Nate, thank you for sharing despite having been so ill! I know a couple times you have recently mentioned giving an update on your family. I’ve been anticipating that and thinking of you all. It feels strange as we do not know each other nor do I know your family, but because of the content you share and the things this followership understands there’s a bond I experience. You’ve inspired me to dedicate my life to this work in ways that I am still discovering. Thank you and hope to hear about your family soon. Stay healthy, stay hydrated, and stay rested.
Thanks Nate, you've helped me destroy my old misaligned life, in service of our human predicament. I'm now in the process of building a new life. I've had to sacrifice many things. My new life is much different from what I had previously envisioned for my future. But now it is way more realistic and agentic. With the help of all the knowledge on your channel, my worldview fell apart in 2023 until nothing but my core was left I suppose. Of all the scattered pieces of information I collected during my life, I could rebuild my worldview and my attitude towards it, into a better one. This process took about six months of neural and emotional overdrive and nearly - involuntarily - killed me. I also understand now how old people can die of grief. You helped me open my eyes to a world that is way more fascinating and meaningful than I ever thought it would be in my fairly anonymous life. It is still rough but I couldn't unsee the knowledge. It hurt me deep within. I've had to take long breaks and am currently still both deeply depressed and misunderstood by my social environment. I guess this is my life now. But I wouldn't have it any other way. The motto of my people is 'Luctor et Emergo': I struggle and emerge. And so I will. It is too important not to. I will spend my life to figure out how to properly channel the being of my almost 30y/o meatsuit into actually working in alignment with our potential children's futures. I am in the process of figuring out practical ways for myself and other 'powerless' individuals to work in favour of the shared values that every human and all our ancestors on earth would sign up for. I have come to believe that it can be different this time, because now we have brilliant inventions (like the Internet, Internet money, combined with people like Nate), and also because it sort of needs to become different in this century in order for humanity to have a healthy, sustainable and hopeful future. I also believe that more people than ever are ever more enlightened and educated. Good luck fellow humans, and don't forget to smile once in a while. Because you're living in that part of human history when you can truly feel alive.
@@cmonc1984 Thanks for asking. I'll give you the short version. Graduated uni during covid with a scientific public & business administration background, and then worked as a software consultant to help businesses with their digital transformation. I did a good job and worked hard. I had a bunch of friends, romantic relationship for almost 7 years, and I guess a lot of hopes and plans for the future in a world I thought and hoped was different. I was too preoccupied to think things through and to try to make sense of the world myself. Then I realised I was metaphorically watering the plants while the house was on fire. When I understood the gravity of the actual situation, I regained the empathy for (human) life, along with my common sense and many ethical values that my governing systems had forced me to shut off. My short term focus became a long term focus. I had to reprioritize and get real, because any healthy future for our (potential) children depends on it. In a way I found God again as I woke up from my dream. I couldn't 'unrealise' all the facts and their implications. I felt like I woke up into a nightmare. But I would rather have more people being aware of the situation than less, and I would rather have more people acting on their awareness than more people ignoring it or giving up. With this simple logic I have since felt a meaningful but agonizing responsibility to devote my life to increasing our chances of a bend-not-break scenario. I feel cursed to have learned this, but blessed to be able to understand it and act on it. It's too important to ignore. I don't wish this fate upon any human, but I also wouldn't want to trade it with anyone else's. The job and my relationships mostly turned out to be incompatible with my new knowledge, insights and directions for the future. My family didn't quite understand, but recently they've started to. Now they're becoming more supportive and are paying attention. Ever since 2023 I've mostly felt alone and isolated while trying to get a grip on my new understanding of the situation of the world and myself in it. My social circle didn't interest me anymore, partly because they lost interest in me after my attempts to share my new insights about the metacrisis and our potential futures. They were not ready or too busy to find out. My girlfriend wanted a normal life and decided to find someone else. No one understood or wanted to. I still rely on the income from my employer, but now work a much less demanding job within the same company in order to manage the huge load I've been trying to adapt to. Right now even that doesn't feel sustainable for me. I've had to ask for professional help with figuring out how to deal with my situation. It has been a challenge to even try to explain it. For now it's just me versus myself. It is not easy. But with the help of others, I am slowly starting to make progress in finding my new way, and I'm confident that I can grow and make some meaningful difference. I guess you could say my strategy is to focus on social enlightenment. There's more to it than that, but the main plan revolves around using the internet as a means of creatively communicating the stories about what I know with as many people as possible and in an interesting way. With this work I hope to improve our understanding of our own roles in these stories, and to inspire hope, meaning and agency. And most importantly, with this work I want to ask my fellow humans to remember that despite our many differences, we all have something in common.
