Optimal Amount of Tumbling Grit-Part 2

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Due to many requests in the comments of my first video on the optimal amount of grit to use in a rock tumbler, I decided to do another video with more trials. This time I tested 1, 2, 3, and 4 tablespoons of grit. My results were somewhat different than the first time I did this experiment. Here's the first video in case you missed it: • What Is the Optimal Am...
Data:
Measurements in grams
Round One
1 Tbsp Barrel 808-774 4.2%
2 Tbsp Barrel 807-758 6.1%
3 Tbsp Barrel 809-760 6.1%
4 Tbsp Barrel 807-756 6.3%
Round Two
1 Tbsp Barrel 820-797 2.8%
2 Tbsp Barrel 820-789 3.8%
3 Tbsp Barrel 819-771 5.9%
4 Tbsp Barrel 820-766 6.6%
Round Three
1 Tbsp Barrel 817-794 2.8%
2 Tbsp Barrel 817-776 5.0%
3 Tbsp Barrel 817-772 5.5%
4 Tbsp Barrel 818-772 5.6%
Three Week Total
1 Tbsp Barrel 2445-2365 3.3% 26.7 g/Tbsp
2 Tbsp Barrel 2444-2323 5.0% 20.2 g/Tbsp
3 Tbsp Barrel 2445-2303 5.8% 15.8 g/Tbsp
4 Tbsp Barrel 2445-2294 6.2% 12.6 g/Tbsp
- MERCH -
michigan-rocks...
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- KINGSLEY NORTH -
Kingsley North is a lapidary store in Michigan's U.P. They make a great cab machine and sell many other brands too. They have a huge selection rough rock, tumblers, grit, jewelry supplies etc. at good prices. I buy most of my coarse grit from here in 45 lb. bags. It's the best price I have found. If you buy using the following link, I make a small commission.
bit.ly/3MerxdI
This is the cabbing machine I use:
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- THE ROCK SHED -
I buy a lot of lapidary supplies from The Rock Shed. I don't make money from your purchases there, but they have good prices and good service. This is where I buy my finer grits and polish.
rockshed.com
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Опубликовано:

29 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 214

@diann546 6 месяцев назад

Thanks for doing it again. We all appreciate the time it took.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

People made some really good points about ways I could improve upon my first experiment. I think it was my duty to act on those suggestions.

@PlayboiCarti-ny9nz Месяц назад

I like the rock tumbling noise. Sounds like really heavy rain and keeps me asleep

@MichiganRocks Месяц назад

I don't mind it, but I don't think I'd want it in my bedroom.

@centaurus777 Месяц назад

Thanks for all the effort it took to put this video together. Very interesting. I think after watching this I am going to stick with 1 Tbs. per pound of rocks and call it Good Enough 😃

@MichiganRocks Месяц назад

I think you have all the information you need to make a good decision. I like that we can all make different trade offs and feel confident in our decisions.

@josephpotterf9459 6 месяцев назад

Thanks

@bapasrcadventures3619 6 месяцев назад

Thank you for these experiments. Very helpful

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

You're welcome.

@LordRae 6 месяцев назад

I bought some really cool rocks to do for my second batch of rocks in anticipation of my first batch being done. But then I realized I hadn't checked the hardness of the rocks. It's Fluorite. Uh oh. lol Time to go shopping for harder rocks. I know you can tumble those but I also heard the difficulty is way higher so I don't want to do that for my second. Going with some Agates I think. Your channel has been a great resource. I only wish when I asked for a tumbler for Christmas from my family I should have specified not the National Geographic one. ;p

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

You can be successful with that tumbler. Here's how: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-CsTc1kXUuPo.html I agree, that you should set the fluorite aside for awhile.

@masonmercmetaldetecting 6 месяцев назад

Can you just use beach sand? I use my tumbler to make seaglass with all the broken bottles we find metal detecting cellar holes. The grit gets expensive so i am thinking about getting some sand off the beach.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

That's an awesome question because I have two videos to answer it: Does sand make good tumbling grit? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rk1DEqyH8Pc.html Making beach glass in a tumbler: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yAt1Y5cGfWI.html

@lisathompson159 6 месяцев назад

I love experiments like these!! Thank you so much for taking the time to do this! ❤

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

Glad you enjoyed it!

@staceymcmahan5016 6 месяцев назад

Thank you again! My husband keeps saying go by the book! I always say , I'm sorry dear but NO I go by Rob, the expert who does these great experiments and knows a lot

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I usually go by the book, but not when it comes to tumbler instructions.

@colesonafrank5329 6 месяцев назад

Thank you for going to all that trouble and getting some next level data. That you chose to use the same rocks and added relatively rounded rocks was interesting. It makes me wonder if the grit's effectiveness differs with different rock roughness? I think your conclusion this time around is very practical. Thanks again!

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I'm sure it makes some difference. I did run all the rocks for at least a week before using them in this experiment, so there were no really rough rocks with edges that could chip off.

