Before you buy or regrip your golf clubs, you need to watch this video. Find out why this one thing is so much more important than anyone tells you! Interested in a fitting, custom build, or repair. Contact us. adam@elitefitgolf.com
Such great information and something I haven’t really seen anyone address. It’s a whole new wrinkle now. Do you recommend in fittings to change the grip one way or the other is someone is in between flexes? Or is this a case of weight means more than flex?
I think it will probably be case by case. I started thinking about this topic because I've had clients come in complaining about terrible results with certain grips (usually too firm), and after simply changing them seeing much better results.
@EFGMC great test. Don't think I've seen anyone else do it 👍 I have bad finger pain everytime I play so now I'm thinking I need to go with Jumbo max grips. Probably the size is going to be just as important as the softness
Once the DS begins, it happens too quickly to "feel" anything in real time. ie whatever we feel in the 1/4 second from top of BS to Impact is after the fact. our body will have moved on from what caused that feel. That being the case, in our mind we can ignore all those "feels" once the DS begins. This is a good thing. Simply focus on the dominant hand at top of BS, when there is time for a singular intention. "right palm facing the sky through impact".. and ignore all those feels.
A jumbo grip of the same material will feel softer and not flex the shaft as much as a standard grip of the same material, resulting in a lower cpm. However, if you tend to release the club early, a softer grip has should help square up the club face at impact because it will delay the release of the shaft.
My experience is more R flex players will prefer to match up with a softer grip. Obviously everyone is different and if you can try a couple different firmnesses and see what feels best, that would be the way to do it.
Fantastic. I moved from Stiff to Regular during a fitting in October. Clubs arrived with the fairly softish grips I specified, and just never felt right…not like during the fitting. Switched 7iron to a grip similar to what the fitter had in studio, and boom! I’m with you: never even thought about this before.
I have played golf for 40+ years and this explains why I never change the grip type. I have tried softer grips like GP CP2 because I am getting older but immediately realize they change my sensation of the club and this explains that sensation.
This is VERY interesting! So if I am looking to be something like an R+ on the shaft, I could prob use R and add a firm grip to modify the frequency. For someone like me that is “between” flex (R/S). This would be a way to help tighten up the performance or at least the feel of the shaft. Really great information! Thank you for doing this video. 🎉
I think this illustrates the reason why measuring cpm's has fallen out of style. When a shaft is held firmly by a vise, its easy to see the difference between shafts. However, the human hand is much softer and the psi a hand can squeeze is far less than a vise, even with a shaft protecor. What is a ten cpm difference in a vice may result in a far less difference in a human hand. It would be diminishing returns (ie, less of a difference in cpm's) when swung by a person and is likely the reason why it hasn't had much impact on actually hitting a golf ball and why the concept is falling by the wayside.
Was considering moving from regular to stiff shafts but these makes me think I can just save some cash and regrip to a more firm grip! Awesome explanation!
This is why it is crazy they don't do grip fitting anywhere. It's the only physical contact you have with your club! Why is it not an integral part of a fitting.
Jumbo grips prevent me from working the ball & tapered grips prevent me from getting a solid grip on the club. Everything that's supposed to be game improvement does the opposite for me. I enjoy standard thin grips. My old driver had a cheap amazon grip on it that i performed the best with
The softer grip is likely reacting differently to the metal clamping force during the test. I suspect the effect of the much softer hand to grip contact would minimize the difference significantly. That being said, I greatly prefer a softer grip. Much less harsh.
Should have shown flight data. I don’t care how soft the grip is, 6.5 will fly differently than 6.0. I think you also confirmed how CPM has been disguarded as a fitting tool these days
I've got this planned for a upcoming video. Problem will be different people react differently to flex or perceived flex. Will need to get Keenan or maybe Mr. Shortgame to come in and provide some good ball striking data.
never would thought about it, and yet, it makes perfect sense. Now I understand than when I added 1 inch to my clubs and put those same harder (and heavier) grips, my clubs felt stiffer and heavy (both static weight and swing weight had increased a lot), so much less easier to swing than before the change
As an engineer and golfer, I take issue with how the test was conducted because nobody holds the golf club with just a vice grip mounted on the bench. I think you need to repeat the test using a clamping mechanism that more accurately replicates the way a human would hold the club
I've always liked softer grips ( when I played as a kid) didn't realise or had never noticed that the softness or hardness of a grip was a spec you could look up. I always liked those Swingrite Griprite rubber grips with the "V" pattern on them I recently started playing again 6 months ago after not playing at all for well over 25 years I literally just re-gripped my cheap Callaway x12 irons with some fake Golf Pride +4s. They do seem to have made the clubs feel stiffer but I thought I was imagining it. There's definitely more "Feel" when you shank one.