@@HellsMaw '"Me versus myself" What a great way to describe the tension we live with once we become collapse {bend/break} aware. It is quite a journey.
I regularly get blown away by Nate's pocasts. Nobody describes what we face more honestly and effectively. [That said, I do follow a number of others who express similar viewpoints, many of whom have been on his programs.] I share these whenever I can. Nate is a gift from the Universe.
Hei Nates, impressed by the effort you put in trying to make an alternative voice heared. There are more and more intellectuals doing the same all over the world and we can just hope it will continue. Don't burn out: this is a life-long marathon. Good luck.
Wow this is my first listen to your podcast and I'm so impressed if this is content when you're sick! I appreciate you sharing this important information to the public. Can't wait to listen to more!
Thanks, Nate. Your last two TGS podcasts, on AI with Daniel, and then the roundtable on communication, really blew the ceiling off my concept of reality, calling for some major reordering and reintegration of what I've considered to be priorities for most of my life. Listening to this discussion was an exercise in getting back to basics, and it was exactly what I needed at this time. Happy to be with you.
It's the ultimate taboo, and the main reason for overshoot, due to worldwide over consumption, even though some like to blame it squarely on just a few nations, in the heavily industrialized world.
@@mrrecluse7002 I'm with you on population being a significant factor in this, but how is our predicament not predominantly the fault of the heavily industrialised nations?
@@mrdeanvincent Yes, technically it is predominantly at fault, strictly regarding the emissions of the richer nations. But global heating is just a symptom, of other issues, to do with massive environmental degradation. 8 + billion people are the rest of the story. Of course, they want to emulate these richer nations.
@@mrrecluse7002 The vast majority of environmental degradation-not just emissions-has occurred as a direct result of the enormous levels of overconsumption, and the vast majority of that overconsumption has been driven by developed/wealthy nations exploiting other nations. Maybe I've misunderstood but it sounded like you were trying to let the developed nations off the hook so you could lay more blame on the exploited regions...
@@mrdeanvincent Of course, the developed nations take the overwhelming share of the blame for being at the vanguard of overconsumption. Nonetheless, the wants and needs of over 8 billion people have resulted in overshoot, regarding the carrying capacity of the planet, and now the energy needs of developing countries are in the process of making an enormous contribution to the heating of the planet. You ain't seen nothin yet, when it comes to the rising demands of air conditioning, as an example.
Social Egalitarian Ecocapitalism "SEE" is written into the Constitution of Young Custodians NPO. Much of the data, knowledge and wisdom we apply, comes from the many hours of lectures & podcasts that you have graced us with, over the past few years. Thank you Brother Nate, stay on the path, we appreciate you!!!
Nate, yikes, a fever of 103! Glad you're feeling better but if you feel sick in the near future I recommend getting tested for Lyme disease and babesiosis. I had both 15 years ago and had a similar high fever, though with flu symptoms. You probably don’t have a tick disease but it pays to be vigilant. Excellent talk!
@mme4211 I live in southern NH. I was lucky to find a Lyme literate doctor within a few months who knew how to treat it and the Lyme with anti-malarials and several antibiotics. Yes, these diseases are expanding northward with climate warming. Not a good gift to future generations.
@mme4211 I didn't relapse, perhaps because I found a doctor within a few months who knew how to treat it with the anti-malarial Mepron. You may want to check ILADS for Lyme doctors. I belive the FISH test (acronym) is the standard for determining the presence of babesiosis.
I'm going to quote the bridge of a song from 1969 that opened my eyes as a young boy. " Too many mountains and not enough stairs to climb. Too many churches and not enough truth. Too many people and not enough eyes to see. Too many lives to lead and not enough time." After the Beatles broke up they became my favorite band and still are.
