Number 12 Cider - HOW TO BOTTLE AND CARBONATE HARD CIDER 

You're welcome!

You're welcome!

Thank you Anders!

Awesome! Good luck.

Fantastic! Good luck!

Thank you Michelle!

Good idea! Couple of thoughts though. The higher alcohol is a flavor element that might be a little strong for most but if its good from your perspective that's all that matters. Also, we have had some yeasts show a pretty high tolerance, closer to 20% than 16 - so people might have to be careful about that a it will make the outcome a little less predictable.

@@Number12Cider Very true and good you mentioned it. You can clearly see I'm no cider expert. People should probably do this with ale yeast, not wine yeast and shoot for lower gravity. Also, with full bodied meads ABV in the range of strong wine is desireble. For a simple cider or in that case apple wine, it could be too strong.

Hi. Thanks for tuning in! Simple answer to the question is no, the finished dry cider does not need to be refrigerated. Good luck on your first batch!

Finished and dry cider does not need to be refrigerated. If you back-sweeten before bottling, you will need to do something to prevent re-fermentation. One way to handle that is to refrigerate right away and drink quickly :)

Hi Peter. MLF is great to mellow out the acidity of cider and it imparts some flavors that we enjoy such as that "butterscotch" note. MLF will often if not usually occur naturally following the primary ferment as long as conditions are right. Probably you will need to make sure the temperature is above 60 degrees f. You can buy an MLF pitch if you like from winery supply stores so look into that. It appears as a very slight ferment with pinprick bubbles appearing when it starts. The MLF can last for months so you may have to be patient. As for the yeast, you will have to try a different yeast. Some yeasts are well compacted and some float more. I would suggest a champagne yeast for a try but yeast imparts so much of the end flavor you are probably going to have to start by finding the yeasts that work best then go with the one that compacts itself the best.

We have used that level of sugar before without incident but it would be wise to use strong bottles if you are going that high. The flip top bottles are often strong enough and leak through a gasket if they are over their capacity. We tend to use champagne bottles for this level of carbonation, which are much more durable than your typical bomber.

Hi. This is a common question. So we made a dry cider in our video which means the sugar was just for "priming" or making it carbonated. That sugar was just enough to give it a good carb but not so much as to blow up a bottle. If you want carbonated cider and to back sweeten, you will need to learn how force carbonate or pasteurize. Check our the Q&A video we are putting up and let me know if you have more questions. With a keg, you can add your sorbate and sulfite blend to kill the yeast, add sugar then keg and carbonate. With pasteurizing, you can add the sugar you need to the bottle both for priming and back sweetening - then pasteurize. As we say in our video - this is tricky and potentially hazardous unless you really know what you are doing.

From my understanding of the video, they didn't add potassium sorbate before bottling it because they left it sit for 2 months until the gravity was zero, which means the sugar was completely used up. There is still a small amount of yeast left in the drained off cider, which when adding the regular sugar they dissolved in water to the batch, then capping it, will activate that small amount of yeast enough to add carbonation to the sealed bottle. If they the potassium sorbate, that would have killed the remaining yeast, which they need in there to create the carbonation. They also said, if you want to back sweeten it and then carbonate it, you need to add a fake sugar that doesn't activate the left over yeast, and also add the regular sugar dissolved in water which will activate the yeast just enough to carbonate it while sealed with a cap. The fake sugar of your choice will be the back sweetener for flavor, and the regular sugar that's dissolved in the water will get used up by the yeast and won't add any sweetening of flavor. The reason the regular dissolved sugar mixed in won't add more alcohol (or very little) is, because the majority of the yeast was left behind in the first container, and there's only a very small amount left that will only get fed enough sugar to add carbonation. Not enough to do much else. That's what I got from the video, and from what I've read and watched in other videos in the past. I hope that helps clarify it a bit more??? Watch the video at about 5:30 in, and he will tell you about the 3 different amounts of regular sugar to dissolve in water that will give you the different levels of carbonation you want.

Oops... I didn't see the reply, so I replied, then saw that there was already a reply...

