I felt bad for him but this moment was messed up in so many levels. Claire offered him so many outs, and even offered to have joint custody when Brianna was born. The fact that he waited this long to try this was a new low for him. Yeah he was hurt but he’s acting like Claire trapped him when she offered him an out.
I mean I think when she came back he thought she would come to love him again like they used to, but that obviously never happened. I really think Frank tried but Claire's love for Jamie was too strong. She should've told him that she would never love him again, maybe then he would've taken the out.
This is the moment I stopped feeling bad for Frank. This was such a shady move on his part. Divorce her and then take her daughter away from her. And he can't sit here and cry about how he wants his life back when Claire already gave him a couple of chances to get out.
It was so clear that he loved another woman when Claire suggested a divorce first too. He litterally was like "nah, we stay together for Brianna", then, as soon as the cards were in his favor, he's like "fuck that, Imma take Brianna and move to England with Sandy". Fuck I was fuming when I saw this scene.
Yeah, I thought what Frank did was pretty underhanded, he had no one to blame but himself, she had given him an out several times. Frank,had obviously had been speaking badly about Claire to his mistress because of what she said to Claire at university gathering. I understand her being angry and grieving but she should have not said anything when she doesn't know the full story.
Okay, this is the part in the books that THREW ME. I know that Brianna and Frank were closer than Brianna and Claire, but the fact is that Claire is her mother who gave up "staying" with Jamie to the end (or what she thought was his death on Culloden) or raising their daughter safely back in the 20th century. If I was Claire I would've told him that he could take MY daughter away over his dead body. Granted, I get that Frank raised Brianna and he's her dad while Jamie is her biological father, but dammit Claire's the one who gave up EVERYTHING she loved for this kid. Argh......
Because Frank is a selfish man. He always has been in his relationship with Claire. Some people are like that, where it's all about them. Don't get me wrong, I think Frank is a jackass. But that is why he has the nerve to propose this scenario to Claire.
Before I read this part in the book I felt bad for frank because obviously he loves Claire still and It hurt him that she didn’t return his feelings. After reading the book I think they changed this fight so that we would have more sympathy for frank. Suffice to say he said some really disagreeable things and it really opens the eyes to some of his true character.
@@tooicecold I'm not sure. Like would it have made a difference if Frank told her or not, cause in the end she went back anyway to be with him. It was fixed, the historical records proved that. I think Frank was looking after Brianna at this point, he knew she was going back to the past and assumed Brianna would be left alone, hence why he wanted to bring her to England, either that or he wanted to avoid Brianna going back into the past with Claire and learning the truth about her father in fear of losing her
@@mustarddoctor yes but he knew Jamie survived before he learned Claire went back to him! He asked her not to dig the past and put it all behind her and then he went behind her back and did his own research. When he found Jamie had survived he hid it from Claire.
@@mustarddoctorhe was taking her to England to hurt Claire. He was planning to send her to boarding school. At this point in the book bree hasn’t even finished high school I think she was only ages 16/17.
Claire offered him an out so many times, she made clear she would never love him as she did Jamie. I felt for Frank before this. He was just cruel here.
See, the part where she says "be serious" about Frank marrying Sandy is where I lose sympathy with her. As if it's an outlandish idea, considering that she married Jaime.
In the books it’s because frank has many different lovers not just one. He is also planning to do this when bree is still in school and hasn’t even finished high school. He wants to take her to England only to send her to boarding school saying it will make her tougher and stricter. Says Claire should have went as a child so she would be less how she is now… He hates how bree and Claire are close friends with Joe Abernathy as frank is a racist pile of crap. It’s very different in the book. I feel sympathy for him over losing Claire to begin with but he is less kind in the books.
