Top 3 Reasons Elk and Mule Deer Hunters Miss 

Cliff, I’m your neighbor down in GJ, been an Elk hunter all my life and I’m at least 20 years older than you. I was raised in a hunting family and have had success. I wanted to endorse what you are doing and saying. Everybody, this guy is the real deal.

I agree with your ethical shot distance estimates. I'm on a site where people are routinely bragging about killing animals at 800-1000 yards, what they don't mention is how many they missed or wounded.

that reticle pattern is gold. I never heard that before and I remember when I first started hunting, I would try to keep my reticle perfectly still and it was impossible for me. I wish I would have heard this years ago.

Thanks for all of your tips and help. I got my first elk this weekend in the Flat Tops. I ended up using my 7mm08 because I was more familiar with it planning not to shoot more than 275 yards instead of taking larger calibers I could have borrowed but was less familiar with. Bull walked out at 260 yards. Double lung pass through dropped the bull then he got up and died 20 yards in the woods. After seeing the bullet performance, I would be confident at 350 yards with that rifle and bullet now.

Really appreciate all these videos you do Cliff!

Great vid Cliff. This is up there with some of the most important knowledge hunters can gather.

Perfect timing! I was just watching your earlier video on stalking techniques and got another video to watch now! I appreciate all your content and advice Cliff! Hoping to get that first elk this year in WA.

Great, great video! I had an uncle who use to say, “Beware of the man with one gun for he surely knows how to use it.” While he had a 300 Weatherby, a 7MM Rem Mag and a 280 Remington he used the 7MM Rem Mag 70% of the time and boy could he shoot it. Of course, he was a proficient shot with all of them.

Excellent advice. Practice! Practice! Practice in expected hunting conditions, it builds confidence. Objective goals to obtain before the the trigger break. Focus on the objective of a clean, legal kill and "buck fever" will be minimized. I only have 45 years of experience hunting and am still learning.

Thanks for all the good info...I'm sure it's going to help me

Just bought this year tika t3x.....all my shooting is in the mountains. First year working on shooting from distance, as I have always been a bow hunter. Can shoot 1 inch groups at just past 200 yards using my in the field use rest. I anticipate being able to hit within a kill zone at 300 this season. I have made that my limit until I have more opportunity to reach out further......thanks for all your videos, and willingness to share....it has excellerated my success on my new adventure of rifle hunting. I love when i can listen to what someone has to teach me, then apply it in real life citation and see the positive result. What I am learning from you will be past down to my four boys, and they will always say that their dad was an amazing hunter, and knew all the tricks.....when I die ill make sure to confess and my headstone will read... IT WAS CLIFF GRAY

Amazing info sure to help me! Never heard of any of this before

Morning Cliff: just want to zip a quick thank you for all the great insights on your channel…I have been taking in everything you post all summer in preparation for my 1st ever Western hunt. Was fortunate to work with an outstanding guide and outfitter in western Wyoming and knocked down an awesome 315” 6x6….certainly not the biggest on the mountain, but for an old Pa whitetail hunter, this has been an awesome hunt…most of the prep work for cardio, pack set up, and shooting tips in the mountains I attribute to you sir. Thanks again and keep up the great content

In boot camp, using peep sights on the A2, they taught us to use the figure 8 with the shoulder sling strapped tight to our bicep. That worked very well for me. Focus on the front sight tip, while letting the target go blurry. Place the clear front sight tip center mass of the blurred target and slowly squeeze the trigger. It worked very well for me out to 500 meters.

Hey Cliff. I have transitioned over the past year from practicing at the range to in the field. I have forced myself to shoot in the uneven terrain and at angles. I even do this now when I’m doing load testing for my reloads. My goal when I started this was to become more comfortable and consistent when shooting in real life positions. My accuracy goal was to stay within 1.5 MOA out to 500 yards. I have been able to do that successfully and have had a few challenges with downhill shots at longer distances, but I just practiced more and more until I was sufficient. I have also learned a lot more about reading and shooting in wind. The biggest thing I have taken away from this is that you won’t be proficient in making the most of your opportunities while hunting if you don’t get out and practice in the same situations. With that also to replicate hunting situations where your heart rate is up and you’re shaky, I used the terrain to run up or down, do 10 jumping jacks and 10 push ups or up downs, then get on the gun and shoot my group using my pre shot execution steps. Thank you for all the great information you give.

i just installed a bubble level onto my scope and it made such a huge difference. i’m able to look through my scope at my objective with both eyes open and see both the level and the target. it was also very eye opening to how much that crosshair moves off target with even slight cant adjustments. thanx cliff! love your videos man

Great tips. I think I've had all of these issues in my hunting life. From some one yelling at me to shoot and just pulling the trigger to shut them up when I was just starting out. To be over confident in my ability with buck fever and the jitters.

