One Scene That Explains Why Lord of the Rings Worked and The HOBBIT Didn't | SCENE FIGHTS

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The Lord of the Rings trilogy is an epic milestone in cinema a truly astonishing achievement marriage of script, story, tech, and design. Whereas the Hobbit trilogy tried to duplicate that success by replicating that trilogy, instead of telling its own story. But we think there's one scene in each movie that shows exactly why one trilogy is an all-time great, and the other has Legolas skipping up falling stones like Mario.
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Edited by Harriet Lengel-Enright
#LordOfTheRings #Hobbit #ringsofpower
Now I don’t want to beat a dead horse on how bad the Hobbit is. Lindsay Ellis already made a perfect trilogy of videos where she went to New Zealand and extensively investigated these films. These videos are grar, you should watch them.
It’s not surprising that the Hobbit was so bad, because look at how many beloved franchises Warner Brothers has managed to screw up [montage].
What is extraordinary is that the Lord of the rings trilogy managed to be so good-so perfect, and was largely free form the same studio interference that hobbled its prequel. So the question for me is why. Why was the Lord of the Rings so good, and the Hobbit so…Hobbit? We could list off a million bad things about the hobbit [the joke about his trousers in Smaug] and great things about Lord of the Rings [you bow to no one].
But I think we can distill these movies into one very scene that sets the tone for each trilogy-one scene that shows why one of these movies was one of film’s achievements in technique and characterization that activated an international interest in Fantasy stories, and why the other movie was this.
First I want to give you a little background on the making of the Hobbit. Because, you may not be up on all the studio politics, or haven;t watched those Lindsay ellis videos I mentioned. So after Return of the King was released, the Hobbit was in development for years. This is because the rights to film were shared by about 5 different studios, who had all been trying to develop the property into a film at some point.
Guillermo del Toro was signed on to direct the Hobbit as one movie-and he moved his entire family to New Zealand for a year and a half, while he developed the movie.
Doug: Wow, Guillermo Del Toro doing the Hobbit, that would have been awesome!
I know, right? But Warner Brothers-wanted the movie to be very much like the look and feel of the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Essentially, they wanted to give the audience more of the same. Del Toro had his own vision for the Hobbit that didn;t mesh with this, so he left.
Now Warner Brothers had a fixed release date, and they told Producer Peter Jackson that they would move the production form New Zealand if he didn’t step in to direct. So he did, because he wanted to keep those jobs in his home country. [they took our jobs!] So The first lord of the rings series took years to develop, as the crew created unique weapons and armor based on individual cultures.
Sets were meticulously created by hand. The pants in Hobbiton were grown a year in advance. But for this movie, Jackson was forced to hit the ground running. No script, no careful planning, no meticulous sets.
Doug: Is that why every background looks like a cartoon?
Yes, because everything was rushed, CGI. And warnbed brothers really flexed their muscles, forcing him to split the film into three parts, because they had to split the revenue of the first film with 4 other studios.
But I will say that part of this blame is on Peter Jackson. He may have been forced into making 3 movies, but each movie didn’t have to be three hours long. IN his efforts to transform the Hobbit into a new Lord of the Rings trilogy, he added bloat that only copied the original film. They need a hot king like Aragorn, so this dwarf becomes hot. They need a love triangle like Eowyn and Arwyn and Aragorn, so this dwarf and this elf, I guess [in my trousers, why does it hurt,,..it was real].
We don’t have black riders, but we have a rivalry with some albino orc, they lift random pieces of the score, and we even got a pointless gandalf side quest to mirror his time away form Hobbiton in the first film.
And if you’ve ever read the Hobbit, you know that it is no Lord of the rings. It’s a simple children’s tale. Not very violent, filled with songs and riddles, and we don’t even see the final battle because the protagonist is unconscious. It’s a sweet book that totally stands alone,a dn the movies are terrible adaptations of the story. Mostly…because they’re boring. [American Beauty you’re boring, text on faces]

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29 авг 2022

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Комментарии : 2 тыс.

@ScreenCrush 10 месяцев назад

What was wrong with the Hobbit trilogy?

@user-pi2ee1ql1t 8 месяцев назад

Nothing much, i actually prefer the first hobbit film over a majority of LOTR. Because my first introduction LOTR was through the hobbit films. yes some parts do feel dragged but overall it was enjoyable

@Angiesensei. 7 месяцев назад

Weak stories in every cast, I saw a lack of development on each character. The bad CGI. In moments I felt the Hobbit was a television serie because of scenes and dialogues. Very simple in almost everything. You can feel poor the preparation in Hobbit😭😭😭.

@riverotter68 7 месяцев назад

too much that was not in the book!

@ebonypegasus9864 6 месяцев назад

Nothing... it was still good movies.

@hugoapresname 5 месяцев назад

There was a lack of *development* of the relationships. They focused on Bilbo and Thorin. I think the temptation with cgi (and landscape) heavy productions is to forget that you have SKILLED actors. Bilbo never never never really interacted with the very unique personalities of the dwarfs. They are portrayed visually, yes. But not through the emotional eyes of Bilbo and by building relationships to EACH of them. One Moment or meaning interaction with each would have sufficed! That’s really the wonderful job of Film Production Writers! And then Actors have material to really *play* on. Instead of running and jumping around aaaaalll theeeee tiiiiimmmmeeee.

@dallaspoll Год назад

I worked on both trilogies. A significant amount of the difference can be attributed to the whole approach to the production due to constraints and edicts coming from the top. LOTR was an absolute labour of love for the whole cast and crew. One big family, everyone 110% invested in creating to the utmost of their (considerable) ability. Heck, I worked with many crew who would likely have worked on it for free. All this somehow comes through in the films in an indefinable quality that can’t be replicated no matter how much money and insistence you throw at a project. For me, that’s the difference. The heart. LOTR has it in spades, inside and out. Hobbit has rare flashes of it but just became a massive machine ( despite the hard work, talent and dedication of all involved). I’m just grateful to still be living here in “Middle Earth” ( a stones throw from Edoras 😬).

@ALBINO1D Год назад

Thanks for your part and contribution to the labors of love.

@dazenguile4215 Год назад

That does make sense.. it’s like the difference between eating a meal cooked by cooks at Applebee’s instead of a dinner cooked with love by grandma.

@stevenwilson5556 Год назад

@@dazenguile4215 fair, but I still felt there were moments in The Hobbit trilogy where some of grandma's flavors came through. I thought when Thorin showed up in the beginning how it changed the character of the way the Dwarves interacted, and the singing the Misty Mountains song. I loved his final scene with Bilbo, I have rewatched that many times.

@helgijonsson3537 Год назад

Can I ask what your role was on these movies? Just curious :)

@dallaspoll Год назад

@@helgijonsson3537 Sure - LOTR Trilogy I was Aragorn cast double for Viggo, casual stunt crew and also made his coronation crown (lots of jobs!). Hobbit trilogy I was lead jeweller - two years of work, massive job. Galadriel’s silver crown and brooches, rings of power and Bilbos acorn button were highlights. Cheers!

@majkus Год назад

"In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit." One of the most famous opening lines in all of English-language literature. And yet, it was delayed for thirteen minutes. If a framing story is needed, just do ten seconds of an early-Disney storybook opening and give us the voice of Sean Astin as Sam, reading the Red Book to his children. Fan-service nostalgia and a proper beginning at no extra cost.

@dursty3226 Год назад

that's a freaking amazing idea!

@johannpopper1493 Год назад

Good point.

@jayfredrickson8632 Год назад

I agree, that would have worked better.

@mukkaar Год назад

That would have been pretty damn amazing

@damiendabomba67 Год назад

Literally the best way they could’ve done it

@robdor5 Год назад

I agree that it was a shame that Bilbo wasn't the hero of his own movie. The book is clearly the story of Bilbo learning to find his courage and be more than he thought he was. The most triumphant scene is where Bilbo kills the spider by himself and saves the dwarves. And the movies made it about how the ring is starting to corrupt him.

@aleksandrneprimerov278 Год назад

yes, and it was just a simple invisibility ring initially. tolkien retconned it into the one ring of power much later

@timesthree5757 Год назад

Um he wasn't in the book either.

