It was pointed out i missed tick damage. Thanks !!. helps my testing. The thunder cage being off was correct and a pool of test show that some time the number is right and sometimes it isnt. more tests will be necessary MESSED UP RELOAD PORTION BUT I EXCLUDED IT ANYWAYS. I AM PLANNING TO LIVE STREAM MY TESTS SO WHEN I MAKE MISTAKES ILE ADD THEM HERE AND CUT IT OUT POST EDIT. JUST INCASE NO ONE CAUGHT THEM IN THE LIVE STREAM YOU TUBE MADE THE MUSIC A BIT TOO LOUD FOR SOME REASON. SORRY EVERYONE.
Probably the best content creator for this game tbh. Seeing the facts, with the math, and little to no fluff, making strides discovering useful info for the game is both refreshing and helpful. Thank you sir!
I do not know if you know this or not but for testing with ultimate weapons the stats on them are "wrong" until you fully upgrade them. The stats on the weapon info panel will show what the stats of the gun will be when its fully upgraded. For instance the reload time on the thunder cage or the fire rate of the smithereens is lower then the sheet says because each time you smash a new one into it they will get those stats as a bonus. The battle pass rocket launcher is a easy way of seeing this. The stat sheet says it has 10 rounds per magazine even when its only rank 1 but only starts out with like 5 and after each new one you combine with it the magazine size goes up till it is maxed and then is 10. This screwed me up while doing some weapon ideas with various ultimate weapons cause I thought for instance with the smithereens its base fire rate was 150 and it was going to go up by 40% but that is not the case, it did not reach 150 till I had combined 4 more into it.
Bungie has differing numbers on the wipe screen for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it is due to the way the boss is coded, sometimes it’s a specific weapon, perk, etc. people use a damage tool to measure the health bar pixels of the boss since health bar is the true accurate measure of when the boss dies. The tool is by “A 2016 Toyota Corolla”, he has a vid on his channel of it if you want to take a look
The always weapons work in the game is closer to warframe. Everything in Destiny is standardized. All weapons start with the same base impact depending upon their archetype. And you can add mods to weapons in Destiny 2 that increase damage or add status effects.
@@kingcurmudgeon8685 You can not add mods to weapons in Destiny 2 that increase damage or add status effects at all. Spec mods used to exist before TFS that increased the damage against the specific enemy type that the spec mod specified by 7.5% the only game that allows weapon modding similar to The First Descendant is Warframe. Destiny 2's systems are far more standardized as EnragedCucco has explained.
@@kingcurmudgeon8685 I’m aware, I just mean that measuring health bar is accurate in destiny and something similar may help to remove inconsistencies in this game. May help determine which number is actually correct, displayed numbers when shooting vs wipe numbers, as one may match the health bar better
Something else that could be amiss is "chunking" like in D2, where you'll do a significantly larger amount of damage to the boss healthbar, but damage numbers that appear on your screen are normal. I'm aware it occurs sometimes depending on connection or animation states of bosses (and we all know how much animatiom locks there are in TFD). I just don't remember if chunked damage gets properly reported at the results screen either, but most likely it's not properly reported.
@@nightismonochrome maybe a similar thing with animation states but seems we are doing the opposite of chunking in tfd, kinda reminds me of when chill clip gjally was showing incorrect numbers so people thought it was good
EDIT: Oh never mind you proc'd two poisons. The damage is accurate. 7:01 7:10 4 x non-crit value of 25042+2093tox 3 x crit value of 69519+5811tox 2 x dot value of 2905*10 ticks 392630 total damage. -The damage difference between total damage and on-screen damage is exactly 10 ticks of your 2905 poison (the duration of the poison matches 10 ticks, though 4 are off-screen). So it is either ticking twice as fast, or counting it twice.- Probably don't use a gun that has non-bullet based damage when testing, if you're not going to look at dot ticks.
@@ryechew I counted the damage on the screen like you asked in the video? I looked at the dot tick of 2905. It ticks 10 times over the duration and it proc'd twice. 4 non-crits, 3 crits, total of 7 bullets. 9 in chamber at start, two left, total of 7 bullets. non-crit value of 25042+2093tox crit value of 69519+5811tox dot value of 2905*10 ticks*2 applications 392630 total damage. There's no hound clip, so I have no idea.