If someone on the course asks me about club frequency, I'm going to throw a handful of sand in their face and blame it on Planet Mercury being in a state of retrograde 😂
So many variables as midsize are heavier and tend not to close the club head as quick as std. I dont like the rough grips, wear the glove out to quick and dont feel nice when gloveless. Std tour 360s...partic on adjustable drivers...
Because my hands are bigger than average I had midsize grips on my Callaway Apex forged blades. Wasn't hitting them consistently. Was getting too much variability. Then decided to switch to GolfPride regular size softer grips but they are less tapered than standard. So it's thicker than regular on the lower hand(right). It was like hitting a whole different set of irons. More distance, consistency and I could work the ball either right or left. The proper grips make a significant difference.
I would think a less tapered grip would really equalize both hands and create more control ! It sort of makes sense ! On my swing now my right hand is becoming more and more dominant and I should try a less tapered grip with golf pride, if I could retain the same firmness ! Thanks
Hey AJ!!! Great video!! (As usual) A point of consideration on perceived flex and grips. The difference between grip weights from one style to the next can be negligible (2 grams) to significant (20 grams). Wouldn’t the adjusted swing weight of the club have a greater impact on the player’s ability to properly load the club than the firmness of the grip influencing flex? Thank you for all of your contributions!!!!
Weight, diameter, taper amount will all influence how the golfer swings the club. This video was just introducing something that no-one ever considered before (at least that I could find).
Not sure if this really has an impact in actual hitting. The reason the frequency drops with a softer grips is because it dampens the oscillation when held in an unmoving vice. When you really swing, you are holding it in your hands which are flexible so it doesn’t behave the same way.
I agree. I already hit my irons fairly high. I bought some softer golf Pride grips early 2023 to hopefully take it easy on the joints of hand, and let me tell you the ball flight was so much dramatically different- TOO HIGH. Like rocket spaceship high and more spin with mid irons. I had to go back to reg Golf Pride justbecause the squishiness as you referred to.. did so much to the flight. So I would recommend softer grips for ppl who struggle with getting the ball airborne.
I have always used Golf Pride Tour Velvet 360 on my woods and wedges and Golf Pride MCC+4 on my irons. Recently I put the Tour Velvet 360s on my irons and I like the softer feel. The Royal LinkTech and M-Taper 360 grips are the best budget grips out there.
How does one choose the right width grip, in other words, what is the proper size grip for any given golfer? The off the shelf club always comes with small or standard width grips. Thanks.
You can use different measurements or online grip sizing options but it really comes down to what feels right and comfortable in your particular hands. Best way is to actually test different sizes on a club.
This is completely false. In every sense of the word. An EI curve of a shaft doesn’t magically get altered by changing grips. A frequency machine is just measuring CPM. Adding another layer or dampening that clamp to shaft alters a test making the subject incorrect. This is horrible information that is completely false.
Ah Ha! Very, very interesting. Thanks for this AJ. I'm struggling to choose between two shafts in my new clubs - a 106g stiff or a 111g regular, so was considering soft-stepping the stiff. But with this info, maybe a simple change in grip choice could resolve my dilema. Cheers.
interesting test.. I wonder what the difference in grip weight has on these types of tests. I've seen some folks testing different Jumbomax grips as an example, and heavy grips would have some hitting shots thin and lighter grips causing chunkier strikes. Curious if you've tested similar grips of different weight or calibrated your test to account for it when testing grip firmness.
Fantastic content and no other club fitters or club makers or repair professionals have spoken of this subject as far as I have ever seen or heard. Great stuff, pal: from a small Somerville, MA golf shop. Cheers!
Makes sense why some didn’t like the firmer new decade mcc grip with build up tape on the bottom hand on a particular shaft, compared to the same exact shaft in a MCC plus 4, or even the much firmer z cord. I didn’t ever think much about it but it seems obvious now that you brought it to my attention. In my case the grip rubber in a plus 4 reducing the taper rather than the tape gave me more feel for the loading and unloading of the shaft. It seemed to make tempo and delivery changes from day to day and different ball flights easier to notice and correct vs The firmer grip
So basically in a fitting you could have a client that is almost in between needing a stiff an extra stiff. So you could put a firm grip and the stiff and achieve possibly that halfway point between a stiff and extra stiff? Vise versa with putting a soft grip on the extra stiff?
