NTSB Docket Wings Over Dallas B-17 Mid-Air Collision Nov 2022 

There hasn't been an incident that pissed me off more than this in a long time. Totally avoidable and an absolute tragedy.

Big ups to Juan for being able to effectively co-host a video. It speaks volumes that someone with Juan's level of knowledge and experience can shut up and let someone else talk. I know it sounds like a basic thing but it's surprising how rare that skill actually is. It takes respect, and imho it deserves respect

Thank you Juan for covering this in detail. Len Root was my cousin. We are anxious to see what NTSB conclusions are, and the resulting changes to make Air Boss selection and requirements more stringent! Letn and I used to run around together as teens in a hot rod! We miss him dearly!

No way I'm watching a 50 minute video. Ended up not only watching completely, but also backing a few times to make sure I fully understood. The quality of the content of this video is outstanding. Juan is not only an expert in his field, he is also a great educator and presenter. Very concise and clear information.

The absolute disgust in Juan's voice at 31:06.... pretty much summarizes our collective feelings about the whole ordeal.

I was a army air traffic controller in Vietnam working high density VFR traffic for a year,and i am no more qualified to be an air boss than my mother would be , this tagic accident was insane beyond belief!!!

Hard to believe its been that long. It's still unbelievable to watch what happened. Thanks JB for your true journalism

Juan and Scott, my 2 absolute favorites!!

I frequently flew with Craig Hutain at my airline. I always looked forward to safe and easy trip, whenever I saw his name on my trip. He was a very detail-oriented, thorough Captain. He was assertive and clearly in charge, but had respect for his FO and did not feel the need to override me, just because he was "the captain". While operating flights with him, he would frequently ask my opinion. If he felt that what I had said fit the situation better, he would change his plan. He was very easy to get along with and was one of those captains, whom IMHO, had a true passion for flying and never took safety lightly. Overall, he was a good guy. I retired in 2020, and I hadn't seen him since that time. Very sad. RIP Craig.

That day will be etched into my memory for the rest of my life. I was a half mile away from where the collision occurred and i still have nightmares of them colliding, I startle awake to the sound of the B-17 hitting the ground and i wake up in a cold sweat.

In music, if the conductor falls off the podium, you follow the beat. These guys were following a 'conductor' that didn't even know the song. So tragic.

I am surprised that the pilots were willing to do this show without a proper briefing! Tragic loss. You guys did a fantastic breakdown. Thank you for the effort

If you watch the Bob Hoover tribute movie “ Flying the Feathered Edge”, airshow pilot Sean Tucker relates how Bob took him under his wing and cautioned him that he was pushing it too close, and the crowd would never notice if he flew his routine 100’ higher. The Dallas CAF air boss could have used similar advice. The crowd would never know the difference had the bombers and fighters simply flew past them. Unfortunately the air boss gave them a show they will never forget.

I feel a few parallels between this and the "Rust" shooting. Someone taught by their dad a highly respected man in his field. Was in over their head and didn't know what they didn't know. And used what they knew incorrectly

This incident is a glaring example of the consequences when people keep their mouths shut, when they should in fact be LOUDLY protesting the callous disregard for safety that led to this tragedy. So many people could have stepped up to say NO, we can’t run this show this way, but apparently nobody did. They all willingly participated, knowing the danger, for reasons that seem obvious and foolish to me. The airboss certainly bears significant blame, but many of these very experienced pilots share some of the blame themselves for not stepping back and saying NO, we need to do this the right way or not at all.

Thank you Juan and Scott for such clear, concise and respectful coverage of this tragedy, two gentlemen of the air.

I worked as airport ops supervisor at another CAF airshow where they have some planes based. And if it’s the same airboss then it doesn’t surprise me one bit.

Thank you Juan for the excellent review. I hope that "airboss" (and I use that term very loosely) NEVER gets to lead any type of show again. I also hope that ALL pilots performing demand a rock solid and well laid out plan of the show given at the briefing, and if it doesn't feel right-SPEAK UP! We lost two irreplaceable aircraft and lost several excellent pilots and crew in an accident that NEVER should have happened!

