Welp. I made a rookie mistake so you don't have to. I bought a vintage camper without a title - bill of sale only - and now I'm paying the price *literally*. How will the quiet title process go for me? Stay tuned to find out.
I have stories that would horify you. One couple bought a trailer on a bill of sale and then spent about $6k and 800 man hours restoring it. So finally they went to the DMV to have it titled. Well... When they showed the VIN that was on the frame it came back stolen. The camper was confiscated and then returned to the legal owner. Total loss. In NV the only way you will get a title without a title is buy purchasing a BOND title. And that basically means that if anyone can ever prove ownership, you lose. And you never really get a proper title for it making it hard to sell again. The safest thing to do is first know the laws in your state ahead of time. Next, if you buy a trailer without a title, get as much information on the people you buy it from as possible and verify that info. Have them sign a little piece of paper saying they will allow you to return the trailer for a full refund if you can't title it. Then go ahead and attempt to register it and get a title BEFORE investing any time or money in the trailer. This way everyone is covered against loss.
Yeah, I'm actually pretty mad at myself for just listening to the advice of one person at the DMV years ago and not actually following through and doing my homework properly. But hey, on the plus side I get to do everything the hard way, and everyone loves the content where you screw up right?! And I don't think I made as big of a point of it as I wanted in the video (I had to record this twice, 'cause my mic was off the first time because as we've established in this video, I'm a dummy) but yeah, the biggest risk is you could lose EVERYTHING! I don't think that's going to happen in this case, but there's a pit in my stomach worrying about it all the same.
I purchased an untitled motorcycle in the state of PA. Before I decided to work on it, I went to the state of PA and requested a title search. They were able to give me a name and the address of the title that was on the motorcycle. I did an internet search and the owner turned out to have small business in PA. I reached out them and they were willing to get a replacement title for me. I paid them $100 for their efforts. They were happy to hear that the old bike was going to be reused. I was glad I went through the process before I started to work on it.
I just discovered your channel and absolutely love your videos. You’ve got a great presentation style! I am planning a “vintage inspired” build, making a camper using these classic build techniques. Your videos have really helped me understand how they were structured so much better than any other content I am finding or than old camper plans. Looking forward to seeing more!
Thanks for the kind words and thanks for watching! I've been so busy lately I just haven't had a chance to work on the camper, but it will get done, and there will be more videos! Good luck with you project!
Oh my gosh, I love the way your Play Mor camper turned out!!! I have not purchased a camper yet but have been looking for a vintage one for about a year. I am in Southern Illinois though and Illinois is very strict about titles and registration. My mother in law works at a DMV so she has told me several of issues people have had which makes me really nervous to purchase one, so I have to make sure there is a good title before I buy.
Thanks! Yeah, I'm certainly going to approach any new purchases of vintage campers differently from now on! I think we'll be able to sort this one out though, and I'm not too worried about it.
I am just reading this a year after posting, and I also read your subsequent post where you finally got your tag and title. I share your pain! I inherited a 1947 Jeep from my parents’ estate. It was not running and had no brakes, and it was in otherwise pretty disgusting condition. My first inclination was to have someone dump it in a canyon, and I would wash my hands of it. I gave it some more thought, though, and decided to have it trucked to me 1500 miles away. I planned to restore it, and I knew from the beginning that it would never be worth what I put into it. I never even wondered about whether it had a tag or title. It didn’t, and the serial numbers had been removed by someone. One was lost due to a front end accident, and the other was unscrewed and maybe just tossed when someone decided to put a heater in it. My husband and I began the frame off restoration, but after about a year, we decided to ship it to a guy in CA who does this professionally. By then, I had discovered a chassis number engraved on the front of the body. I had done some research about getting this vehicle legal in WA state, and I thought that I had it all figured out. I could just apply for a provisional title. So, I spent two years and thousands of dollars on restoring the Jeep. When it arrived, I took it straight to DMV to apply for the title. Not so fast! I had no VIN number or serial number, so I was told that I had to have it inspected at a state patrol office. The catch was the state patrol budget was limited, so all of those places were closed! I was told to check the website for an appointment every Tuesday morning. For months, there were no appointments. One Tuesday, my husband went to the site and found an appointment. Yay! We trailered it to the site about an hour from home, and the officer inspected it and gave it the new VIN number that was on the chassis. I gave her a big hug. We headed home, and our first stop was the DMV office, again. Where was my bill of sale? I didn’t have one of course. So, she tells me that I have to get it appraised. After a couple of weeks, I did get it appraised, and I had to take that paperwork to the DMV office. Along with various other fees, I also had to pay sales tax for WA state (8.9%) on the appraised price. I gladly wrote that big fat check, and they gave me the provisional title paper work and my paper tag. The new collector’s plate tag showed up a week later. Yay! I have the three year date written on my google calendar, and I will be heading down there to take care of that chore right away. It’s definitely not my daily driver, but we do enjoy taking it out for quick trips once in a while. I have been kicking myself for my lack of knowledge or insight regarding the whole title business, so I felt a little less stupid when I read your story along with the stories of so many others. I was sure that the lady at DMV was mocking me every time I went to the counter. Good luck on your continuing projects!
