Made an error on the percentage speed change. It would be over 100% faster on one rope or over 50% slower on two ropes. Over 2x faster on one rope or more than 2x as slow on two ropes.
Think a bunch of people neglect it but it really does help it was the first thing I started doing when I got into this job, I always try to tell everyone to do it or at least ask if they do even if you ain’t a arborist. May only get 5 mins to do it but really helps no matter ye age. Good on ya for showing it to folk. Stay safe
I am learning at the moment and I am not as experienced as most here on this youtube page but have experienced a situation when two ropes are better than one. While 20ft off the ground a piece of ivy got stuck in one of the rope systems while descending, this brought up the ivy and trapped the rope. Using the 2nd line I was able to free it up and was able to carry on. Without the 2nd rope I would still be up there!
Good point William, I'm glad two ropes works well for you. I have had a similar things happen like things sitting on the zigzag making you suddenly drop, thanks for the comment
Love when people make laws who have probably never been in the business or even used climbing gear. Your a heck of a good climber regardless of the system my friend.
Where are you from Aaron? Trees don't grow massive round here but because our old trees are protected you do get some very nice specimens 👍 UK is lovely and is definitely worth a visit. I thinks it's in our nature to envy people from other places as alot of us guys are dying to get out to Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealand ect. However, there will always be no place like home.
I’m on the East coast, so mainly climbing in New Jersey, New York, and Connecticut. Haven’t met any out of country climbers, but I guess we all envy the tree we can’t climb. Had a couple of old growth trees to climb, and install lightning protection, but not so wide and open like the on in this video. Sick job man.
I agree with other some of the other comments that it would be easier using two identical system the way you're climbing in the video. If you were using a hitch climber you could even have the second SRS line without a wrench to avoid the extra friction (it would still fail to safe), so long as you carried a karabiner or something to add friction if you needed to descend on just that line in an emergency. I've found where climbing off an SRS and MRS together really comes into its own is on a big spready tree where you can keep your top anchor on the SRS and then move your MRS as you move around the tree to give you better work positioning. Great video though.
Great video dude! I was thinking of doing the very same experiment for myself but including a lot more redirects in a tree that doesn't have quite so much of an open/splayed canopy!
I'm thinking of doing it in full PPE, and the saw/kit on the harness and run multiple redirects to scale the whole tree. I imagine your findings will be exaggerated further!
Found your channel this week really enjoying the content mate! Where abouts in UK are you based? Any tips for starting out SRT? Nobody I work for/with uses SRT at all so unfortunately no local mentors/teachers for me to learn from
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Z7EH8MnZv44.htmlsi=5LrgsjeV0Adki2HI check out my video on it. My best advice is pick a system for srt within your budget or what looks interesting and then go and practice in your spare time so that when your in work your competent. Srt will speed up your climbing and efficiency as well as preserving your body for a long career. Glad you like my stuff, means a lot
I've climbed drt pretty extensively, the knotless setup is the most efficient for guys in my region. Zig/zag with a splice on your rope is the go to set up. Throw the rope over a branch, clip in, climb up, lanyard in, repeat. It's simplistic. Also I stopped using throwballs on removals. Climb the tree, bottom to top, examine the structure, look for things your sales rep may have missed. I've tried srt in all my daily scenarios, I can do the same in drt configuration and it's faster/easier.
Zigzag is definitely awesome! Srt is hard to get used to, especially if you've used drt for years. I'm still in love with the zigzag myself too but srt is a must on anything with a decent accent for me. Thank you for the comment Rob ✌️
Oh boy this might be a thing in the States soon might as well learn it now and get it over with and learn the advantages and disadvantages...if it's a no for me I'll hang the ropes up and get back in the bucket !
I have been using two ropes in the US for many years, on most trees. It took some trial and error, but I came to use two identical systems, and my second line will "follow" without my input during ascent. This saves a lot of time and energy. Tending the double rope system on the way up seems unwieldy. I'm curious what climbers in the UK are doing with these new rules. Thanks for the video.
