I was the only viewer in your last live stream. You went like: Yeah guys Imma-head out cya And I was like dead inside for 10 minutes Love your content! Have a good night!
I think that Avatar had the right idea for the dark lord. They realized that Ozai was an uninteresting character so they didn’t give him a lot of screen time and he was only around to serve the character arcs of Aang, Zuko and Azula.
@@kylesodyssey8591 I wouldn't say that Ozai is obsolete for Aang, just contractual. He's the designated Big Bad, and he needs to be deposed so that the world can heal. Aang DOES need him for the "mercy or duty" moral dilemma, but any villain could have filled that role.
Ozai is only uninteresting because they made him that way / chose not to explore him. If they delved more into his childhood, you might have seen how he was similar to Azula- someone who is trying to impress a distant parent by acting like an asshole, only to find it backfire because the parent doesn't care about you (in the case of Ozai) or the parent prefers your more noble sibling (in the case of Azulon). He even named his daughter after his dad and his dad still didn't seem to care, so Ozai stopped caring too. Of course, they also could have just gave him a totally different personality or motivation from the get-go. Either way, Ozai is uninteresting because of how he was written; he was not written the way he was because he was uninteresting.
Yeah, Ozai serves his purpose of being the baddest motherfucker in the story. He's the Fire Lord, someone so powerful Iroh, Dragon of the West, is uncertain he could defeat him. Aang, and only Aang, has the power to do so, and that's Ozai's role. He's not Zuko or Azula, genuinely complex antagonists who challenge the heroes. He's just there.
Yes. I guess I have my own ‘dark lord’. It’s just that he isn’t truly evil. Its like if Ozai in avatar had the story of Zuko. And his most powerful minion will feel betrayed by him, and so steal his power, and take up the position. And for the lolz be more powerful than the previous ‘dark lord’. And PDL (previous dark lord) will have a redemption arc. What do you guys think? Should I change anything?
No, you can't do that! You'll have to kill me first! N-No, don't worry, Protagonist, I'll be okay to keep being your Mentor. This could never go wrong.
When I was 9, I tried to write a Fantasy novel with a dark lord. His Deal was, that he ruled the world for 3500 years, because he ate a magical strawberry when he was a child, that made him full on immortal and invincible, so he just stepped infront of the old king and killed him. Then he got defeated by four magical 12-year-olds that could bend the elements.
I remember recently seeing an article title about Netflix possibly giving Percy Jackson another go (tv) tho it might have been about the Kane series. Not familiar with the books except for the Lightning Thief, but that original Percy movie is terrible
Tim: "The Silmarillion, otherwise known as the Bible for nerds." Me: "Heh heh heh." *Nervously tucks away the copy of The Silmarillion that I bought last Wednesday.*
@@kelnmiirkageoni1667 The Silmarillion is literally the Bible of Middle-earth. I haven't read the Narnia series, except for The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. I'm a proud nerd and dislike the Narnia series. So, you're wrong.
You're use of Voldemort as an example was very funny in the part about building anticipation and threat. Voldemort is a caring dark lord. He always waited patiently for Harry to complete his yearly education. Good man, Voldemort.
but then you watch the second movie and you see that Voldemort is an anagram of Tom Riddle and you imagine 16 year old Voldemort writing in his little diary I am Lord Voldemort and Voldemort becomes a little bit goofy.
Don't think that was supposed to be additive, but rather a percentage more than last year *of that particular category,* so 122% dark 130% Lordly 150% dead protag parent
Its like how if 100% = 20 and then it increases with 25% that means it increases with 5 which is 25% of 20. And the final worth would be 125% of the original or 25.
Part of Light Yagami's arc is his breakdown and abandonment if his code. By the end he is willing to kill even his allies if they become inconvenient to him.
Everytime i think about it I remember how good deathnote is Yeah the replacements for L werent very well done but i liked the ending a lot. And i think it is among the most interesting stories i have seen
I've literally been trying to work out how to properly do my "Dark Lord" character in the story I wanna write for a few months now without it just being a knockoff so this video was the perfect coincidence for me, lmao.
