Optics Overview for Western Mountain Hunting 

Amen, twin brother from another mother. I am not that far behind you in age. I also have not been on a guided mountain hunt or even an outfitter hunt, mostly because of economics. I spend my money on gear and hunt on public land. And all of his points make sense from both the mountain hunting and the close range forest hunting that I do. My max range of target where I am at is 225 yards, most of it is 100 yards or less because of dense, as in really thick, forest and bushes. Public lands that are wildlife management areas, which means they are not cultivated or groomed. I have the Vortex Diamondback 12x50 binocs and I love those. I am fairly steady and I will also do like he does, rest them on my trigger stik tipod. I have the y piece and I also have a clamp piece. The trigger stik comes with a base with a standard post. Any device such as camera, phone holder, or scope that can thread on there willl work. Learn to pack what you want. As for optics, I have Vortex riflescopes and Arken. I like each of them for different reasons. I like his advice on rifles and the accuracy needed for mountain hunting. You need a light rifle that can shoot 1 to 2 MOA. This truly is different than the 18 pound precision rifles guys are building to hit the X at 800 yards plus. Hunting is about placing enough energy and size in a zone, and that is different but it focuses, pun intended, on the efforts you need. I follow the Jeff Cooper advice, don't shoot unsupported. But there could always be a time on a stalk where you do not have time to set up all the gear and look pretty. Bring to the shoulder, estimate holds, squeeze the trigger. So, a few times around the house, distance doesn't matter, I walk around a bit, as if hiking. Then bring up my rifle (not loaded, mag out, ammo in another room) and squeeze on targets. My rifle, which is measured digitally by others for me at .516 MOA (rounded down) now has some swing because of my breathing. So, the object is to let the circle become smaller and squeeze at the right moment. Because my breathing has now caused that .516 MOA rifle to shoot 2 MOA. That also means that my off-hand shots should be limited to 200 yards or less on a whitetail deer with an 8 inch pie plate. The long distance advice is still great. In my state, in the western part of it, there is a draw to win a compartment hunt for mule deer and the hunt guide warns of freezing conditions, rough country camping, and shots that average 200 yards or more. Turns out that you cannot just catch mule deer by putting salt on his tail.

Crazy man - I actually videoed a “short range glassing” video today and I talked about this tip. I had another comment awhile back suggesting the same. Tried it out, works great! Thanks

Hey Richard, really appreciate the comment. Would love to get out for a hunt with you, but this Fall I’m getting pulled back into guiding a few hunts and have a couple personal hunts… my wife would kill me if I put another one on the calendar! Haha

For sure! Thanks for subscribing

You bet!

@@CliffGray i absolutely love your videos very informative start to the point no bs!

Appreciate the feedback and glad the videos are helpful. After hunting season, I'll get back at it and add some more!

Glad the videos are helpful! thanks

I have actually tried this, and didn't like it. The trigger sticks have a little "bounce" to them... this is nice when moving around with a rifle but not great for systematically glassing off a tripod setup. Having said that, just like a walking stick or anything else I might have with me, I will just set my binos on tops of trigger sticks for a quick glassing session. Any support is better than no support. Hope that helps.

I have compared the two briefly and the NL Pure are better. For me personally, the ergonomics alone probably make it a worthy change. I just haven't gotten the time to swap them out yet!

Oh, and use Arca Swiss heads/mounts liberally! Moving from glassing support/video taking to shooting support in seconds. I have that across my entire system.

good stuff! I tried the BTX and it wasn't for me. Had a loaner set a couple seasons back - just couldn't find where they made sense for me. If I was more vehicle based, they would have been a great option.

I don't think there is much difference honestly. There are a lot of 15x binoculars on the market, so you have more options at that magnification for tripod binos. If you are asking if it matters what the low end of your magnification range on spotters is (some are 15 or 18, or 25)... it really doesn't. The majority of your use of spotters is going to be in the 30-40x range. hope that helps.

@@CliffGray Yea mostly referring to the binos on a tripod. I'm looking less for trophy quality and more for animal presence. Thanks for the input.

The highend Vortex models are a great value. Hard to say on spotter/big binos… depends on how/what you hunt. I’ll get a video out on that question specifically 👍

I haven't been able to try them out yet. In general, I can't hand hold 12x magnification binos due to the movement, so I wouldn't be able to replace a 10x chest binocular with them.