@BlacksmithTWD Год назад

@@timesthree5757 Who wasn't in which book?

@timesthree5757 Год назад

@@BlacksmithTWD Bilbo wasn't the Hero in his book. If yall quit being sheeple for a little bit. You will notice that the hobbit is about bilbo, and Thorin,

@BlacksmithTWD Год назад

@@timesthree5757 Whether he was a hero in the book can be debatable, but he certainly was a character in the book. No need for name calling.

@danfish300 Год назад

I actually like the Hobbit trilogy, though I recognise the flaws, but your suggestion of how to fix the beginning is completely on point. Peter Jackson did say that he regretted how the movie panned out, and he would redo it if he could.

@soundphile988 Год назад

I agree The hobbit is definately watchable. Especially now that Rings of power is out, the bar has been lowered so much I would rather watch the hobbit trology twice than having to watch Rings of power lol.

@danfish300 Год назад

@@soundphile988 RoP is just terrible. At least the Hobbit movies have likeable characters hahah!

@damonlynx8251 Год назад

@@danfish300 RoP?

@danfish300 Год назад

@@damonlynx8251 Rings of Power frendo :)

@damonlynx8251 Год назад

@@danfish300 Ohh thanks :P

@njt2347 Год назад

18:40 "I love Martin Freeman in this film. I really wish they would let him be the hero of his own film". Of all the problems with the Hobbit that's the biggest one. My favorite moments in these movies are his interactions with the Dwarves. If they would have ditched the Dwarves fighting the dragon, Legolas, and the whole romance bit and instead just focused on Bilbo and his freindship with the Dwarves (and given them distinct personalities) there could have been a great movie here.

@MartijnVos Год назад

And if they really had to add more content to the movie, use it to give the dwarves some characterisation. They didn't have much in the books either, so I don't blame the movies for not doing that either, but if you're going to add stuff, that should have been near the top of the list. And not all the nonsensical crap they did add.

@kfhroe8262 Год назад

Indeed! The protagonist of the book is Bilbo (aka The Hobbit). The protagonist(s) of the movies is Thorin (and the dwarves). Sure, Bilbo helps, like Gandalf, like Bard, but the story develops around Thorin and the dwarves. Also Smaug in the book is smart and outsmarted by Bilbo using his vanity. Smaug in the movies is dumb and outrunned by the shortlegged stumps. Smaug was able to chase a city and an army of dwarves and now cannot get any dwarf? And when he corners the opponents he leaves them in "his" home and flies away? How dumb is this?

@Pippis78 Год назад

The worst thing is the "what could have been". These could have been such brilliant films.

@danielnilsson9835 Год назад

There is a fancut that I think you would like. I think that fancut is better than the whole trilogy, trimning alot of ”fat” that was not in the book.

@karmicpopcorn6440 Год назад

@@danielnilsson9835 link or it didn't happen 😂

@dorat.88 Год назад

The journey was so unexpected, even the writers didn't know it was gonna happen

@paulwilliams2024 Месяц назад

Lmfao

@janondrej Год назад

“You bow to no one”. Damn, every time, after so many years when I hear this quote, it is still so powerful and moving.

@SK-ut6tw Год назад

I just rewatched LOTR trilogy. It's still so mesmerizing. His love and respect for the source material just radiated in those films.

@jeremyesparza239 Год назад

They're great adaptations but they shit all over the source material lmao

@SK-ut6tw Год назад

@@jeremyesparza239 Not really. The Hobbit somewhat but there was a reason for that.

@jeremyesparza239 Год назад

@@SK-ut6tw There was so much Peter Jackson changed about the plot that Christopher Tolkien called it an abomination lol, I love those movies but here's some of the biggest crimes: Frodo never abandoned Sam Faramir never thought about taking the ring and Frodo and Sam never went to Osgiliath Sauruman didn't die on Orthanc, he took over the Shire under the name of Sharky and the hobbits had to start a rebellion to remove him from the shire. Tom Bombadil was completely left out Aragorn acted like he was ashamed of his mantle for some reason I could go on and on and the movies are overall the best adaptation we've gotten so far but they are so far from faithful to source material

@jeremyesparza239 Год назад

@@SK-ut6tw But the hobbit trilogy made the LOTR trilogy look like Tolkien directed it himself

@SK-ut6tw Год назад

@@jeremyesparza239 I've read all of the books and the simarillion and as a huge fan for years I feel Jackson did very well bringing the world to life as best as he could. No doubt he had to cut out most of the first book because the shire takes up about 300 pages alone. Just the hobbits leaving the shire and getting to the inn and then the woods takes up more than half of the fellowship of the ring.

@darthrage8673 Год назад

I believe that if the studio would have just backed off, Jackson would have made a great Hobbit movie. Peter Jackson has proved that he can make great movies if he puts his heart and soul into them. But ever since Harry Potter split Deathly Hallows into two movies, every movie that is based on a book has to split the last movie into two, if it needs it or not. In fact if all studios backed off the directors, we would have better movies that would live on through history. But no, studios don’t care about art, they care about money. They don’t care if it’s good enough or spectacular, they only care about the first 2 weeks a movie is released and if it grossed tens of millions in its first week. They don’t care if people have a life changing moment or feel empty inside, they want viewers excited to see the new movie as soon as possible.

@christophertaylor9100 Год назад

Well there's a good argument on both sides. Sometimes directors get bloated and ridiculous, and need someone to rein them in as well.

@maryjoyspohrer256 Год назад

The last Potter book was large enough to be made into 2 movies. The Hobbit is a one movie book and they tried to milk it for money and it shows.

@christophertaylor9100 Год назад

@@maryjoyspohrer256 I could see it maybe split into two, depending on pacing, but yeah, definitely not a trilogy.

@inglefinger Год назад

@@christophertaylor9100 The impression I got was that the studio gave Jackson a lot more free reign with the Hobbit in their rush to complete it and this actually contributed to the movie’s downfall. On LOTR he had a lot more people telling him “No.”

@nooneatall8072 Год назад

Unfortunately studios have to worry about paying back the massive loans that they had to take out to pay for making said movie(s). If the movie in question doesn't make back that money (plus its interest) there won't be any more loans to make more of these movies. I am not saying that I like that. It just....is.😕

@Marksman3434 Год назад

The LOTR trilogy is nothing short of a cinematic miracle not just in that it was made at all, but also in how damn amazing it turned out. It's simply incredible how Jackson and co. managed to capture that lightning in a bottle with it. Sad that they didn't do the same for The Hobbit films.

@paulwerner3259 Год назад

They weren’t given the time required

@terrin.hellwig1375 Год назад

@@paulwerner3259 Ex

@CorePathway Год назад

When they turned Bilbo into Rambo all of the charm was gone.

@fgb3126 Год назад

And that sums up this entire video.

@JeantheSecond Год назад

Film. For starters, it should have been film. Singular.

@Extremeredfox Год назад

The Magician's Nephew I'd argue is one of the best books in the series, especially if you don't see it exclusively as a kid's book. Often times, it cleverly speaks about humanity and its flaws, dangers, and has an ominous warning of what will happen if we don't change for the better. The symbolism, parallels, and metaphors are well done. A child probably would struggle with this, but adults should be able to pick up on these inflections, especially in the modern-day context.

@MarysiaKosowski Год назад

I also love The Magician's Nephew, as I love all the Narnia books. It's not meant to be read from a surface-level "here's the prequel" perspective. Plot is not the only reason for writing literature, nor for reading it. This book is rich in symbolism and valuable life lessons. :)

@DentGal83 Год назад

And it’s not the first book - it’s the second to last book ;)

@sofaspudd 7 месяцев назад

I totally agree. I love all the Narnia books, but for my money the weakest in the series is Prince Caspian, the 2nd in the series after Lion, Witch, & Wardrobe (they've reordered the books by story chronology in recent printings but Magician's Nephew was originally the sixth of seven). I think C.S. Lewis didn't start out to write a series of books, but LW&W was a big success... so he penned a sequel (Prince Caspian). Like most sequels it was less satisfying than the original, but after that Lewis reconciled to writing a series and mapped out what he wanted for each episode as well as the overall work. Making Magician's Nephew (the Narnia creation story) the penultimate episode before The Last Battle (the Narnian 'end times' story) was a shrewd, deliberate ordering of the stories. I'm sorry the publishers have switched the book order and I agree with ScreenCrush that Magician's Nephew is a really poor INTRODUCTION to the world of Narnia. 😁

@benjaminaguilera8097 Год назад

Honestly I like the Hobbit. Not as much as LOTR of course but I enjoy them, and the song the dwarfs sing the night they spend at Bilbo's is just... beautiful. It gives me the chills every time.

