Check out the final Niv-Mizzet decklist here: archidekt.com/decks/582352#Up... Check out EDHREC for more awesome recommendations! edhrec.com/commanders/niv-miz...
This video was AWESOME. This is EXACTLY the kind of deck-tech content I'm looking for. I have no interest in building Niv, but I love seeing the thought process behind each of the decisions. Seeing these decisions helps me know what kinds of decisions to make about future similar decks, as well as allows me to decide which decisions would best fit for the way that I want to play. So many of the deck-techs out there are "here is my deck, here is every card in it". I love that the full list is available in the comments, the visual list is available in the video (if you want to type it all out), but that we don't need to talk about every card. There is detail here but not overbearingly so, and the detail is placed where it belongs - in the decision making. I can look at a deck-list online so I don't need a video talking about what cards are in the deck, I want WHY the cards are there. Excellent job. Subscribed. Looking forward to more.
These videos are so awesome. Super helpful and informative/ and I for one have a tendency to have to many things going on in my decks. It was super helpful to narrow down one path. A direction I have not yet thought of. Please make more of these. You guys rock. And thanks for the help and information! Really is a game changer.
I suggest adding Sigil of Sleep. It’s a super Niv like card that may not be as infamous as the “infinite” with the curiosity combo, but it does allow for Niv to get rid of cards on the field without the need for expensive bounce spells. The card works with curiosity as well, meaning everyone’s board will return to their hand, really making sure you can win.
Awesome list here! I really enjoy the idea of “Dismiss Into Dream” in my Niv deck. Making opponents sac whatever niv targets, affectively getting around indestructible. It’s cute and I like it lol.
Great video! Can't wait to see more of these! I built a Niv deck after torbran came out love the draw a card lightning bolt! A card I think is under appreciated in Niv is pentad prism gets Niv out faster and helps with his clunky mana cost. Would love to see Giest of Saint traft get the upping the average treatment.
Great work I think that you actually made it a lot more solid than it was and kept it pretty budget. You should totally build your list and play it on one of the gameplay episodes I know you like graveyard decks but I bet you would have a lot of fun with this deck.
on the protection side of things, there are a handful of little cards I love, Dive Down particularly being one of them. A single blue to save our commander _and_ draw a card off his effect? beautiful.
Nice deck tech. I've been running a version of this for as long as I've been playing Commander. 10 years? When Parun was spoiled, I was simply ecstatic! Truly the best advice I can give is to not evaluate a card's merit based on whether Niv is in play. This is due his mana cost. You've stated this in the video but still included some cards I feel are a bit too situational. Are you really going to hold on to Curiosity for 6+ turns to have a shot to attach it to Niv, who might die to a simple Path to Exile? Draw doublers are truly the best thing you could slot in. Alhammaret's Archive and Teferi's Ageless Insight are auto includes in my eyes. You also could stand to include more instants and sorceries. I'm currently at 48, which is nearly 1 out of every 2 cards. I do think this is something to keep an eye on. You have quite a few, but running less creatures means cards like All is Dust, Evacuation, and Blasphemous Act become nearly one sided. These are some of the best board wipes in these colors, so I recommend building around them. You also have a lot of alt-win cards included which I think are unnecessary. My trusty old win-con is Inner Fire + Comet Storm and this has been enough of a back up to Niv's ability so far. No Phsycosis crawler, no Lab Maniac... I guess you could run these, but Niv's ability is so powerful, I really feel like these types of cards just dilute the deck. For those interested, here is a link to my decklist and primer on Parun: www.mtgnexus.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=23801
I run Parun as a low to the ground, go for any of the 3 combo pieces (curiosity, Ophidian eye) lots of 2mc and under mana rocks, shock lands, and about 20+ countermagic and 10+ card/selection along with 10+ removals. Basically lay low, choosing threats wisely, draw, ramp pass. Go for curiosity holding force of will or fierce guardianship.. then draw until glinthorn. Cast glinthorn, go to discard. hold countermagic.
