It reminds me of one of the first King of the Hill episodes where Hank, after catching bobby smoking, ends up addicted again himself. During withdraws he starts labeling everything in his office, including labeling the label maker.
Very nice! Though I'm sure some people will be amazed you found four Pi 5s! (I have noticed more availability this month so far, though... at least one place in the US has stock any given day)
@@JeffGeerling It took me a few months, but then I had four. I saw the PoE hats a few weeks ago. Now I have to decide whether to use Docker Swarm or K3S for my cluster. I was inspired by your PI cluster videos but then the PI's were no longer available. But now the party can begin!
@@JeffGeerling in the UK we can order an unlimited amount pretty much. I checked and I can buy 577 8GB models I currently have 8 in my basket considering if I *really* need them, as I already have 8 Pi 4s
Not sure why my comment was deleted, maybe I was a bit ambiguous. I was just saying that in the UK when considering buying 8Ø 8GB Pi 5s (I didn't buy any as I already have 8× Pi 4s) I checked to see how many I could buy and I was able to buy 577. There didn't seem to be any limits per person
Honestly, "black magic" is a pretty apt description of PoE. The latest PoE++ specification supports pushing up to 99.9W down 100m of Cat5 cable, which means that even after all the transport losses, the end device still can negotiate to draw up to 71.3W. Additionally, the PoE++ specification supports up to 10GBASE-T speeds, i.e., 10 Gbps Ethernet. If that's not black magic, I don't know what is. (Well, except USB-PD now supporting up to 240W. That's just nuts.)
Jeff, i don't have much input here cause my skills range from mildly below the level in your videos to significantly below lol But, that said, I do wanna say, I just love seeing your messages in reply to people. Genuine, thoughtful responses and discussion. At a channel your size, that's almost unheard of! I hope it doesn't take too much out of you 💜 I'm sure it can be exhausting. But it's appreciated by at least one :]
Oddly enough I ended up assembling this exact combo stack before running into your video. I had a spare SSD kicking around after I swapped out the one in my ROG Ally with a 2TB one. Now my Pi5 runs a 512GB SSD and I'm trying to setup two NoIR Wide v3 cams on it for concurrent video recording for mocap. Lots of hacking left to do. Thanks for these great videos.
I bought the Pi 5 + PoE HAT + NVMe Base thanks to this video, cheers! The lack of a proper enclosure inspired me to learn to design a custom case for it in Fusion 360. It took a lot longer than I expected going in (3 days 😅) and I'm at version 68 now, but I learned a ton and I'm really happy with the result! My goals were: - A perfect fit for the Pi 5 + Waveshare PoE HAT + Pimoroni NVMe base stack - No taking apart the stack to mount it, just slot it right in and have the case hold it in place - 75x75mm VESA mounting points so you can mount the case anywhere: a TV, a monitor, wall, etc. - Plenty of ventilation - Hexagons. Because they're the bestagons. I've also created a 75x75mm VESA to DIN rail adapter to mount the Pi sideways, sized to perfectly center this case on the rail to take up the least amount of horizontal space in my utility closet. I plan on eventually getting another two of these Pi stacks to put on the rail next to the first so I can have my own PoE powered, SSD-booted cluster to run Kubernetes on 😄 I've published the 3D model for the custom case for free on MakerWorld, and it's also CC-BY-NC-SA licensed so feel free to remix it! makerworld.com/en/models/413567#profileId-315577 The print profile I used is included, so if you have a Bambu Lab printer you can print one with a couple clicks. I recommend PETG in general (sturdier than PLA) and I used white Creality PETG myself at 0.2mm layer height. If you don't have a 3D printer, there are plenty of online services and local enthusiasts who could print it for you. Check out /r/3Dprintmything. This was my most complex design to date, so I'm looking forward to any feedback or remixes from the community! Full disclosure: the model is completely free to download, but the download count stats do support me through MakerWorld's points system.