@@smizzmeister "Work blindness" - when you focus on a specific task (damage testing in this case) and don´t notice obvious but small things that influence the end result. It happens to the best of us. My best guess for the Hound disperaty is this: There my be a hidden "level modifier" that influences how much damage certain guns do depending on the level difference between the weapon and the enemy. Some gacha games do this as well so there is precidence for this theory. It usually goes like "You are 20 level below the enemy so you deal X% less damage" and "You are 20 level above the enemy so you deal X% more damage". We would be able to test for this by just using a level 1, 10, 20, 30 and so on Hound against the same boss and see if the damage value is off by the same margine or not.
@@blacktiger9393 We could also test the level difference theory by using the same weapon against different level bosses, and see if there is any disparity.
@@GunarBastos in that case we would need to factor in different levels of damage resistance through armor as well which is way more work then just hoping into a sector and killing a couple dudes to get a weapon of a certain level for infusion. First we would need to test if it exists at all and using different level guns on the same boss is the easiest way to do so. What you´re sugesting would make more sense to find the cap, if the mechanic exists at all, and if the cap differs between bosses (like lower level bosses being more leniant then higher level ones)
@ryechew I think it's fine. Even if the math is wrong, it's still informative enough for us to keep in mind while doing builds. As the game progresses, I'm sure they will improve the numbers, or at least I hope so.
A couple theories, bosses have a hidden mechanic to where they can only take X amount of damage per instance. My group has seen a boss restart his health in an outpost when we wiped him instantly. My second theory, and what I think is probably happening. Damage dealt is client side while damage received for enemies is server side and any amount of packet loss or server issues could cause this to happen.
in an architectural sense, it wouldn't make sense, usually these things go like this: - client: hit/miss (in this game prolly even weak point are client side) - server: uses character's data to calculate damage (rolls dices and applies all buffs and debuffs). most probably this is the reason why you can't change equip during fights
@@dominikb9202 that is usually refferred as hitregs (registered hits) aka you're hitting him, but packet loss/bad coding the server isn't receiving the hit data, while the client is still decreasing your ammo count.
I noticed this issue pretty early in the game and explained it to my friend and he was hella shocked. Im glad others have noticed this since it reminds me of the The Division when it didnt properly calculate dps. so I feel like this ui/algorithm that is showing the damage being wrong is like that game. Thanks for the informative video
Could you test or do you know if “bonus firearm atk against colossus” affix works on rockets? Rockets have explosive atk not firearm atk and they don’t get buffed from descendant mods that specifically say firearm atk.
Server latency is also a thing where some damage instances don't get calculated, but I can imagine a scenario where the damage dealt by the player does not get 100% translated into damage taken by the target
I just figured that the reason the dmg of weapons wouldn't match up with the actual damage is the mob's defenses. Now, if the mobs have no resistances/defense, then my assumption was incorrect and Nexon done F'd up.
The enemies in this game have a floating damage attenuation. Im not sure exactly how the mechanic works, but its not just DR. Theres a calculation on top of DR as well that floats between two values and chosen based on damage output. The more damage you do, the more damage it attenuates... Sometimes. Also the RPM of most guns are correct, it's basically just Thunder Cage that is off. The devs only added the extra 66% RPM on the stat page, which seems just there for community effect to entice certain types of gamers, and nothing more. Not unheard of, D4 adds an extra 66% paper stat to anything thats base 600 in the game just to add community effect and none of the extra 66% actually has a mechanical effect. Its that way in nearly every game.
Yup, figured as much. Remnant 2 and helldivers 2 (iirc) had problems with telling players the actual fire rates/reloads, had to test em all. I’m not very far in the game so I don’t have many weapons but I’ll test what I can and put it in the disc
YES. IT WAS GOOD INSIGHT. THATS WHY I DID THE RELOAD CANCEL THING HERE. BUT A CYCLE OF DAMAGE IS STILL...... 8.24 SECONDS YOU DO 1512 DAMAGE. WHICH IS A FAR CRY FROM 170.... AT THE END OF THE DAY IF I DO X DAMAGE IN X SECONDS.... THATS MY DPS
hey rye, i want to ask if you could do a mana focused video as one of your next project. There is a lot of confusion about it especially with certain mods.
I apologize in advance if you have already answered this. I've only recently discovered your channel and have only watched several videos at this point. But is there any reason why you're not doing this testing in the laboratory? To clarify, im talking about when you're showing testing outside of the lab. Why not do it all in the lab. Im likely missing something and would like to know what.
