Yeah the way everyone has attempted to explain HGIG, including hdtvtest (Vincent) made no sense to me, .. Talking about a "HGIG compliant game" It did not in anyway fit with my real-world findings.. The creator of this video is the first person who actually explains it in a way that seems to coincide with reality..! Example being - engaging HGIG always lowers APL, (darkens the image) regardless of what you have set the HDR calibration to in the PS5 HDR adjustment screen. Tried putting everything on max brightness in this PS5 HDR adjustment, and then engaging HGIG, and I still would experience exactly the same result when engaging HGIG, APL is being significantly lowered.. According to Vincent and others, the PS5 HDR adjustment is supposed to be HGIG calibration, and it just isn't!
Great analysis! For some people on the fence about which settings they should choose: Whatever looks best to your preference is the most important thing. Don't use settings you might be unhappy just for the sake of accuracy or intent. Enjoyment comes first.
A little trick I use when playing in a brighter room, for some games is to lower the peak brightness to 300 or 400 nits and use DTM on. This gives an overall brighter picture but with less contrast.
So glad somebody cleared this up, for the longest time i wasnt clear on all these settings but now it is clear,its all variable depending on game and personal preference thanks
Good video. I would suggest setting up the HDR calibration screen using HGIG due to it having a stationary target. Then you can enable dynamic tone mapping if you like. If you set it up using dynamic tone mapping first you will not get the right result due to the dynamic nature of constantly moving and altering the brightness. I game on a CX in a dark room and never use dynamic tone mapping. Don't like it at all. Even when I watch UHD movies, I let my Panasonic UB820 tone map instead using the HDR optimizer which gives an amazing result. If one needs a brighter display for a brighter room, I would go Samsung Qleds instead of OLED. Great video. 👍
Nice! But i have a question about 'calibration'. So, i turn on the PS5, then i turn on HGIG, then calibrate the HDR on the PS5 right while HGIG is on right? I don't know what the best setting is on the PS5. I mean, in the HDR menu you have 3 steps. And i have black level turned off or on (forgot), because the colours are much better now instead of the default option. Now black is really black. And about the 3 steps, how many clicks (up or down)? Step 3 i have fully dark.
@@Rexistant. Switch to HGiG on your display, then go into your video settings set RGB range to Limited. Go to Adjust HDR and press the dpad down until you see the sun. Then press up 15 times or until the sun clips(disappears) and stop. The same with the second pattern. Then on the third pattern press all the way down until the sun disappears. This is how it should be for OLED displays. For LCD displays just follow the instructions on the screen.
While playing in a dark room u essentially get more dynamic range with HGIG than DTM that sacrifices dynamic range cuz it prioritize a higher apl. There are however some games that do look better with DTM and its a viable option in a brighter room so it def has it uses.
Great comment! I definitely agree. Just wish LG had a better DTM algorithm overall. Or at least gave you an option to resolve more highlights detail, while also not boosting APL in darker/middling scenes. It’s definitely one of the only viable options in a brighter environment. But then again, HDR in a bright environment doesn’t really make sense, and was never the intended viewing environments for HDR. As you said, you lose dynamic range at the expense of a higher APL. Idk…it just can look LCDish at times. Sony has implemented better dynamic tone mapping imo. If we could only get that on LG, with the HGiG option too.
@@dante19890 Exactly. Me too! Like I said, I mainly wish it was just more refined, or gave at least two options for DTM. I really am a fan of the way Sony’s doing it this year, as far as their DTM algorithm goes. It never truly looks bad. Where I can say DTM on LG, does in many instances. Especially when it lifts the mid-tones and black level way too much. DTM off is worthless for gaming imo. HGiG is amazing, especially with games that have internal sliders, or use the system level Max/Min TML metadata. But it can also look bad, when games don’t have a slider, and are outputting 4k or 10k nits, etc. If you set up a Sony with tone mapping off, on the system level calibration screen, then switch to gradation preferred, it’s virtually as good as HGiG on LG, if not slightly better in some instances. It definitely performs better with those games that don’t have sliders. Bc the algorithm is more faithful to the APL of the content, while trying to focus on resolving highlight detail, without lowering the APL of said scene. Then if you play in a bright room, you can switch to brightness preferred. Idk. Tone mapping is something I always thought LG could of done better with. I know my set would perform slightly better, if I had it calibrated. But it just should be better OOTB imo. LG gives a lot of control, over the tone mapping at least, but again, you need a calibrator, and one that knows what they’re doing. As much praise as I’m giving Sony tho. There crucial flaw is the ASBL and logo dimming algorithm, that cannot be disabled. It’s truly a shame, bc after a long time gaming with static elements. You’ll eventually end up with a display that’s dimmer than a C1/CX. So yeah, the A90J is nice and all, and the best WRGB OLED I’ve seen to date..but the dealbreaker is that dimming. That stuff drove me nuts on my CX. Thank goodness they allow me to do what I want, with the product I purchased. LG’s ASBL algorithm was very, very, aggressive. Even dimming long dark scenes in HDR/DoVi.
