We flew IFR to EAA AirVenture 2023 and it was a hot mess! 90+ degree heat, no shade, long lines for just about everything and the departure rush to leave was a mess while spending thousands for the privilege. Can't wait for next year!
AirVenture 2023 was my 3rd year volunteering marshalling/parking in the South 40. The S40 first opened in 2019 with the goal of "no plane turned away", since previously some people would have to get sent to Fond du Lac or Appleton because the grounds were just full. I haven't heard any final numbers, but I'd guess we parked 500+ aircraft just in our area. When I was was parking earlier in the week I asked several pilots how the taxi was and was told in the 10-20 min range. We know that people have just gone through some long flights, a little chaos at Fisk, long taxis, hot weather, storms, planes landing on the wrong runway, even a little mud...different issues every year but all the things that make Oshkosh "Oshkosh". But we're always glad to see everyone arrive safely and hope despite any issues everyone has a great time at our little fly-in and airshow. I grew up 20 minutes from Oshkosh and started going to the airshow back in the 1980s as a kid, inspired me to take my first flying lesson before I had a drivers license, and I'm still amazed at the size of it. I know it might be a boring video, but watching unedited taxiing videos gives us an idea of what it's like getting into the grounds and just might show us opportunities to do better. Hopefully you enjoyed your visit to Oshkosh and I hope we'll see you again in the future!
We’ll be back for sure! Really appreciate all that the volunteers do. If it helps the cause, I’m happy to upload the full arrival and taxi video before I delete the raw video forever.
We came in Thursday, spent over 2 hrs in the Fisk approach after a 2 hr flight to get there. We also ended up in the S40....again. We we taxied to our camping site the line of planes awaiting to depart extended all the way to the south gate of the S40!
Great video. We were in the South 40. Was looking for my bird. When did you leave? Indeed it was a hot one!! And wow the storms!! During the day thunderstorm we climbed aboard the plane and watched a movie with our morning breakfast. Fun trip though, even with the hot weather. Hope to go again next year.
I think we left on Thursday evening if I remember correctly. Three days and two nights was plenty. I don’t think we had a day time storm except for the early am one on Wednesday. We’re tentatively planning to go again next year.
It was nice talking with you guys even throughout the chaos trying to leave Oshkosh that day. glad it ended up working out that we all could leave after waiting for so long that day! hope you had a safe trip home! We were in the T Tailed Arrow in front of you guys.
Thanks for sharing. I'm a local from Neenah, WI that likes watching youtube videos of pilots arriving at EAA. Went out on Saturday to show a co worker where the Fisk Approach Control is located but shut down right when we got there because of a thunderstorm. He went back on Sunday morning and it was very busy. He was hoping to talk to one of the ATC's but one of the ATC was there first time at EAA and everyone was working. I was hoping to go back to Fisk later in the week and maybe a ride down Highway 44 to Ripon to watch the conga line while driving but never made it.
If your interested and there's a way to get close to the enterance of EAA I can give you a ride to see the Fisk approach control. Watch ATC's in action, talk to ATC super if not to busy and other pilots that check out Fisk. @@ChaseAviation
I flew in on Wednesday evening in my Cessna 140. All the holds were full, ended up circling south of Puckaway lake for half an hour or more before things opened up. Landed just before the airport closed. That was probably the 10th time I’ve flown in for the air show and it just seems to get worse every year. Last two trips I ended up in the south 40. This year I got lucky when one of the walkers pulled me out of line and got me into a spot just north of the ultralight field in vintage camping. Departed Friday AM and didn’t have to wait long. I’ve made the 40 minute taxi a few times and it sucks. Forget me cooking in the cockpit….worried more about my airplane overhearing. Good video. That call for a mid field right downwind with you coming in from the east was really confusing! I couldn’t figure out what was going on. Glad it got sorted out before you ended up flying against the VFR traffic from the west landing on 27 😳
I’m glad you and others agree. I’d seriously considered whether I was just having a brain fart and that a midfield, right downwind made any darn sense. And of course with the added pressure of keeping communications to a minimum while simultaneously knowing their instructions would bring me head on with opposing traffic. I’ve heard war stories of this years Fisk arrival and in complete honesty, I think we had it EASY.
Great video showing the good and the bad of flying into OSH, definitely stressful situation for the ATC and pilots getting all those aircraft types with different approach speeds safely down on the ground. Thanks for the great video
You got in about the same time as my crew and IFR and left about the same time (3hr taxi for departure) on Thursday morning... virtually identical experience. They need a reservation system!
