Even if you cant use shadow blade with booming blade RAW, if you are using two weapon fighting at lvl 6, you can attack with the shadow blade first, then your other weapon using booming blade, followed by the shadow blade again as your bonus action.
"When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand." "Starting at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of *those* attacks." So, the cantrip can only be done with an attack from the main hand weapon and you can't just swap weapons back and forth between your hands in the middle of your turn. You could have shadow blade in your offhand, but at that point its probably not worth your concentration. RAW, you can't cast a cantrip in place of your bonus action attack. That being said, as a DM I would still allow it in my campaign because its just nitpicking at that point and I want my players to have fun. Just check with your DM first.
@@quonomonna8126 @Quonomonna there's no such thing as a "main hand" or "off hand." You take the attack action, giving you two attacks, one of which can be replaced with a cantrip. You make a melee attack with Shadowblade, then cast a cantrip. That cantrip is booming blade which only says "You brandish the weapon used in the spell's casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you." The weapon you're using as the component is the shortsword in your other hand. There is nothing preventing this. You have now made an attack with your shortsword, it says so in the text of booming blade, so you can take a bonus action to attack with a light melee weapon held in your other hand, which in this case is shadowblade. So the attack sequence goes: shadowblade, booming blade shortsword, two weapon fighting shadowblade.
@@40Found two Weapon Fighting says “when you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand.” So RAW, attacking with Booming blade/green flame blade doesn’t count for TWF. You can still attack with your second weapon triggered off your first Shadow Blade attack, but just not triggered off of Booming Blade.
@@akmi1931 why would it not? Booming blade was part of my attack action as a bladesinger, and it said to make a melee weapon attack so I a) took the attack action and b) attacked with a light melee weapon. I've met all the conditions for TWF.
@@40Found actually, I admit I misread your comment. I read it as trigger TWF off your GFB but it actually triggering off your first attack. GFB also happens to trigger off your Shadowblade attack because both trigger off the attack action, not the last attack made.
Nice video. I like the takes on the different spells options and flavor you provide. Glad to hear you'll be posting the old Bladesinger video back up, as I like what you did with the disadvantage type spells to make it harder to be hit.
One thing I'll say is that this class is still 100% wizard. I don;t think you need to always choose between spells like haste or shadoblade. Take both! Cast what is most appropriate at the time!
I think it's hard to carry too much redundancy in some campaigns where you only get the 2 new spells per level, but I would certainly prefer to have all of the spells in my book! I'm a big fan of Haste on Bilbron Bafflestone for the extra Hide action and how great it is in T-Rex form, but I cast it out of my familiar and his spell gem. But I really do love the +2 AC and think it would be fantastic on a Bladesinger, especially if regularly attacked at disadvantage.
Love the channel - the clarity and thoughtfulness is so refreshing. Also, what about a distilled, final version - OPTIMIZED BLADESINGER - a capstone build with no distaste for dishonorable tactics and uses summons. Summarize the wisdom gained by building the Bladesingers in this series into one final "Sum of All". I would love to hear some of those "your DM will hate you" disclaimers. Hahaha. Great job as usual.
Thanks! I appreciate your support and engagement :-) I've gone on a Bladesinger Series lately, and have created several builds for it! They're all pretty badass. There's a Playlist for all the Bladesinger vids.
this is why i think haste is such a good go to for bladesinger you can cast a spell offensive or defensive and still contribute in fighting either at range or up close haste gives you that extra versatility to be able to help while still looking after the squishy wizard inside every bladesinger
It's works well most of the time. But at the end of the spell, you cannot move or take an action. A well timed Dispel Magic by an enemy (ending the spell) can mean your death. This is a risky spell to take.
@@fortunatus1 I agree so much, I almost died, and also was literally down to many times because of that. It's worth it mostly when you have the jump on the ennemy and you know what you're facing and your allies are not too far. Never go in hasted on your own, even if your super fast movement make it easy. If you wanna use it, start with it and go in, murder the thing, go out and murder another one. With shield as a reaction and haste and the bladesong and a good armor you're very very hard to hit, so it should be ok. Best thing is to have contingency with a polymorph into a T-Rex ready to pop if you're ever below 10 or something.
So the hang up on first round shadow blade I think is actually a blessing in disguise.. use your action to cast a spell to sniff light source such as control fire.. that way you create the dim light you need, and you start in the back until you can shadow blade round 2 and have your blade song going.. I know it’s a bit of dps waste but I feel like it really can provide a sustained buff
You can't use booming blade or green flame blade as a haste action. Despite making a melee strike, it is still counted as casting a spell and haste doesn't give you an extra spell cast.