@butchgarner3911 6 месяцев назад

I am sticking with the one time world champ! thanks for sharing!

@sharonrowland1196 6 месяцев назад

Hi Rob 👋😃👍 how's the Rock Tumbling Coming Along? Hey Rob I found out the other day that Flint can be out in a Rock Tumbler is it True? And Flint Takes a Super Great Shine is it True? I'm just wondering's All.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

Great.

@jeffholmes1362 6 месяцев назад

Great job Rob, you can pick an ex teacher, you just didn’t give us a test afterwards 😂😂😂😂. But I’ve found a very similar thing, I found more grit needed to be left longer before cleaning, as not all the grit was worn down in a week. Still I’m sure the tumbler people have tested all this which is how they came up with the recommendation in the first place.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

It's hard to test that precisely, but there wasn't any obvious grit left in any of the barrels at the end of the week.

@dailthegoat799 6 месяцев назад

Exactly 1 Tablespoon can go for a week same with 2 Tablespoons 3 Tablespoons should go for 10 days or two weeks and four tablespoons should go for 2 weeks or more. It all depends on The hardness of the rock how much grit you use and how much time in the barrel Edit: also the speed of what the barrel is moving

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

@@dailthegoat799 There are tons of variables. That makes things interesting!

@kariannecrysler640 6 месяцев назад

Love the science

@German_Rock_Tumbler 6 месяцев назад

Awesome Rob! Iam so happy that you share all the knowledge. So lot of ppl don´t mess up with the grit. Thanks to you and beautiful weekend for you all 👋😇

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I don't think there's really a way to mess it up, just ways to be more efficient.

@German_Rock_Tumbler 6 месяцев назад

I think the only way to mess it up is let open the barryl top and start the Tumbler😅. @@MichiganRocks

@Algorhythmz 6 месяцев назад

Awesome number crunching and great episode. Super interesting!

@KACn5582 6 месяцев назад

Rob does the work so we don't have to! 😊

@paulmurphy9358 6 месяцев назад

I'm in a relatively small apartment for about a year, but after running across your videos, I wanted to try a rock tumbling experiment before moving to a house where I'll have room to run a tumbler that can be far enough away to not be too loud. I ordered some tiger's eye rough from Rock Shed. I also bought a 2-pound tumbler barrel and 1/8x1/4 ceramic media (looks like rice). I'm only using water and dish detergent. I have it 3/4 full with about 1 cup of ceramic media and about a tablespoon of dawn. I used distilled water. I assume this will take almost the full year, but when I walk for about 1 hour I toss the barrel from hand to hand, do some curls, spin it, basically get a little bit of random motion and a surprising amount of upper body exercise by the end of the hour. I can confirm that it does not cement at all. I was on vacation for 8 days and it sat the whole time, but was shaking as normal immediately when I started up again. So, my theory is I will get a little bit of natural grit building up from the rocks themselves, but even after a year (maybe 300 hours of tumbling) I will have slightly rounded edges and some polishing, but it will look nothing like a tumbled rock. Perhaps it will look like a short stint in a vibrating tumbler? I'm hoping it will end up being a completely unique effect. Has anyone tried this or do you have any predictions about what will happen? BTW - thumbs up to Rock Shed. The tiger's eye is really nice, even in its rough state.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

Well that's an ambitious project! The only thing I can add is a video where I tumbled rocks without using any grit. You might be surprised by the results. I sure was. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rk1DEqyH8Pc.html

@jonathanyoung7785 6 месяцев назад

I love this idea! Human-powered ruck tumbling.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

@@jonathanyoung7785 I'm tired just thinking about it.

@margaretlynch1494 6 месяцев назад

🙋‍♀️❤️. May we see some close ups? Looked like some gorgeous rocks in that experiment !

@JustineGuzowski 6 месяцев назад

Thanks, Rob. I watched your 1st video. Since we've had such a warm winter, I've run the same experiment. I found similar results & started using 2 tablespoons of grit per 3 pound tumbler with 2 pounds of rock. I used the same ratio in my large tumbler. I'm using less grit & getting very good results.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

Thanks for getting more data. It's nice to have someone else with similar results.

@mattgohlke8216 18 дней назад

This dude..... Amazing dedication. Huge respect.

@MichiganRocks 17 дней назад

Thanks, Matt.

@rebeccaallshouse7033 4 дня назад

I wonder if the results from the very first experiment (part 1) were similar because the rocks were roughest then, and the surfaces of the rocks did so much grinding on their own that the amount of grit made less difference. Then as the rocks get smoother, the amount of grit seems to make a greater difference.

@MichiganRocks 3 дня назад

Maybe, but I pre-tumbled those just to knock off the sharp edges. They weren't completely rough when that experiment started.

@ccccarriemchardy9216 6 месяцев назад

Fantastic trial!. This gives a better explanation of amount of grit to use. I personally will use two, don't mind waiting longer because the grit is so expensive here.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

Of the people who have responded with their conclusions, it's split about evenly between people who chose two and three tablespoons.

