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Overrated Or Underrated? | We Rate The Biggest Trends In MTB

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The world of mountain biking has always been full of quirky trends. Some have stood the test of time and stuck around, some have not been so lucky! Join Neil Donoghue as he enlists the help of Anna Cupillo and Martyn Ashton to discuss if some of the recent mountain bike trends are overrated or underrated.
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
00:00 - Intro
00:14 - High Pivot Bikes
02:41 - Super Enduro Bikes
04:17 - Downcountry Bikes
05:55 - Electric Gears
08:57 - Mixed Wheel size
11:07 - Lugged Carbon Frames
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Опубликовано:

8 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 123

@Velo1010 10 месяцев назад

YALL REALLY SHOULD DO MORE SHOWS TOGETHER. This was a great episode seeing the three of you debating.

@gmbn 10 месяцев назад

Great to hear! Thanks for the feedback 🤘

@markpeterson8978 10 месяцев назад

What I think I liked the most was Anna, Martyn and Neil together. This combo all most equals a Doddy in there. Nice! - M

@jayminor9757 10 месяцев назад

So, regarding lugged carbon frames: Whether it’s any good or not aside, I recently found a Giant Cadex MTB frame from the late 1980s, in a trash bin. I’m and old guy of 69 years and have been an avid cyclist since I was 15 and a mountain bike rider since I was 30, no competitive riding, just fitness and recreational. The Cadex, when I was much younger, was a very cool thing and something I lusted after but, raising three kids on one income, was not obtainable. Anyway, my found Cadex has turned into a Frankenbike of the gravel variety and with it’s aluminum lugs and carbon tubes just pleases the heck out out of me visually. It’s built up with 700c wheels, drop bars, XT 3X drive train and is the best bash around town bike that I’ve ever had. Lugged. Carbon frames are definitely under rated, and totally cool.

@gmbn 10 месяцев назад

Nice! Much better use for it than the bin 🔥

@ThunderStruckMTB 10 месяцев назад

An Atherton trail hardtail is my ultimate dream bike.... and hardtails, hardtails are underrated.

@bostondye3736 10 месяцев назад

They're definitely not underrated... They're just inferior

@DesmoSkier 10 месяцев назад

I don't think I need another gizmo to charge in my life, so I'm sticking to cable actuated gears for the near future. And I also bought a 100 pack of gear cables not so long ago, so there's that...

@Velo1010 10 месяцев назад

I’m on the edge. On one hand mountain bikes, like SUV’s/cars/trucks, are advancing. So why should we be stuck in the dark ages. However on the other hand nothing wrong with mechanical shifting which would require much less to repair and troubleshooting.

@vashusan1984 10 месяцев назад

That Pivot DH bike is one of my favorite looking bikes I've ever seen. I think it's absolutely gorgeous.

@TiMoLoToV 10 месяцев назад

I love these discussions, and would love to see more of this. However i am offended by tha fact that there was an Orbea Occam shown when "downcountry" was discussed. That is a proper trailbike. Period.

@janeblogs324 10 месяцев назад

They are sponsored by orbea so they have to include them....but where's the orbea dh bike

@andymonis5368 10 месяцев назад

Lugged feels right as I like the "build a bike on demand" rather than build millions and hope to sell. Better for rider and planet.

@gmbn 10 месяцев назад

Couldn't agree more! 🌎

@user-vv8zh1dq1m 10 месяцев назад

So Mr Ashton is actually the only one in the GMBN band to ride a real mulet short at the front and long at the back.

@floydblandston108 10 месяцев назад

I've had several motorcycles like this....I can't recommend it.

@gmbn 10 месяцев назад

Guess you're right yeah! 😅

@shaffner2 10 месяцев назад

damn, that adaptive bike is so sick, martyn. really great to see a clip of you shredding. legend!

@justsayin3600 10 месяцев назад

I love my mixed wheel. Hammers like a 29er and has all the feel of a 27.5 on the turns but with more stability. Great for steep tech.

@jbbkr 10 месяцев назад

Great segment; very interesting to hear your opinions on these features!

@brendontaylor7420 10 месяцев назад

Great discussion. I had a Giant CFM 3 many years ago. That had alloy lugs. Carbon fiber main tubes and kevlar seat and chain stays. It's funny how things go full circle.

