On The Aerial Toll House Cult 

Thank you for sharing this video. I'm Jewish and I'm starting my conversion into the Orthodox faith next year. The Aerial Toll House teaching nearly made me turn back and not do my conversion. I was reading about it and watching a video and it filled me with such fear...No...Terror. I've never been so scared for my soul. I know I'm a sinner and I need repentance and forgiveness. That is why I turned to Messiah. Keeping the Torah perfectly is impossible. I sin and I fail. I need a Saviour. I need hope. But this Gnostic teaching made me see no hope. It seemed I would still have to work my own way into heaven without the help of a Redeemer. I thought to myself: "Why even try at all if there is a possibility that I might go to hell anyway." It seemed so hopeless. But I prayed earlier today and told God that I still wish to continue with the conversion even though I don't understand. I felt a lot of peace afterwards. And this video confirmed that peace. Thank you. And God bless. Shalom.

“No matter how absurd the idea of the toll-houses may seem to our “wise men,” they (baptised Orthodox Christians only) will not escape passing through them.” + Saint Theophan the Recluse

It is interesting to note also that Ap. Paul uses the term Liturgy more than once, and that the reference to Energy and Energies occurs about 24 times in the New Testament: all are translated out in English versions.

Where are toll houses mentioned in scripture?

Under pressure, Seraphim softened it. However, the Toll House teaching was condemned as a Gnostic heresy by both St. Irenae of Lyon and St Isaac the Syrian, and quite specifically. Perhaps you should also read the forthcoming book, Gehenna: the nature of hell according to the Orthodox Christian Church.

Can you show me wher st abba isaac the syrian spoke against the toll houses

This is so very true. Juridicalism comes from man's own self-loving desire for vengeance, and so he transfers this self-centred passion to God in his imagination, and then declares it a dogma.

@jediniAleks That is simply not the truth, Jedi. The toll house teaching very clearly states that the demons judge the souls, and those who do not pass muster are taken immediately to hell. I have noticed before that when you toll house fanatics are painted into a corner, you very quickly begin to change the teaching, like Jehovah's Witnesses that are put on the spot. Frankly, you are all liars and in a state of delusion.

@snbeings In fact, we do not have "many saints" who discussed it. We have a very few who repeated a Bogomil legend that was embeded in folk religion, but we do not have +many saints" who discussed it. Near death experiences are notorriously not sound. One sees what one is culurally programmed to seem and people with elpilepsy or psychiatric illnesses are the ones most prone to see these things.

The Pseudo-Makarian homilies can be used for inspirational readings but, since we do not know who actually wrote them, certainly not for doctrine. In any case, one cannot justify the Toll House heresy from them.

It is also important to understand that repentance is not simply a sorrow over specific transgression. It means to "rethink," or in Greek, to "change directions." Repentance is the process of struggling to turn our lives around, to change our perspective, to go in a different spiritual directions. It is not just a negative assessment of our sins.

These videos were very helpful to some of us when dealing with the Cult of Joachim Parr . G-d bless !

Blessed Seraphim Rose believed in Toll House conception and wrote a lot about it in his book " Soul After Death".

Indeed. There is no "passage" through toll houses. The conscience, which is in the soul of man, instantly knows its place. It only awaits the resurrection of the body in order for the destiny to be fulfilled. But the conscience in the soul has already testified and the soul is "to the left or the right" by its own self-knowledge. If one cared to search the Fathers, that is what one will discover.

If you read the history of the struggle with the Bogomils, you will find that "the outwardly confessed the Orthodox Faith, but in their hearts, interpreted it in their own way, and subtly spread their poison among the faithful..." Tsar Peter of Bulgaria.

Thank you for making this post, especially for the quote from my patron saint!

What I have understood is that upon the moment of death the soul is in the presence of either The Good, or, The Torment, as Christ Himself said to the Thief, "Today you shall be with me in Paradise".

There is not one single Father of the Church who even mentions the Toll House idea except for St Irenae of Lyons who calls it a Gnostic heresy. Not one Father of the Church ever mentions anything like Purgatory. While was not strictly the invention of the arch-heretic Augustine of Hippo, he is the one who dogmatised it (along with Limbo, the idea that marriage is a venial sin, etc). So come on, now, give me the name on even on Father of the Church who mentions the Toll Houses. Of course there

@jediniAleks Meanwhile, the words of St Mark of Ephesus telling us that "the Church teaches, and will well able to prove..." that hell will not exist until the second coming and that no-one can be in hell untill after the resurrection and Judgment at the second coming. You should, therefore, carefully read St Mark's "Ten Responses to the Cardinals: A Refutation of Purgatory."