@ccccarriemchardy9216 6 месяцев назад

@@MichiganRocksSounds about right because Its subjective to time and costs, so it entirely depends on what affects you.

@ClassicRock76 6 месяцев назад

Don't forget about your electricity costs. Buying grit in 5 lbs or more does cut the cost substantially.

@geoffyoung4548 5 месяцев назад

Thankyou very much for doing this. All the weighing and sorting would have been painful. I admire your dedication and commitment.

@MichiganRocks 5 месяцев назад

You're welcome! I'm glad you found it useful.

@andrewtanis6428 6 месяцев назад

I appreciate your video. Got me thinking. Usually my 3 tablespoons are ground down by day 5-6 depending on what I’m tumbling (I do stick to a 7day rule) and if less grit is more efficient, maybe doing 1-2 tablespoon and changing the barrels out sooner would yield quicker results with more efficiency in grit use. Just a thought but I will stick with 3tbs and every 7days. Keep the videos coming

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

Good questions. I think you might be right about using less grit and changing it more often. I stick to seven days just because it's easier to keep track of. I'm also really busy making videos so I don't really want to mess with tumblers more often than that. When I was newer at this, though, I had two two-barrel tumblers and I would empty two of the barrels on Wednesday and the other two on Saturday just so I could play with rocks twice a week.

@brianholcomb940 6 месяцев назад

Very informative and interesting! I usually do 2 scoops of grit, but it seems three might be better! I also only tumble for a week. Do you think it would be any different in a vibratory tumbler? Thanks for sharing, Rob! Happy St. Patrick's day to you and Nancy.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

In my Lot-O, I use two tablespoons for the 220 stage and only 1/2 teaspoon for the stages after that, so it's a lot different.

@RickGorczynski 6 месяцев назад

Check the math of a math teacher?? I don't think so... But you beat me to the punch of performing replicate experiments! Your results are believable so thank you for expanding the work. As an aside, I just stopped again at the Nether farm on my way back from VA for another 30lbs of flint. Love this stuff! Also, I am hearing that Lortone is closing it's doors. Maybe we should form a consortium and make them an offer for the place. Any thoughts?

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I sure hope someone buys Lortone and starts running it better than it has been run lately. I'm not the guy to do that though.

@jose-sl1is 6 месяцев назад

Hello and congratulations.! Follow your videos, they are very instructive. Could you comment on how much 1 tablespoon of silicon carbide weighs according to your spoon? Thank you

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I don't know. I'm pretty busy today, so I don't have time to go weigh one.

@ivanpeckham 6 месяцев назад

Thank you, Rob! I actually bought a Lot-O in addition to my Lortones because of your videos. Step one in the Lortones, and the rest of it in the Lot-O; it has been working great. I find pretty much agate/carnelian, jasper, petrified wood, here in Western Oregon.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

Yep, that's much faster, uses less grit, and is more reliable in my experience.

@zed17317 2 месяца назад

Awesome second video! Thank you for your time and effort spent into crunching these numbers!

@MichiganRocks 2 месяца назад

You're welcome.

@weathertrainsrandomniss1083 4 месяца назад

This is a great part two! I think the graph shows it well. As a machinest, we had a sales guy come to sell a parts deburring machine( your loto vibration unit on steroids) . There was different shaped ceramic meida available. The sales guy knew his stuff and explained how some meida is better for different shaped parts,holes,edges.... he kept quoting the removal rate... I wish i still worked there. :( I would like to grab a handful of that meida and run a few tests of my own. Great work! I hope my daughter is as excited for her gift as i am. Lol Cheers from Wisconsin.

@MichiganRocks 4 месяца назад

I have some stainless steel media for hardening wire after wrapping a cabochon. There are about five different shapes in that mix. Ceramic media for rock tumbling seems to always be cylinders with the ends cut off at an angle.

@laanguya4175 6 месяцев назад

Once again another brilliant video, thanks for putting the time in. Guessing it is the same everywhere but here in Australia the grit price goes up pretty quickly the finer the grade. Do you think 80 grit eventually breaks down in the tumbler to 240....400..600 grit etc and would it ever be feasable to leave a barrel running for longer just with the 80 grit and totally skip the other silicon carbide grades as the initial 80 grit has broken down and done each stage prior to switching to Aluminum oxide? I know you tumbled for a year, did the rocks tumbled in the 60/90 silicon carbide grit come out looking similar to rocks tumbled at say 400 or 600 grit. Just a thought to avoid buying less of the finer silicon carbide grits

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

Grit prices do not go up as they get finer here, so that's not a problem for me. But you're in luck, because I actually have the perfect video for you. I tumbled two barrels of rocks for a year, one with silicon carbide, and the other with aluminum oxide. I think you'll learn something from it, I did. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hcRttq9bSrY.html

@parxsiegames5058 3 месяца назад

What about the addition of borax to make a thicker slurry? I wonder if the thicker slurry would improve the rate of weight lost per tablespoon

@MichiganRocks 3 месяца назад

It might. A lot of people believe in using some of the old slurry to get things going. Or they'll just open the barrel and add grit rather than cleaning off the old slurry. Ken on the Rock Tumbling Hobby forums did an experiment on this that you might be interested in reading about. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/68043/cleanout-recharge-experiment-final-results

@theskyeel8605 6 месяцев назад

That graph though.. haha. Your inner math teacher is showing, Rob. You're awesome, thank you.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

The graph was the best way I could think of to show what was going on in my head.