@Michael_11 9 месяцев назад

People talk about high pivot axle path alot but the thing alot of people are missing with High Pivot is the idler allows you to much better control anti squat as non idler bikes have to be optomised around a chosen chainring size and then people change chainring and mess up what the designers intended, an idler doesn't have this issue, you can run any chainring size you want without affecting anti-squat.

@rustychain9518 10 месяцев назад

I bought a "downcountry" bike for my wife as it check every box, it's comfortable, climbs great, has a really nice standover height, and has plenty of suspension for the trails she likes to ride. Wireless is fine on a new purchase/build, or for a pro racer but for the average rider it wouldn't be much of an upgrade at all over a good drivetrain.

@MTBr-of-SoCal 10 месяцев назад

you mean a trail bike. "Downcountry" term is another overrated aspect of mtb

@GrmlMaster 10 месяцев назад

@@MTBr-of-SoCal What is sold today with the label Trailbike is definitely different compared to a „downcountry“. Standard for trailbikes is currently 150 mm travel and in general those would be sold as Enduro Bikes some years ago.

@MTBr-of-SoCal 10 месяцев назад

@@GrmlMaster100% agree that standards change and get refined over various iterations. But when we're talking about a "downcountry" bike, we're literally talking about simply swapping out components that have very minute differences. That's like if I decided to toss on a luggage rack on the back of my XC bike. Somehow it now becomes a "XCargo" bike, or "XVenture" bike (you heard it from me first) and people will swear it's a whole new category of bikes. Absolutely silly.

@GrmlMaster 10 месяцев назад

@@MTBr-of-SoCal That may be true for swapping stems and bars but stops at (little) slacker geometry or partly even wider tires. my old cross county bike does not takes wider than 2.25. If I did not swap to a „Light E-Bike“ another fancy new category, I would for sure be interested in a „Downcountry“-bike that I am able to ride all day without neck problems and frequent flats. If I can search for downcounty bike (or light E-Bikes as another example) instead of sifting through all XC bikes and comparing geometry-tables and and technical-specs, I am all for it.

@MTBr-of-SoCal 10 месяцев назад

@@GrmlMaster I think the geo is far more a grey area. Let's take the head angle for example... XC: 67 to 73 degrees Trail: 65 and 67 "Downcountry": 65 - 67.5 Based on those numbers, downcountry is basically trail bikes. Again, it's swapping components out and you have a whole new category lol.

@deedontworry 10 месяцев назад

Awesome show! 🙌 About the electric gears, not so sure. I've got Shimano XTR and it's proper! 👌

@johndef5075 10 месяцев назад

I ride Deore which is fine but I rode an XTR bike the other day and it was sweet. Felt very refined and precise.

@vrwgq3q 10 месяцев назад

A pedalable DH bike is what many enduro bikes are becoming. Put even EWS/EDR, they're not pedalling switchbacks, but fireroads... so basically its a DH bike with a super steep seat tube and a full range 1x12 drivetrain.

@manitolas 10 месяцев назад

Finally a reasonable opinion, totally agree, if you watch an enduro race, is dh 90% with short flats, so the "enduro" title is wrong.

@janeblogs324 10 месяцев назад

DH bikes pedal fine, they have anti squat. But not being able to run a dropper and most don't have fork lockouts

@gmbn 10 месяцев назад

We think it's arguably important to remember that a lot of the direction of Enduro over the years is driven by athlete feedback... so that's probably why we've seen a reduction in 'mid-race' mega-climbs and enormous multi days in the saddle, because the athletes didn't like doing them!

@vrwgq3q 10 месяцев назад

Enduro racing is really a multi-stage DH race, on slightly less capable bikes, where you have to pedal up fire roads, cat trails to get between... I totally get the EWS/EDR purpose, its awesome, but unless you are racing that category, spend that amount of time in the Park or shuttle... I feel there are more 'cons' to the DH side of Enduro bikes (i.e. 180/180s) than the aggressive side of trail or the trail side of enduro (i.e. 150/140)@@gmbn I feel that regardless of how much anti-squat, that slacked out of geo, lenth, mullet, and high piviot - as much as it helps you down, takes away as much from what gets you to the downs, if you aren't just climbing up fire roads

@garryhaines3066 10 месяцев назад

Hardtail……I for one coming from a endruro FS to a HT……HT def under rated loving my Trek Roscoe 7 HT

@nic0demus385 9 месяцев назад

I live in Florida and I bought a XC bike and turned it into a “down country” bike, or “trail country” as I like to call it, and it’s the perfect bike for the trails near me.