@@chinuaalibatya7345 Then by going off of this video, making the Dark Lord show up in person to kick your protagonists' rear end a few times and having them do something to hurt the protagonist on a personal level (also done in person) might be good things to do.
@@13KuriMaster. Yes but be honest. What interests you more? A deeply complex antagonists vs deeply complex protagonists? Or a dark lord vs the deeply complex antagonists trying to overcome him?
I hadn't thought about the contrast between dark lords and the henchmen and their place in the story arcs. It's something I've automatically done in a few story ideas, too, probably because of writing influences. I also have a new book to read. Mistborn sounds fascinating. Thank you for more food for writing.
Mistborn had a good plot and great world but I lost interest midway through the second book, mainly because I wasn’t especially invested in the characters and the word building was getting too chaotic and crowded for the kind of story it was.
@@Hello-ub8kt Really? The second book was by far my favourite. The political intregue really interested me! The third one was kind of a let down for me though.
"-And 50% more Dead Protagonist Parents!" **Cracks up, then suddenly freezes and sits bolt upright** Did you keep track of which protagonists you killed the moms of and the dads of, and how many are both dead?! That will MASSIVELY influence the development of the protagonist! You might end up with a John Wick tier protagonist when you could have gotten someone a lot less lethal! :o
I literally sat there and paused the video because I realized my protagonist had dead parents, and that I needed to rewrite that to make it more interesting and less vague than “died under mysterious circumstances”💀
Here's an interesting story idea: You have your standard Chaotic Evil Dark Lord: spiky black plate, kicks puppies for fun, gearing up to crush the free world beneath his bootheel with his vast armies of mindlessly loyal minions. Then the Apocalypse happens. The earth heaves, the seas surge, fire rains from the sky, and everything is left on the brink of utter collapse (Dark Lord: "But I haven't done anything yet!"). Now Mr. Lord is pretty much the only real power left on the planet (largely by dint of his lands already being pretty bleak, and thus comparatively less worse-off than elsewhere), just like he wanted, but there's simply no room for his selfish evil in the struggle to survive in this bleak new world. If he tries to act as he always has, there won't be anything left for him *to* rule. And he does want to rule. He started this gig to become a Dark *Lord*, not some two-bit bandit chief. He just didn't expect actually ruling the world would be this hard, or that he'd have to save it in the process.
I would add that there is a kind of weird inversion of The Dark Lord with the idea of a tyrannical light. A recent example of this would be Horde Prime in the Netflix She-Ra. Horde Prime conquers to enforce peace and order. That he crushes individuality and free will in the process is irrelevant to him. Prime's light casts out all shadows.
Oddly enough, one of my favorite of my villains is a super-deconstruction Dark Lord. He's actually more of a rebel than a tyrant, serving an Antichrist-like role as the apparent herald of the destruction of the civilization and perhaps even the gods. Everyone is terrified of him. His magic breaks the rules of magic. He's an unstoppable force capable of single-handedly demolishing any opponent, while using his nihilistic minions to infiltrate and corrupt any opposition. ...Except, most of that's a lie. He's a master of presentation, manipulation and psychological warfare who wants his enemies to THINK he's an unholy abomination. Most of his "impossible" magics are tricks or unique applications of other abilities (though he does know some magic that is kept a secret from the public by the civilization's leaders). His defeats of powerful foes are carefully orchestrated traps to exploit the foe's weaknesses. He managed to nearly dismantle the protagonists' team through a series of manipulations and tricks before they even knew his name. He's actually a legitimately good leader, gaining his minions' loyalty by respecting and aiding them in addition to exploiting their (legitimate) grievances with the society they are fighting. (The best example of that is when he learned one of his minions was in love with a main character. Instead of pulling a "Kill your lover to prove your loyalty to me!" thing, he promised the minion that he would do whatever he could to ensure the lover survived the upcoming war.) And he's kind of in the right - the society the protagonists are defending is a deeply exploitative caste system whose leaders use religion and talk of "destiny" to keep everyone in their place. And the character's philosophy of "destiny is meaningless, you decide what you will do"(even in the face of some in-universe magical destiny stuff) is much more in line with my general outlook on the subject. This is not to say that the character is truly a hero - he has a great willingness to do terrible things for his goals, and in the end I think he is more motivated by selfish ambition than anything he preaches, but I just find him such a fascinating character as well as a great challenge for protagonists to defeat.
