Now Snap-On Copied Harbor Freight? A better ratcheting wrench? 

Appreciate it! It's why we post in the morning, so you guys can watch it whenever you want throughout the day. Our YT analytics tab yells at us often about how we're not posting when our audience is awake/watching most, with lots of highlighted data. I'm like nah, I'm usually with the family Friday evening - people should just watch it whenever they want. We've had several creators larger than us tell us we're crazy.

​@@TorqueTestChannel ❤😀😄 makes my Fridays better ❤

"what new tool am I going to want to buy on this bright Friday morning?"

@@TorqueTestChannel If you have a good idea, it's quite common to be told you're crazy in spite of compelling evidence to the contrary. 😉

@@TorqueTestChannel I almost always watch on Friday. I rarely let it slip to another day. I don't even use these type of tools often, I just like testing things, measuring them, and writing it down.

With these you do get top notch performance though

​@@CranAlleydoesn't matter, they're not worth $160. You're paying for the name.

That's why they gotta charge so much. Rock ain't cheap.

​@damienirvin777 You're paying for lifetime warranty, the tool truck visiting YOU, USA made (supporting American workers), and the best overall wrench available on the market.

​@@CranAlleyI'll stick with my mountain

Thank you for being a good one!

​@@TorqueTestChannelI'll add that I've never even had a slight problem with their warranty at either of my stores

This explains why I see tons of stuff on the discount rack at my local store with a single missing piece!

Thanks for the insider info. I always heard the sold-as-set then replaced-as-set

@@Typh3621I always wondered about that too.

Butts were puckered around the set-up well before these broke. Things have definitely changed in the last 10-15 years!

my 7 year old daughter got a GW ratcheting wrench to give out with one hand ona 12mm nut...instant return. i have an old 2000s GW 10mm and i can put whole body weight on it and it wont skip. GW is trash now

ive been using my gearwrench ratcheting wreches as breaker bars for awhile now and no issues lol

One has to imagine that this is a trickle down of metallurgy and mechanical engineering with the technology available in software modeling packages and foundries just getting better and more consistent when making good steel. When I worked at a store selling knives there was a point where any decent knife maker had the equipment to machine and temper designer knife steel. Then the knock offs got access and the game change. Even Spyderco had to come up with their own “copycat” brand (Byrd) to compete with the actual copycats. These days you can get knives made with various tool and ball bearing steels that have been processed in such a way that you can get them sharp enough to shave, do stupid crap that would break the tips off or chip the edge in a 440 blade at the same hardness, and then actually sharpen them back. As people like to say, “we are living in the future.”

@@rileychu4489 There's a guy here who sells well finished but cheap Chinese tools. A few years ago he refused to carry the 10 mm ratcheting wrench because they're used the most and therefore break the most. These wrenches were definitely light duty tools at one time.

Agreed on all points

They recently had the 40% off ICON sale. I spent way to much but I could justify it by knowing I would only have to buy all of them once and they would never be on sale for less.

Easy warranty makes this style wrench from Icon a no brainer. If I didn't already own Mountain wrenches, I'd buy them from Icon.

I guess the Harbor Freight has gotten better but somewhat not as cheap as when it first opened ? Especially the "Icon" or "Doyle" compared against the original Pittsburgh ?

@@thebarslug it did not apply to these wrenches and they have not gone on sale for a long time unless your a ITC member.

It would just be a straight line ramping up until the wrench broke. Impact wrenches on the torque absorber are putting out variable torques as they ramp up to their max, pushy is outputting consistent torque until failure.

Correct, the impact dyno is torque over time because each impact hits differently and climbs at a different rate. Pushy is a fixed rate, the time aspect isn't based on tool performance

​@@TorqueTestChannel is it, though? Pushy rotates at a constant rate, but the output shaft won't necessarily get a linear response. Kinda like you feel when a wrench is going to slip or bolt is going to break. Force over angle would be an awesome graph to see!