@theadhdbiker6493 10 месяцев назад

My 2012 specialized status 1 has been transformed now I've made it a mullet. It rides amazing.

@AlisterBrunsden 6 месяцев назад

one of my hacks is using crc exoff degreaser for cleaning my bike and a straw cleaner old toothbrushes work well too

@andrewsiasparks 10 месяцев назад

Lugs and tubes 🔥🔥🔥

@rottieshepcalibre9156 10 месяцев назад

I like electronic gearing .. only the sram kind but the price is too high and no one really says how long the batteries last and how long to fully charge. I love tech but i also love analog components. Forget self shifting gears but i really would like to see wireless brakes introduced. Cables and wires are so 1980's 😅

@metalmuchkin1342 10 месяцев назад

Downcountry, me and a friend talked about this and I agree with Martin, the name is stupid, we called it a cross trail, as its not a trail bike, nore a xc bike it's in-between with the geo, travel and tyres

@ChrisCapoccia 10 месяцев назад

In some future bike, I'd love to have that new SRAM derailleur with the new idea for how it mounts to the frame

@TheAverageDutchman 9 месяцев назад

@GMBN speaking of tech reviews, can we get a video on adaptive MTB tech? Thankfully I don't need it but as an engineer I love seeing the ingenuity put into finding solutions for working around someones bodily peculiarities. Maybe a rundown of the history and such? Different power and control options? Edit: If you've made a video like that already, I apologise, but I couldn't find it in the massive backlog if videos.

@floydblandston108 10 месяцев назад

CONGRATS!! You've finally stumbled onto the only benefit plastic (i,e., 'carbon') frames have!

@PuffinPass 10 месяцев назад

I just made the move to electronic shifting on my MTB and if you do the GX upgrade instead of a full groupset you can get in for easily under $1k. I don't see the point in buying a full groupset at all and never have, mostly because no single manufacturer makes the best option for all parts a groupset holds.

@petercallear9535 10 месяцев назад

There's a video of Lewis Buchanan racing with his new Trek Slash with high pivot. The chain just wouldn't stay on.

@pernyberg2816 10 месяцев назад

And then there is Nico Lamm who race World Cup DH on his Kaven VHP18 with a DH fork on it. So a slightly modified high pivot enduro bike and no problems with the chain. So it's not a high pivot issue. It's a design issue.

@paradox963 10 месяцев назад

Has Anna looked at prices at all, even several years ago the axs upgrade kits were $600, $800, $1000 for GX, X01 and XX1. Also, some of the worthwhile of it depend on your bike, if you have a bike that is super easy to re cable then it might not be as worthwhile even if it does shift better, as if you have a bike that is a nightmare to re cable.

@BrianKlausen 10 месяцев назад

Eletronic gears are overrated IMO. It's not that I don't like it - but it doesn't really give me any advantages compared to medium level mechanical rear mech. Much of the shifting performance is in the cassette IMO. Particularly when you get a bit of mileage on it. On the other hand, as a racer traveling for races and other excursions, it is just a hassle to have to remember charging batteries. The cabel is just there, and works... and it's lighter and cheaper. DC bikes are underrated IMO. Or as Martyn says: the name is ridiculous and overrated - the bikes are great :)

@grantwilliams2912 10 месяцев назад

Great conversation.. I love my 5010 mullet

@andrewrivera4029 10 месяцев назад

My AXS bends my derailleur hanger if the terrain is too rough, gonna go back to wired. Mullet rules in DH, enduro and e-bike.

@jasonkiser3361 8 месяцев назад

Would it have the same feel if you put a 26in on a 27-1/2 bike

@oc1rob 10 месяцев назад

Lugged Frames... I had a Raleigh Dynatech in the mid 80s, that was Steel corners and Alu tubes!! Really wished I still had it!!... even though I think I know where it is!

@gmbn 10 месяцев назад

What are you waiting for then!? Dig it out and get it going! Send us a picture to the bike vault when you do 😉

@Grant3399 10 месяцев назад

Minaars on full 29er... not top 10 this year I suppose but hes still up there. Hes a big guy though, so supports your 6 foot theory there!