@@TPOTTS_TREES I use two CAMP Safety Druid Pro's. If there is the right slack, and I clip my saw to the line, the second Druid will follow up the line. Most trees here are not that tall, so I ascend using RADS. The Druid is a Rope Access type locking descender - not popular with tree workers, but small, light, inexpensive, safe, and "follows". If I have to ascend a tall tree, I will "rope walk" with a TAZ Love2, let the Druid follow, and switch to two druids at the top. Hope it helps someone...thanks for the video. One thing I don't see people doing: If the rule makes you use two lines, why not set one elsewhere in the tree you are planning to be later. Then you can use that line to move to that location later. In this way, I start with line A as "primary", then switch to line B as primary later.
Time for a revisit after a year? In your recent vids I see you're using a zigzag instead of hitch-climber for the MRS, which should self-tend once there's enough rope weight below the device right? + a year of experience should make quite a difference in time I would assume.
The zig zag is an awesome solid device. It will self tend well with a clean thinner rope. Around 11.5mm. The old style 13mm rope is too thick to work properly although the zigzag says it's ok to use with it, I find it just doesn't function as well. Every year you get so much better. Tbh I can't believe I've been making videos for a year now. I'm coming up on 8 years experience climbing.
@TPOTTS_TREES yeah I like the zigzag too for MRS, for SRT I'm using a rope runner, which is quite smooth too. As a new climber I find the additional line actually quite nice for peace of mind. I usually use an SRT base anchor as high as I can get it and use the MRS system to advance my backup anchor up as I go.
They say it's to prevent anchor point failure or cutting of the single line. I think they based it on accident statistics. They carried it across from the "rope access" industry I believe
I look after a natural reserve and I have so many arguments with the nature trust about the deadwood and potentially dangerous trees near the path . Their opinion always seems to be a game of Russian roulette and it’s very unlikely that someone will get hurt. I find this outlook to be unacceptable. Your video clearly shows people do get more than just hurt .👍🏻
We did purchase one of those to trial out but no one seemed to like it. Mainly because you still had a second line to pull over limbs but no function of the line to aid with work positioning. I would be interested however to make a video on it trying it myself. Thank you for the comment :)
Check with your harness manufacturer first- the ASAP is a fall-arrest device (primarily), and if your harness is rated/classified for suspension and not fall-arrest then it won't meet the intent. In the US a full body harness is required to meet fall-arrest standards. I understand people trying it, but I'm thinking it doesn't translate over from the rope access world. (I work as a climbing arborist, prior rope access cert IRATA L1). Try two rope wrenches- the friction hitches being in the same area, and particularly the slack tending being at the same rate make it way easier. Thanks for the video- looks like a great tree to climb !
@@aarong2396 yes you are right! After looking into it I found out it wouldn't be suitable to climb with for that exact reason. I will have to keep having a play with what works best for me. Thanks for the comment Aaron👍
Safety first yes, but you said it yourself, you don't know what's going to happen when you've got two ropes in a dynamic situation. Fatigue in operating two systems has also got to be considered as a factor affecting safety. Not to mention taking longer to do a job = time, cost and energy. Not convinced of the benefits of always having two ropes in a dynamic, 3 dimensional work situation as opposed to the 2 dimensional rope access world. Interesting to note that the Working at Height Regs do not apply to sport, competition or recreational tree climbing, the operative word being 'WORKING', maybe accidents don't happen in those 3 categories.😁
Your a great climber, I think there may be a few points your missing. You are not using a DRT system the way we do and other than the initial setup (cambium saver) I have found the ascent to be nearly identical. I find SRT to be better for limbwalking but we commonly use reset lines for traverse with DRT and there are only a handful of situations where it ends up much slower. I recommend trying a unicender with a sport clip.
I will be uploading a video soon on the course just using a drt line and get the time for that too to test the theory. The unicenders aren't that common over here in England but I'll definitely check them out. Thank you for your kind words.
Why can’t you use 2 Srt lines? Here in the US there are no mandates on climbing with 2 lines but I find myself climbing with 2 srt lines most of the time.