@@jimjackslak4507 well stated! Yes, sorbate is for neutralizing the yeast, which you do not want to do if you are bottle conditioning. To carbonate before bottling you will need a "counter-pressure filler" which commercial cideries often have but they are very expensive. We will get to a video soon about kegging. You can sorbate and back-sweeten before kegging - which allows you to "force-carbonate." Again, this is how most commercial operators do it but you need to have the equipment for kegging.

Hi. So it depends on how well it is packaged and the circumstances (is it it on lees? did you sparge the head space?) but an otherwise stable cider generally stays good and even improves a little over about 2 years. Sometimes even longer.

Hi. So we use just enough water to dissolve the sugar easily. Maybe 2 cups? Yes, you can add the non fermentable sugar along with the priming sugar.

Exciting! So probably the two most important factors in what the cider will taste like when it is done fermenting, what kind of apples/juice you are using and what kind of yeast you are using. It never ceases to amaze us how different cider can turn out with different yeasts (and the same base juice). Cider and wine cultivars of yeast are tried and true for that purpose but really, any yeast will work to create a fermentation, including bread yeast. We say for your one gallon batch - go for it! Best of luck to you on that. Next time you get some more juice, consider buying one of the yeasts we point out in our video on yeast. The dry yeasts we suggest can be ordered by mail for minimal price.

Hi. So probably using yeast nutrient is typically inconsistent with the philosophy that goes into the wild ferment but yes, yeast nutrient would encourage vigorous ferment of a native yeast.

Hi Rand. So best practice for cider-making is to rack the cider after its primary fermentation and leave the lees behind. This is typically best done within a week or so of the end of that primary fermentation or when SG is at 1.000 or so. After that, typically it is ready to be bottled within 2 or 3 weeks of racking. Experienced cider-makers may go longer if they are encouraging a malo-lactic fermentation and/or they may rack again for further clarification. Bottling with all of that air is ok. Leaving the cider exposed to air over time exposes it to adverse bacteria that may impact flavor or increase dissolved oxygen, which can give a cardboard type taste. Good luck!

Gotcha, thanks again for the explanation and quick reply! Cheers!

Hi Geoff. Maybe?! I cant say that for sure. Obviously you are going to find out by screwing it down really tight and finding out if it holds the pressure of bottle conditioning. I suppose it will depend on how much carbonation you are looking for as well.

@@Number12Cider very good..we'll give it a try! I appreciate your input!

Hi. Yes, we used 22 oz bottles in that video.

Sounds like a fun experiment! In our experience, when you ferment something that is mostly sugar you lose that essence such as you might with agave syrup, but we have not tried this particular experiment. How much agave syrup to add is going to be a different question. You would need to know what amount of sugar is in the syrup per ounce or gram or whatever, and if you can find that out you should be able to come up with the measured dose. Let us know how this works out for you!

Zach - at that point it should be shelf safe and able to sit for long periods of time without refrigeration. There will be some malo-lactic fermentation in the bottle after it is carbonated but not generally enough to cause a cap to come off or bottle breakage.

@@Number12Cider thank you so much!!

You're welcome!

Hi. So it is hard to define the length of time for cider to self-clarify. If you have used pectic enzyme it should happen eventually. Some ciders clarify in a couple of months, some take longer. The yeast will still be there after several months so not to worry.

Interesting... :) You got us here. We are not familiar with such caps but would be interested in hearing how well they work!

I don't pretend to be an expert but most apple juice is going to have a gravity of around 1.050 - or the equivalent , and so about 1.2 lbs of sugar in every gallon. If 1.2 lbs is 19.2 oz, and if for the sake of simplifying the calculations we are to add 1 oz of sugar to each gallon, then you will need to add about 1/20 of a gallon of apple juice. If a US gallon is 3785 ml, then you need to add 3785/20 = or 189.5 ml. PER GALLON, so for five gallons the added volume is 189 *5 or almost 1 liter (1 qt). The extra volume of liquid WILL reduce your ABV, BUT you are adding an equivalent amount of sugar which will produce BOTH ethanol and CO2, so the total impact should be close to zero

Hey Daniel. Yes. This process does create additional sediment in the bottom of bottle. Thanks. To have a carbonated product without any sediment you need to do one of two things: (i) use the champagne method, or (ii) force carbonate the product. We have not offered a video about the champagne method but our videos about kegging and back-sweetening discuss the concept of force carbonating. Hope this helps! Thanks.