St. Diadochos of Photiki (ca 400 - 486 a.d.) states: “If we do not confess our involuntary sins as we should, we shall discover and ill-defined fear in ourselves at the hour of our death. We who love the Lord should pray that we may be without fear at that time; for if we are afraid then, we will not be able freely to pass by the rulers of the nether world. They will have as their advocate to plead against us the fear which our soul experiences because of its own wickedness. But the soul which rejoices in the love of God, at the hour of its departure, is lifted with the angels of peace above all the hosts of darkness. For it is given wings by spiritual love, since it ceaselessly carries within itself the love which ‘is the fulfilling of the law’ (Rom. 13:10).”

I suppose a word of gratitude is due. I stumbled across this channel about a year ago, and I became am Orthodox catechumen soon after. I'm extremely blessed to say that I was received into the Church in time for Pentecost. Thank you, Father Lazar. You're often an object of criticism and speculation, but believe that you're trying to serve our Lord. May He preserve you and guide your ministry. Amen.

I have a question as a result of what you said, and forgive me if I didn't listen you properly and you already gave the answer: you said our own consciousness judges us. Could it be possible for the toll-house references in the works of Fr. Seraphim Rose and others to simply refer to the ways in which our own consciousness judges us, and not the demons? This is sort'of what I ended up believing right now, but I'm not sure as to the validity of it...

@jediniAleks But to sinners He says, "Depart ye cursed" __ evidently they have not yet departed __ into everlasting fire "prepared" not for you but "for the devil and his angels.

Satan is a liar and a murderer "from the beginning." He has no truth in him and can only slander, never tell the truth. How, then, should he judge the soul which, according to St John Chrysostom, he cannot even approach or see.

Archbishop Lazar. He is reflecting the words of Archpriesr M. Pomozansky, Prof of Dogmatic Theology at Holy Trinity Seminary, Jordanville, NY who said that the Tollhouse tale was an allegory for the function of one's own conscience. He was a student of Fr John Romanides Who had called the Tollhouse teaching "garbage."

as georgian orthodox christian as i understand people directly interpret visions... hell and heaven is state of soul hell is when you are far away with god.. nobody knows how it is in hell or heaven because its not materialistic thats why everbody sees hell, demons angels heaven according in terms and symbols and places like in material world that they are adapted and their brain can interpret.. person also has three bodies material body,spirit and soul... so when person dies and he is back in body that we call near death experience NDE he see it not only by soul also by spirit that is lower and more materialistic then soul... because in order to see soul realm spirit body also must go away in 40 days.. we are creating hell by ourselfs we have to understand that many orthodox people have problem with fear of hell they are more concentrated and fear of demons and hell then in love of god thats why they have this terrible near death experiences because demons want to spread fear in people.. if you fear demons and hell this is where you will end up.. because where there is fear there is no love of god... imagine if the toll houses are true then 99% of people are going to hell so person will think if 99% can not pass toll houses and are going to hell then why i will pray to god i dont like god like this and i dont will follow god like this if i am going to hell anyway... many things such as fear of god is taken of old testament and saint fathers and many are mixing old testament with new testament. god we should not fear god we should love him god is love and compassion.. jesus christ said if somebody makes bad for you forgive him 99 times so as many times as he asks... so if lord said this to human he is god and has more compassion then any human!!!

We are unfortunately aware of this. The Empire might not have fallen so soon had there not been the persecution of the non-Chalcedonians.

Fathers spoke of testing ALWAYS in the context of our lives HERE on earth! Never, never is it taught that AFTER death some kind of demonic gauntlet would have to be run! The soul is bought WITH SO GREAT A PRICE as Christ's Precious Blood!! Toll-houses attract the mentally-ill who are guilt-ridden and simply need to believe and receive forgiveness from Christ Who releases us from Satan's bonds. The Soul belongs to Christ bought with HIS All-Holy Blood, no other, certainly not demons!

