I’d prefer him collab with NXGamer. Michael is the best gaming tech content creator. He has such great insight due to his experience actually working in the industry that other outlets can’t match.
@@robertlawrence9000 One thing I would find interesting is why many Games use 0.05 Nits as Blackfloor instead of 0.0000 Nits. So many HDR Games have raised blacks in HDR for some reason while Movies look great.
I just switched from LG c1 to TCL c845 mini-LED. It's true that hgig looks accurate but in most games it also makes the overall picture appear to be a little too dim. In Forza Horizon for example, hgig does indeed look nice and very accurate, but when you use the TVs tone mapping instead, you get a very bright picture with only a small amount of lost detail and I find that just more fun to look at personally.
Great work as usual, I would be interested to see your take on Windows 11 auto HDR and it's Windows store HDR calibration app. There are many folks trying to make sense of that.
@@Gamerboy-gw5kn It's called "Vulkan/OpenGL present method" and you want it to be set to "refer layered on DXGI Swapchain". It can be toggled on a per game basis. It appearently reads OpenGL and Vulkan as DX through some kind of translation layer, which is how you can get Auto HDR. I saw one guy use it to get HDR through a PS3 emulator.
In the end, it still all comes down to personal preference. I recently got my C3 and set it up the way the experts were advocating and some things like HGiG (too dark) or color temp warm 50 just weren't to my liking. I now use my standard mode for the ps5 and enjoy it as much as all the other content
Vicent, we would very much like you to make a NEW video comparing HGiG with Dolby Vision Gaming and what would be the best to be used today, since years have passed since your last video. Thank you very much and keep doing this excellent work.
I think I'm done watching this type of content, & not just from here, there are several others that I follow. Other than setting up a TV initially & updating firmware, I'd rather watch & play games on the TV than worry about all the different settings for this that & the other regarding TVs. For me it's set it, forget it, & enjoy it, & don't worry about the things I'll never miss!
HGIG is great in a dark room on my C2. But I rarely play in dark conditions. I've mostly gone back to using DTM as I play in a well lit room. Reference is great, but it doesn't beat preference when the conditions aren't ideal.
HDR is made for dark room performance. Better control your light conditions than using overly bright settings that lowers the dynamic range. BriGhTnEsS means not picture quality. And it isn´t ToO DaRk. You probably never saw true HDR.
@@mipha5262 Or maybe I'll keep using settings that I enjoy using while still understanding that it's not the most optimal or accurate because accuracy is not everything.
This is why I have tone mapping turned off on my Sony after calibrating on console. Yes, having it ON at Gradiation Preferred or Brightness Preferred gives pop, but often blows out the highlights ☀️
The LG c1 with the ps5 , tone mapping is a better choice because with hgig enabled all games are very dark, everyone will have their own preference tho .. play with what makes you happy
It really depends on the game and how hdr is implemented. Example games like GT7, forza and spiderman look absolutely amazing in hgig on my 77in C1. Brightness not and issue. But with a game like lords of the fallen where the hdr is crap hgig just won't look right, very dark, washed out.
@@DesOdinsNordmanThe Quarry actually looks amazing in HGiG in light controlled room. Usually HDR games are overly bright, this one looks like dark Dolby Vision movie. The problem with The Quarry is that it's average brightness is almost always in the treshold of TPC dimming. To play The Quarry properly in a dark room TPC needs to be disabled.
So I just listened to a talk from a Valve dev where they talked about creating proper metadata for HDR. Kinda funny if they do things correctly. Linux will go from no HDR support to the only correct HDR implementation for games.
I use the last years Panasonic JZ980 model so I do not have a choice but to use dynamic tone mapping if I also want to have pure 4k120hz. My solution to the problem has been to ignore the test images of PS5 and those inside game and just set the peak brightness in both to 1000 nits (and paperwhite to 150-200 nits if there is one) manually. Many games already tell you the nit values in each slider and there is a chart on the internet for the nit values of PS5 hdr calibration tool, how many clicks from zero I have to go up to get the desired value. While the test images look wrong just ignore them, let the dynamic tone mapping do its work in actual real life content and start to game. The calibration settings I did are closer to the limits of my displays capabilities and dynamic tone mapping is able to sort it out easier, with sparkling highlights but no blown out midtones as far as I can tell.
That may be the case, but that was never mentioned at all in the video. You just talk about how all these things are better on the Panasonic tv, without letting your audience know they paid you to say that. Kinda’ looses a bit of integrity if you ask me and will make me question any other video that does the same. I hope it was worth it!