Once again a great episode. If only we had listened to the results of "Limits to Growth' when it was published in 1972 by the Club of Rome. At that point we would have had a chance to make the necessary changes. Now people are so spoiled by high living standards, making a backward step is politically impossible. The economic system we have created in the last 50 years does not allow for growth to stop, otherwise the monetary souffle will collapse. Hence bankers, economist and politicians constantly talk about growth, even though it is now largely debt financed. So we are left with a predicament that we are destroying the planet but cannot stop the destruction. Hence all the talk of changing to renewables and EV's entirely misses the point. By all means we need to build renewables while we still can but at the same time the economy needs to shrink severely at the same time. Forget Mc Mansions, SUv's, OS travel, we need to build a life support system that is long term sustainable, with much less energy per capita available. Personally I cannot see any good way out of this until the point of no return, as predicted in Limits to Growth.
Animal agriculture uses 83% of farmland and only provides 18% of calories. When we switch to a plant based food system, we can restore/reforest 76% of farmland AND be able to feed everyone. -J. Poore, Oxford, journal Science
Yes! - #Overshoot.There certainly are better and worse responses to our predicament, but we would shy away from describing any of them as 'antidotes'. Ultimately, there is no cure for extreme human ecological overshoot. Collapse is inevitable. Don't just collapse - #JustCollapse!
Some ones say that when we become out of health, we have profound thoughts that go beyond our rational understanding, synthesizing them. Thanks for this Frankly 68. It remains to me the discourse of Arthur Keller that I just heard this week teasing and interviewer with some similar ideas. You should invite him to your podcast. He is an engineer specialized in the system's analysis. To learn more about Keller there is a lot of conferences or conversations with him on RU-vid (in French, of course, but just put on the CC translated in English).
Hi Nate, Your assessment of what is socially acceptable overlooks a significant aspect: the shifting and growing predisposition to accept suicidal trends. It has become socially unacceptable and politically incorrect to question somebody who chooses to reproduce in the middle of war zones to criticize those who oppose unchecked population growth or to complain about the havoc wreaked by economic refugees. Additionally, it is frowned upon to question national policies that encourage both legal and illegal migration, to hold third-world governments and religious leaders accountable for their situations, or to consider sending migrants back to their countries, so the host country would reduce GHG emissions. Our greatest adversary is not incompetence, corruption, or the existence of masses of people who are perfectly unfit to provide dignified living for their families-though these issues are prevalent. The true enemy is hypocrisy.
6:47 fElon Musk claims the Earth has a carrying capacity of 80 billion. He is so full of sht on every subject he shoves his nose into. How anyone, especially Nate, thinks he's 'very clever' blows my mind.
Indeed, Musk's only talent may be in fraud and pushing people around. Musk has been wrong on virtually everything he cares to pontificate and proclaim himself the world's greatest "expert". Musk may find himself in nice rent free room in camp fed, should Trump fail to regain presidency
My grandma had the same stove for over 50 years. How about we just go back to building simple heavy duty quality with the right to repair, spare parts guarantee, corporate responsability etc?
I have an 80 year old stove. I remember one year I made a dump run that had mine and my parents 20 year old microwaves and two "new" microwave that had died within two years. Assuming we could fix planned obsolescence, obsessive fashion, and military stupidity we might stand a chance.
The problem is it’s a global one, I’d guess when your grandma was born she’d be sharing planet Earth with less than 3 billion H.Sapiens there’s now 8 billion of us (along with our live stock, pets, and diminishing wildlife) and soon to be 10 billion of us, maybe more. Also this guy Victor Lebow a retailing analyst famously proclaimed in 1955 - “Our enormously productive economy demands that we make consumption our way of life, that we convert the buying and use of goods into rituals, that we seek our spiritual satisfaction and our ego satisfaction in consumption. We need things consumed, burned up, worn out, replaced and discarded at an ever-increasing rate.” A situation that would be near impossible to turn around🤔
Great episode! What I missed is mentioning the massive inequality concerning overshoot. Americans use up the annual ressources of 5 planets every year, Europeans that of 3 planets, Africans that of less than one planet. There is absolutely no way to keep up this embarrassing injustice. We have to meet somewhere around a 1-planet footprint to avoid dystopian desertification of our home planet. So please more Great Simplification models in your podcast. Tell us what will be absolutely necessary to change in our personal lives over the coming five to ten to twenty years, depending on where in this world we live.