@charis2318 Год назад

I agree. Its fun to watch, but there are also a lot of bad moments that make me cringe (lotr didnt have that). But i love the dwarfs and Bilbo and bard. It didnt stick to source material, but the only thing that really annoys me is the overuse of CGI…

@markhamer5112 Год назад

I planned to argue but your critique is excellent. So I’ll just humbly submit that The Hobbit still worked well compared with most movies. It only fails to deliver if you compare it with The Lord of the Rings which is an exceptional trilogy.

@annabees Год назад

it's definitely a rather good, fantasy movie. When I first watched it I was disappointed the first time I watched it. I think the beginning makes it the worst for moviegoers. Also, the issue is, it keeps trying to remind us of the LOTR, but it's definitely pale in comparison. I really enjoyed 100% the films when I stopped thinking about LOTR and got into the story for itself. I think that was only the second time I watched it

@osr4152 Год назад

I dont know. I have watched LOTR countless times. When I saw them in the cinema I remember thinking 'how can I wait another year for the next part????' But saw the 1st Hobbit and couldn't be bothered with the other two, think I saw a few clips but ..meh.

@hugoapresname 5 месяцев назад

That Song was/is really wonderful. But the critique here (after 10 years time of analysis though!) is very correct. The ‘first act’ is too long and I have problems to get invested into what’s happening. Because the ‘unexpected journey’ seems to never ever happen 😢. The Gandalf/Thorin tavern scene fits at the beginning of the third movie. About strategy and position and battle of five armies and so on. The second movie should have been more around Mirkwood forest/elves. Dwarves and Elves fighting against Spiders and Necromancers and fighting against loosing hope because all odds are against them, relieving in meeting Bard who gives them hope about the potential to kill the dragon at all - that it can be hurt. But then everybody would criticise it’s too far from the original right? 😅

@Tre325 Год назад

Honestly, given how poorly the studio handled The Hobbit, it could've been worse and I still enjoyed watching the trilogy.

@2100Warzone Год назад

It could have been worse, but not by much.

@shawnwarrynn8609 Год назад

I think that it may have something to do with making it a trilogy instead of a single film, or two at most.

@valasdarkholme6255 Год назад

@@shawnwarrynn8609 Maple Films recut.

@positronisomer206 Год назад

Agreed. “Insult to human intelligence” is certainly hyperbole. Enjoy it for what it is. Everyone is such a troll 🧌

@johnh1353 Год назад

Amazon is going to make the Hobbit look like a masterpiece

@russrichardson991 Год назад

The adaptation of The Lord of the Rings was a gift to a larger audience by people who loved Tolkien’s work. The Hobbit was an ATM for the studio.

@judywright4241 Год назад

Well said☑️

@tannuroakes2553 Год назад

Went to every lord of the rings movie in theaters, bought the first releases and then the extended editions so they got hundreds of dollars just off me. I saw the first hobbit in theaters and was so disappointed I have never seen the other two. I got to say must be a quick ATM withdrawal vs an actual investment. Same thing with the Harry potters. Easily thousands spend on Harry Potter but only saw the first fantastic beasts. Probably would have spent so much more over the long term on their merch and movies but once again short term gains over long term profit.

@neversaydie2041 Год назад

The hobbit was good. They didn't need a third movie

@aidangriffiths5075 Год назад

Production was just all over the place and destroyed by behind the scenes issues

@nooneatall8072 Год назад

@@aidangriffiths5075 What behind the scenes issues?

@kosmas173 Год назад

I wouldn't say Thorin was inspired by Aragorn but more from Boromir since he was the one that was tempted by the ring and in the end realized his misdeeds and gave his life fighting.

@elysiumsnakefarm1185 Год назад

Thorin in the movie being tempted by the Arkenstone was actually inspired by Thorin in the book, who was tempted by the Arkenstone.

@jmwoods190 Год назад

Though the flashback of Thorin cutting of Azog's hand really echoed the prologue of the Fellowship of the Ring in which Isildur cutting off Sauron's fingers during the War of the Last Alliance. I'd say Peter Jackson drew on all 3 of Aragorn, Isildur and Boromir when it came to Thorin.

@awsome182 7 месяцев назад

The looks and his demeanor in the movies were definitely inspired by Aragorn. They wanted a second Aragorn, but this time they couldn't make a happy end for him, because there is none in the book. Thorin gets corrupted and then he dies in battle. But Thorin was actually the oldest of the dwarves, so making him look like a "young" man was obviously a nod to Aragorn.

@brilliantsims4355 Год назад

I feel like you just put what I've been feeling since the first movie came out into words. I agree with ALL of this. It had the potential for greatness, and there are certain moments that are great, but overall it just falls completely flat. Unlike LOTR, that still to this day makes me tear up just watching short clips from it.

@JamesEzell Год назад

The Hobbit was a perfectly contained book. They added to much extra to the story. This killed it for me.

@Stilicho19801 Год назад

The studio could have made a single movie that was faithful to the book and two original movies with non-Hobbit material.

@timberwolfdan5910 Год назад

Why? If they didn’t add anything people would literally complain it didn’t have as much action as Lord of the Rings. Damned if you do damned if you don’t.

@davidperry7128 Год назад

To make a film that fit with the LOTR films the Hobbit had to be darkened in tone or it would not have acted as a prequel. That had to be the intent. I enjoy it but some of the silly bits, Legolas and his superhero stuff, the Dwarves being uncouth and the writing at times....how many times did they have Sir Ian shout 'run'?

@PaperMario64 Год назад

Agreed

@alauriebees Год назад

@@davidperry7128 Having Sir Ian shout "Run!" repeatedly was actually a top 3 most irritating aspect of the Hobbit trilogy, in my opinion - a huge waste of resources and talent. My other 2 are: Legolas and Tariel being in the films at all, and stretching out the story so much that the third film is even needed to conclude the story.

@Lord-Emperor-Vader Год назад

Bilbo does not decide to join in that moment let me finish the quote "He looked out of the window. The stars were out in a dark sky above the trees. He thought of the jewels of the dwarves shining in dark caverns. Suddenly in the wood beyond The Water a flame leapt up -probably someone lighting a wood fire-and he thought of the plundering dragon settling on his quiet Hill and kindling it all to flames. He shuddered: and verry quickly he was plain Mr. Bilbo Baggins of Bag-End, Under-Hill again." It then tells how he wanted to run away and hide. He did not leave until Gandalf pushed him to go the next morning.

@v-rex6262 Год назад

I love that Bilbo decides to join the company on impulse. He makes his chooses his own path rather than it being chosen for him. Though Gandalf giving him a nudge out the door was funnier.

@Ithenna Год назад

Yes, but that was definitely the point where we saw Bilbo had a desire for adventure somewhere within himself. If he at least showed some kind of interest in the film, like he was at least considering signing the contract at one point after the dwarves tell their stories and sing their songs before finally refusing out of an imagined fear and going to bed, it would've made more sense. The version we got was done full scale comedy style instead, which is why it felt so out of place and anticlimactic. You can't set a serious plot when the characters have comedic motives. Don't get me wrong, there still could've been comedy in the dialogue or actions and it still work, but an impulsive cut scene with no real reasoning just kills all the potential for character building. Bilbo impulsively joining at the point the dwarves finished their tales would've at least still shown a reason for his change of attitude without detracting from the character as he was written in the book.

@Lord-Emperor-Vader Год назад

@@Ithenna Yes this is what the quote is meant to show why he would eventually join Thorin's company my point is he only used half of the quote to prove his point when the rest of it proved him wrong that this was the moment he decided to join Thorin's company in the book.