@danielmichaelgarcia: As mentioned, we have marked this video as "Paid Promotion", and clearly stated in the video description that it was sponsored by Panasonic. Don't blame us if you didn't notice these declarations... our conscience is perfectly clear. :-)
Should have mentioned that this is just as crucial for using TV as an HDR monitor for PC! Also, I was under the impression that LG oleds support HGIG. What's with the brightness difference against the mastering monitor then? Surely Vincent wouldn't have not enabled HGIG on LG for that comparison? What's going on?
@HDTVTest @vincent I need you to do us a huge, gigantic favor. Please make a video explaining all the terminologies like gamma, color format, color space, luminons, nits, and everything in between when you discuss a display! I know i might be only one here asking but there's thousands of people wanting the same thing and you are only person I know who is expert in display calibration and knowledge. I'm waiting for a response atleast. Thank you!
From most recommendations I've seen for Sony TVs, others suggest turning DTM off, calibrating HDR using the PS5 patterns, and then turning DTM back to gradation preferred Wouldn't turning gradation preferred back on defeat the purpose of calibrating with DTM off? Why not calibrate with gradation preferred on?
Eh. HDR for gaming just sucks. Most games don't even use the console built-in HDR calibration settings, even the first party games don't always use it. Since there is no standard for gaming, you should just use whatever looks best to you, it really doesn't matter. I personally made the choice to not bother with HDR in games anymore, SDR is just better suited for the medium as it stands right now.
I need help. Just got a PS5 and a Hisense U7K TV. The TV reported max brightness is 1000 nits, which according to a chart online is 15ish clicks when doing the HDR Adjust calibration on the PS5. However the logo in the calibration process is still visible at 15 clicks and I need to go up to 25ish clicks to have it disappear or be just barely visible. Not sure how many clicks I should do. I have Tone mapping disabled on the tv but I don't think it turns off. The overall picture looks off in Spider-man Remastered and it's driving me insane.
Looks like a lot of you should have just got an lcd. If you don't play in a dark room and think just bc the apl is brighter it looks better. Lcd would be the right choice for you.
Hmm, obviously this is subjective but the game you're playing matters in regards to this topic. For example, with Tone mapping off and HGIG on, NBA 2K24 looks dark and odd on my LG CX. However, Starfield looks better in HGIG versus tone mapping being on. I suggest trying both on each game you play to see what looks best.
Should I turn off HDR tone mapping on Sony TV's, or leave graduation preferred? I don't think Sony does HGIG on their sets, so graduation preferred might be the correct way?
you can try to simulate HGIG by turning off hdr tone mapping, but on some Sony tvs that don't work in those cases, Gradation preferred is the best choice. So you should check how your tv handles it. 1 way is to go into the ps5 or xbox calibration app and see where the sun/squares clip when tone mapping is set to off. If it's at your panels' brightness, then you're good, but if it's significantly lower, then you're better off with gradation preferred tone mapping.
@@m60122Hey just wanted to clarify what you mean when you say "if it's at your panel's brightness". Does that mean with tone mapping off, you're able to get the sun to clip before reaching the maximum you can increase? If a panel can't do it with tone mapping off, does that mean the sun won't clip at all? I've been scratching my head about this for a while. I can get the image to clip with tone mapping off on my X90L. Some people suggest turning tone mapping gradation preferred after doing the calibration with tone mapping off. What does that achieve? When I go back to the hdr calibration with gradation preferred on, the image is no longer clipped. Looking to get an idea of what is happening here and if should leave tone mapping off while playing games. Then there's the whole other thing with games that have their own sliders haha.
Really depends on the use case, right? Am I trying to get immersed in the latest greatest cinematic game to the fullest? Or am I casually grinding in a APRG on a Sunday afternoon? I'm not going to turn off the lights and draw the blinds for the latter. I just want good color and clarity.
I know not everyone is like me but it still baffles me how many people at home don't immerse themselves by playing games in a dark room. Same goes for watching movies. Obviously when you're outside on a train, bus, or plane things are different but at home I never want to play video games in a room with the lights on.
How am I supposed to calibrate HDR on ps5 on a Sony x90L? I see people saying to calibrate with tone mapping off then turn DTM gradation preferred on. Can someone explain to me if / why this is correct? To me it doesn't make sense to calibrate with dynamic tone mapping off if you're going to turn it back on afterwards.
