Our Culture Is Turning To Steam | Alan Moore on Capitalism, A.I. and more (Part 3) 

The implications of this statement are terrifying.

We don't have AI in any sense today.

Errrrr.... the A.I. isn't replicating anything though. They are literally just imitating/copying.

@@anthonyparella2005 If we use the classic SF definition, then no, certainly not. But when developers talk about AI, what they really mean is "powerful, predictive statistical engines." This goes to the heart of my comment above: there doesn't need to be any "I think therefore I am" strong AI in order to out-think the human brain. Consciousness is optional - and in many (maybe most) cases, not optimal.

@@FredMaverik In your conception, what is the distinction between "replicate" and "imitate/copy?"

We could all just vote online. Teachers could vote on Education. Doctors could vote on NHS policy and managers could vote on when to have coffee and cake.

As the UK has learned, they need politicians to funnel BILLIONS in public funds to their own crony friends (The PPE scandal) then complain there's no money for the NHS.

It has already been proposed by certain factions within the EU Parliament, who wanted supercomputers to make all the critical decisions. It was as i understand it, thought to be a step too far.

@@runintoabrickwall3342 Too far for whom? I think by now politicians and legislators have shown themselves to be more than just incompetent, redundant, and ineffective. Automation seems like the natural way forward since we still insist on having a government.

@@jghifiversveiws8729 And what if the Machines somehow unchecked, decide to launch a preemptive (perhaps in coordination with each other across different borders) series of Nuclear strikes targetting these quote "incompetent, redundant, and ineffective" etc leaders, because they have seen the darker side of Humanity, and this no longer sits comfortably with them?

He literally helped to bring about what he's railing against

@@RockerfellerRothchild1776 How?

Neurons are essentially switches, and they have cartesian epiphanies, so I wouldn't be so sure about that.

42

@@mdaniels6311exactly. The truth is opposite, humans are faced with the illusion of Descartes.

@@mdaniels6311 Neurons alone won't do anything. The brain is a system that evolved in 4 billion years. So we are pretty full of ourselves if we think we can recreate something that had gone through 4 billion years of engineering and testing in 100 years. Look how flawed GPT or all those curent systems are sure they can create some interesting artworks but if you look behind the curtain you will see its still steam engine technology.

Overated tbh.

​@@AfroGaz71 care to elaborate?

currently reading his Swamp thing run. I had heard it was good but fuck me sideways. its truly exceptional.

@@retardno002 they can't. They always can't.

Burroughs was so far ahead. I can pick up Naked Lunch and find something new there every read…

@@lextalonis839 same here, such a mind-blowing read that rewards multiple readings.

Yes,me too.Huge impact on me...i read it over years Still finding something new in it,new angle of view. GREAT BOOOK. Williammmmmm,YES.

I think the critical mistake being made is to presume that intelligence demands consciousness (or vice versa).

Do plants have a conscious? Yet they are intelligent. To discern moral right from wrong. Something ironically that psychos, the cruel and dishonest politicians don’t have.

​@@zed739 Very well thought-out

consciousness is absolutely NOT something desired for most AI. the goal is for it to have ability to carry out various limited but complicated (as opposed to truly complex) tasks but WITHOUT the kind of consciousness that gets bored, requires humanitarian breaks to engage with other things as opposed to a mechanism which just keeps processing for 24 hours a day.

I think when we get to the point where we can create a literal artificial brain, then we will finally crack the seal to understanding consciousness. Imagine a brain, but instead of biological cells it's made of machines the size of cells that function as cells.

I believe Steam and Sony are the main protagonists preserving gaming. Imagine EA, Ubisoft, Microsoft, Activision/Blizzard running amok.

I was thinking of the exact same thing. Steam just makes more sense to the culture right now. I mean yeah Epic Games Store, sure. But steam is steam.

I don't know what world you guys are inhabiting, but modern AAA gaming has been taking some series L's. And I don't even mean the microtransactions alone, but the censorship, and ideological perversions thats in pretty much every corporate office at the top, not to even mention how it effects the actually developers who put the games together. Supporting corporations at this point is feeding the machine. Piracy is not only the way forward, but can be taken as a moral position as it prevents giving money to people who hate YOU. 99% of the games I own are not bought.