@Ithenna Год назад

@@Lord-Emperor-Vader Oh ok. I thought he was just using it to say that the first part would've been a better way to portray it in the movie (even though that wasn't the actual point when he joined).

@Lord-Emperor-Vader Год назад

@@Ithenna He was saying that is what should happen based on the fact this is when he decided to in the book and this is not when he decided to leave it was the next morning when Gandalf literally pushed him out the door.

@mememan5466 Год назад

Gandalf wasn't surprised that sauron had returned, he was surprised that Bilbo had found the one ring. There where a lot of lesser rings at the time of lord of the rings and he thought that it was just some weak ring of invisibility but that was all Bilbo used if for because that's all he knew to use it for

@ohifonlyx33 Год назад

Okay but seeing Frodo and Bilbo in the shire just before Gandalf comes to town for the birthday party is the one time that I will happily munch on the nostalgia bait. It just works to frame this movie as Bilbo's novel... and I also might have cried seeing them again... that was before I saw the rest of the never-should-have-been-a-trilogy

@kropianimation1774 Год назад

My main problem with the adaption of the Hobbit is the structure of the film trilogy. The Hobbit book is a rather short, self-contained novel. It's great because it doesnt feel prequel-y at all. Yes, it sets up main characters, plot devices & introduces us to Middle Earth, but in the book it never feels like "Oh, this is just the apetizer before the big event". It's it's own story, that isn't all the time "Hey, LOTR is up next, how exciting" (mainly because it was written before LOTR). The film adaption feels too much like it's trying to make you remember LOTR than being it's own thing. I saw Willow for the first time recently and Willow feels much more like what a film adaption of The Hobbit should feel like than The Hobbit trilogy itself.

@Lord-Emperor-Vader Год назад

That is because the Hobbit is not a prequel, in fact Tolkien didn't even plan a sequel originally and had to rewrite the end of Riddles In The Dark to have Gollum and the Ring fit better into Lord Of The Rings. The story originally went that Gollum was going to give the ring to Bilbo but he lost it and lead him out instead. Although that seems like a lazy rewrite Tolkien actually said the original story was written is the way Bilbo told the story to the Dwarves and he lied about the real events.

@randalthor1955 Год назад

they had already Willow as an example of how to make a good "hobbit" movie. not even 2 hours long. real, down to earth. for me the hobbit is somehow superior to the Lotr books because as in the Stevenson "Treasure Island" its perfect in its limits. Lotr develops an epic and grandeur imposible to find in the hobbit, but as fiction books have some flaws in rithm(a 8.5 out of 10). the Hobbit novel, like tresure island or King Solomon Mines, is perfection. (a 10!)

@gianna526 Год назад

And the producers and writers seem to forget that The Hobbit is entirely from Bilbo's pov, we don't leave him once. If something happens and Bilbo doesn't hear about it or see it, we don't know about it, except Smaug's death (I don't remember exactly how that scene was written in the book but ik Bilbo wasn't there)

@Lord-Emperor-Vader Год назад

@@gianna526 The chapter where Smaug dies is the only chapter set outside of Bilbo's presence although a few other moments like when Thorin is imprisoned by the Wood Elves. The Lake Town chapter is seen through the eyes of the people of Lake Town mainly Bard.

@rocketraccoon1976 Год назад

Right on! Willow is what the Hobbit should have been! If only...

@WickedPrince3D Год назад

I've read the Hobbit many times and from what I remember Bilbo rejects "the call" just as many times as he does in the movie. He's a Hobbit; Hobbit's do not go on adventures; it takes him a long time to decide to throw caution to the wind and just go despite his every Hobbit instinct telling him to stay home in his cozy warm home. Otherwise; I think you are generally right about the film being over-bloated and everything else. I mean yeah the romance is WEIRD; but any movie feels a little off if there isn't one somehow; somewhere. Plus there was not one single female character in the entire novel except maybe if Smaug was female. Oh and of course Bilbo's greedy aunt that tries to steal the silverware if she can't steal all of Bag End.

@mrc4912 Год назад

Genetics played an important part in making Bilbo 'less respectable' by Hobbit soicietal norms: Bilbo's (Baggins) father was very respectable but his mother, Balladonna Took, was much more adventuresome and flamboyant. Anyhow, Gandalf recognized this quality in him when he chose him to go on their great adventure into the dragon's lair...

@briandonovan5687 Год назад

I really liked the Hobbit trilogy. I did Love Lord of the Rings and will watch it for many years to come. I did appreciate them telling the full story of that time to bring it all together n not having to wait for 20 years like what happened with Star Wars. Having those Hobbit movies available to watch for Marathon movie weekends I think is great

@sabster79 Год назад

You mentioned “The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe”. You officially have my heart.

@SirVelvetKnight Год назад

I know it'll never happen, but I wish we could see a director's cut with just the 2 movies as Jackson intended.

@Scapemaster00 Год назад

Sadly, I think they need more than a director's cut to make the movies we wish to see. It would have to go back in time to re write, and re film entire scenes and arcs

@sevensongs Год назад

@@Scapemaster00 Yes I have to question if it's even possible... It depends on what other footage they have that has never been released. I'm tempted to try to make my own cut (since the best fan edit out there still doesn't have great pacing)! There IS some good stuff in there. It's just mixed in with so much of the other...

@Valisk Год назад

Someone has uploaded a fan edit version where they cut everything from the trilogy that wasn't in the book and condensed it into a single movie. It works so much better than what was released - worth looking up.

@catfdljws Год назад

My favorite thing about The Hobbit films really are the appendices. The story of the actors going through all this and their personal bonding, their ways of creating unique personalities where the book really just made them all the same (as did the Rankin Bass production), the design work, the successful moments of rising to a challenge of short time to production (there are many good moments), Andy Serkis's first efforts as an AD, and even Peter's own personal challenges and admissions of why and when stuff isn't working. THAT is a human interest story worth following. Plus we still get lots of footage of New Zealand and lots of Shore's great music. So otherwise, I go through Maple Films's "Tolkien Edit" - cut to 4 1/2 hours. In fact, their spin-off edit, taking Gandalf's side quest and making it its own hour-long thing, actually works reasonably well as a self-contained work. It was clear that like Two Towers, Jackson basically edited all of that as a single story and then had to decide how to splice it in, but put back together, the pacing flows really well.

@DanielKlein23 Год назад

A tiny detail to add, but there actually WAS a ring that did corrupt Thorin in this movie. He was carrying one of the 7, passed on to him from his grandfather and his father. While dwarves were made by Aulë to be resistant to corruption, the rings did have some effect on them: it caused their gold sickness. The ring of Durin's folk is what caused Thorin's downfall.

@gottlob3 Год назад

Thank You, someone else knows more of the total lore. There was a lot of information that was weaved in from the Silmarillion. Like the fact that you listed, and explains why the Arkenstone was prized so much.

@DanielKlein23 Год назад

@@gottlob3 Thanks but I actually double checked and I *think* I might be wrong? I think Thorin's father had the Durin family ring when he was captured trying to retake the lonely mountain. This was about a hundred years before the events of the Hobbit. However you could still say that the essence of the ring corrupted the entire family tree and so while Thorin didn't have Thror's ring, the goldlust he felt was indirectly caused by it.

@rkh7360 Год назад

LOTR is a masterpiece. The actors, the script and everything else. It was always gonna be difficult to live upto.

@linneasr Год назад

Meh, the Hobbit was not that bad. Thorin's death scene still moves me today, and I loved Smaug.

@silhouettefades Год назад

Exactly, I loved the Hobbit stories. They was phenomenal yet while I say this, I'll also say the story of the Lord of the Rings will remain among my absolute favorites of all time, if not the absolute best of all time in movie history.

@xuxon24 Год назад

I do agree with Ryan but I also agree with you, it wasn't that bad. It's a trilogy that I can comfortably watch something that other movies that for me are really disasters I can't.