@@kain0m The difference between tools would be primarily the amount the length of the wrench deflects, which I'm not convinced is a worthwhile dyno graph as most people will not understand what the X axis vs y means, and it's not all that informative in buying one vs the other

@@TorqueTestChannel it would be fun for those in the know though, maybe a small graph in the corner of the screen

You're not weird. I am in the same boat. I bought S-O for over 30 years, with some MAC and Matco mixed in (usually oversized wrenches by those brands). About 5 years ago, I fired my S-O tool truck guy. He started showing up less often, and rarely had my replacement parts even though I had requested them on multiple visits. It started to feel like he only cared about making money (I know, that is important) and less about servicing the customer now that I had a very complete collection of tools and wasn't buying as many. In a moment of frustration, I bought some ICON tools, and had the guys in the shop try them. They all thought they were as nice in the hand, and as functional, as the S-O tools, and they started buying them for themselves. Make no mistake, there is a sense of refinement with S-O tools, but because the ICONs are basically copies, I can't tell the difference when in use. My mistake was buying a very comprehensive set of Gearwrench tools for my sons. They are good-ish, just not great. The biggest issue is the chamfer on the sockets and box ends of the wrenches. It is too pronounced and too often allows them to cam off a fastener, rounding it or burring it. It might sound petty, but a small feature like this is enough to make me refuse to use them.

Bro that ain’t weird picking things that are appropriate for your situation. It’s weird when there are better options in a supposed free market but people pay for the name in some instances .

​@@matthewpeterson3329not petty if it's mangling your fasteners

@@Jjmartin1530 some people are happy to drive in a chevette some people want to drive in a cadillac , personal choice.

The icon 10/8 is also perfect for air disc brake adjustment. It stays in my pm box for that very reason.

Thanks, we'll discuss here about its weighting.

I dont know ,if backdrag is so important then the gear wrench with only 1 degree away for $160 for the whole set makes more sense. I understand Snapon was the best here hands down but to say the margins it beat them by is worth 8x the price is a hard swallow. I think at $500ish the Snapon have a great argument for being worth it, but at over $800 it’s like damn what are we doing lol

@@bigbrown2690 The backdrag weighting is important, because with the current score-weight, the Snap-On's backdrag could be 0.25 lb-ft or 3 lb-in (!) and it'd still come out ahead in this ranking.

@@MrMartinSchou Yeah I think backdrag is super important too, I just meant Gearwrench was only 1 degree away from Snapon so to say Snapon is worth 8x the price over 1 degree is where I was like ehhhhh. Honestly surprised the Icon backdrag was so bad!

I was going to say move the decimal over one on strength and it would look about right to me

Unlike normal ratchets, most of these wrenches are sealed and non-serviceable.... I guess you could dunk them in some ATF overnight, I've hear that helps some of these units you cannot open up.

The icon's felt plenty greasy! Maybe it only made it to the outside of the wrench :P

I was thinking exactly this. Todd over at Projectfarm taught me that no 2 lubricants perform the same and that there can be significant variance even in items that look identical. I would totally believe that HF cheaped out on the grease quality, and it would be cool to see some comparisons of one tools performance but with various types of lubricants.

Really waking up all techs to the Snap-On "better steel" sales pitch, because everyone loves to have the privilege to blow $800 to take their wrench to 366Nm.

HF doesn't have anything to do with it. They get it from KABO.

Also $800 set not really making HF shudder.

@@reubensandwich9249 HF sets the price though.

YO!!!!!!!!! Never thought I’d see you comment here! Love your videos bro!

Can't usually leave work unless it's your lunch time in my experience, but the weekend access is nice which tool trucks cant touch.

@@TorqueTestChannel true. Tool trucks don't show up every day though. At least not ours.

facts i drive by harbor on the way to work and to home it's only 5 minutes from my work so it's a win win

I've been trying to tell people this for 20 years. At least a dozen broken sockets & several ratchets they refused to warranty.

