Keith, I'd like to know why. I think it's always good to hear people's opinions on things. It allows us to draw our own conclusions and most educated decisions when we can get as many different points of view as we can.
Oh, go on the , make a video. But I'd say 75% of all YT videos are influential people (notice I reject the use of 'that' word) 'reviewing' things that I don't actually need but now want as a result of the video.
As a rifle manufacturer primarily 22lr. I've seen an overwhelming request for installing EC V2 tuners. I personally like to brag that my builds while aimed towards NRL22 or PRS22 DO NOT need tuners, many do not completely understand how tuners work. I personally feel it will setup the shooter to chase an endless rabbit hole in trying to find the tune when all they are doing is chasing environmentals for when that particular 22lr ammo likes to shoot
@@robinepps7274 lol believe everything on YT. But can't see past the video title good for you to judge someone's character over 1 video.... I personally installed his tuners in about 1/3 rifle builds I've done this year with over 410 rifles manufacturered and personally tested down range, they absolutely work and mentioned in many of my videos. Theirs an application for it in 22lr, benchrest, f-class as well as all other shooting discipline. We're all here to learn, opinions and ones experience can help gain knowledge for the community. Ignorant comments are just a plague
@@MrBoostin18 .....My highly experienced colleagues & I, aswell, experienced them to be an added variable - in other words a joke - first experiences being back in 1980 about with the winchester boss system,....ALL this tuner crap here in the past few years is just more trend & hype for the young-newbies whom never study history to gain future ideas in technology......."doing the same thing over & over expecting different results is a definition of insanity".......lol
@@ericrumpel3105 i have no room to talk. I’m planning to run a brake on my next build. I figured if I’m going to do that might as well run a tuner brake in case i ever wanted to go down that rabbit hole. If not i will just leave it set to 0 and use it as a brake only.
Tuners don’t work. If someone can statiscally prove Bryan Litz wrong, I’ll throw them back on my barrels. In the meantime my rifles seem to shoot beyond just fine.
Yes I want a tuner video 😅 I’ve heard the new applied ballistics book mentions them in a less positive manner as well (not read myself and don’t know details) so your insight would be welcomed. I enjoy that you are straight shooting (pun intended) and have actively avoided becoming financially incentivised in your content (given products to push etc)… your humour also translates to us brits quite well 😂 please keep up the great content!
Please do the video. I personally don't agree"with prevailing tuner theory or with ladder testing. I have never seen a test data set that supports the accepted conclusions and I know from much experience that understanding tuner performance and validating ladder testing would be very expensive and time consuming. In fact, I believe it would take so many test rounds to prove out a tuner there wouldn't be much service life left in the barrel.
Yes, tuner video! It would be great to hear a few angles on the story, but certainly yours first which means F-Open. If there is any gas left in the tank afterwards... hearing about smallbore, Short Range Bench Rest, and light carry, with respect to tuners it would be great!
Oh Keith you scoundrel. Better get cracking on that video. I want to know why you don't use tuners. I'm comment 411. And I want the INFO! See what I did there?
Sure as long as it's in line with your other quality videos. Such as velocity truths vid. Though at the same time brian litz' data is very telling already 😁
I'd like to hear your thoughts Keith. Byran Litz did an extensive test on tuners. His results did not support the tuner manufacturers' claim that they be used to find a repeatable high precision load.
I would be interested to learn how you are able to achieve your enviable results without a tuner. I note that the two barrels you showed in your recent video appeared to be "bull barrels" (or similar) perhaps that is part of the reason why you don't require a tuner to manage barrel harmonics?
I would like to know your thoughts. I think if you do your load development correctly you won't need one and from what I have seen at matches, they can make things worse.
I for one would love to know why. I will never be able to shoot like you Pro's but really enjoy your contributions and see how you make these rifles so precise! Thank you Keith and look forward to your tuner video!
Yes, I'd like to hear your thoughts on tuners. For someone who doesn't handload, it would be a viable option to tighten groups. I'd think that it could offer benefits on AR platforms, since most of those barrels are already threaded.
I dont have a tuner on my 28 Nosler and it shoots just fine. Last test was at 440 yards and it shot under .25 moa. Using a tuner is a method. Certainly not necessary and I imagine for most, just empties your wallet. I put a tuner on my .243 played with it and took it off. I also bought a tuner for my .30-06 and will play with it. I may keep it on for the brake that is part of the tuner.
I remember when Browning put them on the shelf rifles. Nobody liked them. I was shooting 500 yard hunting rifle, any position. Nobody used them. I remember the gunsmith that alot of guys used didn't advertise them. So I just ignored their existence. Why don't you make a show on picking a load for a new gun. How to look at the Lyman manual and pick one to start with. How about a 140 gr 6.5x284. I'm just prepping the brass this weekend. Then I fireform with a cast bullet for fun. So I'll need to order that powder. Probably take 2 pounds. That's what, $100 now. Any suggestions which one???
I installed a Harrell's tuner/brake on my FACTORY Rem. 700 223 and my 5 shot groups @ 100 yds. reduced from 5/8" to 3/8" using Sierra 69gr. @ 2800 fps. Personally I think tuner/brakes shine on factory barrels ps: those barrels you have shown are huge chunks of steel and I doubt they vibrate at all
Tuner makers are upset...money. Your logic was perfect. If you tune to a specific condition and move...you either settle for the previous tune (or your load + or- a tune) or RE-tune. At a match it's not really possible...you said it. At a hunt you may be able but if you move lets say higher or lower or the conditions change the tune will as well. Hummmm
I'd love to hear why you think a tuner is a bad idea. I have a engineering type friend who makes his own suppressors, some with a built in break and some without. He runs at least 4 hunting rifles (all 30 cal) and has many more suppressors. He swops them around and ALWAYS blames the different points of impact on the handloads. A bunch of us have tried to point out that he should stick to one device per rifle but he's not convinced. Are we wrong?