@rockinHurley777 Год назад

@@silhouettefades were*

@duecedajuice2678 Год назад

Agreed

@stevenwilson5556 Год назад

Agree, the haters love to hate, but there's really that many fantasy movies as good as the Hobbit. Granted LotR was incredibly better in many ways, but that's probably the best fantasy series ever produced.

@stevenplatt2307 Год назад

Love seeing this comparison, especially with Rings of Power on the horizon. The Hobbit definitely had some great moments, but most of it was bloated. Maple Films has a 4-hour edit of the Hobbit trilogy called "JRR Tolkien's The Hobbit" that focuses specifically on Bilbo and the dwarves, telling a tighter story closer to the book. I enjoyed that most of the issues Ryan brought up with this prologue were solved in a similar way in this edit. This edit is my favorite way to watch the Hobbit now!

@catfdljws Год назад

just mentioned the Maple Films edit myself above. Their edit of Gandalf's side quest actually works pretty well on its own. Without the interruptions of Bilbo (snark), the pacing is slow, deliberate, the spookiness of the unknown continues to grip, even engulf. In the final films, we get to a scary bit but then going back to Bilbo/Dwarves, it is all forgotten when we flip back to Gandalf later. It turns the sequences from fan-service (hey, want to see what the appendices said happened here) to an actual production.

@francissellerdude Год назад

Yes! MapleFilms's The Hobbit was sick. That is how I watch The Hobbit. Durin's Folk short film was sick too

@BenBootKHTwo Год назад

Where can I find the edit of the Hobbit? I'd like to see the 4-hour cut.

@stevenplatt2307 Год назад

@@BenBootKHTwo The maple films website has the edit. Please own the original trilogy before viewing or downloading to give acknowledgement to the original creators.

@stevenplatt2307 Год назад

@@crazyalarmstudios2012 The M4 edit looks gold from the cut-list! I will watch this edit next! This edit is on M4's website. Again, please own the original trilogy before viewing or downloading to give acknowledgement to the original creators.

@omarniazi8378 Год назад

9:36 Just a slight error here. The nine emerge from Minas Morgul. Just for anyone who’s interested.

@syntaxed2 Год назад

I liked the hobbit - It highlighted the caring and emphatic nature of hobbits, the finding of the ring, Gandalfs travels, the sickness of smaug and the revelation of sauron. It did more good things than bad.

@Wintertier Год назад

The Tauriel x Killi Lovestory was mandated by the studio as well! PJ did promise Evangeline Lily her character won't be part of a love triangle but Warner flexed, butted in and forced them to do it. The reason it's bloated is one PJ and Co did not have enough time for a first or second pass on the script AND because Warner wanted stuff in there and demanded a certain length and content. You learn that in Lindsey's videos and cast interviews. (Evangeline has been pretty vocal about it over the last years)

@nikulus2840 Год назад

I reaaaally love the Hobbit trilogy. I don't care what anyone says. But i can definetely see why people don't like them. I understand it, and respect other's opinions, but personally i really love them.

@danfish300 Год назад

Pretty much me too...I see it's flaws, but I still enjoy it :)

@Kristin-A-Book-Dragon Год назад

Agreed 😊

@thehunter7422 Год назад

Same . Enjoyed em alot. Same with Rings of Power ATM . If I start a binge session I'll always go from Unexpected Journey to Return of the king. Eventually in the next couple of years when all 5 seasons of Rings of Power are out , I'll be starting with those first then Hobbit then LOTR 😄 going from Second Age to Third Age. Can't wait to eventually make that happen. Ordered the 4k sets finally ( the big Middle Earth collection) for Hobbit and LOTR . Can't wait to finally see how better they look . And of course to make it even feel more slightly closer to the look of Rings of Power when it comes to color and shots of locations, charecters and creatures or objects . Hate that I'll probably have to wait till like 2025 or 6 to be able to do that lol 😥 but it'll be worth the wait

@richardhawkins2248 Год назад

Actually, having read the original version of all of his works I liked all of it. By stretching out the Hobbit there was a chance to bring in the back story that is Simarillion. That wonderful love story with Aeowyn and Faramir never happened until everybody had to complain and rewrite it through JRR by telling him why his wonderful book had to change. In the original books Aeowyn was killed in battle the battle where her father was killed in this version. The problem with that is that the story as told was just fine. It was rewritten by the kind of cretins that beat each other up at Scifi conventions for mispronouncing a Klingon word. If any adult takes a real look at actual history, it is full of WTF's? Everybody complained until he rewrote it to appease the peanut gallery. Do I blame Tolkien for that? Nope! He was old he had an excuse.

@riasimpson3874 Год назад

To be honest The Hobbit trilogy is more of a favorite to me than LOTR. I thought the Hobbit was just the right amount of movies for the story. LOTR just seemed a bit too crammed into three movies when it could have been done in maybe 5 or something. Some of the events that happened seemed too rush in terms of progression and to be honest, The Hobbit was a more compelling story. While I loved the premise of LOTR, The Hobbit was more relatable and personal. I have watched The Hobbit trilogy more than LOTR and I ended up watching them over and over again during the pandemic. Doing the ironing, cleaning up, doing laundry... it became my movie to watch on a bluetooth headset while going about the house. The Hobbit just made me really happy.

@EsbenHeick Год назад

I found a "Hobbit Cut" where someone had recut the movie. It removed every scene not featuring Martin Freeman. Curiously it does more or less what is imagined here. Cuts away lots and lots of pointless info and does away with the entire gandalf subplot that Bilbo is not around to see. Also cuts away the computer game scenes and when Bilbo is knocked out in the end of the last battle, the scene ends because hes not there to see it. Details are explained enough afterwards. Brings the trilogy down to a single full evening movie It was pretty solid.

@apollolinaire2607 Год назад

Honestly great video. Wasn't expecting much from that title but it's a very well spoken and knowledgable videoessay. Nice job!

@clone1creator Год назад

Just a thought here, but King Durin had a ring given by Celebrimbor. This was one of the seven and the mightiest of them all. The side effects of the said ring were to create greed over gold/jewels. A big gem just so happens to be the Arkenstone, so maybe it's due to the rings power that the Arkenstone was such a valued object.

@Lodrik18 Год назад

The Dwarfs lost all 7 rings due to greed (mostly hording that in turn lead to dragon attacks). This was of course due to the rings, they were created to corrupt (like the nine) but dwarfs were literary created with resistance to corruption and the greed was simply strongly amplified...

@captcorajus Год назад

To me, the Rankin/ Bass version of the Hobbit is still the best telling of Tolkien's tale... which is a real shame. I guess I was expecting a live action, more detailed version of that lovely story from my childhood, which is why I was heartbrokenly disappointed with the movies we got.

@NimbusAngelo Год назад

The M4 Hobbit fan edit is a superb single-film version of the trilogy, and I highly recommend it!

@captcorajus Год назад

@@NimbusAngelo Link?

@SG-js2qn Год назад

With LotR, the studio wanted to make an excellent movie series that took the world of hobbits and elves seriously. With Hobbit, they wanted to plunder the remnants of Tolkien's work in order to dig for gold in the pockets of fans. The Hobbit series was basically merch, like mugs and bed sheets, sold to fans of the LotR trilogy.

@timhalstead9790 Год назад

I enjoyed both movies, I've read The Hobbit 9 times and The Lord of the Rings 7 times, all the movies were nicely done and entertaining, I rewatch all of them every so often, no complaints

@corvus2512 Год назад

I agree with basically all of this but I will say I have always loved one line from the prologue “slowly, the days turned sour and the watchful nights closed in” that just feels so true to the late third age.... watching from the battlements as shadows spread out from Mordor and evil things begin to stir.... it evokes much

@pj828 Год назад

Standing and applauding!! I actually made my own edit of the extended trilogy. The full runtime of the extended version is around 8 hours and 53 mins!! I cut it down to about 3 hours and 45 mins excluding the credits. I cut out More Than Half the movie!! And this video just gave me more ideas of other ways to tighten it up even further! Thanks for the trip down "we all know the Hobbit sucks" lane!! PS: I love Doug :D PPS: Ryan's right, Lindsay Ellis' videos on the Hobbit trilogy are Excellent!! Watch Them!!