@@jammin_jeremy5333 yeah that works. I'm personally not a fan of the combos because you likely aren't getting niv onto the field until at least turn 5. At which point with a draw multiplier you should be able to draw your library. The benefit I guess being that you don't need Niv to draw your library.
Hello, I run a Niv Mizzet deck but I have lot of problems to make him work as I want. Can u look it and give me advices may be? It would be very nice... www.magic-ville.com/fr/decks/showdeck.php?ref=846834
Nice job, I liked the format and the suggestions. I had a Niv Mizzet deck that orginally tried to do a bit of everything ... in the end, I went in a different direction than pure spellslinger (though instants still represent the higher % of cards after lands) and opted for a wizard tribal. Which maintains one of the key win-condition NM+Curiosity (LabMan and the Oracle happen to be wizards) and synergizes well with Niv, but it allows the deck to stay solid even when the commander is not on the field. It was a bit of a feel-bad moment to built the entirety of the strategy around Niv, then seeing him fall to some target removals or a wrath and at that point 8 or 10 CMC with RRRBBB in the cost became pretty much unplayable (so definitely a good plan having his Firemind incarnation in the 99). I agree with you that protecting him is the key to have any chance of winning.
Dude i have most of these cards just sitting around anyway!! a small bit in edh decks, but definitely have the room to wiggle stuff around an have a whole new deck. So thanks for the new deck lol! Also you are so adorable omgeez🔥 💗🔥
I’ve got a Niv-Mizzet deck that I’m in the midst of upgrading and this has given me a bunch of ideas. Now if you could do this with the rest of my Commanders...
I agree with the choice to leave out Basilisk Collar/Gorgon Flail. But Grafted Exoskeleton is an excellent equipment to include. It works with Guttersnipe, Electrostatic Field, etc, as well as Niv, and with all the low cost instant/sorceries it is easy to get all 3 opponents to 10 infect.
One card I would definitely consider is Glint-horn Buccaneer. Since you can't count on that Reliquary Tower staying on the board, you're gonna be discarding a ton of cards to get to 7 cards on your end step, and Glint-horn is killer here......especially with Torbran on the board. I've also tried Dragon Mage in the deck. He's very disruptive to other people's decks/hands while getting you tons of draw and discard. If Njv isn't out, Dragon Mage is still a decent blocker to protect you or help fish into your deck if you need cards.
It's nice to see that the only difference between your line of thought and mine on our current Niv decks is that my Group doesnt play 2card comboes, and I don't have 5-10$+ cards. Aside from that it's almost the same decks :D
Primal Wellspring is amazing in a Copy Combo version of Izzet Spellslinger. Combine with the spells that untap lands, it's amazing. Resolving multiple copies of Turnabout, frantic search, or even just Twiddle is just fun.
Teferi's Ageless Insight works wonders in this deck. I also added Horizon Stone, which turns floating mana into colorless (and you don't lose it when you pass phases) and Birgi to help with mana issues.
As a Niv-Mizzet player, nice suggestions. Bolt Bend and Stubborn Denial are excelent budget replacements for Deflecting Swat and Fierce Guardianship. I tried Talrand, Young Pyromancer and Psychosis Crawler in early brews of my deck and always were underwhelming. Cheap cantrips like Anticipate, Impulse, Supreme Will are very good too. Pull from Tomorrow is better than BSZ when you need to refill your hand.
I would also like to recommend Gadwick and The Royal Scions. Gadwick can either just be played for 3 mana to give you access to his awesome defensive ability to tap creatures or a late game sink where you just need to draw 3 or 4 extra cards. And the Scions come down early and help you dig through your deck and even you ever hit their ult you can lay down a massive beating on someone.
pyretic and desperate rituals help you filter into Niv-Mizzet and Torbran in a mostly blue deck. having played niv pretty much since he came out, you often have 3x blue, but because the deck skews so heavily blue, the 3x red can be difficult at times
Pretty good, Mr. Joseph! I have a suggestion, but it would mean cutting something similar to Torbran in order to maintain the CMC: Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion. It is just awesome, with or without Niv. Does everything the deck needs!