@gmbn 10 месяцев назад

True! Taller riders can definitely reap the benefits

@Grant3399 10 месяцев назад

@@gmbn Oh and how could I forget, also last week's winner, Oisin O Callaghan is on a full 29er.

@KaizersPOV 10 месяцев назад

how bou 4devs short cranks. will the major brand follow through with 145-155mm crank lengths? plus 165mm on Shimnano is like 1 in a million to find.

@lazzaboyman8003 10 месяцев назад

I ripped the headtube off a GT STS! To be fair GT warranted it and the replacement was bulletproof.

@bnadeau73 9 месяцев назад

The Trek 8700 was one of the first carbon bikes. It was lugged.

@EMTBonsai 2 месяца назад

Lugged frames are pretty kool but its the epoxy or whatever they are using to bond them thats more the concern! Are they heat proof and waterproof maybe for now but after a year or so in scorching sun the bond will become brittle and fail just wait and see! As working with this type of thing amd 3D printing there's a process of care needed for these types of bonds!

@darrencable1934 10 месяцев назад

105 di2 is not a few hundred quid its rrp is 1700 and about 1100 on sale

@tim__sadler 10 месяцев назад

Awesome content but not a huge fan of second camera offering the floaty look (sorry).

@gmbn 10 месяцев назад

Will feed it back to the creators! 🤘

@simonrook5743 10 месяцев назад

Mixed wheel size - under rated, I’m 5’9” but have short legs for my height (30” inseam in socks), a 29 rear wheel is just too inhibitive for me when moving around the bike, which is why I ride a 27.5 Whyte T130c which I’ve mulleted with 29er fork and front wheel (noting the same front triangle was used on the T120 29er so it’s designed to take it).

@gmbn 10 месяцев назад

Sounds like your set up is spot on for what you're after now! Nice work 👍

@coldshoulder3753 10 месяцев назад

High pivot but only with a jack shaft the rest of those 5 cogers are a chain throwing nightmare check Lewis Buchanan trek slash vlog

@wesleyregan 10 месяцев назад

Neil, I’ve been riding a medium frame with 27.5. It was my first mtb and planning a new bike this year. I find 29ers just a big high as well. I am 5’9. What size frame do you ride?

@simonm1447 9 месяцев назад

I'm not Neil, but I'm also 5'9 (or 175 cm as we Europeans say) and I also ride frames size M. I currently ride a Scott Aspect 730, which is also a 27,5 inch hardtail bike. I have some older 26 inch bikes too, one of them is a more classic GT Avalanche 3.0 Disc which is probably 15 years old now, and this is a bike with an L frame. I got it used and restored it, and I can still ride it but it already feels a little bit big. The M frame of the Aspect feels like it suits better.

@simonm1447 9 месяцев назад

However if you now plan to get a new bike there's not that much choice any more to get a 27,5er, they have become less common the last years and most models are offered in 29 inch now.

@rohanjs. 10 месяцев назад

I still think mullet bike setup is the most underrated thing ever

@CatManDoSocial 10 месяцев назад

Very interesting content but the camera zooming in and around is something I can definitely do without. Not a fan.

@Bonky-wonky 10 месяцев назад

@what results, jackson goldstone tearing the field apart in his first year at the elites, on a v10? If anything the results show that hpp bikes don’t necessarily lead to more victories.

@henrybatson8455 10 месяцев назад

After watching Lewis Buchanans newest video idk about high pivot bikes 😬

@sloops4398 10 месяцев назад

Doesn't it depend on the trails? As much as i know there are also trails where EWS Pros's use Superenduro Bikes.

@danytheunicorn95 10 месяцев назад

Mullets are awesome even for trail riding

@TheAverageDutchman 9 месяцев назад

I think high pivot bikes are probably going to stick around in hard core DH and enduro racing, but I think they're overrated (and over-expensive) for the average punter. Just the chainline is so overcomplicated with so many points of failure it's not worth the tradeoff imho if you don't have a dedicated team mechanic to fiddle and massage the bike between runs.