@teresaradford4467 6 месяцев назад

Thank you so much. :) I appreciate your time and effort in helping us get the most bang for my buck (or should I say the most grind for my grit)!!

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I like that!

@tekshin 3 месяца назад

Tell me which minerals are best to process fluorite with? I have a few pieces of fluorite, not enough for a full load.

@MichiganRocks 3 месяца назад

I have only tumbled fluorite once. I finally got it to polish well after several attempts, but I didn't take notes on how I did it. I have some more to play with and plan to make a video when I figure it out again. I wouldn't suggest tumbling it with anything else. It has cleavage planes that are a real pain when trying to tumble it. I guess you could just try using a bunch of ceramic media if you don't have enough fluorite.

@pushyphillips6638 3 месяца назад

I don't usually comment on videos. But this one deserved more than a simple like. It is massively appreciated, so thank you.

@MichiganRocks 3 месяца назад

You're welcome! Thanks for taking the time to make a comment!

@keithrodman9318 6 месяцев назад

Great video and information. I'll have to go back to the first video to see if you said which tumbler you used as I remember when you reviewed the NatGeo you found it rotates faster on the slowest speed than the Lortone does. I know, another variable! One thing you did mention in one of your videos on using the NatGeo tumbler is that with the higher speed it seemed to break down the grit faster. In your opinion from doing these experiments and with your experience using the NatGeo tumbler, do you think you would still get the same results for weight loss just over a shorter timespan with the higher speed settings? My limited remembrance and probably outdated understanding of math and equations is that if you change the value of one of multiple constant values in an equation, then another constant changes inversely (i.e. if speed is doubled then time should be halved) to get the same result, or does that not work in a situation like this? Either way, I may have to experiment with the higher speed settings this summer with the NatGeo tumbler I have, but only for the coarse and/or medium grit stages as I remember you were concerned that in the pre-polish and polish stages the rocks could get "bruised" at the higher speeds. Dang, my math teacher in high school lo many years ago was right! I do need to use math and algebra for the most unexpected things!! Thank you again for another great video. Looking forward to the next one.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I used my homemade tumbler with Lortone barrels for this experiment. My guess would be that for the National Geographic tumbler, it would be as you said. I think you'd get similar results in fewer days.

@Kötkylä 6 месяцев назад

Nice work again👍 three is the number 👍

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

That's the one I'm going with. Several other people decided on two as a better option. It all depends on what your priorities are.

@jonathanyoung7785 6 месяцев назад

I forgot to mention -- although I have no intention of checking your math (a futile endeavor), I don't see the raw data in the description. So unless I'm missing something, you might want to add it.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

Oops! Thanks, Jonathan!

@melanieswift2318 6 месяцев назад

I'm having a problem getting a proper shine on my rocks. Do you happen to know if salt water has any impact on polishing? I live in an area with hard water, so I have a water softener filter that uses salt. I'm not sure if I should be using distilled water instead of tap water. Any suggestions?

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I have never heard of water that has been softened being a problem, but I don't really know. I can't imagine how it would affect it though. I made a video with some of the most common mistakes that people make when tumbling. Take a look at that, try what I recommend, and then let me know if you're still having problems. Also, don't be afraid to re-tumble rocks that you weren't happy with. You shouldn't have to do all the stages over again unless you determine that you really rushed the first stage. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-RuPtptr7_V4.html

@brino7900 6 месяцев назад

Thanks wanted to do this myself but seemed overwhelming with my setup

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

It was a bit overwhelming with my setup!

@kellyhollingsworth6100 6 месяцев назад

I have been using your method from the first video, and had good result. I think if it is not broke don't fix it. Thanks for doing that I was feeling like a math genius by the end.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I'm pretty sure you're not a math genius because of this video, but it's nice that you felt like it. Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

@darkwood777 6 месяцев назад

Graphs and numbers! Thanks! I didn't think we convinced you it was worth doing another round. Now we need to get you a grant to keep the project funded.

@ClassicRock76 6 месяцев назад

That's an interesting thought and I wonder how one applies for grants like this. Sounds like something from the Flintstones, maybe Flintrock University?

@darkwood777 6 месяцев назад

NSF National Stone Foundation. 😄@@ClassicRock76

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I was not convinced at first, but eventually the comments were overwhelming and I realized that you were right.

@greatnorthernviews3052 6 месяцев назад

As always good to know.

@copasetic1 5 дней назад

I’ve been bouncing around your treasure trove of videos as I’ve gotten back into rock tumbling. They’re all fantastic, but this is the first one I’ve seen with this background and the lighting. Looks great!