AWESOME HOT TIPS" THANKS from Idaho!

Quality content again, Cliff. I'm actually going to sight in my rifle later today so I will take these tips out to the field

Such good tips.

Great practical advice

Ive shot a long time and never heard of putting anything on the stock for an anchor. Its such a brilliant idea that I plan on implementing in my trade craft. I use it in archery with a nose button and it improved my shooting dramatically. Thanks Cliff.

Great video man!

Im a ga boy and only shot 175 yrds from a tripod stand 16' off the ground. Your channel motivated me info planning and actually practicing my long distance shooting, camping out, hiking with a heavy pack, etc Luckily family owns 178 acres so i can at least camp out and stalk whitetail for now. 😂 Maybe i can do the same on public north ga mountain land.

If you think you are good to 800 yards like lots of western hunters think... go put an 8 inch round target out at 800ish in wild terrain and lay prone in a random spot... good luck

Very well said.

Excellent advice and overview. As someone who’s planning on going to Wyoming for a combination mule deer 🦌 and pronghorn rifle hunt this October as my first western big game hunting trip where I actually have a tag 🏷️ or two, this is a helpful reminder. I definitely need to do many dry fire scenarios to replicate field conditions. I will definitely consider these and integrate them in my preseason practice. I like that you have an inexpensive yet good shooting rifle in the Ruger American Predator.

Thank you

I enjoy the videos which highlight your manufacturing capabilities. As a suggestion, how about explaining your quality processes/procedures for us folks. Before folks drop the $$$ for a knife, they need to understand the depth of the employee's commitment in producing a quality product. Just a suggestion from an old manufacturing guy.

Have done your field test with a 7 mm mag with Barnes TTSX at 350 yards on a bipod and can maintain about a 7"group. My last three elk have been about that range, all double lung shots.

I got scope cut shooting at a bull across a drainage while in a 'kinked' position. I'll never again shoot kinked. It's important to have the butt stock perpendicular to a substantive portion of body mass to properly absorb the recoil and maintain eye relief. Great tip on having a knob where your cheek weld gets to the same spot every shot! I've never seen that tip before, but it's brilliant. Thank you!

Just checking in after day 1 of co rifle season 1. Dead elk at 7:00 - 470 yds. Stressed for two minutes getting the correct settled rest. I was freakin out as i could not get it settled. I finally backed up 10 yds to a downward mound- threw pack down and reset my ballistics input. 470- 6 by down!!!!

Cliff, another excellent presentation on hunting topics. As an Outfitter and Guide I am sure you have seen it all as far as competent rifle marksmanship, the good and the ugly.. In this video you mention you have seen your clients miss and wound animals on your hunts and you commented on ethical shooting distances most riflemen should limit themselves to….. I wonder if most hunters realize that approximately 15 to 30 % of deer and elk are lost to wounding during the big game season. So, for every 100 deer or elk taken by hunters another 15 to 30 animals are unrecovered in the wild…. This information comes from the Montana Fish and Game study conducted by Craig Jourdonnais who was a Montana Warden and Wildlife Researcher for 33 years with the Department… My point here is we are perhaps taking this long range hunting to an extreme that very few hunters have the capability of doing, thus endangering our passion of field sports. When I now go into a gun shop I see most of the rifles and scopes for sale are emphasizing long range shooting. Very few people purchasing these setups are going to be competent shooting much past 400 yards with these rifles….. It is different sitting on a concrete bench shooting 700 to 800 yards, let alone trying to do it on the side of a mountain with the wind blowing, rain and snow, trigger fever, lack of physical fitness, altitude sickness and what ever else comes along with you in the mountains……. Could you perhaps expound more on this topic because you have the experience many do not. I think people would listen to you……..

Excellent 👍🙌

So this is my way of thinking. I shoot probably more than 70 percent of most hunters , and I do it out in the field. I find that my heart beat is , to me , quite heavy. Meaning that it moves my point of aim off the objective. So I use that as my "trigger" . So , yes I shoot when I feel it is a good time to shoot, anticipating the break point of the trigger. On game I cannot say with all honesty that I am aware of that point. "When it feels right " works for me. Great informative vids . thanks for all your work and help. cheers. B.