That would be interesting to try to see what time I achieve. I have occasionally climbed on two rope wrenches and did like it however I still do like to have drt and srt as I get the benefits of both such as the zigzags mechanical advantage making coming in from limb walks much easier. Thanks for the comment✌️
@@TPOTTS_TREES not occupation more how much you make...keep up the vids they are great I love learning from everyone else. Been doing tree work for 5 years and always learning new stuff 🙌🏽
If you have a tree with a broad canopy requiring longer limb walks where a satellite anchor would be helpful then SRT is the way to go. However, if you have a fairly narrow tree not requiring long limb walks (ex. pine) then MRS is the way to go. I usually ascend via SRT and then switch to MRS. I find it much easier to relocate my top tie-in with MRS using throw ball on line end. I use a retrieval Rope Logic USAVER as my final tie in....it also allows easy rope movement when chunking down. Your comparison of the two systems was not the best as you used two systems during the MRS test which slowed things down. MRS can be fast enough when used efficiently with proper equipment/accessories. I use the Petzl ZigZag 99% of the time...with chicane for ascending and switch to MRS once up in tree. JMHO
MRS and SRS both have there advantages I agree. The video is meant to more demonstrate the time difference between climbing on 1 rope or 2 ropes as here in the UK it's become a rule that we must climb at all times with two working systems with two lines that touch the floor at all times. Hope this clears that confusion up a bit. I do love the zigzag myself, I think its great but with the change in the rules I now climb on srt rope wrench and drt zigzag, thank you for your comment 👍
Yeah very interesting video obviously as a beginner I sent to use two lines not all the time but I can see it being such a hindrance no one is going to bother or just run the other line so slack and it’s just gonna be pointless who’s going to know how are they going to place it and what are they going to do to you if you only use one line still are they regulating your time point because you could try both lines into exactly the same point and if one fails they both fail . How many people have actually died I would it make any difference if there’s been two lines if they cut through one line with the chainsaw what’s to stop them going through two. Because where are you running your chainsaw is where they both are closest to you.
couldn't you add another auto-slack-tending system from your srt to your drt? it wouldn't work until you got part ways up and there was enough weight on the line from closing the loop. Just like knee+foot ascender climbing on drt, eventually the tail has enough weight your foot ascender moves without needing to tend it.... It would be a kinda slow start, but once mid-ways or higher it should always tend, unless you manually let out a bunch of slack... I didn't see much loading on the "backup drt" so that hitch should move rather freely. Probably become a problem once again tho once the loops too small too... eh, I suppose on the first ascent it still may be worth a shot to avoid the double tending :) I suppose a lot of situations arise, cambium saver or no? if it's just a throw over there may be too much friction to get auto-tending going on the other..
In the video I had the drt line through a caribena and sling so it was quite smooth. If you get a crew member to pull down on the drt tail your system will follow you up which is great but sometimes they might be busy. It's a new change to the industry so there must be better ways of doing it but time will tell. Definitely worth putting some thought trying to make things quicker while keeping it as safe. Thanks alot for the comment ✌️
Great video. I find an auto tending DTRT setups closes the gap a little (zigzag, spiderjack etc), but the difference is major. I used to use two ropes anyway when required (dodgy anchors etc) and think that it should still be at climber discretion. Accidents definitely can happen, but let's face it, someone usually would have to make a mistake for that to be the case. If you always use a sideline when cutting and have a reliable anchor, why wouldn't that be safe enough? In what scenario would the extra line be safer if you worked to the old standards by the book? I have only ever met climbers that had fallen who admitted it being there own fault taking shortcuts, using bad anchors or forgetting how to tie a bowline and not checking their weight on it whilst still on a sideline, but I guess they might have been avoided with an extra rope anyway. I find it also complicates rigging in some situations, and have seen colleagues tangle themselves up more than once with the addition of another line. Still, them the rules.
Couldn't agree more, well said. On most harness your two ropes will be tied into one bridge so it makes them irrelevant. Harness manufactures will catch up though in time and most new harness already do come with the option of two bridges. I do also enjoy two rope use when the benefits of the triangulation out way the speed difference. Thanks alot for your comment, stay safe ✌️
You ve done incredibly well using two systems at the time. Poor climbers up your end. Seems like this is a new rule up in the UK? A bit nonsense I think. What's the point anyway. Almost seems more dangerous when rigging is involved and ground staff chipping and cutting stuff 🤔
Thanks Gregor I appreciate it. It has been strange adapting to the change. Rigging can be very troublesome, it also increases the chances of roped being chipped which would be terrible. Thanks for the comment ✌️