I was able to buy +1 studded leather armor and Illusionist's Bracers during my campaign as a Bladesinger. I actually started off as a lv. 1 artificer variant human so that I can have a CON save and war caster from the get-go (I only lost concentration twice during my 1 year campaign, not counting nat 1s because of course you fail during nat 1s). The +1 studded leather armor meant I didn't have any need for mage armor and Illusionist's Bracers allowed me to use Booming Blade twice as one of my extra attacks and as a bonus action. Add in haste and I was able to swordplay four times in one round.
So the thing about nat 1's is that it only ever exists in terms of attack rolls say for example you rolled a 1 on your acrobatics check and you have a bonus of +5 to escape a grapple if the opponent then rolls a 2 and only has a bonus of +3 meaning you rolled a 6 and they rolled a 5 you would still break free because nat 1 doesn't mean instant fail just like how nat 20's don't mean instant success you can try all you like to lift a tarrasque but even if you roll a nat 20 it's not budging
@@lucasramey6427 No problem, it's one of my personal favorite items. I first used it as a warlock, then when I decided to play as a bladesinger wizard I saw the potential and baby, does hitting twice with booming blade feel so good! I tried being a pseudo blocking defender and use booming blade to try to stop baddies from getting past me to my allies, but it either didn't work because the dm's npcs were too smart, had tricks like teleporting, or the whole thing backfires and I got surrounded by booming baddies. I also saw your post about nat 1s. My group likes to use nat 20s and nat 1s to the nth degree so if I got a nat 1, it was a fucking hell of a nat 1. Paid off with amazing nat 20s though.
To be clear, Jeremy Crawford is NOT saying that it is RAI that Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade work with Shadow Blade. He only said that he'd allow it at his table. The former would be considered an official ruling. His tweet was clearly an unofficial statement.
His tweet clearly also states that breaking this combo was never the intention... "This change has nothing to do with prohibiting or allowing Shadow Blade to combine with Booming/Green-Flame Blade. It's about fixing those two cantrips. As DM, I'd allow those them to combo, since I make liberal use of the rule on improvised weapons."
Another decent starting option is Mark of Making Human. You get +2 to INT and a free use of Magic Weapon that doesn’t require concentration. Great for melee at early levels.
In terms of dips i would say rogue up to level 2 the wizard needs bonus actions sneak attack is cool and optimizes invisibility and greater invis. Other than that i appreciate the video and learned alot
Cunning Action is AMAZEBALLS. My latest Bladesinger went with Goblin to replicate CA with a Racial, but I did take Rogue 1 on that build, so a legitimate option would be to invest another level for Rogue 2, then swap Race to something else (Maybe V/C for a Feat, maybe something thematic like Changeling, maybe something cheesy like Yuan-Ti or a Flying race).
I'd like to add as dipping suggestion, 1 lvl in Geenie Warlock. While Bag of Holding + Glyph of Warding is controversial and pocket dimension spells comes really late game, at lvl 1 you'll already have a pocket dimension to call your own RAW (Bottled Respite) Items left there remain as they are. It also gives you a slight damage boost equal to your proficiency (Genie's Wrath). The downside is requiring an action to enter and a bonus action to leave (can be done in the same turn) but if you activated Haste inside you'll still have something to do and you lost just one level of spell progression and got Hex too yay :). Cool huh!
I found if you multi class 3 lvls in to Artificer Battle Smith You can use your INT in place of you STR or DEX Gain a lot of weapon Proficiencies With Battle Ready you get Healing spell ,and a companion to guard and give you and your friends on advantage
Im trying out bladesinger and when i went in i went in a versatility mindset while selecting my spells. While having dex or int is cool i went with a why not both scenario? I chose spells that still allow for typical battlefield control(slow and tashas hideous laughter) offensive spells (fireball) and utility (understand languages and enlarge/reduce) to keep options open which was the goal of this build. The party im running has a cleric and a monk so i became the flex
Nice! I really respect the BS kit for being so flexible in the playstyles you can create with it. I've done 6 Bladesinger Builds so far for that Series, and they're all wildly different! Including one of the best Grapplers in the game, which is weird to say in the same sentence as "Bladesinger", lol. The Beastly Bladesinger is also a really kooky look that literally challenges for top DPR output in the entire game. Cool stuff, kudos to the Bladesinger!
worth noting that tumble is a bonus action, and is an opposed acrobatics test, bladesingers get advantage on acrobatics, so its worth taking a background that gives proficiency in it - makes getting out of reach much easier without using spells or feats.