Nice going here sir, one step ahead of Vincent, and a lightyear ahead of digital foundry.. Happy to have stumbled upon this channel! Finally someone with the chops starts to really dig deep into the mysteries of HGIG and DTM! My Samsung Q90T will always completely crush the blacks with HGIG engaged.. But then again the local dimming feature in the QLED's have a way of just taking anything that's near-black and turn it into inky black.. So it's not the fault of HGIG.. It seems the Samsung native DTM and local dimming has to work in tandem to achieve proper results.. And I actually had my TV professionally measured and calibrated, so I know for a fact that gamma 2.2 is achieved and the EOTF is being tracked. Sometimes I wish I had an OLED, even though I'm aware that for certain types of scenes the QLED is ridiculously impressive.. 🙈
Great video, could you please check HDR on Halo Infinite after campaign release and maybe make an update video as the new update may change how HDR and Dolby Vision works.
I never agreed with the view that DTM off is the worst choice. For me DTM off is the most accurate (and closest to artist's intent) choice. When Hgig works (and doesn't clip highlights) , it's even even better
1113111 menu changed everything. Dynamic Tone Mapping off; MaxCLL 700; peak brightness in game 800; 13 clicks up in PS5 HDR calibration (it’s only 740 but it’s better than over-the-top 850 on 14 clicks) is a way better than HGIG. HDR10 metadata is static, TV shouldn’t make anything brighter or darker dynamically, brightness of every pixel is decided by the game engine, TV shouldn’t change anything.
@@pouzeot Okay I see and what values do I need to set or do you use for the other 2 ... Mastering Peak and MaxFALL ? I want to try and see what you are using and see the difference from HGIG, many thanks Daniel 👍
Bless you man. You're my favorite on this subject because like me, I can't bring myself to drink the HGIG Kool aid no matter how hard I try. I think "HGIG compatible " simply means a game doesn't have in game calibration and uses whatever you set on the PS5 HDR screen. So RC Rift Apart , Ghost of Tsushima, Spiderman all fit that description. The issue is, with maybe exception of Ghost of Tsushima, Spiderman and especially RC Rift Apart look terrible with HGIG. Dull, dim, DEAD. They look so much better with HGIG. I've seen other RU-vidrs say "just calibrate HDR with DTM on then switch to HGIG and those games look great !"..... OK, why not just use DTM if you will basically calibrate your HDR to 4000 nits ? DtM will be better in that case. It's like this desperation to use HGIG no matter what. And I'm thankful for people like you and a handful of others who have the balls to speak up and say "wait, DTM looks better in this game or that game, and thats my own eyes are telling me "
Finally! Someone else who gets it! Great work as always AMOK! I know there are many out there who understand this, but I constantly see a lot of confusion/misinformation on the topic, and incorrect videos being made about it. I personally use HGiG 99.5% of the time. The only times I don’t prefer too, is games like God of War, where the clipping is just ridiculous, due to set 10,000 nit output, and no sliders. But DTM bothers me a lot. Like A LOT! I loath the fact it boost APL on darker/middling scenes. It just goes overboard, and kinda washes the picture and colors. It also take too long to adjust, and the luminance fluctuations are noticeable. LG needs to refine their DTM algorithm imo. It needs a brightness preferred or gradation preferred method, like Sony. What you will find, is Sony’s, just tone map overall better than LG’s do. Their algorithm is more faithful to APL, and focuses more so on the highlights only, rather than boosting, or lowering the APL. It manages better than LG’s algorithm does. Especially when you don’t have granular sliders. HGiG is a gift on LG TV’s tho. If this feature wasn’t implemented, I would of ditched LG a long time ago.
Thanks. I wasn't sure if I should make this video and it took me ages to finish it....I am still not happy with the outcome....but I thought it is important to explain what is the story with HGiG.
@@GamingTech-RU-vid Anytime man. And I definitely know/understand your thought process. It’s a really touchy subject for some reason. People have such strong feelings about it too. So quick to judge, and think they understand it. But I think you overall did a really good job. You seem to be a bit like me, and a protectionist to an extent 😅 Always thinking about things you should, or could’ve said/explained better. You did wonderful! Just know many, including myself, appreciate your work, dedication, and efforts to always try and explain things to the best of your abilities and understanding! You’ve been a beam of light, when it comes to covering the CX, and the implementation of HDR in video games, etc. Keep up the great work my friend! Much 💙
The problem is out of the box. These tvs come with DTM on from the factory. Average gamers will have no idea about hgig or even care. It’s going to stay on DTM. Tech nerds like us on the other hand…
The picture is potentially brighter with Hgig or dtm off if the content has a hdr peak brighter than 800 nits. Above 800 nits Hgig will simply clip highlights Dtm off will tonemap the highlights while keeping base brightness Dtm on will try to gradually maintain detail up to 4000nits! But with lots of highlights on screen it will dim the rest of the picture making a bright sunny scene look like overcast. With dtm on small highlights that dont fill a big part of the screen will clip too as the tv brightens the rest of the picture. In my opinion. Dtm off gives me the most natural picture even if Hgig reveals more cloud detail or snow etc. Some kind of perceived contrast.
