Grumps fought during them (aside from Conker's Bad Fur Day)?

I really don't understand why Jon doesn't understand why he's wrong.

Context is important. If this was an international Nickelodeon Guts tournament then sucks to be Arin. But the context is that they are (were) 2 close friends playing a videogame together for fun and recording it for the internet to enjoy. Of course Jon wasn't obligated to tell Arin anything but it was a needlessly douchey thing to do to who is meant to be his friend. That being said Arin handled it totally wrong, guilt tripping Jon into feeling like an asshole would have been a better option than throwing a hissy fit.

As an Nickelodeon Guts EXPERT [23-year-old grown ass woman here] Jon is the winner. In Guts, half the episodes were kids fucking up because they couldn't get the hang of something. There were the kids who got the timing or the maneuver or something, but there was always that one kid who was dangling in a harness, swinging a bat, swimming in a circle, or just generally being a piece of human garbage because they couldn't figure it out. Subsequently they get the least points. Jon figured out how to do it, which is something Arin easily could have done himself. Arin 1) had just as much opportunity to figure it out 2) probably could have figured it out in all the time he spent complaining about it and 3) arguably was a bad sport spending the episode arguing when he could have played along and just made fun of a stupid game But oblivion is inevitable and we're all going to die, does it really matter?

Jon won't tell Arin how to play because it will "give arin an advantage", but jon has an advantage by knowing…lol

Honestly, you're both right. It was an even playing field already, Jon knew as much as Arin could have, and just found it out sooner. But it's more 'honorable' and such, that the opponent know the same rules of the game as you, otherwise it's not honestly or morally fair..

I feel I have been both of them in different times in my life

"It could have been Nickelodeon Butts for all I care!" -Arin Hanson, 2013 But I do agree with Arin XD

It's been almost two years, and people are still discussing it. It truly is the trial of the century.

This is still the funniest Grumps so far.

Im with Jon on this one. If both parties had the same amount of playtime on a game but one figured it out faster than the other, than why should I have to show you how to do something?

Arin confirmed Marxist.

What's weird is what Jon is doing to Arin is EXACTLY what Arin is doing to Danny but Arin teases Danny about it :/

Ah, I miss the old grump coughing fits

I like how this episode starts with talking about stubbing your toes and just transforms into the biggest argument ever

That mini game was a competition about who can execute an action successfully more consistently; not about who can learn *how* to execute the actions first. What competition is explicitly designed to be about learning how to participate for the very first experience, it would never be played again afterwards, duuuuuuuuuh.

I hate to be that guy, but I see where both of them are coming from with the landing argument. I can totally see why Arin thought it was unfair that Jon wouldn't share that little bit of game-making information with him, but I also get why Jon thought it would be more fair if Arin figured it out for himself like he did. In any case, what an episode.

Jon is right in this argument. They both had zero advantage going in and he learned to adapt.

Jon and Arin playing Street Fighter: Arin- "Jon, how do you do special moves?" Jon says "I don't know." while throwing fireballs.

Jon is absolutely right HOWEVER its pretty shady that you wouldnt tell your friend how to play on top of the fact that its just a casual match its one thing if this was EVO and it was 2 competitors but like come on also that being said, looking back its really easy to sense how Jon is just doing this to get a reaction for da funnies

I don't care who was right or wrong. That was one of the funniest freaking things I've heard on this channel.

i'm with arin on this. its only good sportsmanship to tell your opponent how to play if they dont know, regardless of how long either of you has been playing.

I agree with Arin here. Jon probably thought it wasn't a big deal and was having a laugh, but to Arin (and to me) it's bad sportsmanship not to tell your opponent how to play.

Welp guess i landed here on the EXACT 10th year anniversery

I'm on Jon's side. Since Jon figured it out by himself, he has the right to decide if he should tell Arin. Yeah, in a way Jon has an advantage, but it's more in the sense of skill rather than cheating. Like, if an Olympic Champion marathon runner was in a race with an average person, obviously the champion would have an advantage because he trained to do this stuff when the average person was focusing other things besides racing. But then there is another race where instead two average people competed, but one of them took some performance enhancing drugs to do better. This race is unfair because it wasn't a test of skill, but rather a test of drug usage. The only reason the situation in the actual video would be unfair is if Jon read about the game before Arin did.

omg people are still arguing about this?

Seriously, why is there no animated of 'Jon's a BUTT!' ?

The one time Arin wants to learn how to play a game is when it's a competition.

Dan: "Wow, I'm really excited to be joining Game Grumps, Arin, this is a really amazing opportunity." Arin: "Great to have you Dan. I guess I should start off by telling you my one rule...." Dan: "Sure, what's that?" Arin: "If we're ever playing a game and you know something I don't.... you FUCKING TELL ME! OR I'LL KICK YOU TO THE CURB JUST LIKE JON!"