Honestly, I dont see why you'd ever run Dreadhorde Champion over the Eternal. As far as I can tell, the Eternal has way more ability to generate mana and doesn't rely on dealing damage himself, or having a ton of cards to discard. Seriously, let me know if I'm reading something wrong between the Nehebs
My play group plays aggro. So my Niv deck is adjusted slighty against creature trickery. I like your choices and arguments for cuts and must have cards.
Thank you so much for this video This is the type of information i need for building a commander deck... other then commander quarters wich is basicaly just the "budget" option from edhrec copied and pasted into a 10 minute video
I have Arjun the shifting flame in my list, doesn’t really do much without niv in play, but it allows you to see a lot of your deck and with niv out it’s a certified game ender
Thoughts on the cost reducers (Goblin Electromancer, Baral, Primal Amulet): I get what you mean by saying that these cards don't ramp most of the cards in the deck, but roll with me on this: The reason that these cards are better than talismans and signets due to the fact that they can "add" three or four mana in a turn. On the turns that you go off, you'll very often want to cast a bunch of instants and sorceries at once, so they can have a much larger payoff than you'd think at first (by the same token, if you had an artifact theme, a mana rock is better). Also the fact that electromancer and Baral are creatures is super important, since you can use them as sacrifice fodder to an edict effect or chumpblockers to preserve your life total (not to mention that Baral's second abilith will trigger Niv and let you ping something). Obviously in EDH you can afford to play whatever you prefer, but if we're looking for straight-up synergy I think they're way more on-theme. Awesome series though. Hope the Mimeoplasm episode comes out soon.
If one is looking to make a storm deck, kess, kykar, and kalimax are better commanders for it. Kess can play from the graveyard giving your spells a second go in the storm, plus black tutors and other kill pieces. Kalimax just doubles stuff himself helping you get the storm going sooner, but the big reason is green access to ramp. Ramp is supper strong for spell slinging. (Pro tip, if you have an early copy spell try to use it on your opponent's ramp spells. Ramping in Izzet is amazingly good.) Kykar likes to build up a large mana pool before going off. You can also get enchantment that protect you and remove stuff. Friend has a Kykar pump deck with things like Zata and Feather, lot of fun to see.
And this is why you have to be hyper focused when building Parun. There are simply better options most of the time if you're strategy isn't focused. Adding either green or black to these colors would be strictly more powerful. But this isn't a ramp deck or a tutor deck. It is a draw/control deck. Draw a TON of cards and counter everything.
Whirlpool Rider and Whirlpool Warrior. Low cost easy to play creatures with a reasonable floor of reseting your current hand if you dont' like it, and the roof of recycling your entire deck on the turn you've combo'ed. Goes well with the "one explosive turn" strategy, now instead of, say 80 cards worth of damage in your library, you get double, and then triple the amount. Dispell as an easy and cheap protective counterspell can save your commander, since most players will try to wait until you enchant him with curiosity to then remove him, to try and get a 2 for one at instant speed. Also, May seem silly, but Storm Herald can be a saving grace aswell, if an opponent happened to mill, wheel or counter your enchantments, Storm Herald can get it back from the graveyard for a turn, wich in most cases is all that you will need to be able to win anyways. Love and hate this deck. My playgroup get extra salty when i pick this one up, and i'm also a graveyard themed aggro player by nature, but i always wanted a combo/control deck to compete with other combo decks that fitted me, and this one is so easy to pull off, i feel bad for doing it sometimes, but i love it. Thanks for the great content, as always. Cheers from Brasil
I’ve always wanted to build a niv deck but someone in my playgroup already has one and he just moved so it might be a deck in the future however o did just upgrade my kalamax precon and slid niv in there so I hope it works
How about Leyline of Anticipation? Possibility of it being free and you can then play everything at instant speed, including Niv himself. That gives people a smaller window to interact with him when you deploy him, which is when you're most vulnerable as he costs a lot to cast and you want him out as soon as possible. It's not an instant or sorcery but I think it's a worthy include if you've already got one or you're willing to drop the cash. P.S. Price doesn't seem to be a consideration in the original list so it's weird that Blue Sun's Zenith is in it over Finale of Revelation. It costs less and it can give you no maximum hand size, is it really worth sacrificing those effects so you can shuffle it into your library?
