I'm pretty optimistic about Nikon buying RED. I view it as a huge win for both companies, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts. Did I miss anything? Could this be a huge mistake?
This is a huge win for both companies. An interesting camera to come from this would be the Nikon Z8R[ED]. Add the Red codecs to the Z9/Z8/Zf/Z6III would also be huge. RED getting access to Nikon's resources will help them, especially software development. Even though Nikon is so much smaller than Sony, I expect that their SD department staff size is bigger than RED's entire company. It makes much more sense for Nikon to require the switch from the RF to Z mount than to continue using a direct competitor's mount.
@@UnconventionalReasoning nikon is smaller that Sony group of companies, but not Nikon itself. I mean nikon is not 10, 20 X smaller. Because Sony group include department that are much much bigger than Sony imaging. And those Sony branches like the PlayStation, have other bigger fish to deal with like Microsoft XBox. Nikon itself forms part of the biggest kieretsu I'm Japan.
@@danielvilliers612 While PlayStation is a separate division of Sony, if they share technology and software, that is a significant win for Sony imaging. One of the biggest challenges for video games is 3D rendering, and autofocus requires the reverse of that. The reverse is always harder, but being exceptionally good at the forward action can only help to get better at the reverse action.
@@UnconventionalReasoning Agreed. Yes Nikon is a smaller company than Sony, but I think Nikon has in mind evolving to developing their sensors in-house and this acquisition may help with this moving forward…
I think that Red would benefit from a Z mount - hear me out. i have reasons for my blasphemous take. 1. Flange distance is a very important part of why mirrorless cameras are great for adapting older lenses. Flange distance is the measure from where the mount is compared to the sensor. This distance was highly reduced when going from DSLRs to mirrorless because the mirror was taking up so much space. Taking out the mirror means that they could either leave that space empty, or reduce the flange distance - now we know they opted for the latter. for reference Nikon F mount had 46.5mm while the Nikon Z has a 16mm flange distance. for reference: Sony E is 18mm; Canon is 20mm. We can add more flange distance by using extension tubes (or something similar) however we cannot go the other way. but that's only one of the measurements..... are you still reading? cool, grab some water and onto your seat. 2. the other very important measurement is the mount diameter. Nikon F mount had a diameter of 44mm which was increased to 55mm with the Z mount. the Sony E mount has a diameter of 46.1mm and Canon's RF has 54mm. a dimater can be reduced but cannot be expanded (think something like aperture blades making the opening smaller. *catches breath* so to recap, the Nikon Z mount has a shorter flange distance while also having a larger mount diameter/radius than Sony and Canon (we can also throw in the L mount into that for Jared Polin) What this means is that the mount itself can then be converted to either one of those mounts. There is already a product by MegaDap that converts Sony E to Nikon Z while keeping the autofocus.(ETZ21 PRO) I would've thought adapting Sony lenses would be hard given the flange distance difference between the mounts to be 2mm but hell, they pulled it off. I think Nikon would want to become the native mount for cinema cameras for that reason. then once buy-in happens, the lenses designed for the shallow of a flange distance and that big of a diameter cannot be used on the E-mount nor the RF-mount. Nikon has been known for their amazing glass so i wouldn't be surprised if we see a Z-mount cine line with manual focus also RED makes sensors but that's a story for another day thank you for coming to my ted talk Sam
Absolutely, This is by no means a fully baked idea. It’s just something I noticed that might be interesting to point out. :) I’m not too familiar with red’s philosophy but how is it different from switching from EF to RF? I’m sure people bought a red at the tail end of EF support
@@samtaskie1079 Switching from EF to RF meant that the Canon adapter would allow seamless operation of the EF lenses. The Canon adapters are more effective than the Nikon ones because the EF lenses were already more "electronic". Staying within the brand is also always easier so having a Sigma MC-11 adapter on a Sony A7 camera to use EF lenses was less effective than the EF-to-RF adapter. What I'm talking about is that Nikon Z lenses cannot be adapted to the RF mount. Keeping the RF mount would break the 'filmmaker pathway" Nikon probably wants to create, from the Z6III/Z8/other future bodies to the RED cameras. Similar to someone starting with the A7IV and then going to the FX6. The lenses will stay with that user. Going from the Z6III to the RED Komodo X, the Nikon lenses are useless.
