Origins of the Shuffle Groove 

Eric Arway it really is incredible to watch the truly talented drummer I play the drums but I am not a drummer These videos on utube are inspirational

Is he sure it's the sound of a train. It sounded like a galloping horse to me.

It's relatively easy to be a good drummer...yet crazy talent to be an amazing drummer!

if you have average musicians BUT A GREAT DRUMMER, the drumming will put the song over the top of excellence!!!!!!,,,,,,,,,if you have exceptional musicians but a below average drummer,the song will be a disaster!!!!!!

should watch some drum solos. one of my favs is moby dick by bonham

You nailed it. Seeing people at the pinnacle of their craft is very attractive. I don't care if it's a girl with 12 Hula Hoops going or a 90 year old man pick up a guitar in a Guitar Center and just kill it. If it's the best, then I am all in.

Pls watch me in 40 years..

I feel the same way my friend

Chris Williams same 😁

Chris Williams: Same here. It's an appreciation of the skills, like watching a good wood-turner or a metal worker restore some rusty old junk.

Lmao 😂

A paraplegic could replace tommy lee

...and grows a big ten inch...

@@hectorsanaifric343 Aw, man. He did groove. I just hated Krewe...

Reminds me of the trad band I used to go and see - the drummer would keep the beat going while supping his Guinness =oD

4:55 he mentioned it I believe

Actually drums were the first form of telecommunications. They could signal from one village to the other. That goes back thousands of years.

Drums were used in the military for many centuries before the American Civil war. I don't know why he chose that war to begin that topic. Perhaps he is just using it as a beginning spot for the development of jazz.

@@johnmorrison9758 it is to accommodate the US audience. Their history goes only as far back as that 😉

@@johnmorrison9758 I'm sure it was in the Napoleonic wars.

i came back to life when i seen him on this video jeff was so good doing shuffle groves

Leandro, you should check out Leland Sklar's channel. He does a video about Jeff and also has other drummers giving their thoughts and memories of Jeff Porcaro.

Check out the trap set podcast. He does a 2 part interview with Bernard

Purdie can shuffle in his sleep. One of the best ever.

Carlock has a great feel on that as well. Not the same, but damn when I saw them live.

I remember hearing a myth that Bernard Purdie dubbed Ringos drumming a couple of times

I love how when walter is trying to explain Bernard's shuffle he's literally caught off guard by it, and unable to really finish his thoughts, because of that hypnotic groove

That's the thing about that band it swings. Other heavy bands forgot to swing...or just didn't swing. Into the Void is well... almost funky. Bill freaking Ward.Incredible.

Not to bring in "Wicked World". Always thought that would sound dope in a big band arrangement. 8)

I'm glad you mentioned these two homeboys; like me they're both from Birmingham, and are very underrated.

Yeah I always thought of them as a dark sounding jazz rhythm section, them boys was heavy in the pocket!!!

Bonham was the essence of heavy, but did play with that swing. It's what made him an un- usually great rock drummer. The swing makes everything sit just a touch behind the beat, where jazz and blues meet.

And now we have to put up with Rick Nielsen's kid, who is OK, but not even on the same planet as Bun E. Carlos

Oh man, he's SO good. Overlooked for sure. We wouldn't need drum machines if we would learn to groove.

@@cary67 - Nailed it!

Ritchie was one of a kind and a great human He is my drum hero

😮 Little Feat was exactly what I was thinking when I read the vid title.

Thanks for shouting out Ritchie. I could listen and watch him all day. That band is the Dickety Dank Schizel Whizel.

Yes yes yes....

Ritchie was undeniably one of those drummers in the magical “no one else can play that way” fraternity. No one else can play Over The Hills And Far Away, The Crunge or Misty Mountain Hop like Bonham. Only John Bonham can do that. No one else can play Chuck E’s In Love, Late In The Evening or I Can’t Run But like Gadd. Jim Keltner on Memphis In The Meantime, Michael Shrieve on Incident At Neshabur or Love, Devotion and Surrender, Jon Fishman on The Wedge or Llama, Jamie Oldaker on I Shot The Sheriff or The Core, or Ritchie Hayward on Dixie Chicken or Hate To Lose Your Lovin’. And so on...so many unique voices on the drums that no one can duplicate. Oh my, Nigel Olsson from Elton John’s band, or Bob Siebenberg from Supertramp. These guys are untouchable...