@@NicholasLaRosa0496 It's called "Dusk." Unfortunately, it's not available anywhere at this time. (Creating a plot and characters is much easier than writing a whole book out, let alone publishing it.)
First, loved your intro; just perfect. Second, as far as LOTR goes, there's also the lesson that evil ultimately destroys itself. Better for good people to show mercy, certainly; but in doing so, it opened the way for Gollum to fall off the edge with the Ring in hand and thereby destroy the evil of Mordor. Edit: A really great example of "we're not so different" is How to Train Your Dragon 3, where Hiccup has to confront the guy who isn't just equal and opposite to himself, he's everything Hiccup could've become if he chose to kill Toothless instead of freeing him.
Time codes 1:13 - Good vs Evil 4:03 - Character arcs 6:49 - Dark lords are people too 9:31 - creating an active villian 10:46 - establishing dark lord as a threat 15:15 - campfire review 17:35 - summary
Dude, Jesus loves you. I write it seriously, not just because of time codes. God is eternally good and He loves you. Choose Christ in this life while it is not too late :)
Ironically, his one grand flaw was that he was fairly selfless for a Sith. Utterly dedicated to the Grand Plan and ending the cycle of abuse between master and apprentice when the Jedi had been brought down. He trained Sidious, he empowered him and then neglected him, leaving Sidious with time to study the ancient texts and transform his resentment into an ideological conclusion. Plagueis wanted them both to live forever as the rulers of the galaxy, Sidious wanted him dead.
Yoooo I'm so happy you mentioned the Inkheart trilogy; those books taught me to love reading as a kid but I've never met another person who knew about them
YES!!!! Finally someone states that a "pure evil" villain can not only work but if used wisely also strengthen the message. I love complex villains but I always believed just pure evil villains work too.
I've been suuuuper uninspired this year, but I agree, Campfire is pretty great. It takes me back to all the random world building I did as a kid, even if I can't make anything coherent, lol.
'Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise? I thought not. It's not a story the Jedi would tell you. It's a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life... He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. It's ironic he could save others from death, but not himself.'
Please make an On Writing about writing mysteries and how to reveal the right information at the right pace, and have the right twist and all the other things that a good mystery needs. :)
Here’s my issue with Ozai. For as one dimensional as his character appears in the show, his villainy stems from the conflicting mentalities of Zuko and Azula. As I see it, Ozai never had children. Ursa had a son she would do anything to protect and a daughter who she couldn’t entirely connect to, but she still loved both of her children. Perhaps not equally, as she saw how quickly Azula adopted some of Ozai’s vindictive traits, but ultimately, she admitted to Azula that her failing was having not loved her enough. Ozai however, had no children. He had a Weapon in Azula, as he fostered and probably instilled in her the relentless drive for perfection. Meanwhile, despite being his firstborn heir, Zuko was always a Weakling, to his eyes. He asked too many questions and was too compassionate for his own good. When Ozai banished and branded him, he indirectly granted Zuko his freedom, even if it took him three years to see past Ozai’s fiery reminder. The problem is, where does that leave Azula? Azula held Ozai’s respect and believed she had him wrapped around her little finger. In reality, Ozai had her safely stowed away in his pocket. Ozai banished Zuko for having more honour than him, but in doing so, punished Azula in term. For Azula to be the golden child, there had to be someone to set the standard for her to shine in comparison. With Zuko gone, Azula had to bear the brunt of satisfying Ozai’s exorbitant demands on her own. Any failings or mistakes could not be pushed back into Zuko. She would have to take the fall for herself. Out of all Ozai’s orders, why else would Azula flagrantly flout his will for Zuko to remain banished, if not as an act of self preservation? Azula saw that having Zuko back would save her own skin, as Zuko could divert the heat of Ozai’s temper away from her. She also knew that the years of exile would leave Zuko so desperate to return to the palace, that he would