KEF isn’t a synonym for balls the same way nads is. 😊 Be not surprised that we call it N.A.D. Then again people say Schitt all the time. We have no standards!
The M10 was my first hifi purchase. I really liked it at first. Then it broke. Reached out to NAD support, and they did nothing to help. I’m not allowed to repair it myself, and replacement parts are insanely expensive. I had to ship it to a shop 1200 miles away. Then waited 9 months for the repair because of parts shortages. In that time I got to demo a lot of other equipment and realized the M10 doesn’t really sound that good. Ended up replacing it with a separates system and will never buy another NAD product again. Their support department did literally nothing and wouldn’t give me any insight as to what could have happened on a unit so new.
That's great first-hand experience to know and share and a definite consideration when spending this amount of money on any audio component. After-sales support and service is a big deal to any consumer that is shopping/comparing any potentially significant purchase, and some manufacturers just don't "get it." Cheers
Love you’re channel, I’m 73 & I mostly listen to jazz, rock from my youth. You mentioned electronic music & a band called Monolake, I’ve been listening to silence. I’m using elac ub5, I think they came out in 2016. The image & soundstage from the speakers are amazing One of the tracks on silence called avalanche was a total 3D experience, many tracks on the Monolake are mind blowing thanks for turning me on to electronic music, also alva noto hybr:I’d ll ectopia environment is also a 3D experience.
I was waiting for a review of this m66 good job. For the price I expected more from the dac section. Most audiophiles have a favourite dac and wouldn't give it up for something like this. I mean it does have a plethora of features but audiophiles usually don't seek all in one devices. What would shake the market would be a dedicated streamer from NAD WITH DIRAQ up to 500hz running blue os. It can be priced competitively and if the streamer section is decent enough it will be a best seller. I say that because after using diraq for bass, mine and my friend's system, concluded that it is a must have for untreated spaces. There was such a device from NAD that also had preamp, dac, phono stage that were essentially unusable and only raised the price.
KEF was always known as “KEF”. NAD on the other hand stands for something. Like BMW or BBC. (Sure KEF was derived from the site it was founded on but no one understands KEF to mean Kent Engineering & Foundry).
I believe "in-band phase alignment" means that in the relevant frequency band (40-100 hz. or so for music) the subwoofers and mains will be both time-aligned and phase-aligned. You can have a speaker/sub system that is time-aligned, but not phase-aligned, because the phase of the relevant waveform from mains and sub(s) is X degrees out of alignment with each other even though it reaches the ears at the same time. There is a great deal of debate as to whether phase alignment is audible, however, while time-alignment most definitely is due to cancellation/nulling which is most dramatically evidenced by a suck-out in the crossover region between subs and mains.
"In-band phase alignment" simply refers to the phase alignment and relationship between any two drivers Within The Crossover Region. IOW, within the range of frequencies that overlap and which both drivers are playing concurrently, which is determined by the type/alignment of the Crossover being used (Bessel, Butterworth, Linkwitz-Riley, etc.), the Center Frequency, and the Slope in dB/Octave of both the HPF & LPF. Obtaining an ideal Phase Alignment between any two drivers Within The Crossover Region is THE most important factor for enabling a group of separate drive units (a multi-way loudspeaker) to act as ONE...i.e. a single point source. And the Phase Alignment has a significant impact on Dynamic Transients, Coherence/Clarity/Detail, and Imaging Cues. And, Yes, Time Alignment is very important as well. But "Phase Alignment" (or not) is definitely audible. I could demonstrate this to you in real time if you were to sit in the MLP of one of my high-end car audio systems which use a 12-channel DSP while I adjusted the phase between the Subwoofer & Midbass drivers in real time. With Smaart v8/v9, OpenSoundMeter, or JL Audio's TüN v4.x acoustic measurement and DSP software (for JL's VXi series of DSP-amplifiers), you could see a real-time visual representation of the acoustic phase alignment as it changes on the graph. JL Audio has posted a few tutorials and demonstration videos on utoob which show this in real time when using their TüN software combined with their MAX acoustic measurement system (5 microphone array and USB audio interface) with their multi-channel VXi series of DSP-amplifiers. And if I were to save 2 separate presets in the DSP using one that is set with ideal phase alignment and another where it is out of alignment by ~45° or more, you would instantly hear the difference as I switched between the two presets. The apparent "speed" of the bass and midbass, its dynamic impact & punch, and its resolution/clarity/detail, as well as its impression of being "locked" upfront with the rest of the soundstage are instantly affected and are audible. I also use the miniDSP C-DSP 8-12 processor with DIRAC Live in one of my car audio systems with excellent results. And to achieve great sound (especially an accurate deep, wide, and linear soundstage with pinpoint imaging) in a car audio environment is orders of magnitude more difficult compared to a home audio system.