Everyone here is hating on Frank, but I have to admit I'm more on his side. The books say that he was more selfish and a bit of an asshole, but I find that to be shallow writing that cheaply glorifies Jamie and Claire. Even more so when Frank conveniently dies so Claire and even Brianna are free to go to the past without leaving anything of significance behind. On TV, Frank has a lot more depth and sympathy and it acknowledges that Claire is not a perfect person and has a bit of selfishness when it comes to Jamie. She apparently throws herself into her work to the point where she forgets about Brianna and Frank has had more of a hand in raising her, so Frank is not being selfish here. He still loved Claire and he adored Brianna, but Claire was too hung up on Jamie to try making it work. Sure, Claire did give him an out, but Frank stayed because he still loved Claire, who wouldn't give him a chance, and Brianna, who he selflessly loved. At this point, he's done trying. He wants to start over. He gets married to the woman he loves and Frank knew she would be returning to Jamie so at some point they would both be happy. It also could have offered an interesting dynamic for Brianna in whether or not she wanted to be in the past or the future. But again, convenience for Claire and Jamie at the expense of Frank.
Leah Volmer finally! Someone said it... exactly what ive been thinking, everyones quick to demonise him but theres not that many men out there who would accept being “cheated on” coming back with another mans baby and offering to forgive and forget the whole thing and provide a family for a child he’s willing to raise that isn’t even his... frank had his flaws, so does claire and jamie, everyone is quick to make those flaws of frank seem far worse because they ship jamie and claire (i ship jamie and claire too but i wasn’t that fast to hate on frank)... i think in the end he just wanted to be happy and have that confidence in his relationship but i do think he was wrong in trying to permanently take briana away from claire :)
@@SabrinaH814 Thank you. I am an fan of Jamie and Claire, but I hate romantic triangles that demonize one person so that the other looks better in comparison. I don't really see him trying to take Brianna away. I think that Brianna had a closer relationship to Frank than Claire and believed that because of it she would choose him. At worst, he comes off as insecure, but it's a bit understandable after coming second to Claire for all those years. And moving to England is hardly permanent. Brianna's not obligated to stay with Claire. I think they're both being selfish here. They both want Brianna with them to be a "true family" with Frank/Sandy and Claire/Jamie. I also find Brianna's hesitation at Frank's proposal was more a reaction of having her "one true family" being split up. I wish that they'd played on these relationships a bit more instead of glorifying Claire and Jamie.
Thank you!!!!!!!! Finally!!!! I was beginning to think there wasn’t anyone who is on this Frank’s side. I also HATE it when the fans that hate him, compare the television version to the book version, as if that’s excusable evidence to paint him deplorable. Tv shows are ADAPTIONS. And most of the time they are very freely adapted. So it’s not fair to compare his actions in the show to his book character when it’s not the same! I love that they changed his character. I never liked how fans are so delirious that they forget that Claire abandoned Frank first. She had the chance to go back to him. She was there, at the stones. But she chose Jaime. I bet she never revealed that to Frank. If she had then I think Frank would have been even more cold.
The obituary that he saw in his office of Jamie and Claire being killed in a fire in the 1770s was the beginning of a huge combination attack. That's what really pushed him for divorce. The Final Daggar to the heart came when Claire told him that amount of time of constant reminder of jamie doesn't exist, claiming that she'll never forget him. Her words matched up with the obituary cohesively, proving to Frank that she will return to Jamie at some point. That's what kill Frank and cost him that car accident.
Not only that but Frank isn't making Brianna go anywhere. He's giving Brianna the choice. Claire is just mad because she knows Brianna will choose Frank, as her relationship with Brianna at this time was troubled.
If i was Claire, the moment he said he will take Brianna away i would have slapped him HARD, you can punish her, but you don't take away her daughter like that !!! ;
Well, there they go again, trying to make it seem that there was only "Sandy" all this time...I wonder if they're keeping in the racism thing, or if they're going to whitewash over that too. No pun intended.