@TheeIsaiahJames Год назад

These are my favorite videos on RU-vid 🙌🏽 please do more, Ryan!

@cobbsta88 Год назад

The theatrical release is just a master class in editing, the pacing of the fellowship in the theatrical cut is flawless. If you were to watch the extended version not knowing anything about the world, it unwitingly implies Bilbo to be the protagonist

@william7546 Год назад

The lord of rings was made with love, it was the biggest budget fanfilm trilogy ever, the hobbit was the milking of the success of its predecessor. Im sure they tried to make it more fleshed out to help and all, but at its base, the Hobbit was a simple tale of adventure and the quest for treasure, not the grand epic about war and the fate of the world they wanted it to be. You could probably take all three movies and patch it up to make it into a proper hobbit movie with all the whimsy it should contain

@pschroeter1 Год назад

LOTR worked because they had three long books to make three epic movies from. The Hobbit failed because they tried to turn ONE slightly shorter book into three epic movies. I remember watching the underground chase scene and thinking they don't need a thousand orcs for this, I guess they are doing it because they can. BTW: I've read The Hobbit several times, but never watched the last two parts of the movie trilogy. I did almost have tears in my eyes over how beautiful the Shire was at the beginning.

@daharasmom Год назад

Same here. Thorin's grandfather Killed the white Orc. As soon as i saw that, i was confused, then bored. Never saw the second two movies.

@johnnybhoff226 5 месяцев назад

Tbh I love the hobbit trilogy. Sure it has some issues but the story of ppl trying to find their way back home really speaks to me. And Martin freeman is so damn good. Honestly top 5 characters in lotr and the hobbit.

@lucasmartinez4248 Год назад

Amazing video, thank you for your work and analysis!

@jarredhurley9572 Год назад

I’ve never been able to adequately describe my loathing of the Hobbit movies, but you said it all!

@joshuahenderson3444 Год назад

I liked The Hobbit Trilogy i think they did really well the story is suppose to be a prequel to LOTR both the stories have great potential so i like em both

@purefoldnz3070 Год назад

the two films are good but the third is where they dropped the ball.

@joshuahenderson3444 Год назад

@@purefoldnz3070 ok i guess the main prob with the prequel trilogy is that it lacked balance between nostalgia and story building

@joshuahenderson3444 Год назад

@@purefoldnz3070 well idk what Disney has to do with the Hobbit but i see your point the sequels were trash

@purefoldnz3070 Год назад

@@joshuahenderson3444 sorry wrong trilogy haha

@jasonhagar8503 Год назад

My feeling has always been that the LOTR film trilogy broke ground by condensing three very large novels written by one of the greatest literary voices of modern times into three great movies while using mostly practical effects. What CGI was used appears top quality and the actors were performing at their best the whole way through. The story was stripped down from the novels into the primary action and plot to make the films fun and exciting while staying true to the basic ideas. The Hobbit on the other hand was written as a short story for children. There was never three movies worth of material there. So I could feel the injection of Hollywood mainstream action sequences and cliches meant to draw the story out so they could make 3X money at the box office that didn't add anything except poor quality CGI. It muddled up the story and intensity at times and generally made the movies forgettable and uninspiring.

@hugoapresname 5 месяцев назад

Incredible of you to name the different content of the source material. I understand (and liked😂) that they would reuse cgi from Legolas, Lotr warfare scenes and so on. It’s beyond amazing and unique Art work too in the Hobbit 3ology! But maybe the mistake was the same treatment, instead of some unique approach. But 5 Studios telling Mr. Peter Jackson what to do? If I know that now then it’s a wonder that Bilbo made it out of the hole in the ground at all! 😅

@lamedelam Год назад

Fun fact. Legolas was not even in The Hobbit’s book .😮

@davidmajors514 Год назад

In many ways I agree- especially the nostalgia and tie-ins to LOTR. The Physics free zones in the Goblin Caves and the Legolas rock jumping were horrendous. As was the atrocious escape scene with the barrels. Yet in many ways I still like the movies very much. Martin Freeman and the actor who payed Balin made the movies for me. One of my favorite scenes is when Bilbo explains why he came back to help the Dwarves. Just look at everyones expressions- especially Balin as he looks at Bilbo and tell me you were un-moved. Then at the end when they are discussing Thorin passing into legend. Whoah! Ian McKellan is as good as ever. Another great scene is when an invisible Bilbo has Sting at Gollums throat. I just loved the expression on Bilbo's face as he realizes he simply can not kill even as loathsome a creater as Gollum in cold blood. As Galadrial at her mirror and Aragorn II would do at Parth Galen 60 years later- Bilbo passed the test. He started his ownership of the ring with pity.

@frederf3227 Год назад

"Hey, this is the video game level part!"

@aerochicc Год назад

I agree with most of your assessment. I actually liked the first Hobbit movie because it still tried to capture the feel of the book. Ideally this should have been ONE movie, but at best (?) two. I totally hate the added / made up story elements.

@chaosthebaryonyx6344 Год назад

Yeah tbh the first hobbit was really good. And nothing too unrealistic apart from the fact that the dwarfs didn't fall off in the stone giant sequence and when they tumbled down the goblin mines the took the damage like it was nothing.

@georgebethanis3188 Год назад

Instead of one rushed movie you get more Lord of The Rings by having a trilogy, and you dont like it?

@aerochicc Год назад

It didn't have to be rushed. The Hobbit is NOT a trilogy. I would rather have ONE great movie over 2 more stuffed with things that weren't in the original.

@chaosthebaryonyx6344 Год назад

@@aerochicc yeah same.

@stevenwilson5556 Год назад

The Hobbit got a lot of grief I think because it was not up to the level of Lord of the Rings, but Jackson was not given nearly the same amount of time to perfect a script and to prepare for it as he was brought on mid-project as an afterthought because the original director was stinking up the project. Jackson did a credible enough job integrating the film with his original trilogy, and there were a whole lot of great innovations that went into The Hobbit that were absolutely fantastic, such as the scene with Gollum and Bilbo, and the scene with Smaug and Bilbo. I adore the final scene with Bilbo and the dying Thorin Oakenshield. No, it's not perfect. The Gravity defying Legolas on the falling bridge was absurd, and sure there are plenty of other problems, but the films are entertaining and watchable and feel like Middle Earth from the LotR trilogy which is an accomplishment for being brought on last-minute as an afterthought. Jackson did an amazing job with the time and tools he was provided. I can only sadly wonder what could have been done if he had been on the project from the start with a similar budget to the LotR trilogy. Amazon is absolutely proving what an absolute genius that Jackson was since they are burning money like it is going out of style on absolute unwatchable garbage.

@LILYandJOJO Год назад

I think the success of LOTR plays into everyone’s disappointment. The expectations were set so high after LOTR. They set a bar that was already difficult to live up to - but ultimately made impossible when the studio refused to let Jackson do his thing. Frankly, I’m actually impressed with how well they made The Hobbit considering those hurdles (rushed work, expanding a single short novel into three epic films, make a children’s book feel like LOTR, etc.) I even like some of the additions to the original story (particularly by explaining why Gandalf kept leaving the company in the book while preparing the storyline for Sauron.) I enjoyed the movies in their own right, just disappointed when comparing them to LOTR. Unfortunately, those hurdles made entirely by the studio did exist. Thus the saddest part about The Hobbit movies is the thought of “oh what could have been.”

@stevenwilson5556 Год назад

@@LILYandJOJO oh what could have been… obviously we have seen what could have been from Jackson's masterpiece LotR. At least we did not get Rings of Power

@LILYandJOJO Год назад

@@stevenwilson5556 Truer words, my friend. 100%

@alanguages Год назад

The Hobbit movie started with an aged Bilbo, and the entirety was done as an entire flashback. In other words you already know Bilbo succeeded in what he had to do. Peter Jackson also tried to fit in as many of the most known characters from the LOTR trilogy. I was happy to know Viggo Mortensen turned it down. Lord of the Rings you are on the journey with the characters.

@nathanielhardman2730 Год назад

Your conclusion starting at 25:15 makes this video worth it. What a bold, expensive lesson this studio taught us!