Do not embrace any position of Musk, rather image that broken clock being right. Unless you think Silicon Godhood or it’s pursuit is moral instead of an abomination.
The fact that these podcasts usually get tagged most consistently with redirection to "official" climate information makes me want to listen to more. The world is so vast, so many different biosystems. How can only one view be the "official" view? One exception might be if looking at it from the moon. Thanks Nate.
I budget the amount of “ain’t it awful” (AIA) info. You are my preferred AIA guy. I focus more n personal action I can take to make my home and lifeways resilient.
Not only more extreme views, but more and more full of folly. Musk succeeded so far only because he was able to hire and abuse talented people. Musk's only talent it seems is fraud and pushing people around.
The ominous implications of Overshoot seems to be very low on the priority lists of those with economic and/or political power. Instead, economic expansion and an ever-growing GWP seems to be their Holy Grail. Where and when have our global leaders ever demonstrated the wisdom, foresight and humanistic compassion that our current predicament demands? It is truly frightening and demoralizing to acknowledge that this conundrum didn't "just happen". WE, as species, did it. But we did it under the auspices of self-serving fools and charlatans.
Yes, but also examine the many multi-polar traps that our society is and has been locked into since the invention of agriculture. It's very difficult to imagine how it could have turned out any other way given the realities of human nature.
@@kurtniznik8116 Yes, but instead of wisely steering us away from our human frailties, those in power have been cynically exploited and manipulated them. Instead of invoking our best inclinations, self-serving charlatans have made "big bank" on our worst ones.
Thank you Nate. Glad to hear you are better. If you put the whole amount of food consumed by western civilizations on one table and ask how many people could you feed on that, you will get closer to an idea of how many people this planet could carry.
A "unit of time" is the problem since "unit" was defined by Platonic philosophy as irrational magnitude "twoness." Time, as per Fields Medal math professor Alain Connes, is actually a discrete nonlocal overlapping of future and past. Connes simply calls it "two, three and infinity" from simple music theory that is nonwestern.
like straight lines and right angles, a point (unit) is only convention (a place holder on the "unit" sphere). Like labeling one part of a single note. As long as humans exist with a "sub"-conscious they will not see these truths. They are alone in this way and will cease to exist for the sake of this same delusion.
@@JMW-ci2pq I did my University of Minnesota master's thesis in 2000 on radical ecology, music theory and what I called "sound-current nondualism." Technically it was a "Liberal Studies" degree but that is just an old skool aristocratic interdisciplinary self-designed program. My advisors didn't understand my thesis - I had no critical feedback - and they apparently got pissed when my thesis was published online. hahaha. So I was offered by a physicist who published music books to get my thesis published but then he, Charles Madden, admitted he couldn't understand it and actually his wife had wanted it published. This caused me to look at his "Fractals and Music" book and he points out the Taiji symbol is NOT a fractal since a fractal has to be commutative geometry based on symmetric spacetime. In my master's thesis I had referenced some physicist claiming the Taiji was a logistic equation and now I realized this was wrong. Soon after I discovered Alain Connes' book "Triangles of Thought" and he gave the same concept of music that I was trying to explain. I realized that noncommutativity was the secret I had been calling "complimentary opposites." hahaha. Only I was still not sure if Connes was being metaphorical until I discovered his lecture on youtube, "Music of Shapes." So now I have a plethora of free books and articles based on my research - my academia edu site has it all posted. Soon after my master's thesis I was digging through the basement book boxes at a used bookstore in Dinkytown by the University (Nate will know this area) - and I discovered total corroboration of my master's thesis!! There is a book called "Cosmic Humanism and World Unity" by Professor Oliver L. Reiser. I discuss this in my books - but I soon published this online in 2001 as the "Actual Matrix Plan" conspiracy expose. Reiser was working with theosophists and the UN and the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton (yes even Einstein was a supporter). They called it the "music logarithmic spiral" from the daughter of Thomas Watson - Esther Watson Tipple. The idea again is that Western mathematics is derived from Platonic philosophy secretly based on music theory! A great source on this is math professor Luigi Borzacchini - he discussed it in 1999 on a math academic forum - and he finally got his research published in 2007. I had sent him a scribbled now in 2001 and he replied back that my math was good but I had no historical evidence for my claim. Then we corresponded recently - in the past year - although he is retired now. See my latest book for his replies to me. So essentially as Sir Roger Penrose points out gravitational entropy is the opposite of the entropy of matter and thus Penrose thinks civilization will not survive abrupt global warming. All our technology attempts to decrease the entropy of matter actually increases the gravitational entropy on Earth! How can that be? Penrose points out that gravitational potential energy is the truth of dark energy but originates from quantum negentropy as noncommutative nonlocal protoconsciousness that is also antigravity. See Professor Basil J. Hiley's 2021 Emmy Mind-Matter symposium response to Penrose - they are all together but you need to go through the website since their youtube talks are unlisted. Hiley points out that quantum biology has been wrong because of the wrong quantum foundation using a wave function collapse as the quantum measurement problem. Due to noncommutativity there is no limitation of the quantum scale and this is how quantum negentropy maintains and creates life from nonlocality! I have discussed this with Professor Basil J. Hiley for the past five years over several emails - last email he replied to me that he "loved my music article." And thus ended my career. hahaha.