The state of Kansas actually makes titling vintage vehicles (as opposed to campers) pretty easy with a bill of sale and a vehicle inspection, but I ran into an issue years ago with a '67 MGB that I purchased locally. Basically, the guy was selling it for his brother who had passed away, and he gave me the existing title and a bill of sale, but for whatever reason, since there was a valid title involved when I tried to title it, I had to ask him to go back and get that taken care of through the proper methods. He was nice enough to do that for me, but he had to get it inspected with the KS Highway Patrol, but there was an issue that came up when he did that, because the VIN plate had been removed during a repaint, and it wasn't reattached using the approved rivets, so he had to go through a whole process to get that taken care of using the correct rivets. I think he trailered it back and forth two or three times during this process. I honestly should've paid him extra for all his efforts.
Recently acquired a 1971 Lark. The owner was deceased. Fortunately for me, the estate executor was legally able to sign the title over to me. No problem at the courthouse! Your reno efforts put my ham-fisted work to shame! Oh well, I've got functional lights and brakes, and that meets my needs.
Yeah, if someone can sign off on it for you, you're in good shape pretty much anywhere you live. Lights and brakes are the important ones, the rest is just gravy!
I called the DMV before I bought it and let them run the VIN number to make sure it was still valid. It's good to check the title number as well as the VIN. Every time it is sold, it gets a new title number, and if there are old copies of a title floating around, they may be void.
I've heard a common workaround is to use an agent to register the trailer in the state of Maine. Some states don't issue titles for trailers below a certain weight or over a certain age.
That might work in some cases and in some states, but I would doubt that Kansas would accept that as there's a record of it being titled in someone else's name. Registration just says who pays the taxes, not who owns the property.
My thoughts are, when a build is taken completely to the frame and most parts are new products; floor, walls, ceiling, nails, electric, plumbing and decor it is a vintage inspired home-built trailer. As long as it meets highway safety codes (lights, brakes, whatever) it should be an easy process. Now the California Dept of Motor Vehicles has not contacted me FOR my opinion, I just looove to share. I like the idea of having an 'inspired' vintage trailer, I don't like the Retro's those large manufacturers are putting out and if one like you're selling was in my price range (and it had a title) it would be a no brainer. I love a true vintage trailer, but I don't follow too close on the highway.
Yeah, I totally agree with you, but the HiPo sees a serial number and they say, oh well you just repaired an existing camper with that serial number. Which I guess TECHNICALLY I did. So we'll see how it goes. I don't think it'll be contested, but you never know.
I live in Arkansas and you definitely need to have a title for even a vintage camper trailer to be able to tag it my guess is the man just pulled a tag off of a random trailer he had around the house and stuck them on your trailer to get it back home because the only way around that is to get a bonded title which takes several months and will cost you whatever the bonding agent estimates the trailers value at. So my suggestion to anyone looking to get a bonded title issued is to take the trailer to the bonding agent before any renovation is done to get the lowest value possible.
In Oklahoma they have a "Title Service Company." They take your VIN or serial number, and for a fee, research the number in the DOT database. If it comes back with a previous owner, they send a letter to the last owner to see if they have a claim. They have 30 days to respond. If the number cannot be traced, they build it into the system and they inspect the numbers on the frame. Once it is in the system they issue you paperwork. You take the paperwork to the DMV and they issue you a title. It isn't very expensive and it used to take about 8 weeks. Now it takes about six months. But it is well worth it.
As near as I can tell, in Kansas your only option is the sue in court to have a judge quiet the title in your name, and then you can take that judgement to your DMV. I believe there's more than one way to execute the legal proceedings for a quiet title, and I believe a person could do it all by themselves, but I'm not versed well enough to DIY it. There's a law office here in Wichita that does flat rate quite title for $2500!!! So I'm working with a lawyer that I've worked with in the past, and he said it'd be like $400 plus lawyer's fees. So fingers crossed, and at least I'll have more content for the channel, lol!