I spent most of Thursday afternoon stewing about how they could make this better. The reservation system (like we had for IFR) was pretty terrific, but could you imagine expecting 10,000 of those inbounds? But maybe just a “we’re coming in on Tuesday and leaving on Thursday” block, or something.
@@ChaseAviation 10k's are exactly what a reservation system is good at. At least then we don't have planes idling for hours or worse circling around a lake
EAA/GES (the event company) can't even supply more than one sign for the Uber and Lyft lots and have not asked them to restrict the pickup areas. While I think the reservation system would be good in theory, It would just be a hot mess there. This year was my year to supply the signs for gate 34.
I'm not trying to flame/troll, I honestly want to have a proper conversation about this. Did you read the notice and try to understand what needs to happen there? Because your approach and landing could've impeded two more landing aircraft. You approached like you were going to land on the orange dot, then dragged it with power to the green. That forced the guy behind you, who was cleared on the orange, to stay high and compromised his approach. You'd need to pretend the portion between the orange and green dots doesn't exist and aim for the green as a landing point. It almost felt like you didn't know the runway dot configuration. Once on the ground, I see no real attempt to brake the aircraft, instead you keep rolling past the white dot, which is where the next guy would be directed to land. The reason he wanted you to exit on the grass to the right is so you wouldn't impede the next guy. Didn't hear anyone being cleared for the white, but if there had been one aircraft aiming for it, they would've had to go around. Not nice. A good recommendation is to have the PAX in the right seat have a copy of the AirVenture Notice, so you can quickly refer to it if the arrival doesn't make sense. The "Prison" waypoint is PRIMO, the IAF for the RNAV 27 approach. Explained on page 27 of the Notice, appropriately titled "IFR Arrival Route Planning". Please try to do a better job complying with 14 CFR § 91.103 next time.
This is a point coming from a non-aviator. Having watched several videos featuring Oshkosh traffic operations, and comparing these to videos on ATC at regular airports, regardless of directives it seems to me that the Oshkosh system is so different that it’s an invitation to disaster. I dunno, maybe a requirement that all new pilots flying in must complete simulator training? This guy was a newbie, and seemed like he was processing a lot more than he should have to.
Totally fine with the question. But you should watch the video again. I was on the RNAV 27, just passed PRIMO, which is what I reported when contacting tower. As you know, this was an IFR arrival. We’re expected to acknowledge transmissions from tower. And, it’s a hard habit to break anyway, especially when essentially in IMC conditions out over the lake. I had the OSH NOTAM printed (it was in the window behind the GAC sign). I also had in on my iPad and studied it in great detail prior. Page 27 as you noted is the applicable section for IFR arrivals. Initially, I was simply cleared to land on 27. That changed, then was given green. Video may not show depth properly but I nailed that sucker. Cirrus’s don’t stop real fast and their brakes overheat quickly and require differential braking to steer. If anything, I “turned right when able” as requested, sooner than I should have. I appreciate the feedback and glad you watched. Keep me on my toes, Sir!
Interesting how much people think they can tell about reality from a heavily edited video. I like what you are doing. Good crew resource management and nice radios. I thought you dealt with the incorrect runway arrival instruction really well - calmly worked your way through it without getting flustered and flew the plane. That said I have no desire to ever fly into this thing. RU-vid shows pretty well what a dog's breakfast it is and there is no reason to go there that I can see. Enjoyed this vid.
@@mikecamrcplus3057 yeah I stand by what I said. If you need to memorize a whole encyclopedia just to get into the place, maybe reevaluate why you need to go there to get your plane hailed on while you sleep in a soggy field. I certainly won't be doing it, unless I happen to be driving by some year. Better camping elsewhere with much less congested airspace and no random idiosyncratic approach and landing BS to deal with. EAA sold its soul long ago.
Pretty cool when you start to watch a you tube video about Oshkosh and all of a sudden find out they live in my town. Hi guys! I flew my new RV 9A to the show for the first time this year. I'm hangared at Brokenstraw airport. We also flew over Lake Michigan on the way back. We did the Chicago shoreline on the way there.
Ha! How bout that. Small world. I’ve always admired Brokenstraw from above but never landed there. If you’re ever find yourself in need of overpriced fuel and stop at JHW, we’re in the terminal building.
@@ChaseAviation I parked my plane at JHW last Wednesday night because I got back to town late and didn't want to try to land at brokenstraw in the dark. Way too many deer there. I was shocked what they charged me for an overnight tie down. Never again!!! My fuel price at brokenstraw is over a dollar cheaper than JHW too. Seems like they're catering to the jet crowd.