Hey, Scott, it's just gone 2310 in London. and when you suddenly showed up, I cracked a smile. Thanks to you two, I'll be up late. Thank you both.

My appreciation for professional pilots keeps growing. Thank you for this in depth explanation. The photos are incredible and sad because lives were lost.

People should go back and watch Juan's "Cal Fire Aviation Sandbox Training Exercise 2022" to gain an appreciation of great planning and choreography.

Wonderful to see you here Mr Perdue. Thank you for your analysis. Greg, New Zealand.

Over the years we've had a lot of TV programmes made within the UK Red Arrows. A key feature of their displays was everything preplanned, prepracticed. They also used perspective & angles to make things look closer than they really were. Now even they've had tragic accidents, but the goal was to make displays safe and exciting from the ground, focused but almost boring in the air.

Thanks, Juan. This is Keith B. I have decided to chuck my old channel call sign/handle/screen name and stick with this. This was a horrible tragedy. Got Scott Perdue on there. I think from the jump all eyes were on the air boss.

Juan and Scott are two of the all-time greats, IMHO.

A great exposition, Juan. I am shaking my head in disbelief at the incompetence of the Air Boss. Six irreplaceable lives lost and two irreplaceable warbirds destroyed. What a complete disaster.

The more I hear of the Air Boss's "instructions" the sadder and madder I get. "Y'all get that?" "Get in what?" Echelon where? "How close, or high? or....or? Juan and Scott, thank you for the video. 😵

I think the final report is going to tell us exactly what we all know already. That the air boss directed the birds into a pattern that caused a collision.

I was at the Houston Airshow two weeks prior to the incident at Dallas and was listening to the Airboss (same one as at Dallas). At Houston the airboss was orchestrating the airshow rather than flying what was briefed, at one point he instructed a maneuver and the pilot refused saying that the maneuver was not part of the brief. I was also at Dallas and this was one of the worst things I have ever witnessed and was totally avoidable.

I don't fly but go to classic car shows and parades, and there is a solidly laid out sequence, which car goes where, and which road. That is on solid ground with closed roads. Not having a planned routine solidly nailed down before the show is astounding. "Normalization of deviance" - so true.

i watch both of you often and i appreciate your passion and professionalism. i’m no pilot but im the captain of a io-540 airboat … keep up the good work and thanks for following and sharing your passion

7 aircraft in a display, plus a landing aircraft all being directed by one man on the ground in unrehearsed, off the cuff choreography. What a shambles.

This reminds me of the armorer on the “Rust” movie - daughter of an experienced armorer, grew up in the business and learned innately - but didn’t have the overall deep knowledge and extensive experience of her father. Seems really similar with the air boss son, who knows (sorta) how to call air shows by growing up next to his father, but had very little real flight experience and no military or formation experience

The anniversary of a crash at Pope afb was just a few days ago. The tower had an F16 coming in too hot and rammed into the back of a C130. This plane crashed into a formation of 82nd airborne troops and killed two dozen of them. Same idea, two different aircraft with different flight profiles and approach speeds and they could not see one another. Charles

We enjoyed a great visit at KSRC from the Texas Raiders B-17 on July 7, 2021, as they stopped for refueling and hamburgers. Thank you Juan and Scott for this report. Both of you always have an excellent analysis of aircraft incidents.

I am still shaken by seeing this in person

It sounds like the air boss should be facing a trial.

Great show/evaluation guys. The pictures make me want to cry. 👨‍🚒

I watch FlyWire all the time too. You guys make a good team, do more.

I had a dream I was a airline passenger, almost falling asleep with my earbuds in. Then suddenly, the opening theme song to Blancolirio comes on. I went ahead and pulled the door and jumped out.

Flew in five different Oshkosh years in the warbird shows, three flights per year so have been through 15 air boss briefings (Wade Boggs) and at every one, the flight patterns were displayed on a huge blackboard for the fighters, bombers, trainers (AT-6, T-28, T-34) L birds, and jets before the briefing even started. Every group was separated by altitude or east/west side of the show line. Always felt like the group leads had the SA to know where everyone was and where they were going to be. Of course that was 12 years ago ….