The conscience of the supposed believer will certainly judge more sternly, but ultimately, there is no easy excuse for atheism. The conscience does not lie, and the atheist has no genuine excuse. His conscience has certainly led him toward belief; God has even dedicated a segment in our brains for faith and spiritual experience. However, it is the believer who continues in his wickedness who has the most to fear.

@jediniAleks Dear Jedi Knight: better read a few more actually Orthodox text. It is the demons who fear the Theotokos, and flee before her presence, and not the other way around. Of course you, like all toll-housers, are free to worship demons if you wish; that is up to you.

Where are the quotes from St Anthony the Great from?

I realise that some fathers used the idea as a metaphor for what takes place in one's own conscience. However, these are not the ancient fathers that we mentioned, but later fathers, and not all the asserted mentions occur in the authentic writings even of the later fathers. It is quite clear that the Church never even considered such a doctrine. If it was something the Church held, then it would dominate the funeral and memorial services. The Cultism comes about from the fixation on it (more..)

Both are true: if you will study the fathers carefully, you will find, that as St Basil the Great says, the river of fire that proceeds from the throne of Christ is the fire of his love and glory. To some, it is paradise, to others it is hell. The conscience of each will make the determination. St. Cyril of Jerusalem also reminds us that it is the conscience that tells us if we are sheep or goats. How does Christ judge us? By revealing the fulness of his love and glory to us. We will (more)

Your words are, as always, very, very inspiring. A thought occurred to me, as I was listening, that everything from God is for us and for our own salvation: our prayers, our love of God, our repentance, everything is not for Him, but for us. Where, then, do the Toll Houses help us ? Because as you so well say, they make us fear demons more than God Himself! Many atrocities then come from that, such as wanting to repent our sins not for God, but for the demons!

"Folk Religion," it is the blending of folk superstitions with religion; common among peasants and the illiterate, but often carried forth as if it was valid doctrine by some.

@jediniAleks The concept of "Hell" or "Hades" did not exist among the Jews. Sheol refers to the grave and nothing else. The study by Peter Chopelis is very solid. If you have not read it, it is a solid Orthodox study.

@jediniAleks If, therefore, the wicked demons, the first to work evil, for whom hell has especially been prepared and stored up, if they have not yet paid the debt of their fitting condemnation and freely wander about wherever they wish, what reasoning could persuade us that souls which amidst sins have departed from hence are straightaway given over to fire and to those torments which are prepared for others [i.e., the demons]

@jediniAleks Where did Jesus go after the crucifixion? Certainly not to "hell," but to "hades." And what it hades in Christian terminology? It is neither a place nor a geography, but simply the state or condition of the dead. Of course, a brllliant Biblical scholar like you already knows that "hell" and "hades" have nothing in common.

bio, 60...Saint Anthony was sitting on the mountain, and looking up saw in the air some one being borne upwards, and there was much joy among those who met him. Then wondering and deeming a company of that kind to be blessed, he prayed to learn what this might be. And immediately a voice came to him: This is the soul of Amun, the monk at Nitria. Now Amun had persevered in the discipline up to old age; and the distance from Nitria to the mountain where Antony was, was thirteen days journey ."

@StealthGoblin1 Fr. Seraphim was very much part of the hyper-scholastic school and he advocated the idea of juridical justice in the forensic sense. This is why he considered Fr John Romanides, Alexander Kalomiros, Metropolitan Antony Khrapovitsky, Ch. Yanaras, Alexander Schmeman and others all to be heretics.

@jediniAleks The following quites are taken from St Mark of Ephesus, sent in several batches, because of the limitation of space here: But if, as was said, no one has entered either the Kingdom or Gehenna, how is it that we hear concerning the rich man and Lazarus that the former was in fire and torment and spoke with Abraham?

no mention by St. Anthony of any demonic battles after death, or fearful times, or struggles after death for the monk who had just died.

@jediniAleks Accepting this opinion our Church thus is minded and preaches, and She is most ready and well prepared to defend it. Firstly, the Lord in the Gospel according to Matthew describes beforehand the judgment to come, saying, Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit..." __ it is evident that they have not yet inherited __ "the kingdom prepared for you;" "prepared" He says, not "already given."