I have thought about this before from an energy transfer standpoint. I have considered "wouldn't a soft grip absorb some of the energy that I'm transferring to my club? Why would I want that?"
AJ, this just proves that fitters need to consider this grip variable when fitting clients, if not, they are not giving you the best fit possible. It’s already tough enough finding a good fitter you can trust who’s not trying to upsell you into some exotic shaft and other add ons, now you have to make sure you’re getting a “full and complete” fitting, which most of us don’t know what that is. It’s a shame that we’re at the mercy of fitters without knowledge. Cheers.
Full disclosure, I never considered this until I just started thinking about it in a light bulb moment. I have not done this with any of my fittings but now I am trying to figure out how to include this into the process.
Not only will you have to consider software or hard, but the different wt's of different size grips. I use a oversize grip that weighs more than undersize grip.
I think the useful path would be to consider that the grip enables you to make one shaft a stiffer in increments between two stiffness levels. If a player thinks the regular is too loose and the stiff is too stiff, the fitter can suggest trying the regular with a different grip to stiffen it up a bit. For some players, that could make the difference with going for one shaft or another. @@steviewonder2492
Good stuff The hands work as the vice,so the same club will feel and respond differently with respect to the size of the golfer’s hands. Shorter hands,more flexible, larger hands, stiffer feel. I learned this the hard way when the whole Brunswick cpm shaft measurement system came out. Clubs were being built with different clamp lengths giving different flexibility profiles for the same club. Brunswick was using a 2 1/2” clamp and others used 4 and 5” clamps. Hopefully some day soon, club fitting will be standardised to fit the golfer and not just sell a set of clubs.
I was fit into Titleist T200 irons with AMT RED stiff shafts and I had my set built with Golf Pride CP2 midsize grips. That combination was the perfect mix for the performance and feel that I was looking for in my new set.
Lol, I have a combo set of T200 long & mid irons and AP3 short irons all with AMT Red regular shafts & golf pride tour wrap grips. Just wondering, do you have a TSR2 driver and TS2 3 wood too??
TSR3 driver with Hzrdus stiff shafts, a TSI2 3 wood and a TSR3 7 wood; both with Tensei AV Blue stiff shafts. My 48, 54 and 60 wedges are Vokey. ALL with the CP2 midsized grips.
Lamkin UTX, the green ones I first saw on golfwrx last year or so, that's what I'm slowly switching to lately, like the green but those Lamkin could be little darker shade of green, lol. Tried GP tour velvet 360 white...felt nothing like tour velvet grips to me, kind of slick so off they went. Royal Linktech grips, not the cord version which is a bargain really for cord grips, feel okay, Lamkin crossline black on an older set of irons. For me it's how my hands respond to the texture, soft grips on a full swing and I feel like I actually lose some control of the club, my hands actually increase in grip pressure. Price of grips is also a factor, those UTX's aren't coming off for a while! I lIke some taper to the grip for my right hand....grips are such a personal preference aren't they.
Does switching from a regular grip to a midsize grip also result in a more firm flex? I know it further complicated because the heavier grip will change the club to a lighter swingweight. I have preferred a softer grip because I felt more “feel”.
Excellent video, never knew that! Not sure if it was already brought up but the other thing to be aware of is grip weight. They can vary by ~15g depending on size/type.
I have just viewed this video and wasn't aware of this potential problem. Prior to viewing this video I changed from golf pride tour velvet double wrap grip to golf pride oversize tour wrap grip. I haven't been to the range or golf course yet. The tour wrap seems to be a "softer" grip. Will there be a significant difference? I am a 79 year old 12 handicap. Thank you for your vey informative RU-vid video,
Those 2 grips at equal size are actually pretty close in firmness. The larger grip will be softer by comparison but the comfort from a larger grip will usually outweigh anything else for people who need the size.
First off, beginners cant tell anything about shaft loading and unloading. Second, r u pulling the shaft down at the same distance to create the frequency? If ur off a few degrees, it'll have an effect on the readings, rt?
Maybe a beginner can, maybe they just don't have an understanding of the sensation they get from the shaft. Either way, this video isn't a beginner only video or close to it. Frequency was checked multiple times with similar results.
If I understand this the grips feel will affect the shaft flex. The softer the grip the more flex in the shaft and the firmer the grip the stiffer the flex? The best videos on RU-vid about golf for the common man in the street.