Have an officer put a stop on tool orders until that gets resolved and they'll warranty things very quickly. Gotta keep the cash flowing.

years ago I worked at a different location and needed a tool warranted, snap-off says he couldn't warranty it because I didn't buy it from him. Snapoff sucks.

so they wont or cant?

@@scottyee707 They come up with excuses not to warranty, you rarely hear about it because Snappy fan-girls will bite your ankles at anyone not justifying their $130,000 in wasted money. Snappy is so self-entitled they claimed I "abused" my tools, the truth is their sockets are prone to cracking and any veteran mechanic will tell you this. Their metal is strong but it's also a touch too hard. It's not the quality it was 40 years ago.

ATD K-tool mountain icon platinum all the same wrenches

Have had the Platinum XL flex head offset wrenches for about 6 years and haven't broke one yet, but I'm not trying to! Flex is weak looking but very impressed with durability. GEARWRENCH, not so much. Have the non-reversing XL and the quad box wrenches fail often but I do use them hard daily. Warranty is an issue as the stores I bought them from can't seem to get replacements, and others that handle Gearwrench don't sell the same types of wrenches. The Snap-On non-reversing has been similar in duribility and not able to disassemble to repair, but easy to get warranty. Snap-On also does not make the larger sizes, stopping at 3/4, 19mm. As I use 21 & 24 mm every day for front end work on cars this is the sizes I need the most. PS have the Platinum XL reversing flex wrenches through 27x30mm.

Did they replace the obviously defective wrench ?

The fact that Snap-On doesn't have a HF-like warranty today just blows my mind - if there was ANY brand that should have a legit 'no questions asked' lifetime warranty, I mean...

And then everyone clapped

what ? wow . snap on not giving lifetime warranty on these but charging outrageous prices .what the hell

I have been a automotive mechanic for about 40 yrs now. Bought a lot of snapon and many others. Warranty the tool first , probably just a defect every manufacture has them. However frankly when I hear someone breaks a tool either it be a snap on or cheapo they usually chose the wrong tool for the job. I have never broken a wrench. Ratchest maybe have worn out the heads maybe 5 times due to heavy use. Sockets(impact) maybe 6 or so after a lot of impact gun use, chrome never.

Me too

Same, literally my go to on everything

@@wIzKid16100 yup

@@martinsmith2948 i wish I had these 20 years ago

If it is really stuck on a sharp rap with a hammer may be needed and there is no way I want to do that on a ratcheting set.

Lol, I'm a technician with 17 years experience all on the tools, no office years. I have had my blue point set for 15 years of double box ratchet spanners, with flex heads. I break lose everything with them, I never grab another spanner to break stuff lose, I don't get failures very often I think two have broke in 15 years, both replaced under warranty. Plus they don't make flex head non ratchet spanners, likely because the ratchet ones are strong enough.

There’s tons of funny out there that love to show off “ it’s snap on”. 😂

I buy some of their stuff but the prices on sets like this are asinine. I let them know they don't care.

Some of us prefer quality over chinesium garbage. Don't get me wrong, I am far from a "Snap-On fanboi". Most of my tools are old school Craftsman, SK, Armstrong, Lang, Proto, Wright, etc, but most of those other companies have "dried up" when it comes to quality Made in USA tools; leaving Snap-On with little competition in that regard.

@@puterg0d Kind of why I find myself with some Snap-On. I try to get SK or Proto as they are made in USA mostly but sometimes Snap-On is close enough in price or has a special tool that is worth it.

@@NONO-hz4vo SK isn't anymore. You can still find some NOS SK tools, and I've even bought some myself recently, due to the quality for the price, but you can kiss that warranty goodbye unless you're OK with having your Made in USA SK replaced with a Made in China SK (I'm not - I'll throw it in the trash if it breaks and by a Wright or Snap-On). I do have a decent amount of SK tools before they got bought out, but again, I now look at them as "disposal" IF they ever break (which is not likely, as they are very good quality tools) since any replacement would be a lesser chinesium tool that I don't want.

