If you would like extra content/perks AND you would like to support our channel, please check out our Patreon: www.patreon.com/IntotheWest If not, we still really appreciate you for watching! Thank you!
My favourite unnamed hero is the moria goblin captain. In moria, the heroes are not what hits hard, it's all the monsters and sheer number of troops that do the damage. 35 points (40 with the shield) for 2 points of might to manoeuver my cave Trolls or balrog are worth their weight in gold. The opponent will mostly have to counter your heroic moves with their own, hence they drain their might pools as well. Which is exactly what I want with my own mightless Monsters. Once their heroes are dry, what are going to do? Absolute Playmakers
Great video. I always enjoy these discussions. Just a few thoughts. I agree with Richard on this one. Cave Drakes are one of the best monster profiles in the game. I've ran between 1-5 in multiple games. They are absolutely devastating to enemy lines and can kill almost any enemy hero in the game if they get to charge. A lot of players think their 92x120 base is a disadvantage. I disagree. Drakes being on an oval base may make it easier to trap them, but it also makes it very difficult to try and lock them down with 1-2 models, especially if you protect their flanks. If you didn't get to charge during the initial fight, Barge gets you that incredible Monstrous Charge bonus and the oval base will usually allow you to get into 3-4 models. In a tournament last year, I took out an entire warband of 12 IH Dwarves along with their Capt with 1 Drake and 4 shield Goblins. Another useful thing about the Drakes is if you take more than 1 Drake, *all* of the Drakes get to lay a nest marker and all of them gain Fearless within 3" any of those markers. Multiple 3" Fearless bubbles strategically placed around the board is incredibly useful and powerful when you have a scenario where you have to cover a certain point(s) on the map or you need to hold an objective. Most experienced players won't send their best heroes against the Drakes b/c they can flash kill nearly any other non-monster hero in the game and even a lot of the monsters if you use Heroic Strength. Inexperienced players may do it once.
Great points and situational uses! I think the main (probably only real) downside is the 1 might on a 150 pt model. I agree with your experiences, it very often make up it's points back, which can be hard for some monsters, whether it's killing a hero or taking out an entire warband. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! -Richard
I really wish that black gate got shamans, without the fury your army can just fall apart. At 800 I took 3 cheiftens and mouth of sauron I might have been unlucky but I was up against 3 terror causing armies at the tournament I just couldnt charge anything with my orcs and my cheefies just fell apart :(
That sounds brutal! 100% agree, a shaman option is needed to scale well to 800 points, that or maybe allow the Mouth to lead Black Numenoreans? -Charles
@@intothewestpodcast Not sure what you guys think of this but Scotlands resident Dwarf expert would also say the kings champ is a liability and would rather have Gimli and 2 banners. "The fact the banners are heroes mean they can't pass the banners on. Also it means they need to take courage test individually as they don't benefit from stand fasts.That is a downside in Hierlooms, To the Death and Destroy the Supplies where banners are worth VP's Then them being Heroes is a downside is Fog of War, Lords of Battle, Assassination and Contest of Champions where they can be nominated targets OR they can give the enemy general an easy hero to kill to get might back So in 7 out of the 18 missions they provide some sort of liability The Kings Champion himself is a good points value model certainly cheaper than Gimli and 2 banners and the S5 3A is great. However sometimes the 2 might is a pain whereas Gimli has the 3 and can always piercing strike to go to S5 if you're confident the Kings Champion isn't SHITE I just think from experience there's better choices. If I was going to an event and none of the bad missions (or maybe only 1) were in the pack I'd definitely still consider him. I just don't think he's the auto-choice"
That’s an interesting take! Though Gimli and two banners costs more points, I can definitely see your arguments for them. Good shout on the passing off banners point and being a potential liability-I think the extra defence and fate on a herald in addition to having two of them makes it hard for your opponent to score their banner VPs. But you have a point with the hero-targeting scenarios. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! -Charles
@@jmaccsarmiesofArda Very good arguments against the Kings Champion, I'm a Khazad Dum main who only brings him at high points. The lack of might is a pain and also the warband spaces which you didn't mention here, you are only bringing ten warriors for a 140 point hero. However honestly I think Gimi is a terrible shout in Khazad dum and I would suggested leaving him in the dustbin :D. Bring dwarf kings, dwarf shieldbearers, and Balin / or Durin, and FILL THOSE WARBANDS!
Good to know, thanks! This episode was released back in July 2021, unsure if it was FAQ’d yet at the time, but I am a little sad that the Cave Drake no longer has that trick up its sleeve. -Charles
@@intothewestpodcast no worries, i never thought of doing that to be honest, i love my 2 cave drakes. Had one in my recent 800 list and he tanked 3 turns of 30 shots each vs rangers LL in destroy the supplies and then just killed everything. I think it was 17 rangers, faramir and another 2 heroes
Really enjoying the content since I found this channel a week ago! My favourite unnamed hero I’ve used is the Palace Guard Captain, whilst next to Thranduil he’s F7 S4 with plus 1 to wound and a hand a half elven blade at D7 with a shield for his points he’s dangerous in that battle line
Just wondering on the Harad/ Far Harad list. Won’t 7 harad bows be too many? Heroes don’t count for the bow limit so Suladan cannot be counted as the 7th for the bow limit.
You always round up for bow count. So 50% of 13 warriors is 6.5, rounding up you can take 7 bows. Similarly in a regular 33% max bow army, if you have 10 warriors 4 can be bowmen. -Richard
Page 131 of the Rules Manual (with Gandalf the White on the cover): “Your army can have a third (rounding up) of its Warrior models equipped with any type of bows or crossbows”.
Time to hang it up! Haha but for real, we are genuinely grateful for everyone that tunes in to watch us, we didn't think we would get here so quickly. So thank you! -Richard
as a khazad lad im wondering why no mention was made of warden teams? great video, enjoyed the hell out of it, but "khazad dum have no spears" kept getting thrown in during the kings champion section and it bugged me :D especially since they would be useful against all the other lists. something to threaten cave drakes and trolls, so you aren't locked into killing troops for the break. and vs far hard foe spears can still support other models than their shield pair, they just lose the bonus to wound vs monsters. so you could have S4 support for iron/hearth guard and also have a D9 shielding model (-1 to duel but they aint there to kill stuff) to block camels. sure they're points heavy but elvish back line aint exactly cheap either.
Good shout out about the vault wardens teams, I actually quite like them as well! They definitely are very solid. I think what we meant is that you can't really build a "conventional" spear and shield battle line with 2 ranks deep in Khazad-Dum, unless you only take vault wardens, simply because they come in pairs. If you take the spears to support another dwarf they aren't supporting the shield guy. And as good as they are, I haven't seen a competitive KD list with just spamming out pure vault warden teams. From my experience there might be 2-5 VW teams but most of the battle line will be unsupported making banners more essential in this list compared to others! -Richard
@@intothewestpodcast the main problem with vault warden teams is that it is expensiv to buy like 12 teams (like 140€). But in my opinion they are one of the best line troops in the game. Just D9 with S4 is insane. Also 25p for 2 troops is not that crasy as 2 khazad guard are at 22p and the Upgrade to burly with durin makes that 26p.
Hmm I see what you're saying, price barrier might be the thing. That'd be interesting to see, KD with just spamming out VWTs - I wonder if that can be more competitive that the standard KD list you see. Might be something I need to try out .. -Richard
@@intothewestpodcast i have run eight teams before. as a full shield wall they let you get away with a lot of screwups. makes iron hills look squishy :D