@MichiganRocks 3 дня назад

Are you talking about my Michigan Rocks sign? That's sort of new. I made it with a laser engraver that a company sent me to review on my channel. That's a fun machine.

@copasetic1 3 дня назад

@@MichiganRocks yes! It looks great. If there’s a video on it, I’ll find it and give it a watch! I also appreciate the boost to key lighting on you. Looks great.

@keppscrossing 6 месяцев назад

Great videos! I wonder what would happen with no grit? Does the amount of wear fall on that exponential scale?

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I did that in this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rk1DEqyH8Pc.html

@jpaul080710 6 месяцев назад

Thanks for the video. Very good education

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

You're welcome, Paul.

@markreetz1001 6 месяцев назад

You science type people! That was interesting. The grams lost per tbls of grit was an interesting angle.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

Yeah, there's definitely more than one way to look at it.

@m8s4lif 6 месяцев назад

Really good experiment. Between the two videos, it looked to me like either one or two scoops to get the sharp edges off which was where you kind of started in the first video, then I would go with two scoops for two weeks, and then three after that. It appeared to me that the sharper the edges, the less the extra grit helps. Hope you and your loved ones have a wonderful spring.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

That's what great about this video, everyone can decide for themselves how much they should use.

@michaelkinney6082 6 месяцев назад

Has anyone ever found any of the rocks that you leave behind for people to find? I am asking because I have never seen you mention it.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

Yes, I'd say about 2/3 have been reported back to me. I post pictured in community posts here on RU-vid. If you go to my main page and click on "Community" at the top, you can scroll back and see them. I don't make many community posts, so they shouldn't be hard to find.

@jose-sl1is 6 месяцев назад

Hola. No era broma lo de saber el peso en gramos de su cucharada de carburo de silicio. Lo que ocurre es que uso tanques de 8 kilogramos y queria saber a razon de 1 cucharada cuantos gramos representa eso. Gracias y saludos cordiales

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

Solo pesé una cucharada de grano de carburo de silicio 60/90. Pesaba 20 gramos.

@SpiritWarriorTim 6 месяцев назад

I live in Rochester Mn where there is not much rocks to choose from and Iv resorted to ordering rock online. Is there a good source for rocks online to order from and I am also thinking of starting a rock club here in my area too. Any ideas?

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I order most of mine from either The Rock Shed or Kingsley North. You can find links to both places in the description of this video.

@dailthegoat799 6 месяцев назад

I might go for 2 tablespoons but the thing is you only did them for a week at a time if you did them all for a month and made sure all the grit got ground down from each barrel you probably would have got a little better of a difference

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

There are tons of other variables, but I just don't have time to try them all. I agree that varying the time would be interesting.

@outdoorstudios2022 6 месяцев назад

Hello Rob, thx for doing it again, would like to see more like this

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I plan do do more experiments. They're not very popular videos, but I think they're helpful for those of us who want to understand the process better.

@tulazaz 6 месяцев назад

I can tell I would have really liked having you for a math teacher. 😊

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

That's because I can't give homework on RU-vid.

@Kawwakaze Месяц назад

i wonder how it would go if you did ½ tbsp, 1 ½ tbsp, and 3 ½ tbsp

@MichiganRocks Месяц назад

That's going to be a mystery. Doing this experiment twice was enough for me.

@davidjfoto 6 месяцев назад

Our rocking guru!

@jenniferbutcher8393 6 месяцев назад

Excellent info!! Thank you!

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

You're welcome.

@daveninjaneuro7089 4 месяца назад

You rock!

@charlesfosterrocks 6 месяцев назад

I agree. Thanks for this video.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

You're welcome.

@nicolagraynewzealandrockho8976 5 месяцев назад

Such an interesting experiment. I'll be sticking to the one tab per pound like you do. I've got 3 new 4 pound barrels, maybe i could run an experiment too.

@MichiganRocks 5 месяцев назад

Go for it! Let me know if you learn anything.

@nicolagraynewzealandrockho8976 5 месяцев назад

@@MichiganRocks I'll have to have a think about what sort of experiment I want to do. One thing cool I've down is face polish done Thunder eggs from Oregon. They are beautiful. They came a long way to NZ. I posted a video if you are keen to see it.

@Muxoll-Rocks 6 месяцев назад

brilliant. just in time for tumbling season :)

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

There's a season? I run them all year long. You must be running them in your garage in a cold climate.

@OntarioRob 6 месяцев назад

You could literally do these tupe of videos for every type of grit & polish. I'd be curious how the same trial would go if you used 46/70. Of all the grits I use, 46/70 is by far the most used over several weeks of the first stage

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I could, but I'm not going to. I would like to test different grits, but keeping the amount the same.

@ClassicRock76 6 месяцев назад

I haven't tried 46/70, but am curious. Does it take down rocks faster and do you have any data on gram loss?