@@stephenhance5260 Thanks Stephen! Thats what i thought. I will check that video out. Already sub to your channel :)

Hi. So if you are using water - you should only use as much as you need to get the sugar fully dissolved. So if you have a cup of sugar you probably want at least two cups of water. Another alternative is to pull off a few cups of the cider itself and dissolve the sugar in that. Good luck!

Not familiar with such tablets but yes, a pre-measured dose for each bottle would work as well.

Yes - you can use apple juice concentrate to prime bottles, or unfermented juice and yes, a hydrometer reading is accurate enough we believe. Good luck!

@@Number12Cider Thank you.

Yes - you can do this. This is not going to be an exact science because depending on the yeast and juice, sometimes the product will finish at .997 on the hydrometer and sometimes at 1.000. I would try bottling it at 1.005 and see if that works for you.

@@stephenhance5260 Cheers , I will give it a try and let you know.

No we did not. You could prevent the bottle conditioning by sulfiting before bottling. It is common to use a smaller dosage of sulfite before packaging but with bottle conditioning I would not advise that.

The bottled cider if dry will last several years. Once all of the sugar is fermented out - provided you did not put too much sugar in the bottle for bottle conditioning, there is no further risk of the bottles blowing up. Look at other discussions related to back-sweetening. Thanks!

Definitely add a little yeast at bottling. You may want to be conservative on the priming sugar amount due to the existing sugar in the cider which will likely ferment on the addition of more yeast. Use the same kind of yeast and it should not materially change the quality of the cider but its flavor profile will change over time no matter what you do, but especially if you dry it out more, so if you love it now, you might consider kegging and force carbonating.

Hi Adam. I would suggest you watch our back-sweetening video. The answer is yes, the fermentation process continues. To slow the process you can refrigerate for a time while you drink it up or you can find a way to pasteurize.

@@Number12Cider thanks for your reply, yeah I actually just watched that video, was really helpful. I was thinking of pasteurising by bringing the bottled cider to an adequate temperature but I’ve read that that can affect the taste. Is that your experience or is there anything else I need to be aware of if pasteurising via heat? Thanks again.

@@adam7896 Heat pasteurizing is common and we do not think it impacts taste if kept to a minimum. Your cider will no longer be "live" at that point though, so if you hope for ferment or malo-lactic ferment in the bottle, it will not happen.

Hi. Yes, the bottle conditioning will leave a small amount of sediment in the bottom of the bottle. There are two ways to avoid that. One is to force carbonate the product - using a keg and CO2. See our kegging video. The other is the methode champenoise, which is using gravity to slowly force the "lees" (which is the term for the sediment) to the top of the bottle, freezing the top of the bottles, removing the cap, removing the lees and replacing the cap. This is how traditional Champagne is made and it is obviously labor intensive.

Good question Bryan! Actually we had to look up the word "Maltodextrin" to figure out what you were talking about :) and suffice it to say we have not used it before. We are always interested in learning from our followers' experiments though, so hopefully you will fill us in. From what we see, this appears to be used for body and less for sweetness. It also appears that some component of Maltodextrin is fermentable which suggests lowering the amount of priming sugar you use by a small amount. In the context of non-fermentable (or fermentable) sugars used to back-sweeten a cider, our general practice is to taste the product at a range of levels and pick the one we prefer to determine the amount to add. Good luck!

About 5,3 g per liter :)

WE recommend you watch our video called "back-sweetening cider" :)

Hi John. In general you will have better luck if you store your bottles upright, refrigerate them and handled them gently to avoid stirring up the sediment. Refrigeration keeps the carbonation more in stasis. Also, over-carbonated bottles may bubble so vigorously when opened that they stir up the sediment, particularly if they are not refrigerated. If in doing all of these things you still have carbonation stirring up the sediment you might consider a little less priming sugar next time. Finally, some kinds of yeast are more compacted than others so take note of that while you are working with different yeasts and choose the more compacted ones next season. Good luck. Thanks!