Love your channel. Helping people out with awesome info! Here are a few tips that really help me that hopefully help others: Face alignment behind scope: Find where your eye relief should be by shining a flashlight into the object lens with your hand moving back from the eyepiece. It will act like a magnifying glass (when you were burning things as a kid). When you find where it becomes a dot, I put a piece of athletic tape on my stock (how you use shoe glue) Also, make sure your cheek weld is correct and natural vertically- don’t strain to see crosshairs - get a pad or riser if needed Scope cant - someone already mentioned it but put a cheap bubble level on your scope to ensure crosshairs are truly vertical! If you don’t, your dialing/hold overs are worthless.. align your RETICLE on a horizontal object (I use an auto laser level) and put gun in a gun vise - once level, then mount bubble level. Don’t just put a level on your turrets (most of them aren’t truly lined up with reticle) Scope - contrary to the hunting marketing complex, too much power is hindering you and is bad for hunting. Now, I’m not talking 1000yd F class competitions, etc. where it’s needed, but for hunting... I was very guilty early on of thinking more magnifying power = more precise/accurate.. not necessarily true in the field. Any wobble becomes exacerbated under high magnification, animals walking take much more repositioning the sight picture (what would be a little adjustment at 6x feels huge at 30x because the animal walked out of your sight picture), all this leads to being way less confident in your shot. I now practice shooting out to 800yds w/ a 3x9 and with a fixed 10x (yes mostly from prone and I do have good eyes if we’re being honest) but still.. for 400yd shots, one does not need 42x. Some will disagree and that’s fine! Scope tracking Get a scope that can TRACK reliably. If your crosshairs are not pointing at where they’re supposed to be, your looking at a false image. Your crosshair hold can be perfect but you can be off. Relax muscles - (if you have time) get in your shooting position, hold where you think the shot should be, close your eyes, breath in and breath out (holding breath after out) and open eyes. Is the reticle where it should be? If not, reposition and repeat, otherwise you were “muscling your gun” which leads to poor marksmanship Buck Fever - (if you have time) a trick that calms me down (I’m excitable) and has helped others, is setting up the shot, hold where you should, and pull the trigger on an empty chamber.. weirdly enough it mentally destress you/prepares you for the shot. Takes away some anxiety if you will. Now load one up and let her rip. Hopefully some of this info helps others out and continue the amazing work!

Very much agree - overconfidence is a bigger problem than lack of skill. Knowing & staying within our limits is critical. I’ll use the content of this video in my next hunter safety class. Good stuff. Thank you.

Hi Cliff great video as always and I am learning a ton! On the topic of shooting skills I think a great video would be how to create the dope chart that’s taped to the stock. Keep up the great content!

Natural point of aim! Shift body and rest to avoid muscle fatigue and stress.

Excellent advice and I live by that and it is nice to see it taught elsewhere. I use Goda Grip cheek pads. They cushion and anchor my cheek. These slick plastic stocks slide too easily. Also, I follow the advice of Jeff Cooper in "Art of the Rifle." Always shoot from a support. Don't rely on off hand. I will still do an off hand dry fire, just in case, hunting on public land. And yes, there is a wavering. So, aim small, miss small. There will be movement, simply keep that movement small and fire with timing. As I have learned and is shown here, even with a rest, there is movement. The only time you will not have movement is a gun in a vise with no one near it, which is not practical for hunting. How many times have I seen someone using a lead sled to sight in a hunting rifle? You should always sight in rifles with your shoulder for recoil. Because you are likely not to have a shooting situation on the hunt where you can bring out a weighted table with a vise bolted to it. Dry fire around the house? I do that every other day. Sometimes, I will peek around a door frame and use it like a tree trunk to lean my left arm against, which holds the forend of the rifle. Learn to look, get a small pattern and break a shot, fairly quick. The longer you wait, the more movement you get. Or, carrying my tripod. Either stand it up or get the legs out, set up, take a shot. Also, the respiratory pause. So many people think it is at the end of an exhalation and introduce tension trying to hold that. Instead, I prefer to wait for the momentary calmness. That may or may not be at either end of the breathing cycle, which I have found to be unimportant. What is important is that it is a pause in movement, regardless. Bang!

I find that if I do a few dry fires I will know if I can make a out of position shot. It also helps me calm down.