I bought a boat with an old notarized title, and older boat titles require an extra affidavit in Kentucky. The guy sold me the boat, with it in someone else's name. When I went to the DMV to transfer it, they told me I needed the owner to sign the extra affidavit. So, I found him on White Pages and contacted him and explained. So, we met at a bank and both signed the affidavit. And I got it transferred. But I did have to pay 10 years of back taxes on it.
Sometimes simply contacting the "rightful" owner is the easiest and by far cheapest way to solve your problems! But if that's not possible you can be in for a bit of a legal slog. Glad you were able to get your boat sorted without too much hassle!
The steps are specific to each state, but if you Google Kansas quiet title you'll find a person that has created a website specific to the process that has a lot of good information on it.
I applied to state of VT for a motor vehicle, they take the NADA value and you pay taxes on that plus a few other fees - for a vehicle. Not sure how a trailer works, but I can ask them. Since my vehicle was in INOP, but I was so excited about it, they RETURNED all the paper work telling me, "by your own admission, the vehicle does not run (engine fire), so they said KEEP this paperwork and re-submit when it is road worthy."... I sold it with that paper work and said NO TITLE. - your mileage may vary
The VT loophole might work for somethings in the state of Kansas, but I think you'd run into trouble if a vehicle or camper had an existing title in the state, which this one did.
The state of Kansas allows utility trailers under 2000lbs to be titled and registered at the owner's discretion, but the same does not apply to RV campers, which MUST have a title. However, vintage automobiles and motorcycles can be titled and registered with a bill of sale only, which seems a little silly to me.
@@TrailerTrashtoTreasure It is a pretty small camper. We had a 15 foot Fleetwood Coleman Popup that was just at the weight limit and sold new with a bill of sale. It made me a bit uncomfortable, but there was never an issue with registration or resale. Surprisingly , I also have a small home built utility trailer and that was also easy to register in NJ. My buddy had all kinds of trouble trying to register a small boat trailer in PA because of a bill of sale from out of state. It is odd how different this is state to state.
Or just go through your state dmv/ they will check the vin/serial # They can also issues a new 17 Digit vin # and paperwork for a new title. Its not as costly as most people think it is. Ive done it for a 1946 Globetrotter camper.
In Kansas you can request a title search through the state and they will send you the last title holder's information. That is the only person that can request a replacement title. The state will not issue a new title on property that is titled in another person's name. Now, if what you're saying is that you've got an old camper with no serial number and no title and you want to title it as home-built, you might be able to do that if you can convince the highway patrol that it really is completely home-built and not a renovated vintage camper, but then you no longer have a vintage camper, you have a 2024 home-built camper and all of the issues that you deal with on home-built campers. Your state may be different, but Kansas is pretty strict on titles, and that's why there's the quiet title process.
@TrailerTrashtoTreasure If you contact your State department that controls registration and title work. They should give you a # to contact. They will come out to the location of the trailer and run everything. If you schedule an appointment. Hwy patrol has nothing to do with title work.
Kansas doesn't work like that. You can file TRDL-302 and they will tell you what title information they have on hand if they have any, but they don't come out and check anything for you. When you go to get a title they will require an inspection by the Kansas HiPo for any out of state or home-built campers, but you have to take it to them for inspection.
look up how to get a state of vermont title. I'm in missouri it cost around 200 bucks to get it legal and stitch it from a vermont title to a missouri/kansas title. ive had a friend here in missouri that has done that with a couple cars an got them titled and tagged
My understanding of that is that you're able to register it in Vermont without being a resident, and you may be able to take that registration to your local DMV and acquire a title for it. I don't believe that would work on a camper that has an existing Kansas title like this one. Kansas will actually allow you to title antique cars on a bill of sale, but this does not extend to campers, which must follow a standard titling process.
@@TrailerTrashtoTreasure yeah true my buddy just used it on cars and did the Vermont loophole but yeah campers are a whole other issue. 😔 ahh yes wonderful Kansas 😊 I feel we're alot more lenient in Missouri on that kind of stuff but still not sure if it will work with a camper or not the works the dmv is gonna say is no an you are where you started lol
I mean, basically the information I got from a supervisor at the DMV is that you have a title or you don't get no title. I think I could probably do the quiet title process myself now, but I really didn't want to leave anything to chance on this one.
@@TrailerTrashtoTreasure yeah for sure! Well thank you for your videos, you just Gained a sub from me! I have a old 67 forester travel trailer that's been sitting an you got me thinking of taking the body from the frame and doing my first rebuild an my cousin still has the title to the trailer he just has to find it! So I'm excited 😊 thanks for all you do!