This channel has become a favourite. I’m still learning going from pc player to family life. So now I game primarily on console with just got the lg c3.. Anyways one question when u calibrate the Xbox series x hdr I’ve heard I should put it on 800nits. But if I would use DTM should I change it to higher?
One of my favorite youtubers! Can you please, please, make a video for Rainbow Six Siege (PS5 with the LG CX)? It is my favorite game of all time and still play it very much, every single day! Good luck my friend!🙏🏼🍀
If a game uses the HDR calibration menu to derive the brightness of elements within scene should be, it then supports HGIG. Just because you can change it after the fact means nothing. I see that a lot of the time people are confusing how something looks to it's technical ability.
I don’t personally like having to toggle TV setting from game to game. Until now you’ve been promoting HGIG as the best setting to use almost always. But here you’re saying HGIG isn’t really supported and to use DTM or HGIG or OFF depending on the game. I mean, great. But I could have already assumed that anyway. There should be best setting to default to, which I though HGIG was supposed to be.
HGiG is the most accurate way to display HDR. BUT it is also important how the HDR is mastered in a game. In GoW , HGiG looks terrible and DTM on is much better. In GoT , HGiG is the way to go.
HGiG is not a console feature, it's a TV feature. All you need are sliders and proper luminance patterns to set each game. HGiG "games" include No Man's Sky and Ratchet and Clank. They use the system level calibration as far as I know. You can test No Man's Sky pretty easily.
I agree. It is a TV feature and not at all a game feature. HGiG CAN give you the best HDR experience on your TV. I did a video about no man's sky a long time ago. The game does look good with HGiG enabled
Brilliant video thank you. Just a question, I see the Dynamic contrast and Super resolution are off on your tv? I thought the game looks better with these settings on? Any thoughts?
@@GamingTech-RU-vid Thank you for replying to me, I really appreciate it. I tested in many games and I noticed that when the Dynamic contrast is on and high, it reveals so many details and bright ups the edges of the screen and the background. It's down to preferences I suppose but in my view I found it really good.
As almost everything it is up to your own preference. I like a picture close to the standard and that means no extra picture settings. But if you like it go for it and enjoy it. There is no right or wrong IMO
Hi , great video thanks for your efforts. 🙏 I just bought G2 OLED and I love how it looks with DTM enabled , I don't have problem about this in most games but in FİFA 23 there's awful brightness fluctuations during the match, especially when ball is around midfield. İs there any way to eliminate this without sacrifice some nits and close max. Brightness limit ? Maybe there are some setting in that hidden menu that we entered with this combination "1113111". There are some eofl settings too , would any of them help with brightness fluctuations ? Thanks already now ,and have great weekend 👋
Interested to hear your thoughts on halo infinite campaign, DV or HDR10 on LG CX. I find DV dimmer in highlights compared to HDR10 and also there is VRR flicker in both modes in gameplay. The highlights being dimmer in DV is a weird one. This supposedly being native DV game, im guessing something is broken currently.
Hello @Amok4All , thank you for your videos already, I have my PS5 connected to a lg C1.In an old video you said pc mode was not necessary. What is your opinion today ? I tried the PC mode and the Console mode and it is quite difficult to the eye to see a difference especially when playing 3m from the TV. However, are there any disadvantages to activating PC mode compared to console mode? If there is no inconvenience and it brings a "plus" (enable 4: 4: 4) why not do it? Thank you for your attention.
Not so. Call of Duty BO: Cold War is HGIG compatible. I tested it. If you use DTM it will saturate the image blow out highlights. HGIG corrects for that. You can check by using MinTLM pattern on PS5 by turning it up high and the image in game will change. Same with ratchet. If you see a change then it’s better to use HGIG setting. If not then use the in game HDR sliders. HGIG let’s the consoles do the tone mapping, not the TV.
But this is still not a support for HGiG. CoD supports the HDR Calibration menu that's it. HGiG is the better option for this game without a doubt but again CoD does not support HGiG it supports the Calibration Menu
@@GamingTech-RU-vid I’m sorry but it does. Then what was the point of SONY and MICROSOFT, Game companies joining HGIG and creating that calibration menu and LG implementing HGIG in its TVs?? The point is so we see a developer reference picture. Always set HGIG ON, set HDR patterns to 1st clipping point, even if the game has in game HDR sliders because HDR values will be at the console level. Also some games have their own HDR calibration screens. They will still look better and more correct with HGIG selected, even if they weren't developed with HGIG in mind.