A BODY SHOP??? The loss of personnel / aircraft breaks my heart every time I re-visit this story. :( So glad to see Juan co-host this video with Scott. These two gentlemen (respects to Dan Gryder) are among the very best YT aircraft accident evaluators there are. Great job gentlemen!

You two guys are the definition of synergy. 2 experts working together perfectly. More of this!

Excellent video Juan and Scott. Thank you guys for laying it all our for us.

I used to be a CAF member, I used to donate a lot of money to pay for things such a re-engining "Fi-Fi", etc; and I used to pay lots of money to ride on the CAF warbirds. Because of this incident and how egregious it was in terms of CAF culture, management and leadership, I wrote them a formal letter saying that until they took steps to change the culture that allowed this to happen, I was withholding all support except my membership. They never acknowledged my letter, and just keep sending letters asking for money as if nothing had happened. So I wrote a letter explaining why I was not renewing my membership, and they ignored that. I no longer have any faith in CAF organization, management, or anything really. Breaks my heart, but I will not continue to support a broken institution of their sort.😢

I certainly heard the "All clear" from the air boss. He certainly gave that impression.

The screen grab of the B-17 and the P-63 merged together is amazing and heartbreaking. Condolences to the families of all those lost in this terrible mishap. Apparently, it was a “Master Class” in how NOT to boss an air show.

When I saw that Scott your guest I knew this would be a great colab video. This video also only felt like it was 20 min, excellently presented by the both of you.

Excellent job gentlemen. This is one that never should have happened. The airboss clearly bears the brunt of the responsibility here. However, I do wonder why given the level of experience of the guys in the fighters and bombers that one of them didn't say NO this is just too dangerous to proceed and refuse to continue. It's great that the CAF has revised their airshow procedures but a damn shame that 6 people had to die to make that happen.

You 2 guys work so well together. Very comprehensive analysis. Just like the one you 2 did on the 909 B17. Great reporting.

Madness!! Why no altitude difference?? The air boss is ultimately responsible but why didn't any of the pilots raise this at the briefing?

I used to work for the Australia International Airshow at Avalon. I'm totally shocked at how this display was briefed and run. Our multiple Air Bosses for different displays were all former Air Force Pilots with lots of formation experience, and each one was mentored by a Senior and Experienced Air Boss before they were allowed to run a section of the Air Display. There was always altitude separation. At briefings, the display pilots were encouraged to point out issues so the plan could be reworked. Safety was always the number one priority. On top of that, we had spotters around the airfield who would call out deviations to avoid things going wrong that the Air Boss might have missed, or couldn't see from his vantage point. This show seems completely haphazard. I'm totally shocked that none of the pilots called safety issues out during the briefing.

Those pictures are just nuts. Incredible.

Enjoyed this collaboration with Scott of FlyWire. His channel is a favorite, too.

Look forward to my weekly blancolirio video - and I'm not even a pilot!

Normalization of deviance seems to becoming normal nowadays. Save costs, make it cooler. Just like OceanGate and Boeing.

I have flown during the Warbird show at Oshkosh, and one thing that is done different is, no 2 groups are at the same altitude, everyone has a assigned altitude to be at when they are holding or passing over the field. Even similar types are at different altitudes, T-6s, T-28s, T-34s are all at separate altitudes.

Thank you mr. Juan and mr. Scott, sorry for the loss of your collegues, very sad day for aviation, yalls time and efforts on YT does make a difference and gives all a chance to learn.

Just got off work. Thank you Juan for giving me something incredible to watch while I eat dinner

What an absolute " Charlie Foxtrot " that airboss created ........and did so without any briefings or pre-planning occurring. Let's hope that future airshow AB's learn from this tragic incident.

Love him or hate him, Dan Gryder's expose into the Airboss' [lack of] background and nepotism was pretty damning. It will be interesting to see any follow-up of new legal action with a finalized investigation published.

A loose cannon Air Boss, pilots who had a busy and complicated pattern to fly with multiple other aircraft and the pressure to perform. What could possibly go wrong. I still wonder to this day (as Juan also says) why didn't anyone involved in this tragedy speak up to explain how risky this flying was when the Air Boss is instructing 'on the fly'. Looking at the flight pattern it reminds me more of a rats nest and not a well organised airshow circuit.