I haven't seen anyone talk about foresight as a potential 9th level pick for bladesingers, and to me it seems kind of obvious - particularly if you've taken something like elven accuracy, which I see a lot of folks recommending. Not that 17th level is a reasonable thing to be planning around, necessarily, but it still always seemed like such a thematically appropriate spell for them. 8 hours of advantage on everything and constant disadvantage for attacks against you (when you can rock an AC of nearly 30) on a martial wizard sounds like a fun time. (I mean, shapechange and Blade of Disaster and wish are CERTAINLY better in the moment, but foresight lasts all damn day, and has that great subtle-magic feel.) I dunno... maybe I've just got a soft spot for it. :-P Also, I adore running haste on my bladesinger, and I'm happy to see you actually give it a fair shake in this, which I haven't seen many folks do. Great vid, great presentation. Thanks for the hard work. You've definitely got a new sub from me.
I also prefer true polymorph to shapechange because raw I believe you can turn a simulacrum into a dragon. Tough is a decent feat to start off with so you can more easily hang with other melee fighters.
Many thanks! I will re-release that previous effort under a new title with some new edits, since people were interested in watching me take a character 1-20 with some avant-garde approaches. Will actually probably turn that into a new series for people interested in longer works talking about 1-20 builds. I greatly appreciate your support and engagement!
This combo has been almost completely outclassed by summon fey, though. The only condition I can think of for flaming sphere + bb being your best option is if you have warcaster and know the enemy is going to leave your space without disengaging OR trying to get you to use your reaction for Shield first. But yeah at level 3 it’s a solid choice.
Would love a deep dive on summon greater demon and shapechange. I've never been able to cast either but have enjoyed thinking about all the possibilities.
Animate objects is such a fun spell if you decide to animate ten swords (since weapons are small or tiny) and have them slash at the enemies with your bonus action, while you carve into them as an action. Alternatively an archer could have an animated swarm of arrows flying around following whatever poor sap they target. If you don’t have one of the suggested methods of getting free disengage, mind whip becomes a fun way to effectively do so, and would also let your animated objects get the same benefit.
I don't have 5th level spells yet, but roll with 10x Tiny Servants which is nearly as good, and I like to get them attacks at advantage with Heavy Obscurement (they have Blightsight) and Sapping Sting (prone condition right before the Tiny Servants attack). Animate Objects is a great "Summon" (as I think of it).
Two weapon fighting to my knowledge is best used by elven dexterity paladins with the elven accuracy feat giving them 3 to 4 attacks per round and a very high chance to land a critical hit
@@bmonci1 indeed, and that is part of the reason hexblades are so powerful. Additionally, you could do exactly the same thing with a hexblade, but it is a bit harder to get advantage on attacks though it actually more effective than the paladin if you can get it.
@@bmonci1 Hexblades are actually better than paladins for this role in other ways as well as they are less MAD only really needing charisma, and can swap out the duel wielding for a bow or crossbow giving them ranged options.
Flipping the face of the coin, how do you feel about making a Rogue/SwashbucklerX build with a 6 level dip into Bladesinger for the Cantrip+Extra Attack, Bladesong and defensive spells (Shield, Blur, Absorb Ele, Invis). Start with Rogue (for extra S skills and HP). This would not be a BS build, but a Rogue build with a BS dip to Optimize on Cantrip melee dmg and defensive options. That way we are focusing exclusively in melee combat, with some considerations for a huge 6 level dip: - 6 dip means -3d6 Sneak but BB+Extra Attack compensates for that with d8s - Swashbuckler allows for reliable 2TWF or Dash on disengage when out of slots/Bladesong - Optimize on DEX and Finesse weapons - Uncanny Dodge as a mitigating layer when Shield is not viable. - If in a long Campaign: After Rogue 8(Evasion) can do a dip 2 in Fighter for Style (dueling or TWF) and action surge. (Swash9/BS6/Fig2) Requires lvl 17.
I honestly can't properly evaluate a build until I put it into my spreadsheet format (so I can see what's going on at each Level), and crunch the numbers. It sounds like it may work in theory, though!