@jakhell825 10 месяцев назад

What’s the difference between Superenduro and Downduro? @gmbn

@gmbn 10 месяцев назад

A Super Enduro bike is a big travel Enduro bike like the Nukeproof Giga. Downduro is an Enduro bike that usually has a Triple Clamp Fork fitted, like the Giant Reign SX. 🤙🧐

@RC-fp1tl 10 месяцев назад

Someone mentioned Anna and Neko in the Frameworks episode, and now I can’t keep hearing evidence! 1:45 😉

@JoeIsCrazyWillman 10 месяцев назад

I have to say that on the electronic gears, I'm not a fan. Y'all talked about he price being a big factor, but I think that has nothing to do with it. The fact that you have to rely on electronics and battery charge for something so basic as a bicycle to function properly is ridiculous. Oops, forgot to charge my derailleur. Now halfway out in the sticks you're stuck with whatever gear you last were in. Oops, your dropper post is stuck at whatever you just had it at. What's next, wireless brakes were once the battery runs out now you have no brakes on the trail either? Worse than brake fade when barreling downhill.... Stupid IMHO. There is literally NOTHING wrong with cables and I will die on this hill. The only exceptions I see are maybe wireless rear on brake stunt bikes so they can do bar spins without even needing a gyro on the head tube/fork stem and dedicated race bikes where you would have a team there with you and extra battery packs or whatever, as well as crew members making sure you were charged up before your event, and then you are not likely using it all day long out in the middle of nowhere, but rather in an event where they're are event staff and team members throughout. I think if neither of those things are your situation, theyre just kinda dumb. Literally nothing wrong with cables, and theyll never leave tou high and dry, ever. Not unless you neglect it and leave it outdoors 24/7 in the weather to rust and dry rot the sleeves. I guess the only negative otherwise two cables would be if you're in extremely tight wooded areas wirh lots of extraneous branches reaching at you that could grab the cables, or if you fall, it could snag on stuff and yank em... That's only if you crash tho... Which damages ensue... However you could damage an electronic shifter or derailleur, including just the electrical connections within or just the battery, where it simply won't function anymore, whereas with a cable, you may be able to adjust it's still there on the trail in a couple minutes and be on your way again. Electronics on bikes: Way WAY overrated!

@RobHill00 10 месяцев назад

Old GX AXS is around £300/400 now, not 1K!🤷🏼‍♂️

@86brooktini 10 месяцев назад

Thought the exact same. I paid £250 on sale for GX AXS and absolutely love it on my Downcountry bike. (Martin would not be happy with me)

@floydblandston108 10 месяцев назад

Most 'New' tech we've already had; it arrived for a reason, and disappeared for one as well.

@SolidxSnakexDuke 10 месяцев назад

The biggest trend are 26" bikes againe😍

@Pienimusta 10 месяцев назад

For children

@SolidxSnakexDuke 10 месяцев назад

@@Pienimusta xD i ride my 12years old bike Stil i love it 3x10 speed fit 4 me the best i am 1.93m tall i had 27,5 and 29"bike i cell it it not fitting me is to big

@briw4647 10 месяцев назад

@SolidxSnakexDuke I ride , sometimes I add, my old haro extreme ex mtb. 3x 8 . 1997. True I've upgraded it alot, well, basically just frame and gears original, but a rock solid frame. It's 26" too. ATM tho I'm using an ebike more due to injury

@johndef5075 10 месяцев назад

Seriously I rode my 2013 26" Devinci Dexter back to back against a 2023 29" Canyon Lux Trail. My Devinci felt just as fast.

@bostondye3736 10 месяцев назад

Down country bikes are just trail bikes with an xc leaning build kit.

@wick67 10 месяцев назад

Electronic shifting might be great, but like so many things in cycling these days, it is grossly overpriced. I'm not racing, I don't need it. Nice to have? Maybe, but I really don't want to have to charge my derailleur. Overrated. High pivot bikes? Ugly AF, and overly complicated. Until someone smooths out the engineering and can clean up the look, overrated. Downcountrty bikes? Now that's over-segmenting the bike market. Put some beefier tires on an XC, or faster tires on a trail and have at 'er. Overrated. Sorry, I'm an old grognard who spent 20+ years riding fully rigid on 26" wheels in the Canadian Rockies. I may be a tad grumpy.

@justinlascala2288 10 месяцев назад

Mullet is completely overrated. Hated my status 160. Slower, skittish rear end, climbs horribly.