@@bbfoto7248 I only noted that there was debate, as there is an almost all things audio-related, but fwiw I agree with you that phase alignment is audible. I believe time-alignment is the priority in the region under discussion by Darko, however, which is the crossover region between mains and subs where there is no 'pinpoint' detail to speak of, and the perceptibility of bass transients is almost entirely conditioned by reverberation times.
I say it both ways, and I have no idea why, or when I say either. I have an older NAD M32 and I mainly use it with the newest chromecast. It wakes the amp up, when I cast to the chromecast groups in my home. A great solution. Besides that, all the tv i watch on my chromecast, automatically goes through my amp.
I always look forward to your videos and podcasts, as well as checking the website. Thank you for all the effort you and your team put into making them. I really appreciate it.
Hi John, I think it's great that you focus more on DSP/ room correction and integration of subwoofers these days. I kind of miss the attention on non standard DACs from a few years back though. R2R and multbit DACs sound different and to my ears way better than price comparable standard chip DACs ( including the RME). While tastes are different, IMO the dac typology choice can have a noticable impact on how a system sounds. Based that it would be nice to include something like Denafrips, Schiit, Audio GD, etc into DAC comparisons moving forward.
Great video! Thank you as I have been waiting for a review of the M66. I was considering offerings from Technics, Hagel, Anthem and Parasound but leaning NAD. This nails it. I do wonder if this is too costly for a 2 ch when you can add another $2,500 and get a Marantz AV10 or Anthem AVM 90 which reportedly, have the same level of measured performance in the 2 ch domain. (Based off the M33 measurements by some.) NOTHING beats the clean look of the M66 paired with the M23 though! That is SICK looking and a Technics SL-1200 G-S would look amazing between them! Cheers!
NAD is derived originally from New Acoustic Dimension. It was a consortium of US dealers looking for an alternative to low profit and low quality Japanese brands. The plain cosmetic was a stark contrast to the typical Japanese receiver’s light show, jokingly called ‘Tokyo by Night’ and text advertising front panels of several useless features. Dealers would hold “Dealer Congress” meetings, voting on models and features they wanted produced. From the beginning it has been N A D. I was a manufacturer rep in their early days.
Target curve experimentation can change the entire sound of the configuration, and is a huge strength of DIRAC if you enjoy experimentation. I didn't like DIRAC's out of the box target curve (too lean in the low-end) and also didn't like what it was doing to the presentation of my speakers in the midrange and treble, which are KEF LS50 Meta which has an excellent crossover implementation and directivity that's close to ideal. I imported a +4DB Harman target and 'pulled the blinds' on the correction to the Schroeder frequency for my room, and saved a second filter with correction out to 600 hz. I used the third and fourth filter positions for +6DB and +8DB curves for when I really want to bump the bass. I can now live happily with any of them.
I have the M12 and M22V2 predecessors for about 4 years now, the performance and flexibility is great - the bang for buck was huge in terms of sound quality, I chose it over many more prestigious names costing the same or more. Using with Dynaudio Confidence 20 speakers. Tempted to try the M66 and or adding a second M22v2, and a brace of subs. P.S I think that was a clip from the new Grandaddy video, which I love! Esp that song Watercooler.
❤ very informative video , beautifully edited as always John! It would be fun if you also experience with some high end Japanese brands like Luxman / Accuphase!
I had mine on pre-order for about 4 months but it arrived today. It’s matched with the M23, and GoldenEar Triton 1s. I can honestly say this is about as end game system I can imagine.
Nice video. I have NAD C658 with ELAC Navis ARF51 and I was thinking about upgrade to Master series M66 but the price and the fact that DAC is only a bit better to now older RME is a big con.
Damn outstanding video. I cannot imagine the time it takes for you to complete one of these. BTW, your room looks fantastic! Nice job by you and the techs you had in during the early days.
Thank you so much for this, I've been waiting for your review before I pull the trigger on one. I can see my current black boxes shelves cables etc saying goodbye. NAD or N.A.D ..... well it was sold as NAD 3020 when I bought mine back in the 80's, but who really cares... I think it was about 100quid I couldn't afford what I wanted to drive the Linn KAN mk1 but it did a grand job for quite a few years.