I do own a pair of the NLs in 12x42 with the forehead rest. My take on them would be that the large field of view and forehead rest combine to produce an image that is about as stable as an average 10x42. They have great clarity and light transmission, so they are surprisingly good at resolving detail especially once you put them on a tripod, but they still have 20% less magnification than a 15x, so overall it’s still a compromise. To me it’s worth it when the terrain is rough and/or there are a lot of miles to be covered.

I don't recall if I mention it in this video, but I can't handhold anything about a 10 - or I actually get motion sick. I feel like I am more sensitive to it than many folks, as I do know people that hand hold 12s without issue. Sounds like you are in that boat. Also agreed on carrying 3 optics - truth is that I am usually trading off spotter vs 15s based on type of hunt. I do use my 8s on a tripod - particularly in low light conditions or if I want to glass into a meadow after shooting time via moonlight. thanks for the comment

I'm actually going to be putting out a bino review video over next few months. I'll cover the gun/bear topics in that also.

Hey William - I have tried the Pure 12x50s. I have to admit that it is a very close call but for a new buyer - I would recommend the 12x Pures. phenomenal binos, ergonomic, smaller, weigh less, similar effectiveness.

Hey Shane, if you are primarily “meat hunting” (not dead set on X size animal) get some big binos (12-15s) and a decent tripod. That will get you into more game, guaranteed, if you spend some time practicing. Look at the brands like Maven/Vortex. They have some great stuff for the $. Lots of competition in optics has driven up quality across the board. Good luck Shane! 👍

Hi Ben, I don't have any experience with the Zeiss 15s. However, just like the other high-end glass producers I'm sure they are great. Where to spend the money varies a lot of the type of hunting you are doing. However, it's hard to argue that the raw production from 15s, in terms of glassing up of hard-to-find game animals, is going to be matched by your other optics. On the other side of things, functionally you can do everything you can with 15s, with a good spotter. It's just not quite as comfortable...

Even on mule deer hunts?

if buying used - the high end brands are nice because they will usually fix any internal issues there might be. Other than that, I think used is a great way to go. Even stuff with scratched lenses that you can get for cheap - a lot of the times you can't even tell they have a scratch when you are actually glassing. Not ideal, but a great way to get some good stuff.

Take a look at the new image stabilization Binos coming out before you buy anything. I’ll do a video on them sometime this Fall. Pretty cool

@@CliffGray right on man thanks for the tip.

Who all is planing on coming out with them. I see there's a cannon and a sign one on the market. But never used there binos?

Jack, I have used them. Recently and a long time ago while billfishing. They have been around on those boats for years. I also have a new set of Sigs for testing this Fall. The past ones I used were fairly low quality glass. So there was this tradeoff between poor glass vs the stabilization. Also, and this is probably unique to me or just a subset of folks, they make me motion sick after long glassing sessions. I'm guessing that has to do with constant strain from the low optical quality. I have heard that the new Sigs avoid a lot of the issues I describe. If that's the case... you may see a video in the future where I tell everyone to throw away their $300 tripods! hahaha. I love the idea of them... just haven't nailed it for me yet.

Just depends on what kind of hunting, in terms of how much value there is from expensive glass for you. In the $1k range, your best value is probably Vortex’s higher end models 👍

Was in the flattops last week and saw a lot and learned Im really not in shape Also I had a lot of heat waves I know asummer issce but is high end glass better with it?

thanks man! glad you find the stuff helpful

I have used one. When they just came out, I was given one to check out for about a week. Really enjoyable to use, but the BTX didn't fit into my styles of hunting. They don't replace 15x binos for me, because they are too heavy. They don't replace my spotter as they are fixed magnification. For someone that is more vehicle based, I think they are a great option.

Great info. I’ve got the el range 10x was thinking the btx plus the 85 or 95 might be the quiver killer. I’m big so weight is not much of an issue, I am with you on the fixed magnification. Really enjoyed your video. Subscribed.

ha!

Hey Nolan, they are all still on the channel. A bunch of the thumbnails were updated.. so it might look a bit different in the listing now.

@@CliffGray I don't see it... there was one were you were sitting on the floor talking optics/tripods

I don't know how guys don't get motion sick doing that... I've tried! haha

@@CliffGray I know it's crazy they gotta run around with a tri pod!