It’s very small I guess it’s possible that fitters may trick this up in certain situations. I doubt the average joe would know that. Good video on this ❤
I'd have thought a thicker grip would squish more than a thin grip... I can squeeze a thick slice of bread more than I can squeeze a thin slice. Maybe 🤷♂️
Everytime i get a bowling ball drilled, the driller makes a comment on the size of my hands. 🤣 More than likely i could use larger grips on my clubs. I do tend to get a weak grip sometimes. Maybe larger grips would give more contact surface area with hand to grip.
@@vicgeier3482from center of finger holes to center of thumb, my span is just short of 6 inches on my layout. I've never used thicker grips on clubs. I may have to experiment.
Very informative video, I currently play PX 6.5 but previously played PX 6.0 shafts so I am fully aware of the difference in stiffness between them, I have played Tour Velvet Plus4 grips for a few years but have thought about testing the new Lamkin UT+ grips so if you have hit both of these grips how do they compare in firmness?
Nice video. This way of measuring is not completely accurate. Normally, the hands have a wider grip than the vise, and the hands are also much softer. There will probably be differences between soft and hard grip, but much less than what you show here.
This seems like fitter hocus pocus to me. We all know the ruler on the edge of a desk vibration. That vibration frequency is changed dramatically by simply moving the length of the ruler over the desk edge. Without confirming identical shaft length, weight and point of contact with the vice, this test demonstrates absolutely nothing. The frequency of vibration of a shaft can be changed by simply changing hand positions up and down the grip. Not something I think the average golfer needs to be concerned with.
That’s funny. I got fitted for some sub70 irons from Adam around 6 months ago. He never once mentioned this to me. Maybe this huge epiphany came to him after?!?!?
When you are testing the frequency over a minute the club is flexing hundreds of times and the grip is thus having an influence hundreds of times. When you swing a club it only flexes once and the grip only has an influence once. So isn’t the influence of the grip via your frequency test greatly exaggerated compared to the influence it actually has during a golf swing?
Everything we are talking about here is feel based. Why a golfer may like one shaft and not another can be simply from the change in that feel. This is showing that you can achieve the same change in feel from changing grip firmnesses.
The number of frequencies that were correlated seemed to suggest there was a change in how the shaft would flex while playing golf due to the type of grip, so thank you for clarifying that the type of grip changes the “feel” and not necessarily how a particular stiffness of shaft will perform.
That's due to the grip softness. The softer the grip the weaker the shaft will read on the frequency meter. The shaft does not change frequency. To be accurate then check without a grip. I used a frequency meter back in the 90's. Your just not getting the correct reading.
No one is thinking the shaft actually looses stiffness from the grip. The whole idea is the "give" in the grip mimics the give in the shaft so the feel can change because of it. This all arose from clients who complained about the way they were hitting the ball with certain grips.
Surely this means getting a Driver fitting for max distance / dispersion then ordering the clubs and choosing a grip afterwards could throw the figures off. Fitting sessions of over 1 hour don't give you the luxury of swapping grips and testing for different results.
I’m using a mid sized grip on my irons right now. I don’t like to feel vibration on miss hits when sticking the ball I am a 16 handicap golfer.What grip should I use, soft or firm grip.
Video 2 take off the grip and test. cut off the tip of the grip flush with the clamp. Would not expect the numbers to change Flex change coming from the grip contact and not the length of the grip?
I stumbled upon the soft grip theory by accident, I use jumbo grips on stiff flex graphite irons. Mainly to stop limb vibration. I use DRi-tech LT over size with 5 layers of masking tape plus 3 layers more on the lower to 2 layers plus grip tapes. Zero vibration great for home sim room golf. Even with a strike matt strip. My first reaction was the flight, spin looked fine, feel wasn't that of stiff shafts. I just never discussed with anyone as club set up is p[personal thing.
Great info . We had a Gem here in Virginia . Mickey Russel would use that machine and built some really great feeling clubs . I now have 2 sets of ZX5s one with pure , and one with golf pride . I’ve been asking qualified folks why one feels different . I think this demonstration showed the “ why behind the what “ .
Awesome information, I am a plus fore MCC golf pride guy. I also recently cut down my shafts for control. I was doing this with a fitter to see if a 44.5 inch driver shaft TSR2 11 degree was better than the Burner….it was but he mentioned my swing speed dropped to 92 MPH on my driver from 97 but we got the same distance … less height less spin and only 5 yards carry distance but 20 more roll with a PRO V X. I wonder if some that speed is my grip … shorter shaft more the grip can effect it ?
Another tool to use when fitting someone or tuning a set of irons. This seems to be as useful as Soft Stepping a set of irons by simply going to a " Softer " Grip..... WoW !!!