Hmm, you know Leyline or Orrey might be a good include for this deck for the sheer potential of casting Niv at instant speed. You are absolutely right that this is the most vulnerable moment for the deck. I've resorted to using a lot of free counterspells to mitigate this problem, but Orrey and Leyline also allow you to cast wheels at instant speed which is super powerful.
I love my budget niv deck, though it sees little gameplay, as curiosity combo is often a bit questionable powerwise in my local meta Let's see what the suggestions will be Edit: i very much enjoy brazing buccaneer (the minotaur) over lab man. You cut reliquary tower and when you go off and it isn't enough, you drop him and dome for the rest. The added benefit? He can imitate niv mizzet in the curiosity combo, should you be able to get 8 cards in hand before eot. Also, pull from eternity >>> blue suns zenith, unless you go infinite to abuse the shuffle. Having to spend one mana less for drawing cards is huge. And one card to get you out of tight spots is important. I build niv in the idea of playing without niv and when i drop niv i want to win *soon* or it is pretty safe.
I don't like the curiousity combo really, the best win I ever had with Niv mizzet was psychic corrosion with thousand year storm out, I cast a blue suns zenith for 10 and copied it milling the other 3 players out for 40 cards each. Amazing! Put psychic corrosion in the deck!
Played a couple games with a Niv deck i just built and i already learned one important rule: don't cast Niv until you have enough mana for both him and a few blue for a counterspell on everyone elses turn. 😬
Im working on Kalamax spellslinger deck right now and was thinking of adding goblin electro mancer. how many cards does it need to affect before youd run it?
With that type of cost reducer, honestly about 40 percent of the spell slots should be effected by it in order for it to be playable. I say that, as the storm player in my play group
@@the_names_rob that sounds about right. But specifically that get reduced by it. Ponder, preordain, cards like counterspell or narsets reversal shouldnt count towards that. If it doesnt have a generic cost you shouldnt count it towards the cost reducer
Is that really how Polymorphist's Jest works? The damage from before the spell resolves kills the creature once its been shrunk/modified? That seems wrong
i made a niv deck without the combos parts, got no problem with dealing dmg, just mana rocks and counters and swings, no need to combo if the opponent cant play anything
you can still do graveyard stuff in Izzet, you just have to be creative and set your bar a little lower. I believe in you and your ability to lower the bar!
I actually don't play my Niv as a spellslinger deck, but an all in card draw deck... With about 30 creatures and it works well. You don't get the downside of a spellslinger deck, not having creatures while you only sling spells :D
Then your board wipes aren't one sided (aside from Cyclonic Rift).The issue is that Izzet has such a hard time with removal. You will be overrun unless you can repeatedly board wipe. All is Dust, Evacuation, and Blasphemous Act need to be one sided otherwise you lose card advantage. I think if you want to make a creature based Izzet deck that draws cards, The Locust God is a lot better. You can run things like Bident of Thassa.
@@rowankeltizar5961 that's true, if this is about optimization. But I built it that way because otherwise it was just to strong. And it still can be oppressive with a wheel and / or an engine card. But yes thx for the advise..
But Joey, you're putting wheels like Time Reversal and Midnight Clock in, which shuffle your graveyard into your library; that's counter productive with your Lab Man win con...!
I enjoyed the journey through the thinking process and seeing why cards were chosen or removed. However, I don't understand this logic... "Take Niv to the next level", then cut cards based on price? Deflecting swat and fierce guardianship come in precons for less than $40 a deck. This sounds like watering Niv down.