Yeah if you would have waited until Sunday or Saturday to leave It would have been a lot more relaxed. Like what I heard from other passengers that there's two air shows. The corporate people show up the first half and then the enthusiasts stay for the second, The halfes separated by the night show
Great video, and yes, the 'right downwind' had me confused as well. Made me question how they handle IFR approaches. Glad the controller figured it out the mistake and adjusted. I am sure they are smarter than me, but maybe a separate freq for IFR, or require IFR inbounds to announce "IFR Cirrus XXXX on RNAV 27R"? BTW, I also have a G2 but with AC. Being in Houston, (and me being a wimp!!), I consider the AC required equipment most months. We flew Wednesday and it was 102 outside, but very comfortable inside the plane. Truly a game changer but sooooo spoiled now!
I agree. It’s like tower never got the info passed down to them that we were an IFR arrival, despite me announcing that we were PRIMO inbound on the RNAV 27. And, by the way, we had a specific IFR reservation attached to our flight plan. The field was marginal VFR at best with barely three miles vis.
Very jealous of your AC. Our B-Kool unit is awesome and best part is, we pull it out all winter and get the useful load back. But it’s just one more thing to have to deal with and think about before every flight.
Love your videos. This was a good one as well. Can y’all do a PIREP on the B-Cool? Do you use ice or ice packs? Does it just knock the heat down, or actually make it comfy in the cockpit?
Yes, I need to do a PIREP review video. I freeze a few half gallon water bottles solid, then add water to the cooler and, if I have it, as much ice as it will fit. You can do all ice, but it melts quickly with the heat exchanger. Conversely, the solid ice can’t cool the water fast enough on hot days so it’s less effective on its own. It’s mildly impractical but it does work well. It’s NOT as good as real AC, but doesn’t cost $25,000 every time it breaks like real AC either!
@@in2flying I have the JetShades windshield “eyebrow” and love it. Probably will do the rest and some point, they’re just darn expensive and don’t make the plane go any faster.
@@louisb6543That would be awesome! You can email them to the company address: aircraftsales@chaseaviation.com. Or message me on Instagram and send that way. My handle is @fly.guy.bri
We've been going to Oshkosh for many years and this is the hottest the weather has been in our time there. There have been some hotter days but never the entire week being so uncomfortable. Enjoyed your video. Note: That wasn't the Heritage Flight, that was the Legacy Flight (Navy)
I’ve never been to a concert that was supposed to end at 11am but they forced us to stay until 6pm. Have you? I do own it… I literally made a video out of it!
Great video - well captured, edited and narrated. I can appreciate your frustration with the taxi on arrival, but no allowance is made for the ultimate destination on the grounds when allocating runway. To keep traffic moving it's sometimes necessary to take aircraft from one side of the runway to the other. That demands a fairly long taxi. Your excellent GAC sign would have helped reduce the time taken - delighted you're not deterred and will be back.
Yes, I would never buy a $1,000,000+ aircraft that did not have AC. There’s like a 55lb weight penalty for adding it, but the newer Cirrus’s have a 200lb higher gross takeoff weight than mine too.
@@ChaseAviation At least you weren’t cut off by a loser like Aviation 101 was on his trip in! Josh & Chelsea had to go around due to a blown tire & ground loop by yet another pilot who had to get towed off. I’ve only landed there on a computer sim at our state fair. Landed on the numbers, & the guy running the sim was so excited that I did better than the actual pilot sitting to my left.
He is not. We have a unit that meets in the same building as my office and he’s been invited, but so far he’s not been interested. I think he gets enough aviation in his daily life. But I will pass this info on to him. Appreciate you sharing.
How is this possible? Frequently, patterns are righthand (you always make right turns). Entering the pattern midfield on the downwind leg after reporting when a mile out is a very common instruction. Even if you've never heard of a downwind leg, it shouldn't be hard to figure out since you need to land upwind. E.g., if you are landing on runway 9 the right downwind leg will be on a heading of 270 degrees (90 + 180) with the runway on your right.
Well, I was heading 270 degrees and being asked to enter a midfield downwind which would have required I somehow execute a 180 degree turn, north of the field into oncoming, opposite direction traffic. As the captions state, I know what a midfield downwind is, it just makes no sense to execute one from that position. For whatever it’s worth even though it’s irrelevant to this situation, standard traffic patterns are left hand turns. The downwind for 27 is non-standard right turns.