@anthonyg8680 Год назад

Spot freaking on!!!! This nailed everything I felt about “The Hobbit” trilogy even when I saw them new, and again when I just rewatched them, yet I didn’t know how to put into words. Very well done… for you, not WB! I hope against hope that at some future point someone goes back and remakes “The Hobbit” properly.

@jarrodthekidder1 Год назад

This was an incredible and objective breakdown of why one is worth Oscars and one, generally speaking, is hated by most fans. But I appreciated that you did this objectively and not just some fan bashing it relentlessly lol

@user-ks5cg5cd7m 8 месяцев назад

Your conclusion is brilliant!

@PTRMAN Год назад

I absolutely LOVE these breakdowns. This is the best part of Screen Crush, and something no one else does. For the most part, Ryan is spot on with these comments. Thank you!

@jasongallagher5464 Год назад

Bruh bruh bruh. You bow to no one. That’s one of my favorite if not my favorite movie scene of all time. 😭

@redmint4894 Год назад

Love both LOTR and The Hobbit. Thought both were incredibly well-made and incredibly entertaining.

@Arsenico13 Год назад

Very nice breakdown and explanation. I like it.

@zengamer21 Год назад

I loved the 3D/48fps version of this movie. There are dozens of us. Dozens!

@ALAPINO Год назад

I gave myself ample opportunity to lower my expectations for the Hobbit films. I didn't read the Hobbit. I thought it was fine for a studio-meddled budget hole. I enjoyed a bunch of moments in the trilogy and did my best to ignore the glaring faults. I'm getting far too old to get angry at creative works of fiction... I'll save that for the morning commute and people who litter.

@Thore__ Год назад

I love Videos like these that explain in detail why things are unlikeable, when I dislike something without knowing exactly why.

@mikochild2 Год назад

The animated hobbit clip you used is from my all time favorite Hobbit movie. I'm need to watch it this weekend.

@chasehedges6775 Год назад

The LOTR Peter Jackson films are awesome but I personally feel that The Hobbit movies are decent enough

@Calvin8419 Год назад

I thought I remember in the hobbit book Thorin actually did get dragon sickness so I don’t think they just put that in there to copy Aragorn being tempted by the ring.

@jennifershaw5232 Год назад

he does but he isn't as obsessed with the Arkenstone. Its the gold that sickens them.

@gianna526 Год назад

It's not an actual thing though, like they make it in the movie. He's not really sick in the book, he's just obsessed with gold. In the movie they make it seem like the gold did something to him and made him sick in the head, which didn't happen.

@jamesmurray_scot Год назад

Really enjoyed that, thank you!

@homeheartmindeducation7973 Год назад

I LOVE your work, and tend to agree with nearly everything you say, but the Magician’s Nephew is NOT terrible!!

@theepicrusins8779 Год назад

thank you. it is not horrible. it is good!

@user-ks5cg5cd7m 8 месяцев назад

I live every book in the series except the last one, and that is just because it ended the story.

@BryanGlosemeyer Год назад

I'm going to take a moment to be "That Guy" and say "well actually" in FOTR the Nazgul are shown riding out from Minas Morgul, not Dol Goldur, or whatever it was you said in the vid. All in all, great video though.

@Lord-Emperor-Vader Год назад

He said Barad-Dûr but they still left from Minas Morgul.

@ElricX Год назад

Good assessment. The Hobbit movies were definitely a cash grab. Stretching the story out to three movies was ridiculous! Btw I would have loved to see Guillermo del Toro's version of the Hobbit!

@aerochicc Год назад

For as much as I like him, I think Guillermo would have made the tale too dark.

@heathern8043 Год назад

@@aerochicc he wrote (I think at least heavily involved in creating) the tales of Arcadia animated tv shows (my fave is the first series: trollhunters) which are very adventurous, humorous and a good heroes tale story. so idk I think he could’ve done a good job with the hobbit

@fastertrackcreative Год назад

Your dog at the end is adorable btw!

@tanyam9853 Год назад

I love your analysis so much! When you were talking about the edited first act I was nodding so hard I literally knocked my headphones off. When the LOTR trilogy came out I thought I would watch anything that was set in Middle Earth, like just literally a day in life of a Hobbitton resident, Galadriel pruning trees, whatever. When the Hobbit came out, I realized that nope, there was a way to mess it up spectacularly and they’ve managed to do it.

@theinfomorphsguidetothenoo4817 Год назад

i gotta say, the magicians nephew is an awesome book if you read narnia in the proper order and it comes right before the last battle. read LWaW first, but magicians nephew is amazing when it comes after all the other adventures and right before the whole thing ends. like the machete order for star wars

@kelleyjogirl Год назад

Agree! They're best enjoyed in the order Lewis originally wrote them, not in the weird chronological order that was adopted for box sets sometime later (the 90s?)

@theepicrusins8779 Год назад

I think the magicians nephew is just different then all the other narnia books, which is why people don't like it. but I love it. it is my favorite narnia book, because it is so different.

@theinfomorphsguidetothenoo4817 Год назад

@@theepicrusins8779 it's my favorite too. I love creation myths and worlds between worlds

@nicksavage567 Год назад

This is a very nice detailed dissection of the issues with the films. At the end of the day though, as far as I am concerned the root problem is that The Hobbit is a silly, fun story written by Tolkein for children. He didn't even know at this point that Bilbo's ring was the One Ring. The only way to make a sensible adaptation of the book is to treat it in that spirit and make a single, short film with lots of songs and humour. In other words the book I read when I was about 9 years old and fell in love with (I didn't manage to read LOTR for about another 4 or 5 years).

@wenchinatrenchcoat8459 Год назад

This was an unexpected informative analysis. Thank you for that

@elizabethhurlbut1475 Год назад

Thank you for mentioning Rankin Bass's The Hobbit in this review. I still love that adaptation, songs and all. A shorter film that told its story in an 1hr and 30 minutes instead of almost 8 hours, appealing closer to the younger audience the book was written for.

@FerDelRio Год назад

This video essay is amazing, you hit it right in the head, I hated every Hobbit movie, I even slept in the last one and never saw them again. You expressed so well my feelings about it. Thanks!!

@mbryson2899 Год назад

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I had to keep my mouth firmly shut throughout. My better had warned me about them beforehand but family duty required me to watch along.

@bryanmatthews2370 Год назад

Everyone wants to attack fellowship, towers, and return, then the Hobbit comes out. Everyone wants to attack the Hobbit, then rings of power comes out. I for one love the LOTR trilogy AND the Hobbit.

@babansif Год назад

Nah, lotr was pretty appreciated right from the get go even if there was some who disliked them but they were few and far between.

@bryanmatthews2370 Год назад

🤷🏿‍♂️ when I was walking out of the theater when it first came out I remember hearing people complain about the lack of Tom Bombadil, the barrow whites, merry and Pippin just stumbling on Sam and Frodo, arwen saving Frodo, Frodo solving the riddle, it wasn't as attacked at the Hobbit. But it wasn't across the board tens from LOTR fans

@kristinrogersdotter5492 Год назад

@@bryanmatthews2370 I remember that. Walking out of ROTK, I heard SO MANY people complaining about how long and BORING it was..."it should have ended an hour ago...why did they waste so much time going back to Hobbiton and saying goodbye to Frodo" etc. There really was a lot of complaining about the LOTR trilogy at the time that maybe people have forgotten. There are always going to be readers who are disappointed; or head cannon that was missing or replaced. One of the most damning things I can say about The Hobbit trilogy is that I remember *almost nothing specific from it*

@Deltapwr13 Год назад

That closer with the post-modern art installation bit sold me the like for this video.

@loumoon7660 Год назад

This is my first time watching this channel. It was very well stated and very well done. I loved the whole blockbuster aesthetic and I think I’m here to stay. Mainly because of the dog though.

@thomholbrook7286 Год назад

The biggest problem for me was the move to making it more of an action ensemble piece. The book does have a big cast but Bilbo is the central character. And it's about him winning the day over and over by subtlety, not fights. The biggest moment they screw this up is with him saving the Dwarves from the Wood Elves. He spends forever sneaking around concocting his plan to sneak everyone out in barrels with no one the wiser. Instead we don't focus on Bilbo and the sneaky escape becomes the loudest, dumbest, video game CGI filled, river battle EVER crapped onto a movie screen. That entire segment is the opposite of everything the book was about. Right there I gave up on the movies.