put up with it, for fear of being cast out again. Sure, Ozai would not be pleased about being defied so openly, but if he were told that Zuko has defeated the Avatar, he would be obliging enough to allow him to sit at his right side once more. The idea that Zuko’s banishment might have exposed him to how people perceived the Fire Nation was not even a possibility that Azula could have entertained. Imagine what it was like to work so hard to restore Zuko’s honour and title, only to have him denounce Ozai outright, leaving her behind for the second time, this time of his own volition. I realise I started out wanting to offer my perspective on Ozai, but both Zuko and Azula can attest to his malicious influence. Azula was convinced she still held power over Ozai, right up until he gave her the cast of title of Fire Lord, only to forge the title of Phoenix King for himself. Whatever final shred of fatherly love or familial connection was severed, the moment he made himself into an untouchable, living figurehead. Even more vindictive, was how he made his ‘love’ into a sort of commodity, only affording it to the child that earned his favour. Azula was born lucky. Zuko was lucky to be born. When Lu Ten died and Iroh removed his troops from Ba Sing Se, Ozai was itching to claim Iroh’s throne, taking Azulon’s command of losing Zuko as a sort of entry fee to get his place. Ursa helped to kill Azulon and put Ozai on the throne, under the condition that she be banished for her treasonous act and that Zuko would be spared. How many other times did Ursa have to defend Zuko from Ozai? Was there ever a time when Ozai saw Zuko as his son, or was he always the Weakling, that had to be squashed so that Azula would flourish? I’m stopping here. I don’t know how much more I can say before I lose sight of my point. My final point: Ozai was more than the show could properly portray and Azula deserved so much better than to have him as a father. So many people will rush in, declaring that Azula was rotten from the start and that she always would be, no matter what. In truth, I want to know who she might have been, we’re it not for Ozai. She may have unknowingly picked up some of his more unsavoury traits, but with Ursa and Zuko to help her, she would have ultimately been in a better space. At one point, Iroh himself believed that the Fire Nation’s cause was just, before Lu Ten showed him just how misguided his belief was. In a show where there are fire sages that remain loyal to the Avatar and their cause, where the Earth Kingdom form a totalitarian society, built on the backs of lies and deceit, where even those taken from the Water Tribe could turn out to be more malignant and vindictive than the worst of the Fire Nation, is it really that hard to believe that Azula, in the right setting, might have had the capacity for good within her, just waiting to be unlocked?
THANK YOU!! Oh my word Tim, as someone with a reading disability those little arrows make SUCH a big difference! This is the first of your videos I haven’t had to pause and rewatch the text sections because my mind wants to read the text but literally can’t read and listen at the same time even though you’re reading the same thing.
For a really interesting antagonist, I would suggest reading the Chaos Walking series, where the arguably irredeemable Mayor Prentiss actually goes through an interesting arc.
I'm sorry, I had to comment just because I am shooketh that someone other than me remembers the Inkheart trilogy. I love those books so much and I'm so sad they never got the film adaptations they truly deserved.
This came in the right time as I'm rewriting an old novel from high school. I kinda make a statement about the nature of love through the villains of the story. They're a military squad and the Captain is forced to pretend he loves and cares for his subordinates, but one of them ends up betraying him and helping the hero. Also the evil captain is only desperate to defeat the hero because he's told has no valuable if he doesn't serve a purpose to the organization. Greetings from Argentina!
Naoya Yami actually, yes. We have a running joke in the family that I have an older brother that lives in the basement. It started as a bit of a mean joke (I am the oldest in my family) when I told my younger brothers that if they didn’t behave then our mom would make them sleep in the basement (unfinished with a dirt floor) like our older brother, Steve. Now we set a place for him for holidays and knock on the basement door before entering. It’d be rude to just barge in.