And The Jim Chapin books.

Doc Will GF?! Marry that woman!

Ahma 'splain t'yuh

Uh, ain’t nothin but rebound _with control._ A rebound without control sounds like phdfhfhfhfhfhffhf (ie, not good). :)

In one of Jeffs clinics he joked that the ghost notes were nerves!

I love the Bernard Purdie videos.

PURDIE! 👍👍

That's the RU-vid algorithm for ya

Ibe Kerkhoven yep, Beato put Jeff Pocaro in his video listing.

Saaaaaame

Funny, I had the same experience. I had watched the Porcaroa video ages ago and it popped back into my recommended videos yesterday. I suspect either this video was uploaded a couple days ago for release today and the yt algorithms recognized the clip and set about updating recommendations based on it or Rick watched it recently and that caused the Porcaro video to be pushed back up

I searched for Porcaros video it didnt pop up in my reccomendations

Agree. It is the first channel I access on YT each day, and if no new content, Rhett Schull is next...👍🎶🎵🎼

👏🏿💯👏🏿💯 Correct , the 'shuffle' is an African polyrhythm concept that predates Trains hundreds of years🥁❕

@@davidwicks9538 yes Thank you I was just thinking this as the video was running .i was told by a drummer that all drum figures are built and fit inside what is known as a twelve eight Clave which originates from Africa. All the rhythms of any combination fit inside this Clave .

*THIS* 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

And that's why this leftie plays guitar right handed. That, and it's easier to find guitars!

That and Purdie filled in for him in the studio...now fight!

@@NuncNuncNuncNunc 😂

Lefties were encouraged in the States, also. My mother believed she was a leftie and had to use her right hand. At age 9, she broke her right arm and immediately, could write and do other things with her left. She and her twin were adopted at age 4 and she came to my gma and gpa using her right. We met her bio mother decades later and she confirmed that Mom was a leftie and they "stopped" her.

NuncNuncNuncNunc I love Purdie, but he's batshit crazy and he certainly remembers things that never happened... the man's a legend, though...

wow, never noticed. thanks for pointing out, it really makes a difference

RIP Jeff Porcaro. I watched him explain the Rosanna Shuffle SO MANY TIMES! I can... sorta... do it, but man, he was amazing. Luke Tweeted about him a few weeks back. Gone, but not forgotten.

Noticed that as well

guillermo is 100% correct!!!!!

Exactly Guillermo! Also, everyone says (even Jeff) it's the Bo Diddley beat but then anticipate the fourth hit. Even Jeff!!! 🤦🏻‍♂️ Those five hits on the bass drum are almost the Bo Diddley beat (the 3:2 son clave), except for the fourth hit 🤷🏻‍♂️

Thanks!!!

@@RickBeato You are very welcome! Have a great weekend!

Probe Raum billy Joel, “don’t ask me why” :)

Lenny White

So much of classic American music (blues and jazz, plus their successors) is based on the same thing: Calling the train. Slide guitar? Just the train's whistle. Blues shuffle? Train's rhythm. Swung beats? From the train. Hell, most classic harmonica songs are "Call the Train"-style songs.

Little Richard has talked about the sound of trains coming through Macon, Ga as a inspiration...The origins of the rock & roll beats...Sex would be another, of course. There are lots of shuffle beats from super simple to very complex. I enjoyed this video!

That's because it DIDN'T.

@@jazzbecausejazz No? What's the origin then? And why does he say that in the video? It seems I'll have to research

Not just trains,,,it's why I included sex..."Beats" Not "beat". I'd say a train is more of a straight rock beat than a shuffle. Another thing also going back long before trains would be how a triplet, that was & maybe still is, used in some African indigenous groups along with possibly chants that would repeat for many hours hypnotically, which I've read is where the triplet ride cymbal pattern in jazz came from. Lota cool rhythms from Africa, of course.

*THANK* *YOU* 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

Big truth... Descendants of Europe talking about the origins of nearly anything is generally a red flag :)

I agree, so many famous drum patterns come from old African basic beats, idk why. Like salsa, reggaeton, merengue and many others. And what all have in common is the dance, fresh moving soul. Muy picante el sonido!

Word. Maybe even older than several hundred.

@@weslypype1 Hahahaha, you've never looked into traditional Scottish and Irish music. Touche for the mutual ignorance, my friend.