What's important to RED users is that you can adapt EF to Z lenses very well. And a added info to your complete post: there is an autofocus adapter for Fuji FX lenses on Nikon Z bodies. I think Sony E and Fuji X lenses are the best to adapt on Z mount and keep small size. The DSLR lenses add some bulk and (for me) only make sense with long lenses where some centimeters more are not a problem
I would bet that RED switches to the Z-mount. It makes little business sense for Nikon to produce a camera which *cannot* use its own lenses. An adapter could potentially be made to use RF lenses on a Z-mount. And it seems that most users of RED cameras are using PL or EF mount lenses anyway.
Adobe made a statement today in their forum regarding NRAW support in Premiere Pro, that they are halting development of NRAW support. The timing raises some flags, making me wonder if a new codec is headed to the Z8 and Z9.
@@AnthonyGugliotta Hopefully. Adobe hasn't said why they halted development, and I can't think of another reason why they would, especially if NRAW was sticking around.
Problem with influencers is that they do worry about things that they will never use. Ever since Nikon launched Z9, they are besting all other photo centric mirrorless camera, even for videos. Sony flagship Alpha 1, a $6500 camera has nowhere near video features compared to $3800 Nikon z8. Still influencers downplays Nikon. Only possible reason is fanboism nothing else. Let alone incredible glass from Nikon and all other full frame lens can also be adapted to only Nikon z system. What else you want.
Once a Nikon shooter, always a Nikon shooter. I dabbled in video in the analogue age & decided to jump back in in the last couple years. This makes the pathway into film seem a lot easier now.
Actually, in the cinema world the future is variable of interchangeable mounts. A philosophy Canon has already adoptees. And a necessary element if you want the cinema community to take you seriously.
I was pointing towards getting a Z9 in the next year anyway, & now I realize that if I wait just a tad longer I'll be looking at new tech adaptations that will make it possible before long to move up into film from video in the Nikon ecosystem at an affordable price point. That is absolutely HUGE. Terrific news for Nikon shooters.
4:12 I guessing you haven't met a of lot scientists and wildlife photographers, A lot of them shoot with Nikon Z cameras. Future REDs will have Z mounts for lens consistency and not have RED pay license fees or do partnerships just to get a lens mount, I'm already seeing Komodo owners their selling RF lenses and going back to Cine EF on several marketplaces and FB groups when the news hit. Also, Every cine camera OEMs already have a work around for RED patents to record RAW internally. that's why their unique selling point which is the compressed internal RAW no longer have the same value and now bought cheaply by NIKON.
Yep but natively they will amount to encourage people buy z kens. I see nikon coming out quite soon with z cine prime or even zoom lens. They already have exceptional z primes and zoom, that only need a rehousing. They will be both manual and having autofocus as now red will at a moment in time, Nikon very very good autofocus.
@@danielvilliers612 Very few use native RF lenses on the RED cameras, because Canon has kept the RF mount relatively closed, especially for autofocus. Producing Z cinema primes requires a little more work, because they will need to have consistent T-stops for a series of lenses. But Nikon is capable of doing this. Canon still has released only six of the eight RF cinema lenses in their intended series. Nobody else seems to make RF-mount cinema lenses, so switching mounts affects very few RED owners.
@UnconventionalReasoning perhaps the primes are already at constant Tstop. They already designed their z lens with video in mind as made sure to have minimum lens breathing. So they could also have planned that they are all same Tstop. Depending on how nikon deals with it, a series of Z primes and zoom could wave many towards them. When I mean deal, it is not about quality, as even the 1.8 primes are very very good, but the price. The average 1.8 primes are around 700-800 usd. If they price them aggressively, this could entice many to get a red camera.