Meh, you can purchase upgrades as you get the funds. It's nice to have something that is relatively cheap to put together initially if you are building for the first time. Upgrades can come later. My niv deck is around 1200$ lol
I don't think I ever considered Torbran in Niv-Mizzet. Torbran is so synonymous with RDW that it just didn't register as a card you would include in a spellslinger deck.
Niv was fun when I had him, but it was only really fun for me. The combo was very telegraphed and bored down on my playgroup to the point of annnoyance because Niv did his thing again. Maybe it’s just my group’s disdain for combo, but two card combos from the command zone really didn’t gel well for my area.
I've played Niv for years and years an cut the infinite combos about 6 years ago. They are simply too clunky and situational to be competitively good in my eyes. It's almost always better to have a cheap draw spell so you have something to do in those early turns. Cut the infinites, and you will have a lot more fun!
Rowan Keltizar I’ll have to give him a revisit one day soon; currently running him in a Grixis reanimator/ flashback list that uses him as a primier reanimation target. Never unhappy to have him.
Polymorphist's only changed 1 opponents creatures, so it's likely not really worth if you can just run something like Blasphemous Act. Also Ojer Anoxil fucks with Niv.
What ive realized playing a niv deck, all the big creatures like crawler are completely trash. Its better to just stack up on as much ramp as possible, even bilbo is better, lannery, big score, unexpected windfall. The goal of the deck is to get niv on the board while also having a protection for it, and you need a lot of mana for that. Also spellskite is amazing for protecting him and isnt that expensive of a card.
I can't help but disagree with removing primal amulet. Yes the cost reduction is almost a non issue, but the repeatable copy is almost priceless. Simply don't copy your opt. Copy removal spells to get rid of 2 problems instead of 1. Copy mystic retrieval, both ways, and you recover 4 spells instead of 2. Copy a counter spell and your opponent needs to answer both. Copy a spell the untaps lands. copy molten psyche. I agree that your list is low on the kinds of spells that truly shine when copied. I also think it's a little heavy on draw spells and effects,though I could be wrong. This deck is well equipped to take full advantage of that draw, but I can't shake the feeling that there are more useful effects we could be taking advantage of. A side note; if you do run the token generators and find yourself with respectable storm counts, try haze of rage.
I know this video is a few years old, but lots of the criticism around this deck I am feeling seems to skirt around how genuinely high priority/kill on sight, and restrictive in cost Niv really is. Maybe commander has just optimzied massively since then. I think the shift to remove lands was correct, and focusing a bit more on wheel was also good. But ensuring you can gain some low power board presence to protect you for time is massively core. I have rarely, rarely EVER had Niv live a turn without being immediately destroyed in a competent pod. This requires a high focus on semi safe ramp and instant availability. I don't know, this decklist feels like it is balanced around a situation where niv just gets to stay up, this doesn't happen. There aren't enough counterspells, swiftfoot boots or lighting greaves you can use in time by average turn counts. you catch aggro evenly, but most pods will aim to take you out of the game as soon as possible. I don't see enough draw here to realstically average out a turn 6 or 7 win, and lots of these cards were sacrificed for less budget options in my view. I agree on dropping the blue pips in the cruve, it's absolutely correct. I don't know, so much of this seems like it doesn't actually cover practical scenarios around cutting your infinites or plays after your infinite might burn out, and that's half of mastering Niv in my opinion. Dizzy spell seems like another majorly missed opportunity if mystic tutor is getting maybe'd here. Maybe i'm just looking at this oddly. Prepared to be wrong here!
I agree you have a good reason for cutting the cost reducers, but to say they're reducing less than 1/5th of the deck, when probably about 30 out of 100 of those cards are lands, really isn't fair.
Quick question i'm not a expert at magic, but can't you crack Terramorphic expance to grab the reliquary tower ? seems like a easy and fast way to get infite hand size