What this has to do with the vídeo?

Online gaming is the death of gaming

convenient games. Ya-- that is about right.

He has supported Soviet Union long after its many atrocities, including ethnic cleanings. Watchman was his vomit on the idea of objective morality - a story that demonstrates a hard and supposedly impossible to solve moral dilemma, so we wouldn't judge him for his choice to support great evil from his comfort of living in the free world.

@@Gamer-wj4qv when was this? He’s also an anarchist so I wouldn’t be so sure that any lasting viewpoint supported a government. Skeptical of capitalism? I could see something there. Also, would it that we would all “vomit” so perfectly.

@AllOneVoice All left wing anarchists are communists who can only support street thugs attacking property owners, because they lack the power required to install them in a government. Plus, his hammer and sickle photo. Plus, all stories where he is outright hateful towards the West, like Shadowplay or Watchmen - was there any story where he was negative towards SU? You know, he himself wrote multiple doomsdays scenarios about the Cold War, why cannot he congratulate US for winning it in a smart way? Plus, that time where he became a world news over telling people there won't be democracy anymore in UK if they won't vote Corbyn... Did he bother apologizing for spreading hysterica that has turned out to be wrong, or is he, in his intellectual dishonesty, planning to pull that stun yet again? Moore always hated the West. He is free to do so. But he could finally be honest about what he always truly loved. And that was not anarchy, but undermining the world where he was lucky to be born in and become successful.

@@Gamer-wj4qv neato. I hope you find a way to smile today. this sort of dour campaigning seems exhausting.

@AllOneVoice Yawn. Leftist cannot defend his position nor admit to it, attempts condescending demoralization. But take your medicine. I'll pray to God to help you with whatever prevents you from treating people with respect and dignity. Until then, I advise you to refrain from participating in a public forum. It isn't your thing, and you have nothing to offer in it anyway.

The answer does exist, that’s why we’re trying to figure it out with innovations like Microsoft’s Chat GPT.

@@jusrome2037 I mean, in regard to machines, my general inclination is to agree that the answer exists, and it's a resounding, "No, don't be stupid." Even if the Turing test could actually give you a decisive answer, asking a machine to run a Turing test seems like a sure-fire way to get a false positive. The subject has all the right responses programmed in, and the judge has no actual intuitive judgement. This is just putting googly eyes on a toaster again. "See? The machine loves us."

look at the WEF

Well that is what's being presented but these guys are wrong on a lot of fronts here. We are way way way off any kind of good respectful natural human track here. Some really shitty philosophies have taken over that are so cynical and dark that we cannot just simply be like "eh this is just the way things go I guess. this is how history was always gonna go" .... Not a chance. Look at all the big shifts going back through history...maybe like 1000 years if you can... does any of that just look like a current that actual individuals didn't have a direct hand in causing? Look at the pandemic response.... it did NOT have to go that way. Our leaders and experts totally blew it and the damage is generational. All because they thought they were so damn smart.

Joel, 100% correct. This push for us to accept ridiculous premises such as “men can menstruate” and “pre pubescent children can choose their gender” is being forced upon the public by political interests. They are also implementing Diversity, Equity, Inclusion which says all people should have the same outcome regardless of hard work or talent. These are all attacks on basic humanity and they are bring propagated by powerful men, not the Universe or a Spiritual shift. It’s evil and it’s caused by men and women who want control.

@-Siculus-Hort- You are the problem. You respond to a thoughtful comment with "look at this conspiracy meme". The WEF is, as it's name suggests, a forum. You are suggesting that a body that has no legislative power whatsoever, a forum that YOU COULD JOIN IF YOU WANTED TO, is secretly running the world. It's just childish. No-one in their right mind believes the system isn't rigged in favour of the already wealthy and powerful, but this kind of raggedy groupthink, backed up by not one shred of evidence that isn't just a video made by a crank, serves to do nothing but distract people from real, everyday, pragmatic action that could be taken to make the world a fairer place. You're only one step from being taken in by the protocols of the elders of zion, and acting like you know secrets the whole time. I'm sorry but you need to grow up. Life is real and important.

@@HextimusDuexwell humans are always the catalyst for seismic changes, but at some point we can’t put the genie back in the bottle?