@OntarioRob 6 месяцев назад

@MichiganRocks I think the first stage, regardless of what type of grit a person would start with, would be where the most savings would be. I'll stay with the number of tsps vs the barrel size. The experiment was interesting, though & I'll always watch because it seems you're continually searching for the best tumbling process that's gets the best results for the least amount of money & that would be one of the greatest solutions that applies to the most people

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

@@ClassicRock76 I have no data on that at all. It's something I want to experiment with, though.

@OntarioRob 6 месяцев назад

@@ClassicRock76 I personally don't have any date regarding 46/70. It's my usual 1st stage grit & by far the grit I use the most throughout the entire process of tumbling. Maybe Rob can do an experiment one day on it

@ryanvruwink8725 6 месяцев назад

Thank you for these results. How many Tbsp would you recommend for each stage of rock tumbling?

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I almost always do all the stages except the first stage in a vibratory tumbler, so that's what I'm most familiar with. In my Lot-O I use 2 tablespoons of 220, 1/2 teaspoon of 500 aluminum oxide, and 1/2 teaspoon of aluminum oxide polish for the last stage. When doing all the stages in a rotary tumbler, I usually use 1 tablespoon of grit per pound the barrel is rated for. So in a three pound barrel I use three tablespoons in each stage.

@ryanvruwink8725 6 месяцев назад

Thank you so much

@JR-vi4rl 6 месяцев назад

My goodness Rob, excellent forensic study on grit quantities affect on grinding efficiency. I had always been using 3 tablespoons of 60/90 and always would fret to myself that I wasn't using enough. Thanks for putting my mind to ease. I did a stage 1 experiment once. For a short period of time, I was straining and reusing the slurry. It looked like it didn't make any difference, so I quit. Not sure why I did that, I guess I was wanting to amuse myself. 😅 Thanks again.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

Some people will add old slurry to a new batch to thicken the slurry. The idea is that a thicker slurry will help the grit stick to the rocks better and therefore be more effective. I have never been convinced that that was a good idea. I don't think it's a bad one, just not something I bothered doing. I do sometimes use water from the last batch just to get rid of some dirty water so I don't have to get rid of it some other way.

@jonathanyoung7785 6 месяцев назад

I've using the following approach with success: after tumbling the first week in a 3 pound barrel with about 3 tablespoons of coarse grit, I simply add about one more tablespoon of grit without removing the rocks or the slurry, run another week, add one more tablespoon, etc. I do this for 4 or 5 weeks until the slurry is so thick that the rocks won't tumble. The main purpose is to avoid the clean-out effort for rocks that I know won't be ready for a minimum of 6-8 weeks. But by not removing the broken down grit, it seems to continue to grind a little bit, and adding merely one more tablespoon is enough to keep the rocks grinding down at a satisfactory rate.

@preppy890 6 месяцев назад

Great information. Thank you for the time you spent on it. I will stick with 2 Tbsp of grit for 30 oz of rocks I my Lortone and feel good about it.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I'm glad I revisited this. What's good about having more data is that we can all make our own decision about how much to use. You're going with two tablespoons, I decided on three and I'm sure some people will use more or less than us.

@preppy890 6 месяцев назад

@@MichiganRocks for sure and each of us have a real idea of what we are gaining or losing with our choices.

@powerlinekid4296 6 месяцев назад

Well, that settles that...5 Tbsp is the way to go.

@ClassicRock76 6 месяцев назад

@powerlinekid4296 That gave me a chuckle.

@milesnn 6 месяцев назад

Awesome as always and thank you so much

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

You're welcome, Miles.

@davidhile5363 6 месяцев назад

It still looks like 3 tbs of grit per 3 lb barrel is the optimal amount to use. Maybe 3 1/2. Did you notice if all the grit was consumed in the 4 tbs barrel ?

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I didn't really feel it this time, but when you dump a barrel with unused grit into the colander, it's usually pretty obvious. I didn't notice any.

@ClassicRock76 6 месяцев назад

On rocks of 6 hardness or higher, I have found that 3 tablespoons of 60/90 grit with 3 lbs of rock of 60/90 grit is not noticeable by feel after a week. This has been very consistent in my tumbles.

@zacfuller3834 6 месяцев назад

Lovely exponential graph in the making. Thanks for repeating the experiment

@11stefanj 6 месяцев назад

Awesome job Rob. Thank you for doing this. I am a less is more as I am cheap with grit. This confirmed what I suspected. If you're looking for a new challenge how about 1 week vs 2 weeks between rrcharges?

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I have some other experiments in mind, but running them for two weeks is not one of them. I think the grit is pretty much used up after a week. I'm sure you'd get some more grinding in the second week, but I think it would be much less.

@jonathanyoung7785 6 месяцев назад

I've always wanted to try a long rough tumble (4 week?) with obsidian and an extra coarse grit like 30 or 46. Since obsidian is mohs 5-ish, the extra coarse grit might take a month or more to fully break down, and continue to grind effectively during that time period. @@MichiganRocks

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

@@jonathanyoung7785 Yes, with something like obsidian, I think that would work well. Soft rocks really take a long time to break grit down.