I’m also in Kansas and bought my camper with a bill of sale from a friend who bought it without a title from someone else. And I have taken it down to the frame but was advised to apply for my quiet title now as to wait until I’m done with it in case the original owner wants it back and by applying for a quiet title you will get a original issued title saying that’s it’s a 1961 Shasta compact (that’s what mine is) instead of some 2022 homemade trailer and you want the original title instead of a duplicate title so let’s say some grandkid is going thru their grandparents old paperwork and find the original title they could try to come and take your trailer. I’m about to start the process I hope it goes smoothly 🤞🏻🤞🏻
Well we're part way through our process and it's cost about $1000 so far. So if you can figure out how to do it all yourself you'd save yourself some money for sure.
@@TrailerTrashtoTreasure the highway patrol guy I spoken with sent me the paperwork to fill everything out and since it’s now spring and time to start working on it. I better get to filling it out and see what happens
Having 40 years of experience as a police officer, I am well aware of the issues with folks purchasing vehicles/trailers without a title. I had to confiscate more than one stolen vehicle when completing certified VIN inspections. When I bought the '69 Gold Star trailer I'm restoring, the previous owner had been given the trailer by a neighbor who was retiring and moving out of state. The previous owner had the neighbor's title and had not yet transferred the title into his name. I told him I would not buy the trailer until he could provide to me a Colorado title in his name. When he went to the DMV, the clerk said he would have to get a certified VIN inspection (done by a police officer), even though he had the neighbor's title in hand, because the original title only had a 4 digit VIN. Fortunately the DMV supervisor was aware that older trailers frequently had 4 digit VINs, many of which were identical numbers if from the same manufacturer. The supervisor looked at the original title and instructed the clerk to issue a new Colorado title. The whole process only took a couple of hours and I was able to purchase the properly titled trailer that same day. I took that title to DMV the next day. Since the VIN did not meet the current 17 digit format, the clerk issued a new 17 digit VIN, a new VIN plate that I will attach to the trailer's tongue when its ready for the road, and was able to get a new title in my name without issue. It would have been a whole different story had the original title not been available. I likely would have had to look into a bonded title, as Mobiltec mentioned.
Yeah, and you know, I knew in the back of my mind that I needed titles for these things, and I knew that person at the DMV was wrong, but I also knew that in Kansas you could title a vintage car from a bill of sale, and I had at least checked the NICB list for stolen VINs, but I should've done my homework more thoroughly. Oh well, what's done is done, lesson learned, and I'll approach these things differently in the future, but hopefully our lawyer will get this one all sorted for us.
Yep. All campers of any size, weight, or age, must be registered, titled, and tagged in the state of Kansas. Only certain utility trailers and farm trailers are exempt and can be towed without a tag. That said, a lot of people, including law enforcement and DMV employees, are unaware of that, but it is technically the law.
Its No help to you guys, but Uk watchers should know any Caravan or trailer without an engine doesn't have to be registered although since 1992 the Caravan club & AA have an initiative where they stamp a serial number on our caravans so can be recovered if stolen and more easily insured. Good Luck with it 👍
That's interesting. Every state here in the US has a bit of a different way of handling camper titling, and it's not totally clear to us members of the public how they classify things. Something I found out at the DMV when I finally got my title for it was that in the state of Kansas, an RV must have three things to technically be considered an RV: a 12v electrical system, a toilet that is permanently plumbed, and a heater. So I asked what my camper was, and they said it was an enclosed trailer. So I suppose my follow up question should have been, "what's the legal difference between an enclosed trailer and a utility trailer?" So many questions...
Most states have a process for that. To my knowledge, it usually involves presenting a death certificate and proving next of kin, and then requesting a re-issued title. But you should call your local department of transportation to find out for sure.
Yeah, I believe that's the case with a lot of these old campers that you see rotting in fields. They're still carrying a title in a dead person's name, and the family hasn't ever bothered to do anything about it because they figure that camper is garbage anyway. Sad.
I have come the realization that having a title make the biggest pile of trash, whether it is a motorcycle, camper or old car worth three or four hundred dollars beyond the parts value of what you are purchasing.
PLEASE CHECK OUT WONDERLUST VINTAGE DESIGN. HER COMPANY HAD A EXPLOSION FIRE AND THEY LOST EVERY THING INCLUDING THE HOUSE. SHE IS ALSO A WAGONEER OWNER. JUST THOUGHT I WOULD PASS THE WORD AROUND US VINTAGE CAMPER BUFFS AND WAGONEER OWNERS. TO SEE IF YOU CAN GIVE THEM A HAND UP.