Well i shoot sony and i think its a very big news , nikon getting into video just means more competition in the market intern means good cameras will get cheaper , and cheap cameras will get better
It won’t make sense for Sony or canon to buy red! Sony has Venice line and they make sensor. Canon make their own sensor as well I believe. My guess is Nikon perhaps want to make their own sensor. Not rely on Sony. Also Nikon doesn’t have cinema camera and most DP doesn’t use it. Even colorist never seen Nikon uses for any commercial usage. Arri is still number one regarding their film look and extremely reliable. I am excited by this. Hopefully they fix their noise issues cause color grading red is tricky in the shadows.
One more thing to add. If you look at all the Oscar winning to HBO show. Most are going back to film or use arri Alexa digital to film analog print. If you look the all the best picture nominees this year. Not single one is red one, Nikon, canon. You see 80% arri, panavision, imax and Venice.
@@zoneVgroupwhat people don't understand is that Nikon doesn't even need RED to be profitable. They just need it as a badge of honor as the nikon name will be associated with a brand thar even if it is not in thd absolute top of the line production, still has some presence in the wider film, adds, doc Market. They will also bring some best build quality and reliability that reds suffers from.
@@russellwright9961 yea I am excited for this new prospect. I hope Nikon can fix red software. It’s buggy and sometimes causes problems on set. Now I have to say red one is number one when it comes to music video although high budget are almost going to film now and RU-vidr. Canon is the master of documentary film making. Although fx6 and fx3 is coming close for it. I hope Nikon can bridge the gap for consumer and cinema. Please Nikon make your cages/accessories not exclusive and make it open. That’s the biggest problem. Cinema needs PL mount and lots of accessories that been established long time. No need to fix something that is not broken. Canon tried for high end cinema and still most DP doesn’t use it.
Correction. RED only has a patent on the CONCEPT of internal compressed raw. Not the method or codec. Just the idea of it. That’s what makes it so dumb and industry inhibiting.
@@stanspb763to add further to the complexity of RED’s patent snafu, is that they showed the product a year before filing for the patent. Which apparently is enough to invalidate the patent. RED’s patent is like saying “shoes with a method of tightening it around your foot”. So anyone who makes a shoe with laces or Velcro would be in patent violation. It’s silly.
I think you are a bit on a slipery slope if you think red will support rf mount indefinitely. My guess it won't happen tomorrow, but you will get signals from the company, better not to invest too much in RF. Like for example next gen komodo coming out in PL, Z mount first and then after some times in RF mount. They didn't buy RED, to help Canon sell more lens.
You missed a valuable point. Why don't shooters want to shoot on Nikon? It has nothing to do with the product. It has to do with marketing and perception, not reality. Nikon never created a marketing image behind using their products for mid to high level productions. Buying RED is their intent on fixing this obvious future based development hole they created for themselves. Why they didn't compete with Canon on the outset is beyond anyone's guess, but this is probably the leap frog approach. So, will shooters be willing to use Nikon? Not for a while until the interweaving of the products comes to pass, or in essence a new RedNikon model is born.,
@@jakilahmoulien9070Nope! I am almost 20 years into Nikon, I believe I understand something about them. It is a matter of time until no official support for other lenses mounts. I would be unthinkable to spend billions to offer products with the competition mount or adapters. The current line of the REDs will be the last in this form.
@@adrianmoisei Several companies will offer low cost adaptors, a big advantage to the Z mount is how it can accommodate all brands with low cost adaptors.
Nikon is more than just cameras, they're into Imaging Products, Precision Equipment, Healthcare, Components, and Digital Manufacturing,and this is going to really hurt Canon and Sony. Only ARRI is in any position to compete with Nikon now on the Cinema level
@@russellwright9961 That is because Nikon does not pay influencers. A lot of money flowed to those influencers who bashed the Nikon mirrorless months before anyone saw a Z body.