Here's some additional tid-bits. Mountain is a tool line by ISN or Integrated Supply Network. A massive tool warehouse in the USA that sells to a lot of tool retailers. They used to have a somewhat extensive line in Mountain, then developed Monster tools and Mountain got left behind except for these wrenches which always sold well. Monster tools got sued into oblivion by Monster energy drinks because they used a similar color and sort of font like idiots, so only a few tools like these remain from their old line left. Their most recent line is K-Tool also discussed here, same set.

I have some of EZRED's 1/4 drive flex head ratchet wrenches. So so dang handy.

@@operator8014Pretty sweet indeed

What about the ones VIM tools sells ?

@@nathanhakala4859 are they double Ratcheting ends like these?

I remember in their own short the ratchet wasn’t actually making any progress in the demo, watch the socket.

I bought the Snap-on gearless ratchets, the 1/4 and 3/8 drive, they sit in my tool box and never get used. I tried to undo something fairly tight with the 3/8 one and the sprauge bearings bit into the body and put dents there, I can feel them. Gearless is not so great.

Except you can repair their products and they don't become obsolete after a few years

Says the poor person that can’t afford them

@@nordicpride9708 we calling people poor for not buying 80 dollar wrenches now? Thats food for a week

​@@Delalcon $800 for the reversible set of 5 wrenches.

@@nordicpride9708 How do you know he is poor? I stuff the money I save buying Harbor Freight instead of Snap on in the S&P 500 and pull 10% returns.

Pavlov at work.

That Snap-On won?

@@afellowinnewengland6142 that snapon won while putting mechanics into crippling debt

A separate "value" column would be nice.

Agree. And also, possibly, an "Warranty Coverage and Availability", measuring both the length of the warranty and how easy it is to use. Be hard to measure, maybe, but it is definitely a major consideration.

We don't submit THESE from testing for warranty unless it's for info in the video about the process. We still have these broken. We do warranty our own tools though that we break doing just as stupid stuff by hand using them.

@@TorqueTestChannel OK. That seems very reasonable.

I'd looked at that set on the shelf a few times already and that was my concern. Are you bumping it often enough to where it's worth the snap-on premium and wait?

​@@zrobotics$800? Don't think it's possible to be worth that much.

​@@zroboticsI use mine every day for 3 years... I don't bump it very often at all

@@FusionBoost2.0 what are you working on? I love the Snapon ones, and especially the regular box end Snapon ratcheting wrenches.

@@michaelstjohn6086 automotive... I've used the mountains every single day 5 days a week for over 3 years now and not once have I had an issue with them.

Your Mountain wrenches are the EXACT wrenches as the ICON (Kabo).

@@nordicpride9708 But for less money, so

@@nordicpride9708 I know they are lol

Your comment is the only reason I noticed it lmao

Correct, depending on how much ease of warranty factors for you

Yes. Absolutely yes. I have some, they will go to my son because I am buying the Snap-On set after seeing this video. The $800 is still hard to swallow, but after seeing this, and the rest of the details (better design, Made in USA, what others are successfully selling the chinesum ones for, etc), it's a little bit easier to swallow, especially with a cold beer to wash it down...

@@puterg0dI have the Snap-Ons and wouldn’t give them up for any of the others. 10/10 would buy them again.

Unless they don't swap out your tools, maybe you bought them from a different truck guy and he doesn't want to warranty yours. My dad had a LOT of trouble with this, because he bought his snap on tools through his fortune 500 workplace.

Exactly

Yeah if the tool truck came monday morning and you broke a tool monday afternoon, you dont have a tool for a week when that truck comes back around. With my icon i can go out that night after work and pick one up. And with the $355 i saved pit it towards a nice dinner. Shit with all the money saved from buying icon over snap on i can literally buy a brand new car.