@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 Void, I am blocked from responding most times. I also was NOT allowed to publish (universal gravitational harmonics). I would love to share this with you. Here is an example of being blocked from another thread: " post: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-EcOmWePP7UY.htmlsi=1Gf5Ie0u9m-w-jyq @alexanderj808 2 days ago There is a mistake.... The fallen angel.... the sin started from his heart... the rebellion against God was his own wish. But man.... man was lured into sin.... meaning that the sin was not from his own heart. That is why God the merciful gave man a 2nd chance, unlike the fallen angels...... @JMW-ci2pq 1 day ago The concept of separation from the devine (all things/beings) is an Auruman manifest. The "fallen" angels ARE humans. The rest live in the living Heaven that is Nature. Civilization is the lie produced by this. Civilization always falls from the destruction of the Heaven (Nature). @gregoryphillips2939 1 day ago @JMW-ci2pq interesting concept, Norseman? (blocked) @JMW-ci2pq 1 day ago @gregoryphillips2939 It is simply what is. Most ancient writings are the same in this way. It is only the artificial human social / societal structures around the writings reinterpreting context and meaning as their relative evolving languages change. This is a reflection of their ongoing separation from Nature / Divine. Human sub-conscious is the mechanism. Universal Harmonics (Physics- ancient Greek word meaning "nature"). David Bohm discussed this with Krishnamurti as "Emergence" (something from nothing). One can see this same physics without the self/subconscious. Thus one "sees" as the atom (synonymous to and with: Adam; Noah; Daniel; Job; Moses; Vishnu; Ezekiel; Lao Tzu; etc..). How one expresses this experience is predicated at least in part on the culture/language available."
In environmental sciences overshoot is an euphemism for "population overshoot". The one and only subject of overshoot is population. Population overshoot is a function of a given specie total count over time.
No it's not. It's the product of population size, average consumption per capita and technology. Not only the population size has dramatically increased, also the consumption per capita. Also, it's clear that the use of non-renewable resources like fossil fuels is not sustainable even with a small population.
Feeling personally vindicated to see one of several awesome J. Diamond books being referenced. Is perhaps J. Diamond a future guest on TGS? NH having a fever puts him in equal state as the planet/Gaia. Look what great vision it induces!BTW Dr. Lovelock would have been another mindblowing Guest on TGS, alas he passed last year. 16:11
After 66 years on this spinning orb, I am pretty sure Little Nate is going to be very disappointed. Also, I do like the phrase, financial/monetary alchemy. Hope you feel better soon from your bike ride.
Dear God, Nate! That's all we need now - to have our leader/father/scientist/teacher lost to the wet bulb temps?! You scared me. Please be careful! We need your guidance for at least another decade!!! *Hint: hydrate while cycling, wear thin 100% cotton (white only), and consider an ice vest. I bought one just in case. You freeze the packs that fit into it. Use it in an emergency, like you had last night. It will bring your core temps down ASAP. A large freezable gel pack can also be used to lay upon - they sell them as "pillow coolers". Please....be careful. We need you.