Certainly you can confess any transgressions, however, that is not all that confession consists in. You should also mention anything that is troubling your soul and causing you grief. Confession is part of the healing process, not just a juridical listing of breaches of some law. By the way, the same sins are also mentioned in the Egyptian Book of the Dead in pretty much the same order as in the tollhouse story. The listing does give a pattern for thinking about one's failings.

@Superloko361 Anyone who has made a careful study of the matter of the Aerial Toll Houses opposes attempts to dogmatise it. Some think that it is a useful theologoumenon or metaphore, but presented as a dogma, it contradicts not only Christ, but well established doctrines of the Orthodox Faith and clear statments of the Holy Fathers. Vladiko Lazar does oppose the dogmatisation of it, not its use as a theologoumenon.

@jediniAleks It it not passing strange that those who are Fundamentalist, Bible Literalists are not the least bit concerned with the fact that there is no correct translation in English? If you find, in your mistranslated text, any mentions of "hell" or anything like "hell," then you need to through it away and get a correct one.

This is quite clear, although it is highly doubtful that St. Makarios is actually the author of the spiritual homilies attributed to him. Before they were edited there was quite a lot that tied them to Massalianism.

@jediniAleks too many to list - my favorite is 2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Excellent presentation!!!!

I'm reading Fr. Seraphim Rose's The Soul After Death right now, first time. I have many thoughts on the aerial toll houses, but something in general I notice is that Fr. Seraphim Rose portrays the aerial toll houses according to strict justice. He notes God's mercy through the angels and the Theotokos, although this seems incidental compared with his emphasis on the relentless attacks of the demons and the attempts at defense by the angels.

longer duration - they are kept in [bad place], but not in order to remain place (for this, as we have said, has not been handed down to us). But some must be cleansed in they very departure from the body, thanks only to fear, as St. Gregory the Dialogist literally shows; while others must be cleansed after the departure from the body, either while remaining in the same earthly place, before they come to worship God and are honored with the lot of the blessed, or - if their sins ...continued

Kindly, Who is this priest?

Fascinating.

Thank you!

Fr. Seraphim translated the teaching on toll houses from many of our holy fathers. St. Theophan the Recluse gave us the two words: toll houses. St. John Maximovitch taught him.

no one said that demons Judge humans but continue to tempt humans even after death and before the Second Coming which is in line with your version of not going to hell or heaven until the Sec How do you or would you teach a Soul to choose Heaven if there is no concept of evil or penalty for bad choices. If a Soul has become drunk with sin for 80 years of earthly sinful lifeond Coming. why would it choose the land of milk and honey when it is wine and women it wants and has been accustomed to?

I agree. It is at best a theologoumenon but those zealous promoters of toll houses desperately want it to be doctrine.

Does the Most Reverend Lazar opposes areial house toll?

So if it is not possible for demons to see the human soul or to approach it, what about the cases of demonic possession? Surely in these cases the demons do infest the human soul and need to be exorcized. What do you say to this, Vladika?

Not that you have brought this up, I think it is time to make a broadcast about this very subject. Often, we think in to human and worldly terms about the words used in Scripture because we are limited to our fallen human experience. I will offer a youTube b'cst on this subject later in the coming week.

Hello father: I have found this aerial toll house nonsense to be quite contradictory as well. Why would any of these demons be over christ in judgement? Why would these things as well happen before? I'm coming back to Orthodox and it seems that this is indeed a heresy.

what do you mean by "God is going to send no one to hell" do you mean of just repentant christians that none will be dragged into hell? does jesus not talk about the risk of hell or being thrown into eternal hellfire?

Luke 10;19: 'I give you power to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over ALL the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you... " And of course, our Saviour is speaking of demons here. 99% of what people think are demonic possession are commonplace mental illnesses. St. J. Chrysostom is not here at the moment for me to ask him your question, but demonic possession is certainly not possession of the soul of man, and it does require one's cooperation.

some well known Gnostic forgeries that do, and that is what one might expect. But even the Latin heretics do not accept the fake "homily of the exodus of the soul" attributed to Cyril of Alexandria, and it is also well established that Makarios of Egypt wrote absolutely nothing. Some ante up, big mouth, and give us some names with the bibliography of their works.