Wow, you know it did cost me $500 to drive to harbor freight the other day with my Osprey and the cost of jet fuel. Maybe Snap on is worth it for the service!

@@BigInjun05 I've never had a Snap-on franchisee that wasn't willing to make a trip to me on an off day. Try again.

Yep. I really like my Mountain wrenches, but I know 100% that they aren't very heavy duty.

Or you take the $600 you saved and invest in and in the odd chance you break a wrench that $600+ covers your inconvenience. The only reason I buy anything from Snap-On is because they are American made. I don't particularly care to send so much money to China or Taiwan when I can keep it here.

Come from a family of auto mechanics working in both their own shops or in dealerships, just don't buy the cheapest tools your and are fine. Unless you are making $800 and hr and going to get a tool you don't have a backup for or an alternate means then maybe it is too costly. This is why for some of the specialty tools the Snap-On is worth the price, but for a standard box end set, you are wasting your money.

I only buy snap on and Mac. My customers pay for the best of the best. No compromise.

@JackTorrance333 you need snap on or mac to do a good job?

@@NONO-hz4vo I want the finest of everything to do my jobs. I charge enough to warrant it. It’s taken me decades to achieve this level so it should come as no surprise.

@@JackTorrance333 fair enough. F1 teams almost exclusively use Facom Beta and Snap On.

All these brands are lifetime warranty, also snap-on technically has a clause that their tool warranties are only for original purchaser, not something any other brand limits people on.

Even with everything you've mentioned, they're still not worth their laughably absurd prices.

Harbor Freight is also a lifetime warranty, they don’t give a crap about who the original purchaser is, and you don’t have to wait in the tool truck guy to show up. Just take it to the store and exchange it. So ya know… there’s that

Found the snap-on dealer lol

Not true, retail stores also impose that original purchaser limit, they often arent checked at the counter, but per corporate rules its original purchaser only. ​@greasemonkeymechanic1

Kabo Tools is the original mfg, they're the ONLY mfg. Mountain is the Amazon brand. Mountain, Icon, Matco, Cornwell, etc ... they are all made by Kabo because Kabo isn't licensing their patent.

Weird way to announce how wrong you are 😭

@@silicon212 Correct. Thought Mountain isn't an Amazon brand, Mountain is a tool line by ISN, Integrated Supply Network. A massive tool warehouse in the USA to sell to a lot of tool retailers. They used to have a somewhat extensive line, then developed Monster tools and mountain got left behind except for these wrenches which always sold well. Monster tools got sued into oblivion by Monster energy drinks because they used a similar color and sort of font like idiots, so only a few tools like these remain from their old line left.

@rawalqayyum5128 Kabo released in 3rd quarter 2020, mountain released in 1st quarter 2019. There is a trail all over the net and on review sites showing this. Thank you for playing.

Mountain is a brand owned by Integrated Supply Network (ISN). ISN is a pretty large tool distributor, they import, market, and sometimes brand other OEM tools like these wrenches. They also supply other companies such as MAC and Snapon (not these Snapon wrenches obviously but other tools) as well as a bunch of store brands. The OEM for these wrenches is Kabo in Taiwan. ISN is just the an importer/distributor and launched them under their Mountain brand. Dollars to donuts they are the ones importing them for all the other brands selling them. They also own KTool which was mentioned in the video as well.

This would be our 22nd episode featuring hand tools and other lifetime tools that list the price but do not rank based on price, going back to the beginning of the channel. Many of my tools are 3rd generation, how much my grandfather paid is probably not a huge factor for me. Cordless power tools on the other hand seem to have a 3-5 year cycle.

I'd buy that

@TorqueTestChannel love your channel, I only trust you guys and project farm for testing tools

@@GrumpyIan How?

Good catch on the aircat, just fixed that! The new page is being built out, takes a bit longer with the new format. We're getting the hang of it though

Okay, it's live now

@@TorqueTestChannel Hell yeah, love to see it.