@jonathanyoung7785 6 месяцев назад

Hi, Rob, I tend to overanalyze things, and this video provides grist for the over-analytical mill. A few thoughts: 1. This + the prior video seem to confirm something I have noticed when rough grinding in a rotary tumbler: the grinding dynamics of rough (sharp edges) rocks is quite different than how rocks grind down once the sharp edges are worn off. Perhaps this is obvious, but it's cool to see data that confirms it. 2. Diminishing returns for more grit means one of two things. Either (A) with more grit, the grit is not broken down as finely in one week of tumbling (and in that case, you might ultimately get the same amount of rock removal with more grit if you left them to tumble longer); or, if the grit is broken down as finely regardless of the amount, then (2) as the amount of grit increases, an increasing amount of that grit gets broken down by something other than making abrasive contact with the rocks (what you could think of as non-productive grit breakdown). That "something" is probably grit breaking down grit, with the rocks providing the force. I won't ask you to do any more runs of this, but it would be interesting to compare 2 tablespoons for 1 week vs. 4 tablespoons for two weeks.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

There are so many more experiments that could be done along these same lines, but it just takes so much time. I'm also out of rocks of the same size for now. I want to run some other experiments, but I need to buy more rocks just to do that. I think your experiment of two tablespoons for a week vs. four for two weeks would be interesting, but I'll leave that one for someone else.

@jonathanyoung7785 6 месяцев назад

If there is enough public interest, perhaps you could make a public google spreadsheet where people could post their own results. You can give the public write-only access with you retaining administrative access. You could establish basic process-related parameters to ensure some degree of consistency. The bigger point is that it would be cool if curious viewers could somehow help fill out the data. It wouldn't be perfect science since it would be difficult to account for inconsistent use of the scientific method, barrel size, rock type, etc. But the basic premise of collaborative data generation could be fun and enlightening. I would certainly be willing to run a few rounds in both large and small barrels to help generate data. @@MichiganRocks

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

@@jonathanyoung7785 That's a great idea, but not something I have time to take on right now. I'd also be very wary about the quality of the data coming in. I know from working with thousands of kids over the years and from reading comments here on RU-vid as well as on various Facebook groups, that most people are not very scientifically minded. I tried really hard to keep everything really consistent, but most people are much more casual about things.

@okthen4820 6 месяцев назад

how about optimal time for stage 4? do you have a video for that?

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

No, but longer seems to be better. I run mine for two weeks. I figure after waiting all that time, I'd rather wait an extra week to be sure they're really shiny. I haven't experimented with that though. That would be hard experiment to run because it's much more subjective. You'd have to just try to tell which rocks looked shinier. They don't lose hardly any mass in the polish stage so you couldn't go by that.

@okthen4820 6 месяцев назад

@@MichiganRocks yea i hear you.

@Mike-br8vb 6 месяцев назад

Man, those pesky viewers are demanding!!😆 Thanks for doing the work on this one. It was a great video! I've been doing my own research with stage#1 tumbling. Instead of dumping the slurry, I've been adding 3 tbs of grit to it for the past 4 weeks. It's pretty thick, but the rocks seem to be grinding down well enough. Idk, maybe my experiment is dumb, but I won't know unless I or anyone else tries!

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

That's not a dumb experiment at all. Here's someone else who did the same experiment: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/68043/cleanout-recharge-experiment-final-results

@Mike-br8vb 6 месяцев назад

@MichiganRocks Wow!! Thanks so much Rob for linking that, I've sat here and read that and all the comments. I guess that wasn't a dumb experiment I tried! I didn't do all the calculations and formulas, but now I think I might. Rob, if you did this though it would make for some great videos, you have the audience sir. Thank you very much for your input!

@jonathanyoung7785 6 месяцев назад

I do something similar sometimes, but after the first week I recharge with only about 1 tablespoon or grit. Seems to grind almost as fast as doing a clean out and full grit amount with less grit and less effort.

@Mike-br8vb 6 месяцев назад

@jonathanyoung7785 I'll try that next go! Thanks, Jonathan!

@elizabethlewis3509 6 месяцев назад

Love your experiments and the results

@allanmoe8495 5 месяцев назад

Should have done one with no grit to see what happens

@MichiganRocks 5 месяцев назад

I did that here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rk1DEqyH8Pc.html

@allanmoe8495 5 месяцев назад

@@MichiganRocks thanks

@mikebyrne8672 3 месяца назад

Would you be interested in doing an experiment using sintered boron carbide as a stage one grit?

@MichiganRocks 3 месяца назад

I'd have to hear more about it. I don't know what that is or where I would get it. Is it readily available? How much does it cost? If it was readily available, cheap, and worked well, then it would be worth doing a video about if it helped people tumble more effectively.

@mikebyrne8672 3 месяца назад

@@MichiganRocks I’m trying to find a way to pressure it into a powder. Sinteredboron carbide is the second hardest thing next to diamond. I have access to scrap pellets at my work and I’ve seen how fast it grinds down metal I don’t know if it’s readily available on the market I work in a specialized field. If I can crush them down, I’ll try it for one week and one of my tumblers.