My goodness it’s come to something, when one of those in this case Nate Hagens who’ve been informing us of the effects of global heating, have to be told the consequences of the effects of temperatures on the human body, and Nate who often talks of wet bulb temps, it was not so long ago he was in conversation with Kim Stanley Robinson, discussed his novel “The Ministry for the Future” - video “Kim Stanley Robinson: Climate, Fiction, and The Future" | The Great Simplification #66” ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Xc53KPv7flk.htmlsi=bypfgSDEYDdLEjK0 🤔
I recently heard that people over 60 are more sensitive to heat and likely to get heat stroke - even when well hydrated. I’m in that same category - just in time for more heat events due to climate change!
Maybe it’s time Nate for a refresher conversation with William E. Rees, here’s a short clip of yours (c7 mins) “William E. Rees on The Fundamental Issue: Overshoot”
@@urbanistgod I can understand what you mean, he may sound a bit 'full of himself', but personally it doesn't bother me and I think he really has a broad and deep understanding of the metacrisis etc. and he's certainly helped me to advance my understanding of it.
I SO wish Nate took a systems view of our systems crisis. Nature creates lives to care for themselves. The question is what keeps us from what we’re born to do? Somehow we make false promises and believe them, as if o blind to the need for growth to be followed by growing up.
...you think Elon Musk is smart and you agree with him on some positons? What? What on earth could you possibly agree with him about, the guy stands in complete opposition to everything you claim to believe in. I'm going to need some clarification on that one.
I wouldn't blame people for falling for Musk 6-8 years ago when his image was at its height. Now, though? I think it's extremely suspect to think of him as smart or his views/positions as valid when there is so much preponderance of evidence showing otherwise in recent years.
Scottish poet Robbie Burns... "The best laid schemes o’ Mice an’ Men Gang aft agley, ( go all wrong). A book I read said humans are like mice. Families of mice living in harmony in the grass at a side of a road suddenly found grain spilled from a truck. The mice population increased they built tunnels in the bank they destroyed the grass they had been living on.. The grain then ran out. The mice fought over last ears of grain. Mice died. So perhaps Burns poem is a look to humans future
If peak Duran Duran was 1983 then the UK had about 67 coal fired power stations with a capacity of about 46GW, at least 5 small ones were in London although they closed in that year. The last one standing is Ratcliffe on Soar and that has taken its last delivery of coal at the end of June which it is burning through before it closes at the end of September 2024. Basically the end of coal burning in the UK after 300 years. Now the gas plants and the biomass wood pellet Drax are in sight. The UK has been in overshoot for a long time .
Drivers for Overshoot: No. 1 - "No matter how highly mechanised and self-powered, fossil fuels extraction requires a number of people as if the process is executed by hands using buckets and ropes - by physics". Today, this number is 8 billion people - working flat out 24/7 - strong. "Energy, like time, flows from past to future” (2017).
Nate, I very much appreciate your discussion and conversation. I take a 3 to 4 hours drive every two weeks which allows me the time and space to listen to you and your guests. I one or the people that has become better informed and knowledgeable thanks to you and your guest…keep up the good work and say hi to the chickens for me
I made the exact same point, using 5x more words.. sigh lol And not only that, for most people, 'responsibly' wouldn't even be going as far as necessary. Not to mention that 1 person living unreasonably could offset what, 10 people living reasonably? Even more for the rich? It 100% has to start with overpopulation, and GLOBAL. Canada is 1.5% CO2 emissions. Even if it stopped 100% its activities, would be a drop in the ocean; insignificant. And btw, realistically, now,
@@literalghost929 direct emissions aren't a good indicator of responsible living. Consumerism tends to mask it's impacts by importing finished products so the emissions are recorded on somebody else's books.
@@brawndo8726 Yeah, energy would be a better indicator. Money is also indirectly, by limiting salaries, you limit on how much people can consume. Anyway, prices will adjust, already we see it in the US with inflation, and it'll just get worse and worse. I don't think we have a chance.
Yeah sad loss. It was a weird combination, religious figure yet overshoot activist. For most religious, the notion of climate change or overshoot gets outright dismissed, as it's not really compatible with the notion of religion. Hard to reconcile both as they're quite opposites; one dismisses reality and the other focusses on it..