On an LG C3 (or C1 or C2), turn Dynamic Tone Mapping on, and change the game black level to 30 in the game optimizer menu. The default value is 50 and the HDR looks washed out unless you lower it. No one could tell me that HGIG looks better with a straight face. I'm talking about PC gaming in Windows with the HDR slider on.
One thing Ive never seen mentioned in your videos Vincent is what’s the best solution when a game doesn’t use the console level calibration, doesn’t have an in-game peak brightness slider, and is a fixed 4000 or 10000 nits. The one game that comes to mind is the original God of war. Would it still be okay to use HGiG or better to use DTM Off/On?
In those cases use tone mapping if you want to preserve highlight detail or turn tone mapping off for the highest apl (average picture brightness level)
Shit is so damn complicated. I have a Sony a80j and back when it was released this channel recommended you set the tone map on the tv to “gradation preferred” after calibrating hdr on the ps5. Now you are saying it should be turned off lol which one is it?!
It's sometimes best to try a few examples of content, for instance I didn't realise how terrible Samsung contrast enhancer (on by default) was. Until I played resident evil 7 and areas intended to be dark were devoid of shadows and washed out , sapping all the tension. It does feel a little like many of the default settings for tv sets out of the box are objectively awful, but must be what people have been taught to believe is "good". Once you show them actually good and pretty accurate they often appreciate the improvement.
@kicapanmanis1060 everyone should use their TV in the way they enjoy most. It's their money. I gave the filmmaker mode a go when I got my current tv and gave it a few days to be able to say I'd given it a fair shake. Now I wouldn't go back.
What is the "correct" way to do it on older TVs like the LG C8? DTM game mode should be on or off for HDR gaming? How many "clicks" should you go up from the bottom on the three PS5 HDR calibration screens? Should I still drop the black (third screen) all the way to the bottom?
People who have a Sony A90J OLED, what are your visual settings for Spider-Man 2? Mine are Fidelity | VRR | 120Hz Brightness 35 | Contrast 70 All OFF: Film Grain - Motion Blur (0) - Chromatic Aberration - Depth of Field Does anyone have better presets they like?
Watching previous videos of yours Vincent i wonder: 1) Do really bright tvs tonemap? I mean, if you have a qled tv that can do 2000 nits, does the tv even tone map? Do games even get mastered in higher than 1000 nits?, do they even get mastered at all for hdr? 2) You yourself have said in the past almost no game uses hgig. The only game you usually have as an example is dirt 5. So my question is, does setting hgig on override conventional hdr implementation? 3) I struggle at times to understand hdr on games and what it actually does. On films i get it, you have a bluray version which has been mastered and color graded on sdr standards, then you have a separate 4k uhd version, that has been mastered and color graded specifically for wide color gamut. With games though it seems more like an open format. There is no sdr or hdr specific mastering. It seems more like just 'whatever your tv can handle'. In many cases switching between sdr or hdr in games seems to bring nothing in return, at times hdr is even worse, with elevated blacks or loss in color gradient. Forza Horizon 5 is a classic example for this. Nightime in hdr looks more like greytime, in sdr the night looks like proper night.
I play in a pitch black room, but hgig is just to dim sometimes on my C1 where it feela like im missing detail or certain highlights should be brighter. So i mostly use dtm on. Like on horizon zero dawn and armored core 6 i used dtm on and it just popped more and looked more realistic. But i ended liking hgig for re4 remake cause the contrast between highlights and everything else looked better.
I'm on an LG C3, I play all my games with dtm on (on PC). Set your game black level to 30 in the game optimzer menu. No one with a straight face can tell me that HGIG looks better.
HGIG always looks the best for me. Would love to see a Video from you about why so many Games have a raised black floor in HDR. For some reason many Games have a Blackfloor of 0.05 Nits instead of 0. Do you have any idea why this is?
Cool, I'm gonna buy one -- proceeds to look on the map, to confirm where I live -- America (the continent, not the country, where Panasonic doesn't sell their TVs): oh...
Unless you own a samsung tv with Hgig since its broken and doesnt fully turn off tone mapping😢 yet reviewers still give them top marks for gaming performance...😮
Sponsored content should be noted at the start of the video, not just in the description. This feels to much like your normal content when it is indeed a Panasonic advertisement.