For 6000 euros, one would expect the M66 DAC to outperform a 1200 euro dac. So this doesn’t make the M66 an all in one box streamer, dac, preamp, if you still need an external dac.
You do a great job with good balance and reasonable price ranges. Well done and great work including the dynamic duo show! I have Neumann mics and headphones and am jealous you’re so close to them.
Got to admit, I've really enjoyed my Nads...(NADs). The T758 V3i is great for the TV surround system but digitized the analog whereas the C658 in our stereo system lets you choose between analog and digitized inputs. Like some other people we now have two abodes which also sport my THIRD Nad...(??). The M10 V2 is great for a mixture of both the other two but is all digital (with original LS50s and an SVS Micro 300). Fun stuff!
Very interesting but i dont want to give up my Auralic Vega G2 dac with the possibility of Auralic bringing Dirac into their newer products (i have my eye on the Aries G2.2). Will keep saving the pennies and see what this year brings. great vid as always
Love the music selection as always and always loved that Bad Seeds clip with Jason Donovan. I am moving back to Australia in 18 months and looking at dedicated systems and lounge/family room systems so good info
I’m curious what you think about the Lyngdorf TDAI 3400 and N.A.D. M23 in comparison to using the M66 as a preamp and why it was not in the side by side comparisons, because I know how much you like the Lyngdorf/N.A.D. combo :)
i'm keen to know also. I have 3400/M23 combo and love it, but would like to know comparison. I expect that you have 3400/M23 in Berlin whilst M66/M23 is in Lisbon? difficult to do side by side.
Well, this has just thrown a spanner in the works, I have an M33 and was considering switching out for Michi Pre/Power to drive a pair of B&W 804d4 and hope by the time I do it, there will be a new iteration of the Michi range with full streaming (roon ready specifically) and HDMI eArc. Looks like this might be the business. BTW, NAD is a TLA so it should be spelled out! 😄
I would assume „in band phase alignment „ is basically saying that the alignment is phase aligned by concentrating on the frequency „band“ that is the spectrum where the crossover between sub and tops where they are both producing the same frequencies, this is basically what we professionals do when aligning large PA systems or Studio systems, I would be very wary of having subs randomly put around the room while you can phase and time align the speakers this will then only give you a result in one spot, but this can also be detrimental while this can create nodes in other parts of the room that can then be detrimental to the sound in the listening position, I could show you this on a pro speaker simulation program, would also be interesting to see the measured results using for example AMFG SysTune (Berlin boys! Maybe you should give them a visit). What you should be trying to do with multiple subs is arrange them into some system that focuses the energy and has a beam formed cardiod pattern, in this way you maximise the sound in the listening area and minimise the amount of energy going to near boundaries and corners, this then gives you a far larger and even SPL area with minimised build-up in corners etc. the aim should be to set up the subs in such a way that they are then producing one coherent wave focused on the listing area and minimising energy build up at boundaries or in corners. If you have enough subs you can also place them in the build up areas and use them to destructively dissipate the energy there, you can buy subs that do that automatically, they have a built-in microphone and dsp and they then „remove“ the bass energy locally to where they are placed. If you are ever in Hannover send a message and I can show you a venue where I have such a system built in.sorry for being so long winded, it is basically very dry science at the end of the day, physics…..schön Tag noch!
All well and good, those options for adjusting your sound. But then you have to have a hi-fi shop that can set this up optimally and let's be honest, not everyone can do this. There aren't that many Terry Ellis(s). But there is no doubt that both N.A.D. and Hegel market top products. Btw, great and clear video. Grtz Phil
Nad/bluesound have brutal wifi issues. My m10 and powernodes are so disappointing. The fact you had this same issue on a brand new device is disappointing but sadly not surprising. Their customer service doesn’t care. They just blame your wifi router hang up. Meanwhile my wiim devices work flawlessly in the same locations. I now use a wiim to my m10. But the m10 auto sense doesn’t work most of the time. “Master series”?
I worked in coffee for a long time in NYC, and I was ALWAYS impressed with Five Elephant. I'd always go to their booths at NY Coffee Fest and buy a bag of coffee. Needless to say, I'm jealous!