@@Number12Cider Many thanks. I’ll keep you posted.

Great! Look forward to it.

Hi. So if you back sweeten into a sealed package without killing the yeast you will need to drink it soon. See my note above to Delanno de Lima and check out our new Q & A video. Thanks!

Hi. Yes, they work well. Thanks!

70 gallons? Nice! So it can be stored at room temperature and it will probably be good or improve through aging for up to 2 years or so. So hopefully you can drink it in that time :)

@@Number12Cider Thanks, no worries there, I know a few cider lovers!

Hi. In this case no, we did not. This was intended as a dry cider. We will be offering a video on back-sweetening soon for how to keep residual sugar in the cider. We do pasteurize in our facility but have found that process to be a bit difficult in the home cider-making setting.

Hi Kane. Not sure we understand this question. There is no such a thing as "carbonated sugar." Enlighten us if we are missing something. Per the video, we use sugar to allow the product to self-carbonate in the bottle - "priming sugar." With priming sugar you crown "cap" the cider and allow the bottle conditioning to occur which creates the carbonation.

If you put it in the fridge earlier I’m pretty sure it would stop it but not positive

Hi. Yes, for back-sweetening, we will offer a video soon but it is a bit more complicated. If you do as you suggest above you will need to pasteurize the product before the sugar is fermented out. Pasteurization is a bit tricky in the home setting but basically if you heat the bottle up to 160 degrees or so you will kill the yeast and preserve the remaining sugar. Problem is that in heating bottles to that point you often encounter breaking bottles which can be dangerous and messy.

You could pasteurize it but if its a dry cider at that point it should be fairly stable. If you pasteurize it will be stable for longer term shelf storage. Without pasteurization, the malo-lactic fermentation occur in the bottle and add a little pressure/carbonation but in our experience, malo-lactic fermentation is not enough to blow up your bottles. Malo-lactic fermentation however, will change the flavor some, adding butter/butterscotch notes and reducing acidity.

John: We may misunderstand you question here but: not a good idea to do a primary ferment in a sealed bottle as it would build up too much pressure and the bottle will fail. Using sealed glass bottles for a finishing ferment to create light carbonation with a measured dose of priming sugar (as we have done in this video) is common and works well to make a dry sparkling cider. Check out our video on back-sweetening if you were looking for something sweeter. Thanks!

@@Number12Cider thanks so much. That actually cleared it for me. I actually watched that video earlier today. I think I meant to say in the bottles after racking. I'm trying to get my head around carbonation, bottle conditioning and back sweetening. Cheers

Kyle - you can use monk fruit powder for back-sweetening. I would say we do not have a recommendation as it depends on your taste preference. For priming - finer sugar is good for dissolving. Otherwise it doesn't really matter whether it is from cane or otherwise as long as it is fermentable. Good luck!

@@Number12Cider would using biofine clear to fine my cider prior to backsweetening and carbonating still leave my bottled cider with enough yeast to carbonate?

Yes - it should not impact your bottle ferment.

@@Number12Cider EXCELLENT! Thank you guys SO much. your videos rule

A still cider should last years if it is not exposed to air. Typically traditional ciders are known to age well for about 2 years before the aging process no longer adds beneficial flavor characteristics. Pressure can build up through the malo lactic fermentation in the bottle and a still cider can become less than still. Good luck!

Sugar cubes would indeed ferment. Whether they dissolve appropriately is something we have not tested.

@@Number12Cider I may try this and report back.

Hi. So using a wine bottle with a cork is ok as long as you are not seeking carbonation. In other words, no added priming sugar. If you carbonate the product, it will force that cork out of the bottle or break the bottle. For carbonated cider in a bottle you should use a champagne bottle with a cage over the cork to ensure that the bottle is substantial enough not to break and the carbonation does not force the cork out of the bottle.

We are going to say yes. If they are the same basic product. There are instructions out there on how to clean yeast if you are using it for a different product and obviously the lees do not store well so if you are going back to back - that is still a good use.

@@Number12Cider Thanks

Yes you can.

So you can add a little more yeast at the time you bottle along with your priming sugar. That should do the trick.