Juan and Scott together again! You two work so well together. This is one of the best reviews because of your ability to listen to each other and your knowledge of what you're speaking about!

I thought the Bombers and Fighters were also supposed the have 500 ft plus of vertical separation.

Getting "news" from two trusted and knowledgeable people, with no agenda to push, is awesome. Sad to say it's so noticeably different than what we get the usual way from all the other "news" channels. Thanks, Juan & Scott, for doing what you do. It's appreciated!

I have seen so many warbird shows in my life time, and I will never again take an "Air Boss" for granted ever again. The good ones coordinate so well, but inexperience kills.

Those stills are chilling.

Thanks for your time puting this together, gents! Such an avoidable tragedy :(

I was there for this (reenactor camp) and it still baffles me why this air boss was in charge, given his lack of qualification.

6:29 Formation 101. When you are in a turning rejoin never lose sight. If you do, roll wings level and undershoot. This is taught to all UPT student pilots in AF Phase 2 and Navy Primary.

Thank You that was excellent! Those pictures showed me how impossible it is flying at those speeds and have milliseconds to react to situations! I will be thinking about this for a long time.

Thank you Juan and Scott for this accident analysis.

Thanks Juan. Also, I’ve been watching the shipping channel you recommended.

fantastic follow up and much respect to both Juan and Scott for their explanations following the NTSB report it was possibly one of THE worst air show accidents ever, with loss of life and such epic aircraft, all irreplaceable i could never understand there not being separation in altitude between the aircraft, fighters and bombers, and you'd think the pilots might have said something during the briefing, following aircraft in formation is one thing, but there seems to be no indication as to why any of the pilots being aware of the visibility issues associated with high and low winged planes at the same height turning into each other (to me the pilots seemed to have forgotten this rule and nothing discussed, ok so i wasn't there) and i guess the air boss just was not familiar with this either and turned a blind eye to it focussing on other stuff i wonder why and how he was aloud to use these configurations of dog bone flying with cross overs (we would never use this here in the UK following the accident at Shoreham), utter madness, and i kind of feel sorry for the air boss having made this dreadful error, it just seems there was not enough detail brought into sight at the briefing, how he gained his experience after his father, and i bet his father feels dreadful having handed the reigns over - all such a waste surely a simple rule has to made here any more than three aircraft in the air, get separated in groups at set heights, its almost better to have the planes fly head on, fighters passing under or over the bombers at a fixed height, never mind trying to make a super show for the crowd - omg and there was a plane waiting to go out and another landing - this air boss had too many things going on at the same time, i bet his brain was working so slowly the microsoft simulation was rather good to see, even if the B17 was visible, in perspective, while the P63 flies faster, and the B17 slower, in flight the B17 would likely look stationery and not be seen - rather like passing a tree branch along side a road, while its ahead it looks stationery, as you pass it, it appears to move and can startle you to pull out

Thank you Juan and Scott for giving us a clear and concise presentation of this sad event. I can only hope that a lot of good change may come from it.

I was there that day. Very sad indeed. Watching; it happened so fast. At first didn't comprehend it but then realized what happened. The beginning of the parade i remember the bombers at lower altitude in line and the fighters at higher altitude in formation. Then they all were single file and then the collision.

What a treat, listening to two experts at the top of their game, albeit under such sad circumstances.

Thank you for this discussion. Lots of learning there. Strong wish people in this business take this learning very very seriously. You have no idea how much kids love airshows and how even the grown ups keep the child alive in them visiting an airshow.

Appreciate you guys calling out these mind blowing scenarios that were allowed to take place.

If only folk like these two aviators were running the country. Honest, principled and motivated by the safety and well-being of others.

I’ve been going to WW2 weekend at the Reading airport in PA for several years. Every aircraft is grouped together per type. L birds, trainers, etc. They are flown in separate groups. And the altitude increases with the performance of each type. The air boss does a pretty good job with the safety of pilots and planes. No changing the patterns in the middle of the flights. BTW I think Bell produced more than 2 P63s. Anyway great job on breaking down what happened.