I think for the executioner, you forgot about the dots that were showing up from the poison. Also, there seems to be some weird defense scaling and damage attenuation, especially with under leveled guns which occurred with the hound. I could be wrong though. Edit: after accounting into dots i got around 370k on my calculator but there were several dots that i knew i couldn't see due to being too close to the boss (dot damage shows near his shoulders) so i don't think the 392630 the game shows is off and if it is, not by much. The number I specifically got after adding everything is 369,390. 6:10 is where the dots started if you want to see and again later multiple times since guns do have a status chance to inflict the status effect on enemies.
Another great video idea I think would be the math between normal/hard mode voids. If it is better to farm mass amounts in hard and use them in normal or to get the extra 1% per drop using in hard mode. Just a thought
I literally only trust your first descendent videos. Other RU-vidrs are lazy with the editing and obviously talk just to talk. I can tell this isn’t your main source of income and you do this for fun which is why you are more non caring with dragging things out.
i STILL MESS UP A LOT. LIKE THE RELOAD PORTION. WHICH I HAVE TO GO IN AND DELETE POST EDIT. i EXCLUDED IT ANYWAYS BUT STILL MESSED UP. MATH IS HARD LOL
When you test the level 1 blue weapon, you get 10% due to the ammo type. You have to account a 10% damage depending on wheter to match the weak ammo type of the enemy
Hello, would you have any interest in perhaps analyzing my Clairvoyance build comparison video or maybe crunching down what you think would be best building up the beam weapon? I made a maxed out Clairvoyance and made a build comparison showcase recently (farmed 5 copies of the weapon).
Destiny 2 also has an issue where the damage numbers at the end of the boss screen are different than what the player actually deals. Theaegisrelic has done extensive testing where he has actual boss health values in terms of actual damage being dealt by the player. Potentially in TFD there is an issue where the bosses health and the end damage numbers do not match up.
I had a half of a write-up on this, but I ran out of time writing it on the previous video like this talking about frame rate, root motion, and pseudo code for waiting for fire cooldown before reload can start. I was gonna talk about fixed update(physics updates) vs regular update(visual updates), as well as server sync (even though holding the fire button *should* remove any server lag). Best way I can come up with to check dps without external tooling is to check over an extended period of multiple reloads. It will be less precise yet more accurate. Maybe mouse/keyboard firmware can be used to hold fire for 30seconds within a few nanoseconds, or autohotkey(though autohotkey may trigger anti-cheat do your research first)or maybe a wireshark log filtered to Fire/Stop Firing packets for timing would make it around anti-cheat... but I don't really wanna mess with that anymore, I gave up writing gamehacks a long time (20yrs?) ago. It's a crazy story...
Initial guess would be: - lower dealt damage: boss defense reduction in action - higher damage: correct firearm attack type But I would assume both to be correct on the damage numbers that show on the screen and "wrong" (i.e. not counted) on the result screen as its more likely not to have been noticed from those two.
The ways weapons work in this game is closer to warframe. Everything in Destiny is standardized. All weapons start with the same base impact depending upon their archetype. And you can add mods to weapons in Destiny 2 that increase damage or add status effects.
Love your vids, from the ones i have seen idk if you have gone over damage over range and gun element such as crunch or pierce vs bosses which explain for more or less damage
Can you test the Python? The unique ability doesn’t seem to work the damage numbers don’t go up. But maybe it weakens their defense and damage numbers don’t go up?
you should consider the latency of rendering the shots at your pc, sending this info to the server, the server calculates the results, send it back to you, your pc gets the info sends it to the gpu, which builds up the images plus ur refresh rate of the monitor. Sure this is all just ms. But it adds up.
i’m late to this damage testing scene, and i didn’t hear it mentioned here, but are we accounting for the burst, pierce, crush matchups? i know it’s a 10% damage boost against enemies that are weak to your damage type, and there it’s 0% if you are not using its weakness. and along with assuming that the game considers it a rock paper scissor in how it works, the enemies possibly have their own damage type, meaning that they are the damage type that is weak to their shown weakness. If so i would love to be informed on all of the ways this plays apart, such as is it additive or multiplicative, or if he already explained it what’s the video title
Sorry for copy paste, just hoping you will see this comment. I'm curious how unique abilities will affect from weapons in the spreadsheet, such as nazeistra's devotion. Will it outdamage perforator with its -30% defence debuff, or will it have a damage drop off in the late game? If you ever get a chance, I'd love to see an in-depth video on that as well. Anyways, you are a legend for making such informative and helpful videos for us, thanks!