Honestly I perfer the build of 3 levels of fighter for the echo knight subclass then the rest of the levels in wizard bladesinger that way you'll have action surge for more damage which you can booming blade again with you'll have second wind for when you need a quick heal the 3 good choices of Dueling fighting style defense fighting style and the superior Technique fighting style then you'll have all the great stuff that echo knight has like an echo of yourself that you can do your attacks through and the enemies can focus on and if it gets killed just resummon it as a bonus action if the enemy ignores it you could have sentinel or war caster and through the echo opportunity attack the enemy stopping them in their tracks with either sentinel or preferred method causing more damage from booming blade or the enemy stops so it doesn't take the extra damage then focuses back on the echo which you then just resummon for free you could also be more aggressive and you be the one attacking with your echo 30ft behind you (also the echo can fly since you can move it in any direction) then swap places with the echo with your bonus action then do the echo's con mod uses of 1 extra attack coming from it giving you 5 attack rolls that turn if you action surge then echo attack. The echo also has some uses out of combat say you need to get onto a cliff or similarly tall thing that's at most 60ft high you start with the echo being 30ft away from you the farthest it can be away from you without vanishing at the end of your turn you then move the echo 30ft for free on top of where you want to go then use your bonus action to swap places and when you end your turn the echo vanishes until resummoned. When you aren't using your bonus action to either summon or teleport with your echo you can use the bladesinger's bread and butter bonus action spells for example melf's minute meteors are a great choice and will always be a go to for me playing bladesinger same with it's direct upgrade crown of stars you use these spells when you want to mix things up from using haste all the time (also side bit but best 9th level spell for bladesinger blade of disaster)
I'm curious if you calculated the animate objects bonus action economy (upcasted, etc) before 9th level spells. Even for creatures resistant to non-magic bludgeoning, you may find higher damage output while thematically controlling blade fragments. I say this because the unpopular but new blade of disaster spell emulates the mechanic at the cost of such a pertinent spell slot.
Not really, no... I'd never cast Animate Objects over Summon Greater Demon, personally. I'm not obsessed with damage and prefer special abilities and resilience, most days.
Can't believe this is version 2 and still no mention of flaming sphere. It comes online at 3rd level, upcasts well, and gives the enemy a double bind...either they stand still and take flaming sphere damage again, or they move and take the booming blade rider, and a possible opportunity attack... So cast at 3rd level its 3d6 plus 2d8 or 6d6....plus it has a level of battlefield control...
3rd level Flaming Sphere does 3d6 fire to a single target and consumes your bonus action every round. 3rd level Dragon's Breath does 4d6 variable energy type in a 15' cone and consumes your familiar's action every round. No contest, IMO.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons But flaming sphere does another 3d6 if they don't move away on their turn, so it does 6d6 per turn, *or* they move and take the booming blade rider.,, In practice I find two things at the table. Sometimes the opponent can't move, and sometimes you can rest adjacent to multiple enemies, forcing them to manoeuvre in sub optimal ways, or eat the additional damage. Also any table I've been at where a familiar was causing damage instantly had a dead familiar....
Fire shield for non con resistance is awesome. But the 2d8 when u get hit is anti synergy with bladesinger because the whole point is not to get hit. Fire shielded agaisnt a marilith and she missed all attacks on me, because bladesinger is awesome for never *almost Getting hit
It's a good back up for when you have contingency, or you're out of bladesongs and 1st level spell slots for shield and absorb elements - you can only upcast so many times... _Stares off into the distance_
I feel like Misty Step and/or Thunderstep are missing from the list. Both make for a quick getaway when surrounded by enemies. Also, dipping into monk is worth considering. It does require you to do something useful with your wisdom, but the unarmored defense, unarmored movement and martial arts really can add something interesting.
Shadow blade has a worth of at least 1SP no matter how you calculate cost. To buy a scroll of it would cost way more and even the scroll itself and the special ink required to make the scroll would cost more than 1SP. Transcribing it into a spellbook costs more than 1SP and no wizard will let u transcribe from their book for cheap either. There's no way to argue that it doesn't have a worth of cost
Since you mention Multiclassing and some of the draws you mention are light armor I feel I must point out that Bladesingers get Light Armor prof. And prof. In one martial weapon of your choice when you choose that arcane tradition And are far from squishy with Studded Leather they have a minimum AC of 14 while Bladesinging(Assuming +1 to Int and Dex) this becomes a Max of 22 while Bladesinging with 20 in Dex and Int I recently built my own cause I had the idea for one and with basic Leather armor and a +3 from dex his AC sits at 14 while not bladesinging, while Bladesinging that 14 gets a +4 from my int mod becoming an 18 AC which is pretty nuts for a wizard. Also I should mention Bladesinging doesn't work while wearing Medium/Heavy armor or wielding a weapon in two hands so as far as multiclassing goes there's not much benefit other than access to other spell lists.