Yep, Mustang. They were on sale when we needed them (that never happens!) for our Bahamas run. Very comfortable, little warm. Starts chaffing around the neckline after a while though.
@@ChaseAviation are they ok with the co2 cartridge, I am not turbo so would never be above 15,000, nice video, yeah I’ve gone in on 27 before and the original direction from atc would have really confused me.
I never looked at the actual temp once I arrived but it was definitely over 90. Wed was forecast to be over 95 but you’re right, they revised it down. I think after the storm. I think people may be thinking that a “hot mess” is actually a bad thing… we’ll be back next year for sure. But not GAC.
@@ChaseAviation I was there Mon-Wed, and watching the weather like a hawk. Mind you, 90+F weather in a WI summer is completely normal and always has been. I spent much of my childhood growing up in WI. On Sunday, the forecast for Wed was 94-95. On Tues morning it had already been revised to 91F, and on Wed morning it was revised to 89F, and it never broke 87F the entire day on Wed. It was about 85F tops on Tues. Also the morning thunderstorm Wed, at 7am the forecast was for rain all day until at least 4-5pm. the rain was completely done by 8am, and was barely sprinkling at 7-7:30am. It didn't rain a drop after 8am and skies cleared up as the day went on. The forecasts are never right anymore. Local farmers trust me for 24-48hr forecasts more than they do daily forecasts because I'm right more often. They are lucky if they can get it right 3hrs out anymore. I can predict the weather more accurately using my knowledge and experience as a pilot. They were drumming up climate change nonsense all week about a "heat wave", so I was watching the forecasts vs dailies like a hawk, and as expected I wasn't disappointed. On Saturday, I wasn't at the airshow anymore, was back home and went to another outdoor event, and news was still talking about a heat wave in the US. And people we're talking about how insanely hot it was that day, and acting out the "heat wave". And I pulled out the thermometer and showed them it was only 78F. They felt hot because the news told them it was hot, not because it actually was hot. People are so blissfully ignorant these days. When I was growing up, almost no one had any air conditioning. Nowadays everyone has it, and they fail to adapt to changes in temp now, and they have forgotten what it is actually like outside.
The 45 minute taxi after landing, the 6 hour delay prior to departure, the 45 minute taxi once we were able to leave. I didn’t get video of the tram or bus situation or wait lines.
I had someone tell me about that “unpublished arrival” recently. You’re right, it’s not mentioned in the NOTAM, not a visual checkpoint and a prison isn’t even denoted on the VFR chart. The IAF on the RNAV 27 is PRIMO and the FAF is PEENA. No more P’s please! 😂
Yup, Oshkosh is the busiest airport in the world during Air Venture. Several planes landing simultaneously on the same runway makes for a white knuckle experience for first timers. Pucker factor is a 10!
Yes, thank you @TheAirplaneDriver. I should have made that more clear in the video. There’s nothing in the NOTAM, specifically page 27 for IFR arrivals that says not to respond. But I did try to keep transmissions extra short.
I enjoyed your video and narration very much. I live in Oshkosh and have worked EAA Airventure for past several years but was a spectator this year. Thank you for letting us experience a flight in and out for those of us who have never been able to do so.
Everyone has got to have their act together flying into Oshkosh. It'll be the busiest airport you'll ever fly into. Once was enough! Too many aircraft at different speeds and flying skills.
Love your channel … love when wife and kids fallows Tte men passion to expand life that is such with aviation Love it I’ll fallow you that to be honest I don’t fallow almost no one Lest see. Your expansion… if you some day comes to Miami let me know
How cool. He probably lived on “Swede Hill” on the opposite side of town from where all the Italians lived. They’ve homogenized a bit since then but the national ties remain strong.
@@ChaseAviation Thanks.. got to stop up there sometime.Great grandpop prob buried in local Lutheran cemetery there.He was an Anderson :) Was curious.. Did you do that hop to Oshkosh with no fuel stop? Shame the wx was bad. normally seems cooler for the EAA convention. Thanks for sharing!
Thunderstorms in Wisconsin! What a concept! Usually happens every day. Back in 1991, we drove to Green Lake, Wis. from NJ for a music conference. Drove thru the worst thunderstorm we ever experienced from 11pm to 1am. Didn't really need headlights, the light show lit up the countryside. It was hot that year too.
@@ChaseAviation Those new announcer guys they've been using the last couple years (who are so bland I can't even remember their names) are almost as boring as un-buttered toast. They gotta shop around a little if they want new announcers.