@@hitthesynth6417 my trust of Vincent is not the point. The point is to be as transparent as possible. They’re always new viewers who may be trying to decide on a new tv. Panasonic paid for this ad so that Vincent will showcase and highlight a feature or features of this tv. The problem is that this ad blends too much with his non sponsored content. It is important for viewers to clearly know the difference between an ad and a review no matter the reputation of the content creator.
so what about on a Sony tv like the 80j, 80k or 80l? These tvs don’t have hgig but instead 3 tone mapping settings which are brightness, gradation preferred or off. Do I set up the ps5 and Xbox with tone mapping off on the tv? Do I turn tone mapping on after I calibrate the consoles?
Hi Vincent, are you gonna review the Panasonic mx980/950 mini led full array. Waiting for that, and obviously the mz2000 When do you think you could review? BEST regards
The C3 and G3 support FMM + ALLM + 4:4:4 + DTM Off for gaming. It is the best way to play with my pc and G3. Amazing picture quality (colors boost and peak brightness are preserved) and very low input lag.
Even after trying to set all settings on all lg TVs like lg c1 c2 c3 g2 g3 all have way out colours and move away from game directors intent mean not very accurate meaning lg isn’t the best gaming tv at all !!!!because I’d rather have more input lag and an accurate picture like every other Sony oled and Panasonic then a Samsung or a in accurate lg period. Turns out lg was over hyped after all just like Vincent has been showing everybody when he talks about creators intent gaming and movies .
Nobody cares about a little input lag as long as it’s under 15 ms people are more bothered about an accurate picture and accurate colours and director and or game devs intent . To see it how they made it as Sonys and Panasonics show it better … lg c1 c2 c3 g2 g3 none of them are accurate and very blue out of box which is very important as normal people or should I say most won’t pay for a calibration. And Vincent as been showing you for years who TVs are calibrated close to director intent which should be more important. you buy the game or film to see what there showing you not to have your tv to change the picture that was sent lol imagine a well painted portrait picture a work of art painting you wouldn’t want your eyes changing the colour every time you looked at it 😂
@@UltimateSims I guess you do not understand what I wrote. FMM is film maker mode which is the best accurate picture. So playing with FMM+ALLM will give you the best accurate picture with low imput lag. FMM on LG is extremely accurate.
@@Higurashi690 If you enable the Game Optimizer menu while in FMM, and use VRR, input lag actually becomes extremely good. I tried it for the laughs, but i was actually extremely surprised at how almost imperceptible the input latency difference is between HDR Game Mode and HDR FFM + VRR.
I turned gradiation prefered back on after callibrating the ps5 HDR settings with tone mapping off. I read on an article about HDR on sony tvs that this will give you the best and most accurate HDR picture.
I own a Sony a95k and I noticed when I turn off tone mapping the image is brighter. But I lose detail when I look at very bright areas like the sun,fire, or light bulb. Gradation fixes that but it also dims the entire image. Anyone has any advice on this?
Awesome work vincent. If I want to play games on my C3 in filmmaker mode to preserve the color luminance with DTM OFF then how to I calibrate the Xbox/in game hdr setting. Should I set them to 800 or 4000 nits?
I have a qled with dolby vision. Even when its just hdr10 i personally feel that it looks better with the tonemapping feature enabled. My tv doesnt lose much detail, only in the whites but thats to be expected.
I'm not seeing it.. On my LG C3, I have Tone Mapping on and everything comes alive. I turn HGIG on and everything becomes dark and muddy. Granted I am playing FF16 on PS5.. so perhaps that game just doesn't support HGIG very well?
No reference to how much I costs to buy the Panasonic OLED. You don't game on a Panasonic OLED. It's like listening to a Paris Hilton song on a million dollar audiofile audio system. You get what you pay for. An LG panel tweeked with better processing. 1) LG doesn't want to take the time to do this and 2) Sony and Panasonic wouldn't buy panels from LG. [Still, burn in isn't an issue on any OLED, unless it's a QD-OLED and abused. A W-OLED is worse but, way less subject to burn-in.]
If metadata is available, does display tonemapping outrank other source based tone mapping? mpv has tons of controls regarding this, comparison would be interesting.
@@167hamzarana8 Lol of course "brightness" doesn't affect the brightness of the screen but rather how deep the blacks/darker parts of the image are. "OLED light" controls the screen brightness.
I know this has nothing to do with this particular video but i am miffed that Panasonic are not releasing a 65 inch version of the MZ980 here in the UK.
Vincent number one! I'm waiting for your review of A95L. I bought one and I need your advice.. For now I have tried 2 ways, DTM off (17 clicks) and gradation prefer (21/22 clicks).. I don't know which is more correct but I prefer the impact of the gradation prefer, houwever the PQ and colors are incredible. Good work Vincent.