St. Mark of Ephesus wrote: "But if souls have departed this life in faith and love, while nevertheless carrying away with themselves certain faults, whether small ones over which they have not repented at all, or great ones for which - even thought they have repented over them - they did not undertake to show fruits of repentance: such souls, we believe, must be cleansed from this kind of sin, but not by means of some purgatorial fire or a definite punishment in some ... continued

There is no such teaching, that the souls of he departed are "in heaven," since the doctrine of the Orthodox Faith clearly states that the alone cannot be judged, and cannot experience either heaven or hell without the body. So suggest otherwise is sheer, unmitigated Gnostic dualism. St Mark of Ephesus and whole host of the holy fathers, everyone who wrote against the Manchees, say this. You are babbling from the back of your head, and have not bothered to read the fathers of the Church.

@allsaintsmonastery "the kingdom prepared for you" absolutely means-it is ready now. If I prepare a meal for you-it may not be ready just this minute. Yet it is inherent that if I prepare a bed for you to sleep in-it is ready before bed-time. A meal it prepared before dinner time. Therefore Heaven and "bad-place" is prepared before death. But if I have prepar-"ed" a meal for you (past tense) it is ready for you to eat now. Rejoice! There must be a Heaven!

@jediniAleks The Old Testament, if taken literally as a system of law and morality, if much, much worse that the Toll Houses, and God would be seen as more malicious than Satan, and much lower than human beings in the quality of love, compassion and foregiveness.

Thank you for this teaching father. I know this video is old but It still holds as a valuable resource for those of us searching for the truth of Orthodoxy. I believe you make an incredibly rational, and bibically sound case.

continued ... " place (for this, as we have said, has not been handed down to us). But some must be cleansed in they very departure from the body, thanks only to fear, as St. Gregory the Dialogist literally shows; while others must be cleansed after the departure from the body, either while remaining in the same earthly place, before they come to worship God and are honored with the lot of the blessed, or - if their sins were more serious and bind them, for a "... continued

@jediniAleks I am sure that your mistranslations into English are replete with references to "hell." However, there is not a single reference to, hint of or mention of any sort of "hell" or "gehenna" or even "hades" in the Old Testament --- that's right, not a single one. If you Sectarian version of the Bible has forced them into the Text, then you need to start looking for a version of the Bible that is faithful and true to what is actually said there.

Matthew Raphael Johnson has written a great article the "strangeness" of the toll house theory

@allsaintsmonastery The Lord said everything about Lazarus in the manner of a parable, even as He spoke of the ten virgins and in the rest of the parables. The parable of Lazarus has not come to pass in actuality, because the sinners in Gehenna shall not see the righteous who are with Abraham in the Kingdom, nor will any of them know his neighbour, being in that darkness.

I recently had a Christian friend in a car accident that had a Near Death Experience, and was dragged into a torture chamber where he was tortured by Demons until he started praying to Jesus and was rescued. Besides Seraphim Rose discussing it, we have many Saints that discussed it and were said to be shown by God that this is so. Some have experienced this and you haven't so who is right? The one who experienced such a thing or the one who hasn't?

Obviously you have not studied the Byzantine Empire persecution of the Egyptian Copts.

Saint Theodora described her toll-house journey

St. Anthony's monastery has put out a new book on aerial toll houses. Some are trying to use it to debunk you Lazar.

As much as I love the fact that Orthodox is coming to the US I feel like the Americans are bringing in their evangelical nonsense into the faith. Catechism should really take several years to properly deconstruct the new converts.

Infallibility breeds cruelty, cruelty breeds evil.

@allsaintsmonastery Quite the opposite for Matthew; he states "come inherit" and if we come right this minute - it must be ready for us now (before-hand). And "before the judgement to come" - the final judgement has not come we can easily agree - so he beckons us now before the judgement to come into Heaven. We living have not inherited anything - until we die. Matthew preached to the living then and now - and not the dead which you would have to agree even with the "darkness" philosophy.

This is a very controversial subject. The most recent book which is very comprehensive and convincing is called "The Departure of the Soul" according to Orthodox teaching.

@allsaintsmonastery I do not disagree that most demons may fear the Holy Theotokos. But can you speak for all demons, Satan, evil, "dragon" and so on? And regardless if the demons flee - the Holy Theotokos is none the less human - how do you know her mind? Did not Satan himself approach and tempt Christ? One would think from the many references that demons fear Christ more than the Holy Theotokos. As fas as Toll Houses is concerned your arguments have not convinced me one way or the other.