Yes please make a video on tuners as there are numerous contradicting information regarding ...if it is necessary/useful....how to properly adjust rhe increments for thin and thick barrels ....is it useful on really big diameter barrels like 34mm. Thx for good informative videos.
Keith, I wont use a tuner either. Too many variables that change for me as a hunter to be able to use it. Might be good one day at home, but no good the week after on a sheep hunt at 7000 feet😉
The subject of barrel tuning is complex. There is an entire engineering discipline dedicated to the subject called vibrations. From my experience as an engineer, I would say the temperature of the barrel is more important that a tiny weight at the end of the barrel. Every barrel has a harmonic frequency, that is a frequency at which it reaches resonance. This frequency is affected by barrel length, barrel thickness, and barrel material. A shorter thicker barrel will have a higher frequency but lower amplitude. The amplitude is what we see on paper. The barrel material property that affects frequency and amplitude is modulus of elasticity. Modulus of elasticity is affected by temperature. Modulus of elasticity also changes from material to material. Carbon fiber has a much higher modulus of elasticity than steel.
Why no tuner? Have we been not tuning the ammo to the barrel? I would think either method would work. No guess as to which method is more cost effective..
I'd like that video to include background about harmonics, positive compensation in load development, and if possible use in 22lr shooting. and why it seems my best tune is the 'zero' mark-is it just additional weight(I forget how it compared to bare metal), and if used for variable like temperature at different location what would be the least shots needed to decide best tune(as I understand it a barrel only has a limited number of shots at the competition level).. haha need to compare cost to setting the seating depth at the match set up.
I would like the video. My logic tells me that it could be beneficial but at splitting hairs levels, but only at the very end of a load development for the last variable to tune. First find stable powder charge for es, and then find seating depth for accuracy and make sure you are at just below the furthest out seating depth for erosion over time, then primer crush for both es and accuracy, then verify es via powder again for a safety zone in case it moved because of seating and primer, and then and only then use a tuner. If you tune a barrel for an unstable load, you are going to be disappointed next time you go out. And this is all after sorting brass and primers and using quality components and wearing a tinfoil hat.😜
I don't see a need for a tuner for myself as I'm not competing in any small group disciplines these days, and if I was, it wouldn't be allowed anyway. But the insight you gained into what you like or don't like about them by using them, is valuable to people who may want to invest in them. I agree people think it is an wasy button to save effort at the range, that isn't necessarily as easy as they think it may be.
Keith has already previously stated why he doesn't use tuners. In his experience, a barrel tuner will not help a properly tuned load shoot any better. A barrel tuner is for tuning a barrel to the load you are shooting. Load development is to tune the load to the barrel. Keith develops a load to suit his barrel and that is not improved by a tuner.
Tuners are the best things since sliced bread for us mortals that can’t afford a custom built rifle. The EC Tuner is Voodoo magic on every rifle I have put it on, and has saved me $$$$ on ammo.
Typically your viewers and other youtubers in this neish have the same viewers or at least a significant over lap and read the same blogs etc so question are asked of other content creators when someone creates a video on a topic .this generates interest and you creators are always looking for ideas for content. You have a financial interest in posting content ,controversial content/topics gets more views.... .others may also have an interest in selling tuners they talk about them constantly, you just may not notice.....this is also true of people who use a product or system and believe in its validity .the simple fact is tunner work ,do you need one ,thats the debate
yes please. lets see. the problem is some people say it works and some say it doesnt. Some people leaving you to believe that there is some type of barrel or ammo that benefits from a tuner. But the only way to know is find a rifle it works on and figure out why. it seems like the process of elimination could determine which variables can be impacted by a tuner if you find one that works.
I'll comment. Lets see what you say and ol eric sayss in rebuttal. To me i dont know ish from ish. But seems like a placebo, but also seems like just aligning weight of the barrel. So idk
Time to explain why tune load and not to tune a load... Barrel tuners never made sense to me!. If anyone takes time to tune the load to its rifle then why reload?.. Please do explain?.....
Since you can tune your own ammo. I see a tuner specifically for factory ammo. Nothing more. If your handloads are so shitty that you need a tuner to fix them, you should start over...
Yes I would like to know also. I have one but have never dialed it in yet. People swear by them, but I cannot comment on them until I actually use it:)
I'm up for one. I do most of my testing in the winter and my matches are summer and fall. I'm using an EC tuner on my 6br norma. I won my first benchrest match this year using it. I'm wondering if it buggers the bullet leaving the muzzle.
Id be very interested in your thougts on tunners. I learn a great deal from your vids as you seem to buck the trendy gimmicks and and stick to tried and true basics proven to work.
I would like to hear your thoughts on this topic. Over the last year I have been playing around with two 308 WIN rifle builds for my fun and knowledge. Both use 308 FTR 30" barrels, same scope, same brass, 2000.20X Berger bullets, same powders, same primers, same processes. Only difference is the action, one "stock", one "target". I just sent the stock barreled action away to get a tuner installed. Looking to see if it changes the performance of the rifle. I figure if the "cheaper", lower end, action/rifle can be improved with at tuner then maybe I would consider it for some of my other builds. I anticipate that one of the answers might be that you can do the same thing with bullet seating depth as you can with a tuner. I am looking forward to seeing if that is true and/or if one is easier. So, YES! I would like to hear your input. I will still run my own "tests", but I always respect your views.
If you know your load for environmentals then tuners are just another thing to go wrong, and I see it all the time. But I don't believe in radars either.