Hi Anthony! I’m a bird photographer and I really enjoy watching your videos! I also post my photos here on RU-vid in short form! I’m a lumix shooter but I also have a canon T1i!
4:12 "Nobody really wants to shoot on them" NASA: Hold my Z9!!! NASA took Z9 on ISS and in 2026 will take Z9 for the upcoming Artemis III mission which will be used by the crew returning to the surface of the Moon.
@@davidgfisher in another comment @samtaskie1079 suggested that RED also manufactures sensors... Seeing that Nikon is heavily in to manufacturing, this might also be a valuable asset for them - the ability to manufacture their own sensors? This might be another blow to Sony long run.
@@davidgfisherI don’t know for a fact, but that’s the same as why Samsung built Apple chip. Sony built Nikon sensor with their specification. I don’t think Sony would want to get sued to hell by putting Nikon sensor that is patent by them inside Sony camera. lol. Same like car manufacturers. BMW sometimes built engine for other car company.
@@AbhinavYadav-zm7utnot even that as proven by the success of the Z9 z8. The thing is new sales doesn't mean necessarily new customer. What happened in thd case of the z9, that big chunk of pro and enthusiast market, waited from a true successor for the d6, d850 camera. Once it came out it outsold the A1 multiple times.
FACTS: RED sued Nikon 1 year ago. Nikon bought RED. Nikon has 22,000 employees and RED has 220. Nikon owns 100% of RED now. I try to provide a different side opinion here. I am not a DP or Director, but I know many end users do really care about what final product both companies could make, and many ppl are hoping for the good. I just try to think like a big company coz I am a business owner. If some small company sued you, you buy them, you now have full control of their technology and talents, while at the same time your own company is not doing so good, what would you do? And would you put efforts on the 220 ppl company you just bought while you need to pay 22,000 ppl salary every month? Think about you (Nikon) have been tortured by Canon and Sony for years in Japan, and now you bought the leading cinema company. Would you build out the best Nikon camera to beat Canon and Sony, win back more market share? Or you would allocate your resources into RED and build a better RED camera? You can also think about this decision-making as a board member of Nikon. Its nothing like DJI bought Hassleblad coz DJI need to use the branding of Hassleblad for their drone products, they need to keep Hasselblad a good branding. Nikon don't, they dont need to keep RED a good branding to make good Nikon Camera, they just need RED technology.
Here is why Nikon won't licence internal compressed RAW in the near future to competitors and why they had a real shot with their lawsuit against RED and coming to an agreement in contrary to Apple, Sony and others: Nikon had an entirely different lawsuit approach as shown in the video below. And they surely have tangible evidence for it, which other competitors don't have. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-__X25Fr2K_M.html BUT if Nikon had won the lawsuit instead of the joint dismissal and agreement with RED in 2023, RED would have lost their patent. Which wouldn't have been just a big loss for RED but a loss for Nikon too. Because not just Nikon would have benefitted from a "free" patent, even more so Nikon's competitors, who already have a good grasp in the video/cinema industry. So with their joint dismissal of the lawsuit and their agreement the important patent still stays intact. And now RED and Nikon can benefit from each other without other competitors benefitting from the patent.
In terms of corporate size, Canon is about 4-5 times the size of Nikon. Should conditions warrant, Canon could easily takeover Nikon in a merger or acquisition. Remember, the elephant in the room is Sony and that is who Canon is competing from a corporate POV.
Why is this even a consideration? Nikon is not for sale, Canon is not interested in buying them. Red is about 1-2% the size of Nikon, and it has something Nikon lacks and needs. Nikon does not have anything Canon lacks or needs.
Why are people so stupid. Nikon firms part of the biggest group of companies in Japan, bigger than Sony and Canon combined. Google mitsubishi keirersu, or just close your mouth to say stupid things.