@michellegiacalone1079 Год назад

This may sound silly, but you really should review the Rankin-Bass Hobbit film. It's surprisingly amazing.

@rh31n Год назад

From one Ryan to another, thank you for your service to the war of film.

@viditvia Год назад

woah! Well done Ryan.

@brendan7704 Год назад

I think Frodo was a great addition that tied the story together. The main issue with the Hobbit is the length and the fact it was rushed. There was no planning, it was rushed, and shot in a way that makes the CG and environment feel off. On top of that the forced perspective was impossible to shoot in 3D, which was pointless to do. You can’t really use the book comparisons as criticisms as most people are watching because of the previous movie not the book.

@lottietalkie3142 Год назад

Aside from all the problems you identified, the tonal shift was probably the worst for me. Especially in the 3rd movie. I just kept wondering whether I was supposed to laugh or cry, and how I could be expected to switch so quickly between one and the other... and I ended up doing neither.

@gsparkman Год назад

Well said and presented.

@Julzableful Год назад

Thank you for articulating this so well! Very much agree. Would love to see your edited version of the Hobbit

@apeman505 Год назад

Oh, man, I read the Hobbit in first grade, and to this day it remains my all-time favorite book EVER. Excellent analysis as always, Ryan! Oh, man, when the first movie came out I really didn't like it, except for a couple of goofy parts that actually felt like Tolkien's book. One of my coworkers actually was sad that she couldn't see it in theaters and I was like, "Here, watch the Rankin-Bass version, it's better." Oh man, the songs from that movie are so catchy.....

@meredithcarroll6209 Год назад

It took me about 8 tries to make it through The Hobbit (just the first one) because I kept getting bored/distracted/finding something that needed to be done around the house during the first 30-ish minutes of the movie. I only managed it by coming up with a drinking game where the players would do a shot every time there was more than 2 minutes of exposition over a scene or more than 2 panoramic shots of the same vista, only I realized very quickly that no one would survive the game without getting alcohol poisoning.

@jtfike Год назад

Maybe you just have a drinking problem?

@meredithcarroll6209 Год назад

@@jtfike I didn't say I actually attempted the drinking game, since I'm on medication that prevents me from drinking completely, I just came up with it as the only possible way anyone could get through the movie. But thanks for trying to defend this dreck.

@bonzmgw Год назад

Bravo 👏 , Amazing assessment. Spot on 💯

@JennyMcD Год назад

Thank you for putting this out into the universe! A perfect articulation of what my sister and I have been saying for years!

@insaynt9924 Год назад

One of my biggest problems with the Hobbit movies was actually Bilbo. Perhaps not the way he was portrayed but the way that he was written. Essentially in the book once he decides to take on the adventure, he more or less already has an idea of what he's getting himself into. Whenever he faces his own trials, he's generally very calm and intelligent about how he proceeds, partly to insure his own best odds of survival, but also because of his determination to go through with completing the quest. Unfortunately that's not what we get from his character in the movies. He kind of just comes off as a blubbering pansy, which I'm sure was for the sake of being relatable but unfortunately it took a lot away from his character. And to be fair, Frodo's character was actually changed quite a bit from the books as well, and probably for similar reasons. In the movies they make him seem more innocent and surprised by everything than he actually is. In the book, it was several months after their combined birthday, in which he inherited the estate, before he actually sets off. And by that point he had already been convening with Gandalf regarding how they were going to proceed. Not only that but he actually puts on the ring a number of times before completely leaving the Shire, and is warned multiple times about it. In some ways they took his more mischievous moments and put them into Merry and Pippin for the sake of having it more as comedic relief. In fact ever since I started reading the books, which to be fair was because I saw the movies first, I can't help but notice many differences between all of them. I think it's a disservice to necessarily say that the main trilogy was any more accurate, at least by a significant enough margin to matter. Like if you want to get picky the elf city of Lothlorien should look more like the ewok city in the original trilogy of Star Wars. And speaking of the elves, they weren't just completely stoic and rigid in the books. The whole point is that they were very lively cheerful people. But instead throughout the movies that energy has almost been exclusively shifted over toward the hobbits. In short, they are all good movies but none of them are without any flaws. If we're going to nitpick on one we should do that evenly, but also not to the point of taking the joy away from it. And yes I do give credit to the movies for giving me interest in reading the books. I know that might make me a heretic to some people, seeing one before reading the other, but at least the movies served their purpose, in regaining interest.

@barkley8285 Год назад

bilbo was the best part , wdym? the problem with book readers is they always find the most random unimportant thing to complain about. All 3 LOTR movies are among the best movies ever made, but youll find some tolkien fanboys complain about stupid shit like "pelenor fields sucked! movie aragorn makes no sense ! gimli is a joke! no hobbit scourge!!." Book fans need to realize shit has to be cut and things changed to fit a different audience and medium. All adaptions are like this - harry potter, game of thrones, etc.

@FailedMaster Год назад

Thing is, the movies are an adaptation. They are based on the books. That means, they can change whatever they want, as long as they work for themselves and have a good and coherent story. Sure, you might piss of some fans of the source material, but the movie can still be good. LotR does this really well in my opinion. They changed a lot of things, but are still an awesome series of movies. Although I did enjoy The Hobbit it has a lot of moments where it falls short. And that has nothing to do with changing the source material, but having flaws in it's own story it tries to tell.

@annakareninacamara6580 Год назад

@@FailedMaster Yeah. For example, tho I loved Tom Bombadil I can see why he wasnt in the LOTR movies, since they were already too long for commercial/screen time reasons. This is completely different from just creating a love story out of the blue between an elf and a dwarf, with no benefit to the plot, and even involving another character that shouldn't even be there in the first place!

@AdamLProductions Год назад

@@barkley8285 No, things did not need to be changed to fit a different audience and medium. LOTR had a massive fanbase before the movies. The changes made would not help new audiences understand the world any better than had they stuck strictly to the lore.

@tnxshade3194 Год назад

Bro wrote an essay 💀

@lesliethrasher3755 Год назад

My biggest problem with the trilogy was the way the dwarves were portrayed. It's been a VERY long time since I reread the book (for the umpteenth time) but I do recall: Bombur was extremely fat....pretty sure the book never once said he used his beard as a scarf; Thorin was noble and reserved with a blue cloak sporting a silver tassle...the only outward suggestion of his rank or nobility. Each had a description of cloak color and descriptions of their noses of all things. That of course was a great help later in Mirkwood when Bilbo recognizes his companions mostly by nose shape. At any rate it was the cartoonishness of the dwarves themselves that I found repulsive. Ori, Nori and Thorin having an almost sane human look while the rest seemed like escapees from some asylum with Bombur topping the insanity cake. In contrast ALL the dwarves we meet in LOTR including the dead in Moria were dressed much less... garishly. I get that Thorin's people were nomads but that doesn't mean they had to be made to look like gypsies with colorful scarves and such. Maybe they were the only things that they had left from their families but I'm fairly certain that dwarf worked metal such as all the trinkets they had in their beards would have still fetched enough gold to set themselves up fairly decently. What I'm saying is that for nomads they sure had a lot of trinkets still. (Especially Bombur) Maybe I was just used to how the dwarves in LOTR presented themselves or maybe it was the ridiculously vast differences in dress and temperament between members of the same clan (and many of the same family) that put me off. Don't get me wrong....after I got past that, I rather enjoyed the movies. I even enjoyed the speculation on what Gandalf was up to when he disappeared all those times. I always wondered what he'd been up to and for me it was nice to see. It was, however a departure from the story told by Bilbo and Gandalf was never likely to have told Bilbo any of what he'd done while away from their party as secretive and mysterious as he liked to appear.

@Tms0211 Год назад

Originally, the Hobbit was a story to read to children at night that’s why it was more simpler and light hearted. Tolkien expanded the world when he wrote LOTR into a more serious novel.