Black Ops Cold War was one of the first games that I said “wow” on, due to their implementation of HGiG/system level calibration screen. It just felt like a step in the right direction. Sure, it’s not perfect, or the most impressive HDR ever, but it does have decent implementation. I think you’ve missed AMOK’s point tho entirely btw.
I also tried HGIG on Nano863pa and noticed that on PS5 hdr calibration screen it greatly trims hdr range. For example first screen - 5 clicks with HGIG tone mapping on and sun symbol is invisible VS same scenario and it takes 15 click with tone mapping off. The image quality is somewhat messed up with hgig on my TV.
HDTvTest posted in the settings of the oled ps5 set in home dashboard pc mode instead of game console .. Since it supports 4.4.4 the question is whether it is worth running it or leaving on game console?
LG aus Deutschland. Also ich benutze denn PC Modus auf dem 48 Zoll LG CX wegen croma 4-4-4 Unterstützung für die Xbox series x. Und spiele mit hgig. Dadurch daß der LG TV HDMI 2.1 nur 40gb benutzt kann ich nicht genau sagen ob die 4-4-4 croma voll ausgenutzt wird. Was meinst Du?
Hello sometimes you showed another pilot remote for lg CX .. can you give me a model? because my pilot magic broke down and I am looking for a replacement ..
All very nice, but one thing you never explained well. PC MODE or GAME MODE? generally you say you use game mode, but then you make videos where you say PC mode has less banding, so in the end? PC or GAME? answer us once and for all. Thanks :)
Then how can you explain how the models look better especially the faces look so much life with DTM than with HGIG. In playing playing games like TLOU, I find DTM to be useful to aim at enemies. Which is better to be able to appreciate the game or follow the director intention. I will still prefer being able latter.
For PC users, I use my 3090 pc on the c1 tv .. hgig is better on 90% of the more than 11 triple a games i tested from steam, specially if the game has a hdr calibration in its settings
Ofc it would, HGIG just disables the TV tonemapping leaving it up to the game to tonemap the image The whole point of it's existence was to stop double tonemapping.
Can you take a look at halo? I have lg c1 and there is some awful Gradient banding in this game. Especially around crosshair in the dark in game. No matter Hgig or not
If it is too dark just use DTM ON. I agree that the additional brightness from DTM ON in many games are very nice...but I am still not a big fan of DTM ON.
I think that's like the debate 60 fps vs details. I prefer to take 60 fps with less brilliance in the picture but an overall better picture because 60fps pushes the picture permanent. Same feeling with dtm instead of hgig. In hgig there are some moments they look nicer for example more details in bright pictures. But in the end the whole picture is better with dtm more time…
You practically said everything and nothing... almost useless video if you say to “do as one prefers”. Hgig is the way, because with dtm the images always pump up the brightness at maxi nits, also in area suppose to be dark…
@@Mailylion Atleast he isn't saying "No-tisable" like Vincent 🤣 Jokes aside, I've always found foreigners speaking English with an accent charming in it's own way.
This video just did my head in. One minute you say one thing, next minute you say another. What about the million other games out there? Blah. You should have started with "Try both and decide for yourself" and you would have save 9 minutes of twaddle.
Nein. Nicht wirklich. CoD unterstuetzt die HDR Kalibration auf der X und der PS. Aber Du kannst das menue nutzen mit HGiG oder DTM. Ich hab auch gesagt das in vielen Faellen HGiG die bessere Wahl ist aber trotzdem gibt es kein HGiG support in einem Spiel.
Hgig off uses the internal tone mapping of up to 4000nits. Hgig on uses 1:1 to maximum luminance of 800 nits. So older games hgig off. Newer games or ones with a max nits setting Hgig on with 800 nits max luminescence setting. Dirt 5, Spider-Man miles morales and astros playroom all support internal calibration. Hdtvtest has already posted a way better video on this with real world analysis.
HGIH Is is extremely dark. It brings the average picture level brightness down. It does that so it can accentuate highlights. These guys want you to hide in the dark and turn all the lights off and put black out curtains up in your living room. The average person doesn't want to hide in the dark when they're watching tv or games. Hgig is a terrible choice to use ever. Dynamic tone mapping on looks just fine on an OLED. But keep in mind h d r other than maybe on the G3 will never look as good as it does on an LED because LEDs get much brighter. The highlights will pop better on an OLED though. These guys that make these videos are extreme nerds. They live in isolation in the dark. They most likely sleep all day. They get up and play video games at night and they make sure there's no lights on. The average person doesn't want to have to turn off the lights off just to use the TV.