I'm on the opening skit and after watching OverlySarcastic's take on GrimDark - I'm honestly like "if the Dark Lords have only been 22% more dark this year than last year - what the hell happens when they stop holding back?!" I mean seriously, a global pandemic, wildfires, riots, government totalitarianism and the continued knowledge that no matter what we do or act, nothing will ever improve - and that was with the Dark Lords being only 22% more dark?!
one of the best videos on how to make a villain i have ever seen really helpful personally, my favorite dark lords and/or pure evil villains are Sidious(star wars), Sauron(lotr), Moriarty(Sherlock), Rumpelstiltskin(once upon a time), azula(avatar the last airbender), and the master(dr who)
If I may expand on the example of Mistborn: The Final Empire (some trilogy spoilers, btw): the subversion of the trope is greater than merely the mystery and how that is unveiled, it's also in how the Dark Lord and his substitute are portrayed. Throughout the series, the ever present threat of the Dark Lord's main servant exists in the form of the Inquisitors: largely interchangeable super-enemies with all of the magic of a Mistborn and then some (at least, all of the magic of a Mistborn in the first book, before the discovery of new alloys and their powers). These figures are absolutely inhuman: fanatically loyal to the Lord Ruler and absolutely reveling in the blood and carnage that comes with maintaining his oppressive regime. The Lord Ruler is ever present in the background - his title is even used as a blasphemous curse, because he's the living god of this nightmare world, and everything suggests that he's like most Dark Lords: like the substitute but worse. It's only towards the end that starts to change, and you start to realize just how human he is. He's a man who circumstance has forced to do terrible things. He's touched a power beyond humanity, and been changed by it, taking the long view of a god while still being human, still having human thoughts and limits. He's tried to create an ideal society, taking the aspects he respected of the various cultures from before his rule, and it's failed repeatedly. So he acts as any human dictator does and has the rebels executed....and keeps doing so for a thousand years. By the time of the book, he's *tired*. There's a part of him that wants to stop, but another part that knows that there's an even darker force (the antagonist of the trilogy as a whole) that will destroy humanity if he loses control. He's not a good man, but, by the standards of a Dark Lord, he's a shockingly human one. Especially when you tend to expect a Dark Lord to be the-same-but-more when compared to his chief underlings, in this case the incredibly inhuman Inquisitors. That said, if you didn't see the Lord Ruler as being surprisingly human, no blame to you. He's a mass murdering ruler who seems like he's on par with Stalin and Hitler, but having been like that for a thousand years...like I said, he's far from a good man. But he's more like Thanos - there's a reason for his atrocities, a hope for a greater good. Plans to fight against a god known as Ruin, who wants nothing more than to destroy the entire planet and everyone on it. And there's that exhaustion, that sense that he wants there to be a better world, but he just doesn't know how to do it, and fears to let anyone have enough freedom, lest Ruin influence them into a successful plot to destroy him. (oh wait, yeah, book 1 was the actual antagonist tricking the protagonists into killing the one man who actually had a plan to stop him. ^_^)
Luke: you killed my father! Darth vader: I have killed many fathers. You will need to be more specific. This quote, right here, from the star wars comics, answers your question. A dark lord kill many parents. They don't expect any of their surviving children to become protagonists. It is only when they know a child is destined to be a protagonist that they would kill their parents. Voldemort killed many parents in his career, but he went after harry's parents specifically because he knew Harry is going to become a protagonist.
@@alucard347 Should've known better. Trying to kill a protagonist destined to defeat you while they're still a child has a 100% chance of being the thing that sets them on the path to defeating you.
@@sayerglasgow115 well, to be fair, he went after harry. His father stood in his way so he killed him on the spot, and he was trying to spare his mother and just aim for the child, but she refused to move so he killed her as well. He wasn't expecting actually getting defeated by a baby, neither did he expected to let harry live and grow. He was trying to end the child of the prophecy, and by doing so accidently created the conditions for the prophecy to occur.
Thanks for this! I have a story I have worked on off and on since I was a young teen in the '90s. What started as totally derivative of the second-generation Tolkien knock-offs on which I cut my fantasy teeth, I have strived to improve without losing the essence of the story. I've been struggling with the villains the whole time. The guy you'd call *the* villain must necessarily stay in the background for most of the story, because 1) he's trying to lure the protagonist to his home, where he'll have the advantage and 2) the protagonist has lived in fear of the villain his whole life, and I want a strong moment at the climax where he realizes that the villain is basically just a guy who made different choices. Meanwhile, the bulk of the story is the journey the protagonist takes to reach the villain's home, which presents its own obstacles. The main villain does have a lackey who shows up during the journey to kind of prod the protagonist. You've given me a lot to think about in terms of how I can make this lackey a stronger character, and perhaps through him reveal more about the main villain.