That was sketchy... Why do ppl like flying there anyway... Seen many videos with pilots being very uncomfortable landing there . Maybe that's the fun part 😳
With a massive amount of arrivals and departures there are so many rules and regulations that are officially modified for the week. So for a lot of people where it's ingrained in them the rules and regulations, having to change them temporarily and the amount of traffic gets a little overwhelming.
They didn't understand you were an IFR arrival, the first thing you should've done is clarify again, you were IFR and on the RNAV approach. Obviously it's hard to get a word in, but you have to speak up. You have priority until you cancel.
Well, I assumed given all I had to go through to get that IFR arrival slot and that my reservation code was literally attached to my flightplan that they would just know. It’s not uncommon to be on an IFR flightplan and then be given a visual approach either and didn’t want to be more “high maintenance” than I already was being. “PRIMO inbound on the RNAV 27” is something that only an IFR arrival would say too. Clearly they missed that part of my transmission. We’re all human and it worked out in the end.
@@ChaseAviation Sure sure... I'm a retired controller, 4 years tower and 23 years center. Just commenting to inform a bit (also a private pilot, but not current in 20 years). When you're IFR, EVERYTHING requires a clearance, so if they wanted to clear you for a visual approach, first they would have to confirm you had the field in sight and it's still your prerogative to refuse it. You were never cleared for a visual approach. I'm trying to say that you as the PIC are in charge, not the controller. You might have to answer questions and fill out paperwork later (NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System is your friend) but your safety is the priority and not knowing what's happening is not safe. If you're not sure, ask questions. Great video though, and I'm glad it all worked out. I never had the privilege to fly into Oshkosh, and YOU DID IT. Lessons learned, LOL.
In that case Sir, I appreciate your service! Here’s the part that was snagging me. Page 27 in the OSH NOTAM: “In VFR weather conditions, IFR arrivals at Oshkosh will be sequenced with VFR arrivals and may be asked to land on a runway dot. Review pages 10-13.” The field was technically VFR at the time. So I felt the instruction to enter a right downwind was ATC doing just that. But it seemed like a conflict and that they simply had my location wrong. Which turned out to be the case.
@@ChaseAviationI've been out of the game for 10 years now, and not read the NOTAM but being sequenced and landing on one of the dots is separate from Instrument Flight Rules, rules are rules after all. Something wasn't kosher IMHO and it wasn't your fault. The reason for the dots is runway separation, for light aircraft it's 3,000 feet. I worked a busy event at my airport which involved about 9 aircraft taking people up for rides and I was landing two, sometimes three at a time on a 10,600 ft runway so I get that part. 🤷♂ Maybe there was also some kind of waiver. In any case, you got to fly into the busiest airport in the world and did it successfully so kudos! My main point was again, if you're confused, sort it out because confusion is a link in the chain to an accident.
@@keithbrown9198 Yes Sir, Oshkosh is one big FAA waiver for that week so the standard rules are on hold. Somewhat selectively and without clarification. They give us just enough rope to hang ourselves with! Totally agree... when in doubt, ask. Which is what I did... and it remained clear as mud. I was literally about to press transmit again when he came back on the radio and asked if we were on frequency. Such a relief!
ATC might find that if they slow it down a click or two they wouldn't have to repeat so much and say it only ONCE!!! We're not impressed with how fast they can talk, and anyone listening would find it hard to interpret.
Eh, once you get a certain number of planes, there's really nothing anyone can do to minimize the wait. The only way you can avoid that is to turn more people away and not allow them to fly in there, which will piss off an infinitely larger amount of people.
@@camward9293 I agree. Basically just max out the ticket sales and if you don’t have a ticket, don’t fly in. We had NOTHING booked ahead of time other than our arrival slot. Paid for everything once we got there.
Yes, terrible. I deliberately left out mentioning the fatalities at the show because this channel is monetized and in now way did I want to benefit from those losses.
My Dad had a Stinson A10,and a J3, We would fly from Hales Corners Wi. To Crivitz Wi. A few times each year,following US 41. In the 50,s. NEVER IN MY WILDEST DREAMS WOULD I THINK I WOULD SEE YOUR AERIAL VIEW OF OSKOSH. DAD IS GONE,BUT I WILL BET HE STILL HAS THAT STICK AND RUDDER OF THE J3 IN HIS HANDS AND FEET! GOD BLESS AND STAY SAFE!
orange life vests? or traffic vests lol lots of strange people ou tthere the whole family? you are not all there brian... you stay away from my bell 505 no helmets or orange vests allowed. long drop and no you cant wear a orange parachute lol why arent you waving a flag?