Dropping a comment here in case this gets answered - I’m concerned about Sony’s lack of official hgig compliance when it comes to comparing the A95L with pansonic
Hey Vincent, great video as always! Do you think there is a chance that last year's Panasonic OLEDs (LZ series) will receive an update that will allow us to use 120Hz Bypass Mode with TV's HDR Tonemap disabled (like this year's MZ series)? I love my LZ1000, picture quality is amazing and HDR performance is great too. My only gripe is that currently 120HZ Bypass Mode automatically enables TV's HDR Tonemap and there is no option to disable it while using Bypass Mode :/ I would really appreciate your opinion on this matter. Cheers! @hdtvtest
How come he’s always using the same games for reference? A lot of games have completely messed up HDR implementation in HGiG, for example Lies of P very recently, everything is extremely washed out simply by ENABLING HDR. Another one is FFXVI, which also has faulty HDR, but at least it’s ways better than SDR. In Pinocchio it’s simply just better to use SDR, or disable HDR in game, and enable DTM (at least in my opinion on LG C1) 😅
still on lge9 because that tv is lg's masterpiece. i really like the setting you recommend but man i dont like the fact that hgig is way, way to dark thats the only downside of hdr game mode with hgig. games look so much better if played on lets say hdr isf expert(bright/dark room). the gamma adjustment helps a little but there must be a way around, so tv amd console/pc work with eachother not just one side. i mean all those settings for nothing?! ps: my tv isnt calibrated yet.
If games truly are calibrated to D65 as you claim then why is the PlayStation Portal not set to D65? Surely a machine shipped with a screen that can’t be calibrated would have been set to D65 white point to display games in the most accurate format?
Ive tried HGIG on my TV with Xbox Series S and PS5 and it makes whites and lighting so bright it washes out the sky and clouds. I completely hate it. DTM is darker but better colors and lighting isnt so intense. Its an LG LED 4k TV. I have the PS5 properly calibrated and the Series S wont show boxes on the white screen like the calibration cant get dark enough. Calibrating in games it still doesnt help.
What are you supposed to do with an LG C1 or C2? Does the Game Optimizer handle this? I don’t see either Tone Mapping or HGIG support anywhere in the menus.
I tried it and HGIG is absolutely dimmer and loses all dynamic range, blacks are now grey. Does not work on the C1, with my Xbox or PS5. @@joshcraft9755
This all well and good until you realize HGIG is still a pipe dream in gaming. Can probably count on one hand how many games are CONFIRMED to actually support HGIG.
As hard as I try to adapt I just can't do a warm color temperature for gaming. I tend to go for a more neutral (0 balance) temp. Sometimes you just have to go with what your own eyes prefer and throw accuracy out the window.
The point is that the relatively warm (6500k) color temperature is what the content is mastered for. TV brands don’t put that in the middle of their settings because the blue subpixel in OLEDs is brighter than the other colors, so shifting the white point towards blue lets manufacturers claim higher brightness.
I have a SONY A95L.. so am I supposed to calibrate HDR on PS5 with Tone Mapping Off then turn on Gradation Preferred? Which one is more accurate (Off or Gradation Preferred) ????
Hello I noticed on Spiderman 2 in particular that when the 120 Hz Mode was activated, the image became strange, less sharp and with washed-out colors... Is this what you're talking about? (Tested on a TCL 65c845). Thanks a lot!
Hi. Hope you can help. I have a 75 inch Sony X95L. Unfortunately, he has no game mode for Dolby Vision Gaming. Only HDR 10 has Game Mode. I think Dolby Vision of the colors and contrasts is much better. Can you tell me how high the input was? When I activate Dolby Vision with Xbox Series X and in Dolby Vision games on the X95L?
@@jibrilbarayseh yeah that’s what I’ve done I’m just wondering if I should even have it enabled if Vincent is saying to just let the console handle HDR
gradation preferred follows the pqeotf most accurately. sony tvs have no formal HGIG support. some sony tvs can simulate it by turning off tone mapping but its not perfect.
I need to look at my settings. On my C9 with Spider-Man 2 on PS5, hgig/tone mapping off (identical in appearance) is SO much dimmer than dynamic tone mapping on
Depends on the games hdr implementation. Games like uncharted 4 set the hdr brightness to 4000 nits so tone mapping is best in that situation but if you're able to set the settings or if the game uses the system hdr calibration then use hgig.
I know that you don't know this, but most people don't care about correct brightness representations or clipping. Movies and games look just better with tone mapping turned on (and not to HGiG).