Air stations or by other name toll houses are real.

Would you address--in a future broadcast-- principal grounds for Christians to reject Gnostic claims? The examples of Gnostic claims are many, and you have addressed major examples in this broadcast and elsewhere such as Toll houses (demonic beings or "Archons"). Indeed, you have also covered dangers to Faith in several broadcasts. I ask that you consider creating a broadcast dedicated only to why Gnostic beliefs endanger the practice of Faith in Christ.

OT has been used by Jews for 7500 years or so without "fear" being a "problem". with many ways to view it without "terror" but "perfect fear within Love & forgiveness" & general Love in a healthy literal sense. God has been too fair in the OT & none would be saved according to our sins. I want God to Judge me for He is LOVE and All Compassionate, All Forgiving - All Judging as One who Loves His Creation. OT is a Truthful account for any peoples with all the "black" spots and sheep included.

the toll house teaching is clear from the Fathers and from Scripture, and I'm not even Orthodox!!

were more serious and bind them, for a longer duration - they are kept in [i.e.,bad place], but not in order to remain forever in fire and torment, but as it were in prison and confinement under guard." (until Final Judgement). Therefore St Mark - clearly states "fear" and those who "fear" does not help - it gets worse. What about Satan, Devil, Dragon, demons ...etc. Are you serious that no-one will go to a "bad-place" - do what we like? Jedi needs evidence where "judging" is stated?

Lazar, thank you for your thoughtful discussion. The question is how was S. Rose even a priest? S.Rose has done much damage to those who convert and are babies in the one True Faith, only the Lord knows where he is now. As I pray for those lead astray by him, I do pray for his soul.

There are many reasons why some sinners may never see the righteous - because they are doomed in a bad-place (darkness) with no chance. But the righteous "are in Heaven with Abraham" they "are" in Heaven now. The Holy Theotokos ascended where? Is the Holy Trinity not in Heaven? Do not some martyrs recount just before their deaths as Heaven opening to them & crowns awaiting! Your Hell is the worst possible - nothingness! What a horror -what terror! Lonely Holy Souls in emptiness/darkness!

Bishops Doctors Saints Irenæus of LugDumum described and Pope Doctor Saint Gregorius I the Great DiaLogIst named Purgatory.

Ameen! Vladyka

apologist117 has posted a 2 part refutation that lacks merit if the quote by St. Macarius is fabricated. I do know the quote on St. Anthony backing toll houses makes no sense since I just read his bio by St. Athanasius.

" Do you not know that we are to judge angels?" (1 Corinthians 6:2-4). St. Macarius: "When the soul..departs from the body, .. under the guilt of sin, bands of demons..approach..which capture that soul..IF..he ...was their obedient slave... [ CONTRASTED WITH Christians whose] angels EVEN NOW stand alongside God's holy servants and ..receive their souls ... ( Homily 22, p. 155) The saint here states that whomever we allow to control us in Life will capture us after Death.

Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into "A" (?). "A" is obviously not a place or state to aspire but to fear or revile. Fear is a part of life even if you remove it from Scripture. The "whole body" not just the Soul? or is this a mistranslation? I am happy to purchase a better version of the Holy Scriptures if you have one

Toll Houses are NOT alluded to in the Creed.

If by Cult you mean all the Orthodox Saints then just call it what it is… The Church.

@allsaintsmonastery they are not heretics but on the way ...

@allsaintsmonastery they are not heretics but on the way or treading the fine line ... and a Goblin should know! a stealthy one at that!

Indeed, the toll house heresy makes our salvation depend, not on Christ Jesus and His saving work, but upon the whims of demons who are nothing by liars and slanderers. In this foul teaching, contrived to control people through terror, the demons can overturn Christ's forgiveness if the are convincing enought with their false witness (because false is all they can be, never truthful).

"concept" of Hell/Hades had been attempted to be diminished by the Jews themselves from time immemorial. It is in a way irrelevant in that whatever it is called these are not the places refered as "Toll Houses" & not "pergatory" which are on an intermediate levels between heaven and "hell" - while Hell and hades are on a fundementaly different level. Saint Mark of E completely disproved pergatory" while "toll houses" is a newer theory. Chopelis is far from being a saint or ilk of St Mark.