I run a cluster of 8 raspberry pi4s using Poe in a cluster rack. My favourite twist is I used pxe boot off Synology. It means all the pi does in provide computer and ram. I manage the pxe configs and Poe power cycles using some neat scripts so I can assign hosts to slots and reboot etc
I was always curious about a PoE pi's power draw. The fact that it idles at 4 watts and stays below 10 watts under load is mind blowing. 15 years ago we were running 100W light bulbs in every lamp in the house. Now we can power 10 mini computers with less power consumption. I feel a lot better about having half a dozen pi running all the time doing various home automation and network storage.
Yeah not only that, but 10 Watts for a computer that's pumping through more data than an old 300W PC from just 10-15 years ago! Efficiency is wild these days.
anyway, we'll all come to the Framework... or to a mini PC... when the requests grow. Mini PCs can run on 8 watts and up to 65 watts... perhaps it is worth using a type-c cable somewhere...? poe+ - only 30
PoE machines are getting really capable nowadays. There was even a PoE mini-PC with the Intel N100 chip from Minisforum at CES that's supposed to be releasing soon.
I have a pi4 4GB on POE, and its powering a 5TB 2.5" spinning metal hard drive for "offsite" backups (the woodshed is at least out of the house) Works great.
Crazy that it's taking this long for an official PoE and M.2 HAT from Raspberry Pi themselves. What else are their hardware eng team working on thats causing the delay...
Rumor has it that April 2024-ish is when we might expect to see it. I’m curious how well it does for power efficiency (more for PoE power ranges than PoE+), especially compared to the other hats coming out now.
It's about the market..... POE hat is going to sell a few thousand is all... When ur building a company to sell, a few thousand aint gonna add millions or billions to the sale price
I tried this hat recently and was not impessed at all. a) I got an undervoltage warning once, but this might have been a glitch, never happend again. b) the fan is way too loud for my application. c) With my unit there was a substantial amount of coil whine, especially at idle (quiet powered of or at full load). I'm going to send it back. Gone is the most interesting argument for an pi vs. a mini PC for my application...
PoE! Thanks for the video. You covered everything I would have tested once I reached the "upgrade existing tech" portion of my home lab budget this year. Thank you!
I want that nvme hat. Not for the cable, but because it has no LEDs. I hate the LEDs, blinking, all night. Waveshare's poe hats are the best, and historically have been the best.
We are NOT ALL electrical engineers. Do you have a basic Pi tutorial's aka Pi 101 ? How do I explain this to my Grandkids when I don't even know what a hat is. Teach to your weakest link.
As I was wondering this myself also, I mounted the three wire fan found on the Raspberry official active cooler to the Waveshare POE board as a test by using 2x 12mm M2 screws and bolts (the orginal fan on the Waveshare comes with 12mm M.2.5 screws so I had to order some) and then connected the fan to the Raspberry Pi5 fan header. It seems to work as the fan is not on all the time and only switches on when temps are going up above 51-52C-ish temps With the original Waveshare fan on the POE board that is always spinning 100%, I have idle temps of 32/34.0C with them going up to 56.5/57.0C average when running Stress/CPUburn-a53. With the three wire fan of the official active cooler connected, I have idle temps of 43.0-47.5 without the fan spinning and around 62.0/67.0 when running Stress/CPUburn-a53 with the fan spinning trying to keep all cool enough. Although this is well below the 80-85C max. temp recommended for the Raspberry Pi5, it does mean about 10-11C more than using the Waveshare fan on the POE board which runs on 100% all the time. Since I have 5 pi's running in an 19"/1U enclosure I am not sure yet if I am going to replace all the fans on the POE HATs for the active cooler ones. I think for now I am going to stick with the Waveshare ones running at 100% all the time as they are not really bothering me but it does keep the Pi's about 10-11C cooler overall. Would be interesting to see once Raspberry Pi comes with their own POE HAT if they include a 3-pin fan that only goes on and regulates it's speed when it needs to.
Thanks Jeff for another great video! Would you consider to do a review on Vivid Unit? It has PoE built-in, seems too good to be true for such a compact device.