*Why* did we make use of the energy in the carbon pulse? *Why* do we pull consumption forward in time? *Why* are there 8 billion-plus humans (and more coming every day)? *Why* did we create a culture that prizes conspicuous consumption? ("Why," is the question Nate, not "what"!) Why do the drivers you have named motivate us? If we do not understand *why* the drivers motivate us, then eliminating the seven drivers you've named simply will result in the substitution of other, equally destructive, drivers.
Max power principle, generally. I’ve talked about it a lot. Should have mentioned it here. If I scripted everything I’d never have on the fly integrative thinking. So far, we’re following the downhill roll of energy like other species and ecosystems. Whether it’s inevitable or fatal is open question. Thx for comment
I would say that there's one overarching driver. It is the ancient societal belief that humans are lacking and flawed. This belief makes us uncomfortable in our own skins and so we fight for gain to fill the supposed lack and police ourselves to thwart the supposed flaws. This huge distraction wastes time and energy that could otherwise be deployed in addressing the details that Nate mentions. Actually, without that ancient negative belief about humans, we wouldn't even create the overshoot problem, so it wouldn't need solving.
I don't think it's the case the people aren't 'ecolate' enough, it's just the the continuing function of the social order requires us to keep running. That example of the attitudes of proximity is exactly it - people understand that this project doesn't make sense, but a lot of people are choosing to suspend their disbelief in order to enjoy their lives. Even as rich as we are in the richest time in history, people still deploy anti-social behaviors. It seems that the only way to transition to a post-growth society is having some kind of perfectly fair social rules, which is impossible.
You forgot the eighth antidote to overshoot- nuclear holocaust and other cataclysms, catastrophes and disasters. And this will lead immediately to the "Great Simplification" with absolute and utter certainty. Realistically you should accept this truth as axiomatic in your theory of how the Great Simplification will occur, and have a show about it sometime soon. I will help you if you wish because I have some interesting insights and I believe strongly in the coming Great Simplification.
80 million humans in "tesla" pods with feed and waste tubes, being shocked every half hour to simulate exercise, acting as a training pool for AI. Did Elon say that part out loud?
Maybe I did not understand why you brought it up, but if all of us went to make campfires with our friends or go canooing, this would also be harmful, both from a consumption (co2) and nature (disturbance) impact perspective. Heck, maybe Las Vegas and Candy Crush would be more sustainable than hordes making campfires and canooing.
We can keep all shops, schools, casinos, roads, leisure/sport arenas/stadions... raise animals... grow crops... under ground. Only upper part of homes above the ground to have some sunlight... at our roof top. Dig, man... dig!! That would leave so much more space to nature. What's dug out can be compressed to blocks to roughen underwater terrains where the sea bed is flat due to bottom trawling... Certainly more to do to restore Tellus back to almost original condition on the surface, while humans spend most of their time in several layers under the soil without disturbing the wildlife too much.
Over and over and over we have to repeat this fact to people who just can't grasp sich a simple fact; capitalism isn't humanity. Capitalism is the source of over production and over consumption, not human nature.
We are lemmings headed toward the cliff, overshoot is when we have gone over the cliff but have not yet made impact on the ground. Perhaps we have already gone over the cliff already?
The ultimate tragedy is global trade is the ultimate bubble. Not only does the global south feel the bitterest point of extreme weather, the process of integration into the global supply chain has dismembered their economies, homogenized them to fashion a cog. They are drawn into the net, stripped of their capacity of self sufficiency and made dependent on the global core, the top 10 industrial nations and obligated to pay in foreign currency of nations themselves in the finding out phase of extreme weather. Infrastructure globally is not designed for this climate and insurance is insolvent covering damage. When insurance fails, so will property value, investment and lending. *poof* no more dollars for the gs to pay with and no more economy for them to sell to. We in in the global north, nearest to the core, are not different to the south
Just yesterday, I was listening to this other podcast where they said that the total mass of humans and of animals that are raised for food represent 96% of the total mass of all mammalian animals. The podcast (in french): COMMENT L'HUMANITE SE VIANDE - Jean-Marc Gancille | LIMIT @LIMITMEDIA If true, we are clearly in overshoot.