Been a minute since I made this, so not sure why it's unclear but I'm aware of all of that. To me, the benefit of a Fighter dip is Armor at Levels 1-2 (which makes the playstyle consistent across all Levels), Fighting Style, and CON Saves. Arti is also a great dip for that sort of thing.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons My comment was more to point out for those who don't know much about that Bladesinger considering I basically just learned about the Subclass myself I always knew it existed but I just recently realized how good it is now that it's no longer Elf only.
gift of alacrity is a chronurgy specific spell. the rules and JC do not allow PCs to have these spells on other classes. There is absolutely nothing ambiguous about Haste and its interaction with bladesinger. and especially not in the direction you claim, even stating that 2 cantrips would be RAW. Haste does NOT work with the level 6 bladesinger feature to use a cantrip. Because Haste says: "That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), " A spell (such as a cantrip) is NOT what haste so explicitly states. So its neither RAW, nor RAI, nor ambiguous. I recommend everyone to play back 14:21-14:44 and compare that with what the abilities actually say. Guys keep an eye out for "optimizers" selling you this kinda stuff as raw. Or even recommend to you to inquire this (or DMG Monster creation rules for oversized weapons) with your DM to gain an advantage. Next we will see the rope trick trick being stated as raw. Actual advice: If you consider Haste as a long term concentration spell, take a very deep look at resilient(Con) AND (not or) Warcaster. Do that long before you consider Alert or similar feats :)
I try to discuss any controversy around RAW as I see it, and call out issues of interpreation, RAI, JC tweets, etc... not everyone will agree, to be sure, nor will I always be perfect in that endeavor. A lot of this tech is cheesy, sure... but a lot of it will be allowed at the table. I feel compelled to bring it up, discuss it, and sometimes even disagree with folks about the ambiguity of text.
how do you keep the Greater Demon in check, the risk of having that Demon turn on you is so real I don't understand why it's so OP then. Also you need the humanoid blood every day and it needs to be someone killed recently, how do you find that consistently without being evil?
The Demon is limited in its actions once uncontrolled. It can actually be a good thing, so you can get another Concentration spell out there (even another Demon!). You only need the blood for the protective circle. Otherwise, it lacks a gp cost, so can be cast through a Focus.
at low levels I prefer using my concentration for flaming sphere to combo with booming blade, making them choose between fire or thunder - war caster is nice in that scenario, but usually they are already boomed and don't need another booming blade when they run away, plus I like saving reactions for shield, absorb elements, and counterspell...additionally, if I'm using my bonus action to move my flaming sphere, I won't be dual wielding anyway - so I'm a high elf with elven accuracy and using custom origin I can swap the dex and INT bonuses so I have 18 INT at level 4...and I can customize proficiencies so I can use scimitar, short sword, rapier, and longbow....the 4th proficiency I use for a tool. I use my familiar to get advantage on one attack, or if web would catch a lot of enemies I might use that. I'm surprised you don't mention flaming sphere. Casting a cantrip is the cast action, not an attack action, so you can't cast a cantrip with your extra haste action. I can't get Jeremy Crawford to weigh in on that directly though, he keeps avoiding the question. At 8th level I'm thinking about lucky, war caster, or maybe mobile then I'm maxing INT and then maxing DEX. I saw Treantmonk do war caster and resilient together and that's overkill for just protecting your concentration. As for ranged attacks, I'd rather use a longbow than a cantrip and save the cantrip slot for something with utility. I prefer haste at level 5 and 6 and if you have the mobile feat you can hit and run with the booming blade. 100 feet of movement with haste, bladesong and mobile feat is pretty nuts, you don't even need misty step - though I still want misty step just to be able to teleport through keyholes or on top of a roof or something! Misty step will never be obsolete! As for summoning spells, doing more damage sounds appealing, but I'd rather concentrate on confusion or banishment - or maybe even polymorphing an ally when they get low on health. Banishment is a charisma saving throw so that sounds good but you'd be surprised what has a high charisma - works great on elementals though! I prefer spells that can effect multiple targets though rather than blowing a high level spell slot that does nothing because the thing made its saving throw....anyway that's my rant and rave, thanks for listening if you did
Not gonna lie, been playing D&D for 1 year on 3 campaigns, I find myself a highly competitive mechanic-analytic kind of person, I have a degree, I tend to be intelligent-ish, but the 11 minute slide was beyond my understanding. Missing links or I don't quite know where you jumped to arrive there.