The 'shuffle' rhythm does Not "come" from imitating a Train or Jeff Pacaro! When they isolate the parts it's obvious where it comes from🥁!!

Um, it’s about drumming

go on netflix theres a gret doc abut Q

Sure guys thanks for pointing me to the sources you mentioned.

"Quincy" ca. 2018. Looks like Rashida is a director. Shout-out to +LèPolisher +TheRealCritique for the 411!

TheRealCritique Clarence Avant, "The Black Godfather" 2019 👍🏽👍🏼👍🏻

12/8 is very common in western African rhythms (and by extension also Cuban rhythms) but a triplet feel or a 6/8 or 12/8 feel is not exactly the same thing as the shuffle. Of course, if you're used to playing in 12/8 a lot, shuffle is something that comes more naturally to you, but it is quite possible trains played a role. Obviously I don't know all African rhythms or even west African rhythms but the particular shuffle feel is not something you hear in traditional Afro-cuban music so I'd be surprised if you could hear in traditional west African music (I don't know east or south African music at all....except for a little bit of Angolan music)

Simplest way to explain a shuffle in theory terms: an 8th note triplet without the middle 8th note. Or a dotted 1/4 plus an 8th note. But it's all feel, not theory.

i think what he meant to say was that's how it developed in America, where blues emerged.

Thank you for this comment.There are a lot of nice feels from different eras predating "trains" - that fed into what's condensed at the top of this video. I cld be wrong (sorry Rick!) I think. Hearing this origin story "trains" repeated going forward... maybe is like reading Real Book charts instead of listening, for people beginning.They give you an idea, but really want you to listen. But i think of American dancing and the music with it pre-40's (when to me the in-between (commerciall eight to the bar, two-step feels, pre-tap) are a different continuum. Is the "train" beat idea ties to the stories coming out of RnB, rock n roll, influence of record making, etc. I think the sound in a room isn't always translated to vinyl (!), and what's exciting in recorded music is groove-oriented. These men are good musicians, they've lived it, and their enthusiasm driving their mastery is what I choose to takeaway. Here they provide a gateway, condensed, I think the drummer (and Rick) prob knows more, but situates the takeaways in a way contemporary internet surfers can explore if they want to go deeper. They serve their audience ...apologies, don's mean to offend, not sure how to phrase what I'm trying to imply better. And, unfortunately, african based music is fading in a way, to new african american innovations. A really nice channel and important resource. I do have some "cognitive dissonance" with the framing of the shuffle too, I think if peoples' ears and developmental stage don't draw them toward more depth, it's OK, it takes a while to hear things. Knowing where to look makes a difference. They got it to 12 minutes, with examples, and can follow up if there is interest. Thanks, apologies for any offense and misspeaking due to my ignorance.

I thought the same thing. Though trotting is a two beat pace... The gaited pace of the apaloosa horse is referred to as the shuffle. I read somewhere that it dates back to 1680's where pueblo indians revolted against the spanish and took their horses.. Makes more sense to me than trains, anyway.

@@princeofcupspoc9073 don’t disrespect bonzo like that. He is a god and better than both ringo and moon

@@webstercat so true

id think the paradiddle is a rudiment and not a groove

however you can have grooves that are based on a paradiddle rhythm, so in that sense, i guess it would make sense

@@trobin Maybe, but it's still fundamental to drumming as a whole

@@trobin ahh indeed

RC32 close to the edge by yes comes to mind when i think of paradiddle grooves, it’s phenomenal drumming by the great bill bruford

staying at my grandparents house in small town Texas, the sound of the trains at night was always comforting. Another sound that had to have an impact on humans connection to rhythm is a horse galloping, or trotting or walking ...really distinct patterns. Also a frog pond at night, it's the mother of all poly-rhythms. cicadas were like an organ screech, the natural world gives a lot of rhythms Back in the big city, it was the concrete segments on streets and freeways. riding a bike on a sidewalk, a washer spinning, dryer tumbling - with the zippers clanging in and out of time.

Good point... could have originated from either/both?

Trains were called the iron horse. Closely connected here.

It’s a mimic of the sound of rail joints, which no one really hears anymore on commuter or intercity trains because of welded rails. But... jointed rails were 33 foot sections of rail and offset about midway which is the sound that is being mimicked about 25+ MPH.

He's got two coconuts and he's banging them together