@stephenbarnes5850 10 месяцев назад

Anna what electronic group set costs of few hundred quid ? LOL because you must have been joking . Loved the video really interesting, lugged carbon frames look fantastic Pivot and Atherton bikes should be the future

@The2808erik 10 месяцев назад

SRAM AXS Eagle Upgrade kit is like 350€, a GX eagle cassette is around a 100€ a GX eagle chain is like 20€. A GX crank set is around 100€ as well.

@janeblogs324 10 месяцев назад

The sponsored group sets must be that cheap

@bmhvtt 10 месяцев назад

Electronic shifting is overrated and overpriced. I’m not a retro grouch, I run GRX Di2 on my gravel bike. It’s great but it did brick right out of the box and was a pain to get running again, it’s been smooth sailing since. But is it really worth the price? Probably not. I’m building up a new MTB and the SRAM AXS prices are shocking, especially when you consider just how much cheaper an analog Shimano XT set up is (and the XT delivers great shifting).

@pernyberg2816 10 месяцев назад

Well..Neko made his bike as high i of a pivot he could - without having to run an idler.

@RicardoPetrazzi 10 месяцев назад

PS. Your opinion is your own and it means eff all really to everyone else here! 🤣🤣

@teletele9320 10 месяцев назад

lugs and tubes is nothing new, neither over nor underrated had a friend in the late 90s break his steering tube of the bike with carbon tubes in the snow with -10 degrees... maybe the glue at the time was not right, maybe it was aluminium lugs, or just bad luck and cold temperature.... the possibility to 3d print lugs is awesome and saves time... but the machinery is still quite expensive and so are the pivot prototypes love it, but still you need a lot of resources to do it (right) and not everybody has them

@G3LDY 10 месяцев назад

super enduro should just be park bikes, down country is just a XC of the old days its just a cross country bike

@LaurentiusTriarius 10 месяцев назад

Idk why but my local ads are filled with Forbidden dreadnoughts. I can only assume they're too expensive to pay for 😂 but yeah probably overrated

@RicardoPetrazzi 10 месяцев назад

Mixed Wheel Size. *Over-rated* - I hate it. Its looks daft too. Sorry to disagree.

@miket2646 10 месяцев назад

Did she just call modern 105 "bottom level"?

@danielgibson4744 10 месяцев назад

Lugged bikes. Underated for prototyping. Over rated for production. Pivot have already said NO. Too expensive and too time consuming to produce the way they are.

@NinthIcyOrange 5 месяцев назад

All trends are marketing driven and are overrated as a result. People want/need progress, not gimmicks

@ShitStefanShoots 10 месяцев назад

The problem is all the tester being dwarfs. At 6'5" every word about Mullet or MX is lost time for me. Wake me up when you discuss 32-29ers. To put it more kindly: I am sure my next bike will be an EMTB and I am looking only into full 29ers with standard cable routing.

@gmbn 10 месяцев назад

Unfortunately there's always various aspects of ergonomics that exclude folk that are too tall and too short. We hope you get your 32 inch mixed wheel sometime soon! That would be sick

@ish474 10 месяцев назад

I think all of these things are under/over rated based on where you ride.🤷‍♂️

@123ilovemountainbike 10 месяцев назад

my dream dream dream bike

@crankshoptv8141 10 месяцев назад

Underated... Having differing opinions and being civil about it.

@Bugle25 10 месяцев назад

Those new camera angles are annoying….

@Trikk57 10 месяцев назад

I swear this video come out once a month lol..

@MTBr-of-SoCal 10 месяцев назад

Sorry no. Not all XC bikes makes you hunched over. XC bikes come in variety of ranges, just like Trail bikes. Dunno why the freaking term "downcountry" need to even exist! It's a super niche of either a XC or trail rig.

@thelittleewokboss9929 10 месяцев назад

Xc sucks

@silver_c1oud 10 месяцев назад

Electronics 100% overrated. sram =crap= Overrated

@darrenwall5439 9 месяцев назад

Down country is a gay term... Crosstrail makes WAY more sence..

@craigviolich692 10 месяцев назад

What’s with the drunk camera man. Making me sea sick. 🤢

@oliverdurgen5953 10 месяцев назад

you guys miss the point of some of this stuff. who cares what your make believe rating is, the simple fact is that these hybrid bikes serve a purpose for the riders that ride them. and you guys put too much into the way a bike looks. looks matter, but they should never stifle technological advancement.