So I try to get haste on my warlocks because casting a 5th level haste spell effects three party members so you can give it to the other party members like the barbarian and fighter
I think that might be homebrew for your table. The haste spell as written doesn’t gain anything from upcasting, sadly. Though I think that’s a pretty good mod, if a bit powerful.
Also - could you teach/show me how to use summon greater demon and why its better than fey? I'm trying to make a very optimized build and learn at the same time.
i think it would be really cool to see your thoughts one playing a cleric or the new star druid. i just recently found your channel and look forward to seeing more.
Up to DM discretion, of course, but Bag of Holding/Genielock Bottled Respite/Demiplane are extradimensional spaces that can be considered to be "not moving" despite the outer dimensional movement.
Concentration spell down first, which for me is often Sleet Storm, which itself is a defensive buff. But otherwise, still concentration first, and use speed (Phantom Steed) to take advantage of cover and such for defense on Round 1.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons yeah I can see why you rate phantom steed so highly. Pooping down a control then zooming off is great. I'll check out your video on sleet storm as it's not one I've used, but I can see it could be great. Kinda like a grease plus fog cloud and forces concentration check
I can’t see this way of being able to cantrip the hasted attack. Im building a bladesinger and hope the DM will rule your way The BS extra attack specifies that in this action you can trade one of these attacks for a cantrip. Unless the general rule is that every booming blade character can use it in the hasted extra action. Which I can’t see either since the spell specifies “an weapon attack only”
Jeremy Crawford I don't think has authorities in terms of RAW or even RAI, it's just his authority on what he likes but the rules are tested and written by more than one person.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons I really appreciate you answering despite how late I am to the video. All I hear is that unlike other wizards is that it's MAD, but no one has been able to define for me where the line is for the bladesinger since it can be so specialized and fragile. I love gesh and with how paladin was handled in 5e I've had little need to try other classes for that style of play. I actually rolled really well with an 18 and some 15s so maybe I'll try out a feat or 2.
Great video! Caught the link on the TM discord and now subbed. Question though I am worried about using sumon greater demon, it seems so likely it will go rogue then it’s just a matter of time till it starts going after the party. What is your advice around this?
Thanks, man... glad to have you on board! I'm working on a Deep Dive into Summon Greater Demon that I'll put out soon, but short answer, they last only 1d6 rounds after you end your concentration on the spell (which you'll presumably do as soon as it breaks control), and they attack the nearest creatures, so if you place it right, it will continue to attack your enemies, and if not, you only have to survive a few rounds before it disappears.
Extra attack on Blade singer does not allow for the Haste attack to be a cantrip because of the wording on the class feature says “one of these attacks”. Haste says “take an additional attack” So you take the attack action with haste and you get one “attack” one “extra attack” (as per Bladesinger) and “additional attack” (as per Haste). Thus you can blade the baddie twice and BB/GFB then once. Honestly pretty clear (IMHO) Also, considering how many creatures have poison defenses I (aka me the poster) would never recommend Poisoner as a feat for a BS. Remember you only get 5 asi. So when you have only one (or 2) left that one has to be very impactful and considering poison is very often resisted in the game one should avoid them. Better choices are Piercer (giving you better crits and low damage Insurance), Fey Touched (misty step and you can add Hex/hunters mark/Bless - though Fey Teleportation also is viable) or Telekinetic (bonus action to force an opponent to disengage by reach or attack vulnerable targets). Also, JC did say in a dragon talk that the rule in the book was intended but at his table he plays it differently. (If you have ever seen him at an AI game you can see how rules light he can be). Interesting look at the class though.
I'm not such a fan of Poisoner Feat either, but some offensive-minded viewers have brought it up with me, and I can see the attraction if you're selling out for DPR. The fact that you can bypass Poison Resistance makes it better, I think. Regarding Haste, it allows you an extra Attack Action and the Bladesinger can substitute a Cantrip when taking the Attack action. Also very clear to me IMO (as a philosopher who is a fan of Wittgenstein, these language discussions are always so fascinating!), so definitely something to talk to your DM about. Thanks for the info about JC and RAI. Weird and interesting, lol.