Although a great idea for running a Pi without using a power cube and routing a power cable, I find that PoE hats only run for so long before the fan starts getting noisy and eventually slows down or gives out entirely and I had to replace the fan every few months or so. I've never had a fan run longer than 4 months before having to replace it. I ran my Pi's vertically and horizontally in my rack as well as in an acrylic case vertically mounted to the back of a monitor, but eventually experienced the same issue each time. I ended up redoing most of my Pi's as either VMs and one or two on NUCs or other SFF computers.
Wonderful! Been looking for a Pi 5 POE solution, and validation that it works -- ordered 2, and they will arrive when I have some time to work with them. Thank you for the very good evaluation!
I do not get only one thing. Why this PoE hat does not have 3 wires. PWM fan would be a nice thing to have that could be controlled via some Python 3 script.
@@JeffGeerlingI agree, but I suppose that this is more complicated than 3 wires. Besides Waveshare already has similar hats for Raspberry Pi that work with PWM fan. But maybe they were afraid that someone could overheat Raspberry Pi 5 , or the radiator is to thin and it requires a fan working with full speed? I do not know this. I am wondering will Noctua NF-A4x10 fit; it has dimensions 32x32 mm (for screw holes). I think Noctua should think about quiet PWM fans for Raspberry 5. I am sure that such quality fans would be a nice deal towards people interested in not only Raspberry Pi but other IoT devices.
This one has a nice wide empty space in the PCB between the power input side and the rest of the board-it seems to follow the proper design guidelines at least, but I didn't do any specific testing for it.
For the usb3-nvme i'd go for a usb3-hub in between and grab power from another usb2.0 port for it. Helps those little contacts to less voltage drop and heat/load in the RPi
"How? Black Magic." I mean, for real though. Just because we understand it, doesn't make it not freaking magical. Like, we're talking about rocks that we teach to do math.
Another great video, Jeff. I'm running my Pi5 with the Pimoroni NVME board, the cable is fiddly I found it easiest to connect it to the Nvme board then the Pi and then put the stand-offs in. But I do need the PoE Hat next
PoE hats are really the only way to run a Pi cluster. Otherwise, it's just a mess of cables everywhere. Glad to see 3rd parties taking care of this since Raspberry Pi is so slow to get things out.
Looking forward to the comparison, especially the powerdraw. Would be interesting to see both poe hats doing the same tasks and a comparison between the powerdraw. If one had less powerdraw, it would mean it was more efficient and thus made less heat..
I'm trying to set up a fan-less pi5 with an nvme drive, but I need it to run on a 'C' connection, without the wall-wart. Don't know if it will, but that's my aim... I'm shooting for a draw of about 6 watts? Linux, with VDE in a dosbox, for word processing; that's my aim.
Great and thorough testing of POE near power source. But, what could one actually do with it? Given your office cabling could you run Pi at remote corner of office? Could the office corner Pi run a room temperature sensor or a Pi camera? Or perhaps both for a science experiment monitoring a small seedling? You have demonstrated that it does improve the cabling at the rack. And that a managed POE switch is useful. Would a Ubiquiti Dream Router POE work as a POE power supply?
Yeah I have a UDM SE which powers a Pi sitting on top of it in a rack, then also one ~20m away in the garden running BirdNET, getting power to that location would have been a massive pain, but easy to run a bit of Cat6.
I have been considering adding a Pi-based PoE cam to my NVR system using a Pi running far from the network closet, but that project has to wait a bit for now.
Hi Jeff, I am s great fan of yours and request you to make some videos on some other boards instead please. We want some alternatives here now since, I don't see the foundation to be heading the same direction as before. Regards
Ahh yes. The thing I wanted the most in my raspberry PI is being able to shut it off remotely through PoE, especially that it's running a custom file server with its own virtual filesystem I wrote and have no idea how a sudden loss of power would affect it's integrity...
I was just asking for something like this!! Now I have to update to RPi 5? lol And Jeff, were you able to use the 1U rack mount with both PoE and nvme HATs?