Glad you mentioned The Lord Ruler, easily my favorite Dark Lord. Honestly you could've used the Mistborn trilogy for all of the parts of this video and I would've been happy.
Your insight is really helpful. I have a pure evil villain (a winter solstice demon that kidnaps and consumes people) and though they have important character development in a sequel, I realized the reason they are pure evil in this one is bc the hero is tremendously flawed and struggles with evil in his own ways - and struggles with shame when he sees he is like the villain in some small ways. Its helpful to see why that's ok, and even a good dynamic.
Thanks for reminding me how good the Ninth Doctor was! I think I’m gonna go rewatch his season and wish for the hundredth time that he stayed around for longer.
Interesting video. :). Thank you for doing this. Dark Lord characters are basically a staple/necessary trope for an Epic Fantasy series. In my series, the Light vs the Darkness. Basically, I based the Light on my faith/Christianity (God). And, the Darkness on Satan/Lucifer. But, I use the duality system/belief, so that there'll be actual conflict. In my series, Elf Sisters, the Darkness created the vampires, sorcerers, and werewolves. The Light created the Elves and humans. The Light and Darkness are at war with each other and the Darkness takes possession of certain creatures and serves as the antagonist of the first two books. In the third, the original creatures of Darkness appear, and the Darkness takes possession of a certain character in the fourth and last book. So does the Light, in the style of "Incarnation" for both the Light and Darkness's avatars. The three female protagonists are Adria, Celestina and Anastasia, whose mother was murdered by the first antagonist that was possessed by the Darkness years before the start of the series. In my opinion, Tolkien's concept of Sauron was far more interesting/believable as a "Dark Lord" character. But, Voldemort and Darth Vader were superb as well. Tolkien, Rowling, Lewis, and Lucas are superb storytellers. :). Once again, love your videos. Especially, the ones concerning magic systems. :). Keep up the good work.
The Mistborn Trilogy actually has 3 Dark Lords, one in each book. SPOILERS The Final Empire: The Lord Ruler, obviously. He wasn't an active villain and didn't have a sub villain, mostly because of the structure of the story as a mystery / heist. The Well of Ascension: Straff Venture. He went with the personal connection and sub boss tropes pretty hard. The Hero of Ages: Ruin. Interestingly enough, the two plot threads of the story each had a different sub boss, but the more important one was obviously Marsh.
Underrated dark lord: Arawn from the Chronicles of Prydain. You never really get to see him, but his presence is just so palpable throughout the whole series
The Devil shows a complex, spiritual theme: pride and self-absorption. He shows how perfect beings can fall because of their own worth found in their own gifts or performances
Arthis Menethil was a well done dark lord as well. There's a dungeon where you literally have to run away from him as he slowly creeps towards you, killing you if he reaches you.
legit, i've learned more about writing from you than most of my teachers in the last decade. you're a blessing, thank you for these, my writer friends and i love them
Loved the wheel of time reference! I'm currently reading it for the first time (not done yet, i'm in book 5) and absolutely in love with the worldbuilding and happy that the "dark one" is actually shown as a motive or vessel for our phisically existent villains!
Harry Potter books: Molly Weasly v Bellatrix Lestrange > Harry v Voldemort, 50% for the reasons you mentioned, 50% due to seeing a cliché motherly character going full lioness and being pushed to the breaking point, honestly didn't expect that although it fits really well (Molly being always shown as deeply caring for her family and being a competent witch).
It was also a foil battle between Molly's motherly love for her children and their friends compared to Bellatrix's fanatical love for Voldemort and the Death Eater cause.
@@NobodyC13 exactly. I think that falls under the "minion" part from the video, since they both basically embody the concepts the two mains stand for, compassion/love and cruelty/hatred.
13:25 For my D&D group's case when we played "Curse of Strahd", we were VERY focused on killing Rahadin, but kililng Strahd, it was more just like, "OK, cool, we can go home now." Rahadin though? We tracked his ass down and made sure he was GOOD and dead.
![On Writing: Dark Lords! [ Sauron | White Witch | Voldemort ]](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