I'm not sure this is the correct reading of Haste - my justification: Extra Attack (6th-level Bladesinging feature): You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks. Haste: ...and it gains an additional action on each of its turns. That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action. So, it is clear that you are getting an additional Attack action, but the Haste spell specifically limits the Attack action it grants to "one weapon attack only". Specific beats general per the ruleset, so we now need to decide whether the specific limitation imposed on the incremental Attack action precludes substitution of a cantrip that incorporates a weapon attack. It is also clear that the cantrips that incorporate a weapon attack involve more than one weapon attack. Both BB and GFB require that you "brandish the weapon used in the spell's casting" and have somatic components. Given this condition, I'd argue that this causes the substitution to fail, as the specific limitation is to "one weapon attack only" while the casting of BB / GFB require more than "one weapon attack". Granted, you might also read the Haste restriction as simply limiting the number of weapon swings and not limiting excess effort beyond the single weapon swing, but it very much seems to me that the designer's intent here is to restrict you to a vanilla meat-space operation of a weapon.
Although I came across this interesting interaction myself, pg 202 in phb under Chapter 10 - spellcasting prevents this interaction by limiting the amount if spellcasting by action under casting time. You can’t cast another spell unless 1 is a bonus action or 1 is an action. So until the errata interaction specifically calls this an exception, you would have to turn to this rule.
@@markalaporta Sorry for the long delay but I did not see this. (Phone shows me thumbs up and hearts but not follow on comments).The haste spell gives you effectively a new sub-action on your turn. I don’t know if we are on the same page but let me run a quick snarky scenario. Last turn, you used bonus action to activate Blade song and cast haste because the BBEG needs the death “status” applied to him. He tried to hit you but he failed (Ac21+ does that). You know you have one turn to take him out and you start by taking an attack option as a blade singer. You attack once with rapier and then use your BS ability to cast Booming blade and as part of that cantrip/spell you take an attack. And your good boi dice let you hit both times but stubborn BBEG is still standing but bloodied. Then you use a haste action- I choose to attack with that haste option instead of disengage. Now I hit him again. Now after hitting him three times I use my Telekinetic ability to push the guy back and I move using my standard movement to fall back 40 feet and wait for the bang! Looking at it as actions there was a Bladesinger attack(which includes a cantrip as the class allows), haste action (I choose the attack), bonus action using the TK feat and ending on standard movements (boosted 10 feet by the bladesong) - resulting in three attacks and a boom status. Technically if I had proper weapons could have attacked 4 times as the bonus action could be an off hand attack) with the boom if he moves. (Note: you would not need the boom because he does not have to re-engage and only if he was fearing his lose of life would move to be boomed) I think we are in agreement, yes?
@@zombieninjapitbull3856 Since you can't have a shield while doing your Bladesong, Mage Armor is your most effective option until you get +1 Studded Leather, which has the same AC. But how often do you see +1 Studded Leather? You could probably buy it somewhere. But Mage Armor costs anywhere from nothing to a 1st level spell slot for 8 hours of non-concentration protection. Save your gold for a better magic weapon, or the Bracers of Defense, which stack with Mage Armor and Bladesong, but not with real armor. If you wanted to stick to more Wizardly pursuits, you could take Magic Initiate instead, since one free casting is generally all you'll need during an adventuring day. But chances are you've already taken the cantrips you want most, so I'd consider the two fairly interchangeable.
This is a waste of a feat for a spell you have and an extra 1 to AC. There’s a TON of way better options… even fey touched for misty step + mage armor and +1 to INT.. (btw mage armor lasts for 8 hours, you rarely need more than 1 per day)
I don't see that as a good investment, when you can't stack on Agonizing Blast or other Invocations. It basically would just upgrade the damage type of your Attack Cantrip, so I'd probably go in a different direction.
Can't blow it up with a single Fireball, for starters. Can produce many more effects than straight damage, for another (e.g. Babau - Dispel Magic, Darkness, Levitate, Heat Metal, Fear at will; Dybbuk - Dimension Door at will; Chasme - Drone effect + 11d6 Probscis attack that lowers HP max). That said, Animate Objects was on my suggested progession list because I think of it as a Summon, and it's a very good Summon that one may legitimately choose at those levels instead of SGD.
Really miss Duskblade's Channel Spell ability.. Uhgg. Why can't arcane casters smite huh? My biggest gripe with BS is they're need to max 2 stats, with Con coming in close 3rd. I tend to start Artificer Battle Smith 3, cap Dex @16 and focusing on Int as my attack stat. I like feats..
I started as an Enchanter but that didn't work too well in the Underdark, so I just switched to Chronurgy. I think those two are good, and War. Nothing wrong with Bladesong or Conjuration. Meh on the others. Transmuters, Evokers, Graviturgists, and Order of Scribes are probably the worst.