Hi. We think the best practice is to dissolve the sugar in the cider or water to make it better disperse but it will likely ferment and get dispersed anyway if you just add it in because of the activity associated with fermentation. Good luck!

Yes it will. If you are not concerned about carbonation, you can bottle the dry cider and consume it as a still cider. If you want a carbonated product that is clear, you need to either disgorge the sediment (as with a champagne) or use a different option to carbonate. Disgorging would have to be a new video because there are a few steps. Other than disgorging - you can keg the cider and force carbonate. You can check out our other videos on that - or you can bottle from a pressure tank or keg using a counter-pressure filler. Good luck!

@@Number12Cider will you be doing a video on disgorging?

Hi Stuart. We are familar but not well practiced in disgorging. We are therefore probably not going to cover that topic any time soon. Sorry.

If you add sugar, the yeast will just eat it all

Adding sugar does initially give it a sweet taste, but over time the residual yeast in the product will ferment that sugar, and the product becomes dry. Sometimes that fermentation can cause the bottle to break depending on the amount of sugar you had in the bottle. That process can be slowed by refrigerating the product but eventually the yeast will take care of all of the sugar. Watch our upcoming video on back-sweetening but to add sweetness to the finished cider you need to kill the yeast by pasteurization or by using sorbate.

Swing top bottles are great. We do find from time to time that with higher CO2 levels, they can seep/lose pressure through the rubber gasket but they are otherwise typically very good for home bottling. We have seen them used in the commercial setting as well.

@@Number12Cider I am to the point where I have to purchase bottles. Is there advantage to the round stubby Red Stripe/ Kombucha type bottles vs. long neck bottles? I hear brown colored bottles are the best, but I have some clear swing top bottles already. What would happen if I bottled in clear (also adding sugar for carbonation)? My projects right now are 1 gal jug of peach juice, 1 gal of white cranberry and strawberry juice, 1 gal of passion fruit juice, 1 gal of mango pulp and pineapple juice that I plan on added coconut cream. If these fermentation projects have no apple juice, is it still called cider? Or what would you call it?

Brown or clear - really it makes no difference. Brown are better if the bottles will/may be exposed to sunlight. If you are not making an apple based product it is probably a fruit wine, strawberry wine, peach wine, pineapple wine, etc. Good luck, sounds interesting!

Probably you can bottle it now. The best way to know is to measure the specific gravity which should be at 1.000. But if it is being stored at room temperature and you have seen a vigorous ferment - it is probably ready to bottle.

Yes. We've gotten this question before. Consistency is going to be hard to find with this method because the bottles will not all ferment at the exact same pace. Additionally, the bottles better be pretty strong if you are heat pasteurizing them. Ones that have higher carbonation may tend to break.

@@Number12Cider thanks, so does that imply that the conditioning sugars would ferment at a more even rate then?

@@Number12Cider or is it that you're only giving it enough sugar to ferment enough to carbonate?

@@jaredgray7872 What we do is give it just enough sugar to carbonate. Adding more sugar and attempting to pasteurize before it is fully fermented is going to be difficult to do and inconsistent because the bottles will not likely ferment at the same pace so some will be over-carbonated, possibly to the point of bursting or leaking and some may be under-carbonated.

The caps hold carbonation well up to a point. We have rarely had trouble with bottles not holding the pressure.

Hi Jay. We only add enough sugar to carbonate, but not so much that it will make a bottle bomb. Frankly, in all of my 25 years of cider-making, I have not had a bottle explode from refermentation - though I have no doubt it is possible. I have, on the other hand, had many bottles explode when I was trying to pasteurize...

Maybe less. You can certainly try it in one month and see if its ready :)

I was wondering about DADY. I am just getting started and am a cheap skate. I see you can get it cheaper than bread yeast. How was the DADY cider? My plan is to back sweeten and refrigerate after it is carbonated. I won't be doing huge batches so I should be able to finish it off before bottle bombs become an issue.

Whatever works right! Actually we are using a wand that when it is pressed against the bottom of the bottle starts to fill from that point, minimizing the froth/foam effect. We would recommend using that device because it is cheap and effective but certainly bottles can be filled from the top.

I have that effect on some people ;)