If nikon bought red. Nikon doesn't want to include red raw to their camera beacause it hurt their cinema line up camera. Nikon and sony, Canon thier both is japanese company. All japanese company have very closed relationship. They will include raw to all thier highend cinema line up camera. canon and sony will give some money to Nikon as pattent fee. Not ban them all like Red
It seems to be a mistake to expect that Nikon will withhold RED's raw codecs when the goal is to build a filmmaker pipeline from the Z6III/Z8/Z9 up to the cinema line.
ok, go further. the reason its happening because Japanese gov pushes big japanese firms to spend money, or else... they will be overtaxed, refused loans and there is a bunch of new laws about it. so now, every japanese firm is rebuying its own stock and spends money. but Nikon decided to actually invest, well, Nikon is owned by a bank, so bank decided to invest through Nikon. because Nikon is owned by bankers, and not camera people, Nikon is and will suck at marketing. they have amazing designers, and crew that works on nikon cameras that is being pulled down by their top-guys, who only see the market numbers and have no idea what the camera market is actually are - thats why they always late. hopefully, and fingers crossed here, something will change... but oh boy, this change will come waaaaay later than everyone thinks :)
I still don't get why everyone is looking down at Nikon.. And yes, I have a nikon camera and this is a serious question I've been wondering since idk how long
Nikon had the best dslr ever...d850...and then mirrorless become a thing, and they were little behind in terms of AF and video...but nikon released z9, z8 and zf, and they solved those things...we are also waiting for nikon z6iii with better af and video...aaaand, maybe, more 3rd party lenses from sigma, tamron, etc...and then, nikon will be really good system. :)
Nikon uses Nikon sensors, using Sony Semiconductor Fab. The FAB and rest of Sony divisions do not share fab customer designs or they would lose all their customers. Red does not make their sensors either and the foundry has no right to sell them to anyone else.. Canon makes some of their sensors but use FABs for the rest. There are thousands of companies designing their own chips but only hundreds of fabs that grow the silicon.
Does that mean we can also make fun of RES users now that they technically are shooting on a “Nikon” camera? A camera manufactured by a company owned by Nikon. Technically speaking that makes them Nikon shooters too.
Unlikely. What's more probable is a standard Nikon mount that can switch to an interchangeable mounting system that can handle lenses from a variety of manufactures.
Nikon has to replace the RF mount with the Z mount so that Nikon's own lenses can be used on the cameras. RF lenses can still be adapted to the Z mount.
Nikon being lazy!..Why don't you build something from the ground up..and not just piggy backing off someone who already developed a frame and basically has everything done..all Nikon has to do is slap a logo on the RED bodies and what call it a day?..haha the argument of you get there when you get there..yes..but NIKON seemed to have taken the easy way out..and didn't do all the hard work into RnD and actually making something of their own..they just got a company and skipped all that..thats just lazy and shows how far behind they have been into this market and the mirrorless market..at least Sony makes their own sensors and sells it to Nikon, Fuji etc..or else Nikon would sill be messing around with DSLRS..At least Canon developed their own as well like Sony..not just buy an already established cinema camera..Im sure Sony could have easily bought RED as well..but they didn't..they made their own thing..
Unlike other companies Nikon has stuck to the photography business for over 100 years. Branching out into cinema is whole different business. They have way more resources than RED and could have entered the market on their own if they wanted. Of course, RED is more than just the tech but also an established name in Hollywood. The cinema industry doesn't know Nikon for cinema cameras hence why this purchase makes sense.
@@lbeetech Nikon has been changing over the past half-dozen years. Why does this introduce a significant new risk, one that causes worry rather than 'hope'?
Nikon will struggle to integrate Red over the next 4 or 5 years, and then sell what’s left to Canon or Sony. If I’m a cine sales manager for either Canon or Sony, this is the best news I’ve heard in several years. Red’s future is cloudy at best and over the next 18 months the other cine companies will bury Red. Who’s going to expand their investment in Red equipment now when there’s no way to know who you’re dealing with? It’s a lose-lose acquisition.