Well, there's good news and bad news on this topic. Let's go with the good news first. The population while currently still climbing species wide, is on the decline in more countries than where it is on the incline . What that means, is that sooner or later population will crest and then decline species wide. The second piece of good news is that those in economics are beginning to see the 3rd and 4th rows you talk about. They're beginning to realize that not taking those rows into account affects the first two rows in a VERY negative way (eventually). Now the bad news. Many in economics still don't see past the first two rows. (I expect more and more of them to do so as the negative affects of the other rows start affecting the first two rows, and they begin looking for the culprit.) The second bad news is that the people in charge of fossilized sunlight are desperate to drag the last penny out of it. (There is a serious possibility that doing so will bring down civilization, and make those pennies they worked so hard for worthless.) Humans are approaching this topic from many perspectives, often without understanding that this is what they are working on/against. Eventually there SHOULD be convergence and sharing of resources between peoples going in the same general direction. Good Luck folks we're all going to need lots of it.
Nate, you are fundamentally mistaken. The drivers of overshoot are the downstream effects of the root cause linked to them all - humans; specifically the evolutionary state of most humans that has us perceiving each other and everything outside of our body as separate and, consequentially, doing everything we can to obtain resources, energy and advantage to compete with the other humans, unfavourable environment and anything else that hinders our competitive advantage and perceived survival. The antidotes listed also are simply physical descriptions of the real antidote which is a fundamental change in human evolution and consciousness that has us perceive ourselves as inseparable and intimate with the world around us. Without this shift, no antidote listed will ever manifest. So, does the focus need to change to the state of human consciousness and how to assist that change? Does focus on education (doesn’t seem to work for smokers!), data gathering, awareness make any difference if the root cause of overshoot is limited, disconnected, and consequently selfish and competitive human consciousness? shouldn’t that be the focus?
Not to mention the population growth as the cause of the overshoot not worth asking for funding to find solutions, much less to simply measure overshoot more effectively.
I can’t count the times I’ve walked by a car (or here in Vermont, a huge pickup) in the supermarket parking lot with the engine running and a kid sitting inside playing a video game while mom shops. Okay, I know it’s hot, but the store is air conditioned, so why do you need to sit in the car burning gas, going nowhere?
Nate since you're going to be a public speaker going forward you should work on your rhetorical skills like avoiding so many filler words uh/um, tone/pacing/inflection stuff like that, it's a skill that can be improved
"The Earth is precious. If you alter it you will ruin it." -Lao Tzu Crystal's Edict "The Point" -Is so far reaching that it is nearly impossible to say in words. Speaking and lecturing or listening to speaking and or lecturing about "living; life/Nature" are mostly just received as some kind of esoteric truth and a longing for something more meaningful. The actual meaning of the same Truth is that only Heaven exists and humans are the only thing lost to it and from it. Servitude to Nature alone is the only road to redemption. Inside or outside. Death / life are just misnomers, change of state. The Purpose remains constant. One Soul many faces. No one form is superior to another. Civilization it's self is the cause of all life's destruction. Accepting this as some kind of necessary phase or step TO something is delusion. Now is always constant. All and every essence is always dying & being born. Action is now. Preservation of complexity for the sake of All beings NOT civilization at all And not humans first 1billion humans to dismantle all infrastructure and returning ALL mined/drilled materials to their inertial place of origin by order of density and toxicity. 1billion humans to create "Earth-Ship" type self generating environments from as much earthen material as possible. As many species as possible must be able to migrate to & from these .... All the rest to support the the first two. One Soul Many beings /faces/species Crystal's Law
Do you Know "Olivier Hamant" and is book La troisième voie du vivant? Promoting robustness over efficacity by the way of social interactions. Antidote.
In wildlife biology, "overshoot" is known as a J curve in a population. This is a very common and natural thing. However, every J curve crashes ;) At around the year 1800 was when the human J curve started at 1 billion and early 1900's was when it started going parabolic. Industrial revolution and penicillin certainly were contributors to this. If the people who create money from nothing to loan to countries, create wars to loan more money to countries and stopped forcing us to use petroleum that they control and allow free energy, that they have suppressed, that Nikola Tesla discovered over a hundred years ago, the Earth could support a trillion plus people. Seriously, follow the money. Ask yourself, what is money? Who creates it? Why do we need it? Do we really need it? You will be surprised what you learn.
80,000,0000,000 people... perhaps he was thinking food systems will be moving to precision fermentation... not sure it would be the best use of this technology....