One of the things I'm pretty sure that is effecting this is enemy Def and resistance lower level enemies will have less so you do more damage when higher level enemies have more so you do less pretty simple explanation
idk how much destiny 2 you have played but people have tested the health bar movement, damage numbers show in game, and the damage numbers shown at a wipe, and they don’t always line up right, especially when you include other players. i’m not sure why games have massive problems with this but damage does seem to be skewed slightly between what is shown and what is actually done.
Here's a question maybe you know or could do a video on. Does shields have a different defense identifier than health does? Like for instance does 1k of shields do the same thing as 1k of hp. I heard from some people that the defense modifiers don't apply to the shields that's why invest into hp. But if you have like 70% defense it should be for bith shields and hp right?
There is one thing u are missing since begining, thats weapon type. Crush, piercing so on. U can check it on each weapon. Hopefuly it will hlp you with calculations n diviation in numbers!
did you mess up? you added 1.9 instead of 1.19? and then you have 3.19 instead of 4.5 and is much closer to the 3.26 about the averaging out the dps. it is possible, I never looked at it, but I don't hit the same number over and over, no?
I am now wondering if you already factored in the Piercing, Crush and Burst damage factors? I haven't seen all your videos but perhaps this may account for discrepancies 🤔
Weakpoint dmg doesn't even get shown as a potential dmg add when swaping modules. In most cases, the ingame display of dps shows a 1-to-1 being more attack power giving more dps then crit hit or crit dmg. Weakpoint addition form modules gives almost nothing and some modules give different amounts then what they state. A 5% weakpoint adds 0.1 to 2.0 while a 11% gives 0.08 o.O?? Either way, not worth the cap cost. Crit dmg however, 10% is 1.0 added, same with crit chance. Attack power, 10% is 10%.
Just curious have you considered that certain enemies are weaker to different damage types like burst peirce etc ? Also enemies have different resistance and weakness to levels ? Which are values that you can’t really account for because we don’t know resistance levels
You dealt 334,530 damage from your direct shots, but your third and sixth shots applied the toxic DoT affliction for 10 ticks of 2905 per affliction. So the Toxin affliction counted for a total of 58,100 damage which makes up for the 392,630 shown on the end screen. No idea why the lower level weapon showed as it did, though.
The ways weapons work in this game is closer to warframe. Everything in Destiny is standardized. All weapons start with the same base impact depending upon their archetype. And you cant add mods to weapons in Destiny 2 that increase damage or add status effects.
The whole game is a mathematical construct that’s just chaos, mod percentage is just tragic if I have a 26% mod, in info stats tab it translates to a 0.26 like what easy to understand but the dmg is not real then
I’m fairly sure that if you run off the edge of the map it kills you. Idk could help you speed up your testing, you know instead of waiting for the enemy to get through Kyle’s thicc armor lol
I have a question about calculating the damage output of freyna’s 4th ability. I can get the cool-down to 11s but I don’t know the firerate (firerate can also be increased by your equipped weapon and so can mag size from mods) so how would you work that out?
Random Question: Is there any way to test if the static loot table drops from missions can be modified with drop chance increases? For example if I am farming a mod with a 5% drop chance can I increase it with +mod drop chance from my equipment or is that just for world drops?
dmg calculation is just all around borked I had lag that made me go from 200854 to 20k to the head. found tap firing actually fixes this seem to me the server can't calculate the dps fast enough
There are a lot of "lazy" game design in this game, I honestly think a lot of the common guns and stat sheet are not well considered when they make them. I would think dev team spent more time on the ultimate weapons, hopefully you can test most of the weapon with help of the community.
you are not seeing the dark side you are not seeing the dark side... but in all realness i think what you're seeing as that 20% off is what warframe does with double and triple attrition resistances which is then getting added on top of D2's damage model
Destiny definitely shows you DPS on bosses, and also, why would destiny dmg number be off? Bungie been at it for 10 years, This is Nexon first game on console they mainly do mobile games…
Dear god. Please don't tell me Nexon started using Damage Attenuation on Collosi? That's why big crit big damage slow rate weapon had more consistency than faster rate weapon