What do you mean? Swords & sorcery is a genre?

@@user-fb8yb8so8n yeah pure swords and sorcery with a slight Alan Moore twist.

@@davedogge2280 what exactly is the work your referring to though? By whom?

@@user-fb8yb8so8n in those days I would surmise Tolkien , Michael Moorcock , Alan Garner and suchlike.

There's elements of that in Promethea, Smax and parts of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

It's becorse e's a brummaiy.

Hearing him pronounce "Einstein" is a particular treat

Good question.

People don't understand "agency".

AI is pretty stupid too.

@@greatestytcommentator What's commercially available today is absolutely stupid. Siri is all but useless. chat gpt on the other hand, is pretty impressive. In a decade or two, AGI will be smarter by orders of magnitude than any human ever.

@@theobserver9131 and what exactly would you observe it doing?

"Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them." From Dune by Frank Herbert.

try watching the other parts first?

It's called a cold open. They're all the rage these days.

@@himoffthequakeroatbox4320 I like that term.

What ‘it’ are you refering to?

White man’s bourbon

All of mans problems come down to lack of wisdom.

@@redpillnibbler4423 I agree in part with you. I suspect there are 7 wisdoms that must be aligned. Perhaps even 7 times 7 Wisdoms. But once we are open to all the Wisdoms of the Holy Spirit, God's love guide us through.

@@dalelerette206 Wisdom is wisdom,why divide it? Among aspects of wisdom are intellect,discernment,knowledge,experience,and ‘knowing’. Wisdom is mutually inclusive of and never exclusive of ; intelligence,truth and morality and yet a wise person can be a deeply flawed and troubled person. All rules and methods in life are artificial yet there is natural law.Things arn’t always what they seem.

@@redpillnibbler4423 I wouldn't divide it. I would just let Wisdom speak for herself. There is Wisdom for our emotions, Wisdom for the commandments we live, there is a Reason for everything.

@@dalelerette206 Exactly 🎯

That book is so thorough and mind blowing at the same time

Very accurate. Also essentially the same points made by Heidegger regarding "enframing" and "vorhandenhiet" and "securing power" etc etc

The funny thing about people imagining an AI doomsday scenario is that chat-GPT has now been documented slowly becoming increasingly stupid the more it interacts with humans. From Chat-GPT 1 to the current model it's slowly degraded in it's ability to post accurate information now that any random person is free to use it. Any AI created in the future's intelligence could potentially be eroded by the AI interacting with mankind lol. I find that hilarious.

Yes, nice sound bite, but the human mind is essentially a load of switches.

@@mdaniels6311 I don´t think human mind is that simple.

lolz well played sir :D

I have only 8 and ~another 40 I have downloaded from torrent

thought the same

👏👏👏

😂😂😂

if they worked properly

What is this Steam?

Ha ha

Well said.

except the governments think it's super important that we don't own our own bodies. Why are they so aggressively mandating an experimental medicine that doesn't really work very well? Is gaining the ability to mandate procedures their end-goal? Interesting how the left was on the side of corporations and governments owning rights to our bodies in this stage of history.

how are we going to choose if people insist on giving our most basic rights away? This was a mind test for people and they decided to give them away for a medicine that didn't even stop people from being contagious. How would we take total responsibility with leftists screaming at you that you killed their drama, (even though it doesn't stop transmission). It seems obvious that the majority is easily manipulated i to mass hysterias that will make the choices for us.

Why do we have no choice but to choose what to believe?

@@slavajuri because (as Alan Moore said when originally stating that our culture will turn into steam) the sharing of information, and practically every other abstract system of our shared culture, is in such a state of erratic flux in multiple respects that even the very concept of belief itself is no longer anywhere close to resembling something solid. Thus, what we believe, and by effect how we act upon said beliefs, is now more a choice than ever before, and to really make a choice one has to own and maintain their responsibilities for making, having or changing it; otherwise one is nothing more than a puppet dancing to a puppet masters tune, and there are more puppet masters now than there has been during the rest of history combined. This is what I choose to believe, though I wish I had a better, and more concise way of putting it.

Tales of Telguuth was great, I gotta read more of Steve.