As a retired FAA Ops. Inspector and having overseen and was assigned duties to approve the logistics of the "Wings over Houston" and at least one other airshow in Galveston. I had to observe the entire show after earlier having approved showlines and consulted with the airboss well prior to the actual event. It was my assigned function to attend the entire show and communicate any safety issues that crop up with the airboss, it was an unnerving assignment!! I was a retired airline pilot before becoming FAA. BUT...I had no experience in the intricate mechanics of an airshow, no formation flying experience, and no military pilot experience!! I wasn't directed or had official guidance to attend and/or to oversee the pilot's briefing! I had the authority to attend a briefing but it wasn't a requisite. I don't know what today's inspectors have as guidance but it was sadly lacking in my day and I always was so relieved when the last minutes of the last airshow day passed without serious incident.

Something Scott said at the end that “everyone wants to put on a good show” translates to mission mindset

Thank you, gentlemen, for your analysis.

As always, love your content Juan. Thanks for bringing us yet another great piece of insight into what makes swiss cheese form.

The additional problem is that, when 2 aircrafts are a on a collision course, they are not moving relative to their pilots respective field of view. The fact is, the peripheral vision of the eye is specialized at detecting movements, not details. This means that even if the B17 was visible to the P63´s pilot at all times, because it was not moving relative to his field of view, he wouldn’t have been able to detect it until the very last second, when it’s too late to avoid it. Especially because the B17 was mixed with the cluttered background. That is why VFR flying in a crowded airspace, even controlled, imposes constant and active scanning of the field of view. And even then…

A great aviation forensic analysis of a terrible tragedy. Thanks Juan and Scott......Al Scott

I have been waiting for the NTSB report and your review, but wish I did not have to. This just brings tears. Thanks Juan & Scott

Just by way of a clarification, at 34:55 Scott says only two P-63s were produced. He means only two of the F-model were produced, yes ?

You always treat difficult circumstances with respect. Thank you.

Really, really good. Watched the whole thing with a few back-ups to repeat key points. Looking forward to the de- brief on the NTSB final report. Thank you.

So there were actually more than 2 P-63s made (and I'm sure Scott knows this, he probably just accidentally misspoke, happens to all of us). There were however only two P-63 F-Models. I believe they had a larger vertical fin than earlier airplanes and some other finer details. The F-Model that crashed was (emphasis on was), the only one of the two that had survived into the preservation era.

Thank you for this breakdown of the "air boss" incident. I am not a pilot but i grew up around aircraft and i know they all have their limitations. From what you said, this air boss was making things up, and what makes it worse for me is that besides for "de-confliction" this air boss knows near nothing about how aircraft perform. RIP to those lost, and my prayers are with the families and friends involved.

Very well done analysis, gentlemen. The conclusion is inescapable. My heart goes out to the people who have lost loved ones at this event.

The big thing as a lay person is the specific language of flying. (Watching ATC channels and yours, Juan) I’ve heard the controllers correct commercial pilots and rightly so. I’ve never wanted to go to an air show as an adult. I have been as a child.

The both of you did and outstanding job in this video. Just like in many industries sitting listening to the "old heads" explaining exactly what, and how this happened. This shows how much the both of you are very experienced and professionals in your passion and careers. I've been watching JB since the Orville stuff, and always look forward to your content. As you talked about this when it first came out, the root cause is the inexperienced Air Boss, and nepotism. Just because Daddy was a great AB, doesn't mean you are one. Unfortunately, lives of professionals were lost because of it. This is happening in many industries out here, and it's going to continue.

I spent years on flight decks, and we always rehearsed what to do: I spent even more years on the theater deck, and rehearsed what to do. To think that a group of pilots would go into the air, without at least two days of "dry tech," before performing an untried choreography is unthinkable.

An excellent presentation from two guys that I have total faith in. Well done!

This reminds me of the shooting on the set of Rust. The "armorer" was the kid of an experienced Hollywood armorer. When are we gonna stop giving legacy passes to kids? They have to earn it, and prove it, just like anyone else. If you want your kid to take over your restaurant, fine. If you want them to take over your airboss gig or your Hollywood armorer gig - they dang well need to be better than everyone else.

You guys explained this horrible incident perfectly. Thank you. 🎸