@MichiganRocks 3 месяца назад

@@mikebyrne8672 Let me know how it goes. Since it would probably be difficult to get for most people, I don't know if it makes sense to make a video about it.

@joniangelsrreal6262 6 месяцев назад

👁👁 🥳 👏👏 A rock hounds hero…! 7:18

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

That's the whole length of the video, I think you copied the wrong timestamp.

@joniangelsrreal6262 6 месяцев назад

@@MichiganRocks Watched from start to finish and pressed the tag …so I can’t explain further …

@sboydrocks9412 6 месяцев назад

Great work Rob. I think this experiment might give some clues to your tumbling results for the one year experiment without changing grit. I think in that experiment you got some levels of polish with only 1 grit. I am suspicious that rounded stones lose more because the rounded surface area gets more surface abrasive interaction. The nooks and crannies and valleys and under crofts of rough or broken stones surely must miss out on regular abrasions for occasional or random contacts. I would think that if this rounded vs craggy hypothesis is true you might find data skews as you get rounded maybe you lose more weight per week. This of course does it factor in chips, fractures or breaks. Maybe testing uniform glass marbles with grit might track the size and shape issues but it would represent glass and not agates. Boy, this science analysis stuff is hard and hats off to you and all who do experiments .

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I'm all done with this particular experiment. I think that more rounded surfaces might make a difference. I tumbled all the rocks for at least a week before using them in this experiment because really rough rocks visually change a lot in the first week. I think some of those sharp corners chip off. I also think they might grind off faster because there's more pressure on a smaller surface. With rounded rocks, there's more surface exposed for grinding, but there might be less pressure since the pressure is distributed over a larger surface. Then there's the matter of the grit breaking down. Would a more rounded surface break it down faster, making it less effective later in the week? Lots of questions to think about with this seemingly simple experiment.

@ClassicRock76 6 месяцев назад

Having worked in quality and with quality engineers in my profession, it's astounding how a seemingly simple experiment can become a multifaceted evaluation. Sometimes the more data you generate, the more questions you get. But good questions usually lead to solid solutions.

@sboydrocks9412 6 месяцев назад

@@MichiganRocks I agree no more experiments as the permutations blow the top of my head off and there are so many rocks and so little time.🤪

@jonathanyoung7785 6 месяцев назад

I'm with Rob on this. Rough (jagged) rocks seem to grind faster since the contacts points between rocks are fewer / smaller, so the force is more concentrated. It's like laying down on one nail vs. a bed of nails. Nevertheless, fully rounded off rocks may grind down faster than rocks that have no sharp points but are not fully rounded, for the reason you suggest (more area of contact). @@MichiganRocks

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

@@jonathanyoung7785 I may have gotten my idea from you on this, Jonathan, so I'm with you rather than you being with me.

@gwynnfarrell1856 6 месяцев назад

Wow, lots of data to get my brain tangled up in. I'll go with the conclusion - 3 tablespoons of grit! Thank you, Rob 😁

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

You're welcome, Gwynn.

@JnVrockhounding 6 месяцев назад

Such great info Rob. Thanks for this series.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

You're welcome.

@jat3mtnbiker 6 месяцев назад

Thanks, Rob! Appreciate your time spent on this.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

You're welcome.

@ruthchapman3847 6 месяцев назад

Interesting results. Thank you for all your hard work

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

You're welcome, Ruth.

@getlosttoday4045 6 месяцев назад

That's about what I use in my tumblers too. Thanks for the dedication on testing

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

You're welcome.

@geoffjohnson6555 6 месяцев назад

This was a total blast. Thanks for all your time into this one. Super enjoyable

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

Glad you had so much fun, Geoff!

@allensaucier7071 6 месяцев назад

Thanks for doing the work to get this data, I am sticking with the three also.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

Welcome to the three group!

@pattypaine 6 месяцев назад

Thanks so much for your time and effort to do these trials!

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

You're welcome, Patty.

@tomstadnyk546 6 месяцев назад

This was fantastic! Especially the grams per tbls comparison.. A ton of work by you to give us some fabulous data. Thanks a lot.

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

No problem, Tom.

@jonathanyoung7785 6 месяцев назад

I agree. A smart way to display the data that makes the diminishing returns quite obvious.

@PattyFatty69 6 месяцев назад

Hey I've been looking on your channel and FB and Insta and Amazon pages and can't find what you recommend for new users my GF loves rocks and I want to get her one and all the reviews on Amazon say they break fast and idk what's the best option to get her? What's your best recommendation?

@MichiganRocks 6 месяцев назад

I really like Lortone tumblers, but they just announced that they're closing. I think Kingsley North might still have some. I really like the Lortone 33B, or the 3A if you just want one barrel. The QT66/QT12 is good if you want a bigger tumbler. If Kingsley North is out, check The Rock Shed. There are links to both places in the description of this video.