I’m a sideways figure 8 guy. It was the only way I could correct target panic pre Lasik surgery. I remember before Lasik, having to site in my bows and rifles so that the reticle or pin was just to the right of the actual target, because the pin or reticle would be a blurry blob completely obscuring my target. It was frustrating and glasses didn’t alleviate the issue. I never took a shot over 100yds (rifle) and 30yds (bow), because I knew I had to get closer or just pass up the opportunity. As far as being scoped I pay attention to length of pull (13.5”) and I like a beaver tail stock. I usually have a ball cap on my head when shooting. I put the ball cap to the scope and then set my cheek on the cheek weld every time for consistent site picture. I practice and hunt with the same ball cap on and bringing the rifle up to meet my cheek. I also practice the 4 fundamentals of shooting that I was taught in the army. Cliff a request for a video, I understand you are very busy. Maybe after the season if you have time could you do some instructional vids on how to put in for elk points or go over the dates and deadlines for a couple western states. Or even recommend a hunting app site that you and your clients use like “hunting fool” so more folks can start accumulating points towards great hunting opportunities in western states. And another video idea is, for beginner or the longtime unsuccessful hunter to hire a guide to show them the ropes and how to be successful and potentially save years of tag soup. Please and thanks in advance. Happy hunting.

I make small circles with the scope reticle, smaller animal, smaller circles. Either that or I'm shooting them on the run with a. 30-30, which is more like leading a duck or pheasant

Love your knowledge and expertise. Would like you to, at some point, discuss…over magnification by hunters. As a guide, I observe many hunters missing an opportunity (can’t find the elk /deer in the scope), due to high magnification. Thanks.

I dry fire practice prior to the season and even during when I can't make it to the range, it does seem to make a big difference when it actually comes down to the shot. I have missed shots because I had a bad rest most of the time when I get set up good I don't miss.

My buddy bought a 300 prc thinking he could shoot an elk at 600 when in reality he can't keep a 3 inch group at 100. I believe he's better off with a 30-06 because his max effective range should be under 300. The 300 has him flinching due to recoil. Tried to get him to practice wierd shooting positions but don't think he is listening. Good luck. Great advice

Alot of great advice given, with the influx of long-range hype in the current marketing world, I believe we are doing an injustice to real expectations of shooting ability out in the field. Just because you have this $3500-10,000 setup does not mean you can shoot accurately at the distances you mentioned with out real time at the range.

If shooting at distance, I like to be able to set up and dry fire on the animal until my cross hairs hold true. Once I feel confident in me, I let it go. But I also, prior to the hunt, am all ready confident in my equipment at that distance AND current environment conditions.

I dont use paper .I use clay pigeons in the mountains up hill down hill across the canyon. I also believe in practicing out at 1 again the distance I would actually shoot at game. I practice in the same conditions I hunt in and even in my hunting areas where I hunt from.

My thoughts are, if my rifle is 1 MOA at the range, when I get an animal in the optic it turns into a 2 MOA, that said I try to practice out to 600yd and set a limit out hunting at 350yd. Also I use a bipod, shooting sticks and different “terrain objects” (fence post, tree, rocks, ect) also trying different positions, crouching, kneeling, leaning to the side.

Instead of the infinite pattern which feels and looks force always (w) which is if you cut the infinite pattern before the shoot always felt natural

One thing that prevents scope bites is to stay square with the gun. Bend at the waist. Arms shoulders and head should always be rigid and stay square with the gun like a standard off hand shot. If you need to shoot up and down bend at the waist. Left and right bend at the waist. This is the one thing that brides between archery and rifle shooting. Even if crazy out of position shooting occurs try your best to keep the upper body square with the gun.

My version of practice in real world conditions is predator hunting which I do year around in my off time. I know with a lightweight rifle I can hit a grey fox 90% of the time at 300 yards and coyotes out to about 450. Deer I would feel very confident out to 500. But ranges past that have severe consequences for any miss calculation in wind, angle, exact range becomes very important for drop, correolis starts to play a role, and a host of other issues. More hunters need to start predator hunting to earn thier deer, it's great practice for deer season and helps more fawns and calves grow into shooters. Just my 2 cents.

Here's what I noticed with most hunters. They don't practice enough with the rifle they will go hunt with. Sure they bring it out when hunting season starts, but after hunting season. They just don't practice with it.