The DAC test was interesting. As I understand it, the comparison was between the NAD natively streaming and a setup that used a Cambridge streamer into a DAC and then into the analog only side of the NAD. Superficially it would seem that the more apples to apples test would be to compare the latter setup to the Cambridge streamer going directly into a digital input of of the NAD. Curious as to why you did not do that.
I also have experienced problems with the Google Mesh system (both the first generation and the second) and resolved the problem by replacing it with a competitor’s product.
I wish too. But I'm afraid record output is increasingly no more regardless of manufacturer, especially digital outputs - "they" don't want us to record anything
I guess it will works at it's best being used as a streamer / preamp / Dirac Bass Management / DAC for subs and then just use a digital output to a greater DAC before a great amp.
Excited about review!! I just ABed a pass labs int 25 Border Patrol DAC Node to Sony ES 5000 and was not impressed with Sony as 2 channel but love it's avr sound bubble. Never had pleasure of trying new high end class D though
Like the way preamps are moving with the inclusion of Dirac. Yes, some purists, the same ones who "poo poo" on the use of EQ would not like it, but the rest of us with imperfect rooms and speakers welcome it. Four subwoofer outs seems a bit excessive, but no harm in their being on there.
This is a truly awesome product that aligns with my listening ethos of managed multi sub and room eq setups. If anyone is willing to learn and manually set up this kind of system, the MiniDSP Flex is a great option for a fraction of the price.
No it does not have DLBC available. The functionality of DLBC can be replicated manually using REW, measurement microphone, Multi Subwoofer Optimizer, and a lot of time to time and phase align subs to each other and then to speakers
If I want the M66 as an option for a home theater setup, amplified by an M33, what could I put I between so I wouldn’t lose quality but could switch sources? A processor like that Marantz AV10, Stormaudio or the like?
Both ... I have owned since the 90s starting with the NAD 3020 then up to 3100/2100/5000/KEF104.2. I feel though the NAD lineage followed Peter Lyndorf to the Lyndorf TDAI3400. NAD has not carried it's original character. I wish it did as Lenbrook owns NAD which is Canadian.
BlueOS hardware/sotware in my experience has put me off NAD/Lenbrook for life; my first Node blew up its power supply and I’ve just had the wifi board replaced on my 2 1/2 year old N130. Never Another Device.
This seems aimed at someone who needs MM and MC phono, balanced inputs and outputs, has 2, 3, or 4 subwoofers, wants to connect a TV via HDMI, needs several additional analog and digital inputs, and is wedded to BluOS or wants to be. At $5499 US, it should have more than a 3 year warranty.
Most of the streamer/preamps, the M66 included, have decent but not state of the art built-in headphone amps, which would be fine if they allowed the connection of a separate headphone amp via a fixed line out. Ideally you would be able to set it up for fixed RCA out (for headphone amp) and variable XLR out (for speaker power amp), but you typically can't do that. The only streamer/preamp I know that supports this is the Simaudio Moon 390. If one wants a high quality system that supports both speakers and a separate headphone amp, I'm not sure what would be the way to go
Great review. Thank you. I am looking forward to see other new generation of preamps. It is interesting that e.g Marantz Cinema 50/40/30 and also Denon 3800 and up have 4 independent subwoofer outs. Exactly as NAD M66. For Marantz/Denon it is expected to have Dirac ART be available this year. There is a question whether it will be also available for M66. If so, than this is a very compelling offer of features in one box. From audio stand point of view very exciting times.
I prefer separates. Don't really go for all singing and dancing equipment. Rather have separate Dac, Pre-amp, Streamer and CD Player. That way you have more control over your sound. All this will give you is NADs house sound.
NAD stands for Never Again Doodoo. My C390DD has been an unreliable piece of junk. I think I spent its retail price in repairs during the first 10 years of ownership. My Bluesound starts to disintegrate into sticky goo. I tried out the M10 which had serious connectivity issues. Oh and it went into standby out of nowhere. Therefore I returned it. It’s a shame that a company has such promising products but fails on reliability. Currently rocking on with my Arcam SA30 which is very basic in the streaming department but so far solid as a tank.
nice vid as always. m66 is c658 just on steroids. however its a similar device and to expensive in my eyes in comparison. hooking that unit up to active loudspeakers wont make any difference to the c658 i bet.
Analogue direct is something that traditional receivers have done for a while now. My old Yamah RX-V595a has this and I actually have to use it in direct mode because the DSP chip failed (common issue with these model years from Yamaha). DSP most of the time is nothing more than a fancy EQ anyway and I tend to leave it turned off most of the time.