No, right now I haven't found a good solution for the 'Bottom' HATs and rackmount designs that exist right now. There are some DIN rail mounts that are compatible, though you might have to supply your own screws.
@@JeffGeerlingWhat DIN rail mounts or DIN rail cases do you recommend for Raspberry Pi 5 (with and without HAT's)? Just found some for Raspberry Pi 4. Not sure if they are working.
It would be nice, the problem is the parts (especially the transformer) are large enough it will never be possible on a Pi-sized board, unless you sacrifice all other IO on it. Which could be neat, for completely headless use cases, but I think the best form factor is something like the Compute Blade for that.
What dimension? @@KeithSachs If they extend length I think that's better since the current goat form factor seems to be a 2U rack mount that goes vertically.
@@KD-_-Not sure! whatever they could make work i guess, i think ATX is like 25% longer so if you went with the same % it would be like 106mm long instead of 85
Heh, well two of them would be USB 2.0, and two USB 3.0, so two would be a bit speed-reduced. The Pi only provides up to 1.6A across all four USB ports though, so I don't think all four would run bus-powered :(
The tough thing is manufacturers still label things as "3.0" or "3.1" or "3.2" or "USB3" or "USB 3 10 Gbps" so I'm mostly sticking to whatever is advertised on the device. Raspberry Pi's own product page describes "2 × USB 3.0 ports, supporting simultaneous 5Gbps operation" The USB-IF should try to stick to one naming convention for more than 5 or so years :D
@@JeffGeerling I was joking of course, but I agree, the USB IF does an atrocious job marketing their standards and you can't explain any of this to people unfamiliar with technology.
Hat Have you looked at the GeeekPi M.2 NVME M-Key PoE+? NVME and PoE in one hat. My only critique is that it may have added a bit too much height to fit easily into tower solutions.
The price of PIs now.... Your better off buying a old laptop. Wayyyyy more computing power along with screen, keyboard and the ability to run many diff OS and programs
I think i'm gonna get one, when i got my python datalogging for my 12x coolers running.. Maybe even an external one. Then i dont have to care about power failure in my room (or EMO) and can send out alert mails while IT still has backup power running.
My concern is the GPIO header pins sticking out the top, and figuring a case it'll all fit into... After my Google searches led me to this particular hat still being apparently the only one available, I searched RU-vid and ended up here. Could I just cut those pins off flush with the top of the board?
I bought one of these and the SD card slot stopped working. Maybe I installed something wrong. Such a bummer because I think this means I can't use the USB on the go port for data.
I got really unlucky with the waveshare PoE F hat. Massive coil whine and weird screechy noise when it's powered on, and the cheap little fan started rattling real fast. About to buy another one to test if it was just a bad production batch, and then design and 3D print a mount for a proper bigger noctua fan since there is that 12V header.
Well, one thing that seems clear: With short decent Ethernet cables PoE never should be a problem. But it could become an issue when using 5 to 10 meters already, especially if the cables aren't the best quality.
Not anymore-I was learning guitar, but have given up and the Squier is now in the hands of someone who plays a lot more guitar and is teaching his daughters.
1:19 that literally made me shudder. Cleaning that up takes 2 minutes if you know what you are doing. For that matte, if you know what you are doing, it doesn't look like this in the first place.
I would not trust anything to the Pimoroni board. Mine worked for one day. No idea if the board died, the cable died. Ordered a new cable to test, but brand lost value with me already. Going with Geekworm for now on
Did anyone experience issues with the hat emitting a high pitched noise? It's not the fan, I unplugged it. I sent the hat back. Should I order another one, or is this a design flaw?
I wonder if it works with the Radxa Penta HAT. 2.5 inch SATA drives don't use 12V so it'll be nice if it works. Imagine running a 4-bay SSD NAS with only one cable
Damn you Jeff, you have cost me so much money. The power of marketing’. You show stuff and I’m like oh ya i need that and proceed to order. I have so much stuff just lying around now. I blame you Jeff lol. Love the videos and all the information