Oh my god, this scene made me so mad at Frank. I feel like it was too much in Claire's favor that he died - I don't know if it's that way in the book as well, but I wish this argument was more than just before his death. In a way, it overshadowed the sadness, for me, at least. I was still mad at him for trying to "steal" Brianna away from Claire in this shady fashion, and was actually relieved that he couldn't tear them apart - I wouldn't put it past him after this. I had hoped there was more of the friendly side to their relationship, so it'd be more balanced, and we could mourn him like he deserved - I know their relationship really suffered from her memories of Jamie and it was sour towards the end, but CMON, did it have to be right before the death? It just rubbed me the wrong way, I guess. Other than that, I LOVE this season, and I can't wait for the moment Jamie and Claire meet again, and for Brianna to meet him as well :D !!
Well, it's interesting because in the first two episodes this season, I was feeling really bad for Frank because I could tell he was trying and Claire was being very unfair to him (her pain was understandable but it was still hard to watch), then this episode changed things a little. I felt like Claire was trying to at least have a civilized relationship with him, and he just kept finding ways to make digs at her. And I agree, their last fight overshadowed the tragedy of Frank's death for me. But only a little. I still felt sad because I remembered how in love they were and it's tragic that their relationship ended with bitterness and resentment. At some point I plan to pick up the rest of these books so I can see the differences.
Isadora Fonseca let’s not forget Frank’s racism as well in the books. Frank was an asshole in the books while on the show they got rid of his problematic traits
I HATE the way the show demonizes Claire character (in season 2 (the end of it)/3 ), the writers clearly favoured Frank so much, and they clearly made Claire seem like she's this evil bitch, maybe she was not the greatest person on falling in love with Jamie while married to Frank, but she did, you cannot choose who do you fallen in love with, they destroyed Claire's credibilty as a character in favour of Frank, and Claire and Jamie's romance also, that was a stupid move, they should have left Frank as he was in the books !!! ;
Yes, I agree. To me, she went back 200 years.... didn’t know if she could even go back to her century and she had to survive where she was!! Besides, how could it be adultery, when Frank wasn’t even born.
Was she in love with Jamie when she opened her legs to him for the first time😂 And even if she loved him from the first sight is that an excuse for having se* with a man who's not your spouse, it is called infidelity.
@@slcRN1971Are you even listening to yourself here, she could say the truth from the beginning to those Irish men when she knows that can be trustworthy.. they will help her eventually like Jamie did, but she chose to stay, it's called infidelity mate.. this author tries to make adultery more like a love story with extra excuses!!
Já que ela consegue viajar no tempo, ela bem que poderia voltar aí neste momento e salvado a vida deste homem que aguentou muito até chegar este ponto do divórcio
Is Claire really that arrogant or just plain thick in the head? “Use whatever grounds you like, EXCEPT adultery. Which you can’t prove because it doesn’t exist!” Is she that stupid? He can’t prove it? Did she forget that there’s a newspaper, with her picture, stating the exact date she returned? One that Frank could have EASILY dug up to prove that Brianna is not his biological child! After all it wasn’t hard for Brianna to figure out later on. Man Claire’s character pissed me off in these episodes.
Filing for divorce on the grounds of adultery would have given Claire a scarlet letter even though Frank stepped outside of their marriage as well. And not only that but because Claire and Frank decided to pass of Brianna as Frank’s daughter, his name would have naturally been on Bree’s birth certificate. That means both Frank and Claire would have to face the legal implications of committing paternity fraud.
Also it would raise the question if Frank knew that Claire had an affair, why did he stay with her for twenty years. And Claire would naturally point out that she gave him an out but he refused to take it.
@@meganswistak1144 : exactly!! If he wanted to use Claire having a child that isn’t his, then it makes no sense .....since it happened 18 years ago. His adultery is current, he waited far too long to throw things in her face this way.
It’s more because frank cheated too and it’s implied in the book and the TV show he cheated during the war many times. His current adultery was not with a woman he really loved it was with many many women over many years which she has proof of as those women came to speak to Claire over the years so she has proof. Sad really
I heard a bad boy gets recognition more than a nice guy.. he gives a lot to a single mother who doesn't know how to unite with her lover.. it's time to think about himself too..
Frank is a lowlife......he wasn't a good father figure to pull this garbage on Claire & raising Jamie's & Claire's daughter. He didn't have grounds about Brianna.