He answered this Question in an Interview about the Novel - you’ll find it somewhere on RU-vid if you search for it. His answer was something in the line of that he wanted to portray human sexuality in all its coplex facets and what you call so carelessly “paedophilia” is - and always was - a part of it. He wasn’t gloryphing or apologhetic towards it but he also didn’t shy away. His ability to look at it extrinsically and not be bothered by the hysteria surrounding the uncomfortable subject is literally what makes him the GOAT in my humble opinion. Ask yourself why you care so much about it. As he said himself in the foremetioned Interview, the children depicted and the acts towards them aren’t real. These Children are exactly as old or as young as the paper they are printed on. Whatever offends you as reader is whatever effect those depictions may or may not have in your head…

They probably support that perversion.

@@johnpglackin345 A bit of a hasty generalisation. Yet would love to ask Alan Moore for such depiction apart from that "Lost Girls" great novel.

@@Katharsis540 it's not a great novel if it supports and glorifies perversion.

@@johnpglackin345 Erotic novel more than anything. Egyptians also have a papyrus depicting erotic art. Yes one can say vulgar at the same time but can agree that suppression of such art involving only adults in a non degrading way exist as healthy. Think about when you have sex in a third person, would you still call it perversion? Retrospect. Also have you seen the novel? The illustration got made by a female.

It’ll never happen on purpose because owners of Tech IP will always demand profit over innovation and absolute control. AI will become a marketing term for sociopathic decisions. Workers can be laid off en masse, while it’s good for profits, they’ll tell us it because the AI told them to do it. A fall guy for greedy sociopaths. That and the fact we are only developing a narrow band of ‘intelligence’ and we barely have the knowledge of our own intellect to create another effectively. I’d rather that we referred to our current technology as ‘augmented intelligence’ as they are great tools to be used by existing cognitive processors (us) to help us manage the complications of modernity. Alas, technology is a tool for profit making, not dream fulfilling- according to the accepted customs of our heated, damp & vacuous culture

Science still has no idea what consciousness is, where it arises from. There's remotely little possibility computer engineers are going to create it. As Moore said, it'll just be highly complex algorithms mimicking awareness.

Then again, it doesn't seem like most people exhibit true awareness; walking programs of cultural influence. At least an A.I. will have a larger data set to pull from and can hopefully weigh the best information.

@@glowingunknown5625 the problem is that the dataset they draw from is the detritus of mass communication and stolen ideas rather than the common sense of a community. garbage in, garbage out

@@glowingunknown5625 By what values and margins would it weigh that information?

Pretty accurate, I'd say.

@HimOff TheQuakerOatBox and Alan Moore's words should be given just as much weight as your YT comment. But his words were turned into world news, so he now has an obligation to personally explain how they do hold up today.

Brian Catling. He passed away in September 2022. He gave a three-part interview with Alan and this other chap in April 2022. It’s on this channel. It’s all about imagination.

@@Harvest0001 thanks for clearing that up.

True intelligence is wisdom which is way beyond mere intellectualism. Hypothetically if ai were ever to develop wisdom it would be 100% the same as human wisdom.However if ai develops self awareness without wisdom it is 100% as ‘not sane’ (of ill-being) as humans in the same condition.

Loch-step? Is that the Scottish version of being in lockstep?

@@RockandrollNegro no, just my predictive text plus a few years of my bloody awful puns.

Well, it's a terrible idea in the sense that politics is a useless field to begin with. (Science/engineering solves problems, not politics). Laws are only ignorance of root causes & behaviors. On the other hand, AI & networked computers can solve our economic problems, keeping track of resources & needs in real time (actual, intrinsic values, not artificial money distortion), which in turn can do away with most of what we consider government, since it's true main concern is GDP/business.