@@lorenzomercuriali2891 I had to start with 2 Cleric Levels (all-Cleric campaign) and then switched to wizard. It's cool, and I think dipping on a wizard for armor and such makes a lot of sense. My next Wizard will probably start with a level of Artificer.
Howdy Bilbron!! Any chance to get the write-up for this build - i love it. Also, Wrote to you a bit ago about play by post. Are you still interested? How should I send you information?
I just changed the description to include the show notes! Thanks for pointing this out... this is one of my most popular videos, but the description was still an old/inferior style. Very happy to update it with the Notes and proper promo info! You can hit me up via email: maxpot46@gmail.com
Great video, if i don't wanna use summon greater demon for taste preferences only lol, how big would it be summon fey or keep shadow blade DPS loss, any advice on another spell
Tasha's Summons are suitable, albeit less powerful, options, I think (my own DM bans SGD). Keeping Shadowblade is a strong option (and I could totally see it as a RP choice if you don't care to Summon) but Summon Fey is better.
Here's a question for you. How do you feel about adding in a few Monk levels to say unlock path of the Kinsei for a bladesinger? With standard array you can have decent stats, use racial bonuses to beef up your intelligece, then you could use your dexterity with a longsword and have your bonus action available for an unarmed strike? The thought hit me last night and I started goofing off with the idea in DnD beyond, but I didn't get too far into it. Edit: You're right about summons, the monk levels were an idea for a more martial focused Blade singer.
I'd have to look at the final build, but as a first reaction, I don't love it. I'm not a fan of selling out for DPR as opposed to maintaining full wizard functionality.
Am I just wrong on this or are you missing a total of 2d8 from shadowblade on that list? When cast at third level it should deal 3d8, not 2d8 as listed.
Starting with 2 levels of Paladin (to get more HP and smites) then going BS rest of the way is the most DPR of any character. Adding smites to your attacks with your spell slots can obliterate an enemy in one round. Doing this gives you a 9th level spoll slot at level 18 to upcast with and then access to 9th level spells at 19. This build is best for longer campaigns to gain the best benefits (to level 7 at least so you can add Haste).
Personally if you wanna go old school only elves should be bladesingers. I also think letting other races being bladesingers the experience of playing one. Especially if you go read the 2nd ed elven hand book. No way in heck are non elves learning this style of martial art. Yes martial folks because they were originally a fighter / mage multi class that completely over balanced the game in 2nd edition. So sticking with thematically base characters human variations or other races is certainly a no go. But if your a power gamer and just wanna power game then to each their own. Good video.
That's a pretty solid take! I haven't done a Deep Dive into sorcerers, but I've always felt like they were wizard step-kids even back in the day, and a shallow overview of them isn't knocking my socks off.
I watch all your videos on my phone, and I cannot read what you “put on your screen”. It might be more appealing for many of your viewers if you read aloud what you have written. You could also attach links to documents, which you have done on other videos.
fire shield is a terrible pick for a Bladesinger. The whole idea for a BS is to NOT get hit. The AC, mobility and spell selection all point towards this. YOu simply will not be hit enough to make the use of a 4th level spell and an action to cast worth it. d6 hit die. If you're getting good use out of fire shield, you are getting hit waaaaaaaay too often as a Bladesinger, and your long Elf life will be cut very short.
I find myself not using bladesong that much. I find that it limits my weapon and armor choices. It doesnt add anything that cant be replicated in some other form nor does it increase dpr aside from the increased movement. I also find that my bonus action is spoken for early in combat so there's not really a time to cast bladesong. Agreed that twf is undersirable due to thr bonus action clog. Even if i'm not using twf, bladesong and as an offensive minded player, i'm already using my bonus action for magic stone + tiny servant, Misty step, spirit shroud, etc without even considering the bonus actions of the classes i multiclass to. Twf just adds to the clog. Agreed on haste action being convertible to booming blade RAW.
That means with max dexterity and mage armor you would have 30 armor class making you exceedingly hard to hit and you still deal good damage plus if you’re party is taking short rests you can just keep using your blade song without worrying
I don't find it very well to just post things on the screen for people to look at instead of you narrating them because I was actually playing a game while listening so I missed most of it :p
Okay, not bad not bad. However you guys do realize that TWF (Two Weapon Fighting) DON'T WORK FOR BLADESINGERS!!! Bladesong only works with one handed weapons and nothing in the other hand ✋. It's in the class.
"It ends early if you are incapacitated, if you don medium or heavy armor or a shield, or if you use two hands to make an attack with a weapon." Reads to me like TWF is fine, you just can't sword & board or use a two-hander.