This could be my first ever RU-vid comment. But when you were talking about getting scoped, and then showed your rifle with the goo gob you put on it, I had to wonder, as I often have, "why on earth do shooters mount their scopes so very far back"? To me its obvious why someone is getting scoped. My hunting scopes are mounted so the eye piece is almost flush with the back of the trigger guard and, many experienced older shooters mount them that way too, and over the years I've found this to have more marksmanship benefits than just the lack of 'scope eye'.

Any suggestions on getting bull elk to come to you in the PNW during November? Thanks . Love the content.

I don't shoot much past 300. Cause I have a 6" pattern that far in the mountain shooting prone with bipod. At 400 I have a 2 foot group so it goes bad fast. 250yd MAX with any other form of rest in any position no matter what! Closing the distance from 500 down to 250 is almost always possible.

12:34 I would be surprised if even 1% of mountain hunters have shot on paper in real world conditions at multiple distances and angles

This is off subject Cliff, What brand wrist watch do you use?

I'd say start at least a 3 to 4 inch group starting at 200 yds and working up to 300.

Hey Cliff, this is great advice. My question as an "observer" in this scenario is how do address a young hunter that is filled with nerves and may delay long enough to let an animal pass when for many of us, would be ample time to get a clean shot. It is hard not to micro-manage my son in these scenarios but I want him to make the shot on his terms. ADVICE?

I hammered an elk at 300 yards off hand, with a 7mm Rem mag, using the figure 8 method, but I felt confident on doing that.

"Premature trigger pull" -This has hindered me. I now just think about baseball, and that seems to help.

What is the chart you have taped to your rifle stock?

2 am, heading out soon, sucking down coffee. Two thoughts or comments. 1. Seems obvious, but train as you fight. I can say from experience, in the heat of the moment, your going to do what you already hardwired into your brain. For whatever reason, my brain is hardwired to go right into a hasty sling. If I have something at around 100ish yards or less, i go right to it, without even thinking about it. Maybe a training scar, not sure yet. 2. Debatable, but from what I was taught from an advanced rifle course, don't wrap your thumb around the stock, assuming your shooting a traditional rifle stock. Wrapping your thumb effects your trigger pull. It feels awkward at first, but try keeping your thumb and index finger on the same side of the stock, and see what that does for you. In my case, this too has also been hardwired, but I get a much better trigger pull.

How often does one practice...? I know I sure as sht don't do enough... last three years, I've shot 3 bull moose...ONLY 1 bullet fired for each animal.... I know my rifle, I have confidence in my shooting experience... AQUIRING target quickly...and boom...take the shot... good luck to all

I’m definitely expecting less than 2MOA out to 700 yards. Of course that depends on wind. If it is gusting hard and dropping out then no, if it’s steady or very light then for sure. Although I am lugging a rifle that’s just under 16 pounds.

People need to know at what range their ft-lbs of energy drops below minimum for elk (1500) and deer (1000) to be ethical. That aside most hunting bullets need a min 1600-1700fps at the target for the bullet to perform as designed. Anything less and a wounded animal runs off.

What you are teaching about the pattern is how you shoot off the fan tail of a boat. Has a corkscrew pattern and it works. Rock shooting if allowed is good as well as clean out Tide and Armor Hammer Detergent bottle full of water. The are easier to set up in real situation vs paper. I have also used a tire with wood are cardboard screwed to up with a bullseye. Get a stock that fits you with your hunting gear on. I usually have to shorten mine by 1/4 to 3/8”. You should never have to crawl or ouch back on a stock. Also, turn the power down.

The more I shoot the less I take long shots on game...

Cliff rules

Hey Cliffhanger wanna go hunting!?

People shoot too far away, think their ability to hit stuff at the shooting range will translate to the shooting range when it doesnt and a lot of people get such bad buck fever they couldnt hold steady on the mountain let alone the vitals of an animal and they jerk the crud out of the trigger.

I’ll tell ya why everyone misses…Because everyone thinks their a professional marksman, and they can shoot at crazy long distances. Most hunters have NO BUSINESS shooting past 300 yards!!

Since archery hunters routinely take animals at less than 50 yds, there is no excuse for a rifle hunter to fail to stalk a shoot to 200 yds or less, other than laziness.

Missing 35-50% of shots? I'm not at all surprised. Cutting game with all the poor shot placement with the vast majority being paunch shot. It has me believing that most hunters have no business taking 80% of shots that they even attempt on game.

How do you miss with a cheater bar 😂 rifle hunting is to easy.

Long video with little benefit, could have been sumed up in 2 minutes