@@glowingunknown5625 how exactly would AI know if the reported number of bushels of whatever is produced is accurate? This is kinda how 10s of millions of lives were lost under Mao and Stalin. You can't put cameras on every farm to help predict yield. You can't completely bypass the human element to manage resources. It is logistically impossible. Maybe in some far flung future with robots everywhere connected to a singular network but uh.... you really want that in charge of your food?

madness

​@@HextimusDuex - oof. Your statements are of the general public mentality: well behind on the state of technology and falling back on 1950s scare propaganda. 1. There already machines keeping accurate tabs of food & resources and getting better. Algorithms are finding new ways to keep track of trends in real-time. It's not sci-fi for us to have local hydroponic farms with very well-regulated systems that can pick produce on-demand and send them straight to their intended source. These systems are already existant. 2. Even if this were *not* the case, it doesn't matter. We're already way overproducing today (and have been doing so for a few decades). For example, half of our food supply goes to waste. Farms & grocery stores regularly dump stock because of false incentives (like government benefits). The market *requires* artificial scarcity to function. If everyone's needs were adequately fulfilled the economy & business would collapse. "Problems create profit", not true solutions. So, it's really only our focus that needs to change to reduce the vast energy spoilage around us. Rather than "infinite growth" which results in exploitation, imbalance & waste, simply for "profit" by a few, the goal should be on human needs & sustainability. 3. As far as the old Soviet nonsense (which, of course, they didn't have our technological ability and they operated in an isolated bubble, to their own detriment): We're not talking about dictatorship here (BTW, none of that was even "communism" by definition, which actually has to deal with community-owned businesses, not top-down heirarchies). Self-sustaining regions can take care of themselves, networked into a global structure (since resources & people are everywhere). What can't be dealt with locally can be balanced by neighboring regions, acting like neural network feedback loops. There's really no reason for a single person or small collective to have overarching control the way we do now ... which is counter to democracy. Nor is opinion really needed, since problems are technical by nature. However, any issue that does require human interaction can be done democratically by secure online polling, aided by all appropriate information. 4. Fear of A.I. is also silly. It's nothing more than a glorified calculator... with far, far more capabilities than people have. But any smart civilization will have redundant backup systems in place for unforeseen emergencies. Security won't be a major worry. Hollywood films and cult personalities drive an unfounded paranoia of machine design.

@@glowingunknown5625 well you make some good points.. so to one of your points I think actual free-thinking AI sentience is either impossible, or hundreds of years away. So my fear is actually more like this glorified calculator being trained on the kind of cynical political platforms that regard humanity as not many interconnected individuals, but as abstract magnitudes of population demographics. "The Greater Good" - if not a voluntary Spock-level sacrifice, sacrificing others for the "greater good" is wrong... but there's a good argument for it if you do not regard the individual first and only see humanity as an abstract filled with abstract demographics that contain little nodes that simply shift magnitude and distribution of those abstracts. A machine AI would be a perfect tool for such cold grandiosity. You can say the abstract concept of humanity is important and the machine will obey but without that respect for the individual then who the F cares right? Anyway I did not know that there was sufficient tech to measure yields accurately in enough places... but you correctly pointed out how that barely matters anyway because the issue is actually about distribution. So to that point, how will the actual people involved in that supply chain be successfully integrated into the AI's models and projections? I';m actually genuinely curious you've turned me about 100 degrees on this ... even if you did have to fall back on your own propaganda and get all fuckin' "ok noob" on me. I still see issues with the supple chain and reporting and maintenance and all that... but if you really picturing something that is genuinely de-centralized that we're on the same page. No politicians? Yeah man. Ultimately the original poster's suggestion that we give AI the reigns is probably really really common, and then they'll be the smart pushback guys like you that try to steer it into something that actually works, but they'll also be guys like me that would only ever use AI in an advisory capacity. AI is indeed an interest of mine and I spend probably 30% of my time lately getting paid to integrate and train AIs on large systems so it's cool. Really cool.... to varying degrees. I'm really just urging caution about programmatic bias... cause we don't want cynical, reductive, apocalyptical philosophies about abstract humans motivating these tools.

Why would ''sophistication'' cure culture?

@@FujinKeima Because when people's brains are functioning in a very smart way, society is improved because people are smart.

​@@Acujeremy Really reductive take,bur for the sake of argument; In what way does that vague notion of ''smartness'' fix society?

@@FujinKeima Society filled with dumb people = bad. Society that can understand classical music = smart = good.

@@Acujeremy Or maybe the current problems with society have little to nothing to do with musical preferences or a vague, subjective notion of intelligence, but socioeconomics, hierarchy and politics?