its so sad that the first new trek show since enterprise just concluded and instead of passionately debating what the best parts were, we're having a mildly dis-interested chat about what the worst parts were. The absolute state of nutrek.
Here is why I hate Star Trek Discovery: The characters' evil behaviour is rewarded; It mocks Old Trek's heroes and the values that they represent; It mocks the fans by creating stupid plot holes, infantile characterizations, and spastic production; The producers and actors attack anyone who criticizes the show, even making false accusations; It is pessimistic, cynical, ugly, and dystopian.
Something I realized now, when they jumped to the 32nd century, they were shocked to discover the Federation collapsed. But in their own time, the Federation hasn't even existed for 100 years yet. Why would they expect it to exist 900 years later? As for the seasons ranking... all the problems season 1 introduced aside, at least back then they had some ideas and they were attempting some serious drama (eg. the characters were dying unexpectedly and it was shocking). I remember watching it week-to-week and wondering what would happen in the next episode. Although things went kind of downhill when they went into the Mirror Universe for too long and they missed the war with the Klingons.
I don’t consider any of this Star Trek but the most entertaining season for me was season one. It was like a bad Argentinian soap opera that you get hooked on and it becomes a guilty pleasure watch. It all became too stupid after season two but the first season is carried by the greatest character that ever appeared on Discovery - Captain Lorca.
I loved Captain Lorca as well, I thought he was by far the most interesting character in the entire five years of this pathetic series. And Grudge was by far the best actor.
SNW has a lot of flaws but at least it has the format of 90s Trek and it looks beautiful. I think if SNW was the show that came out in 2017, fan response would have been far more positive to NuTrek
TNG may have had poor ideas here and there, but the writing and acting more than made up for it. Furthermore, it was episodic. Therefore, a bad idea or mystery box didn't destroy the entire season.
Something I was surprised by, we never got closure with the Crepusculans. Those were the desert Aliens that Discovery violated the prime directive to save in the first episode. The fact that they jumped into the far future was a perfect opportunity to bring them back. It would have been a nice touch if they showed up and express gratitude to Micheal for saving their race. "For you, it was a simple away mission, but for us, it was everything". Or maybe they come back as bad guys and the show gets a chance to show the dangers of meddling with pre-warp civilizations.
The first season was definitely the most frustrating for me because in my naivety I was actually expecting the series to be in the same tone and spirit of all the previous Star Trek TV series come out which obviously allowed for a certain amount of latitude and distinction from what came before, but, at its root fundamentally committed to the Gene Roddenberry humanistic vision, common to all prior Star Trek TV series. When I initially discovered that the series would be a prequel, I was already disappointed, because I wanted to see Star Trek push the envelope in terms of future thinking and world building. Nonetheless that certainly didn't determine from checking out the show, however, when I first started watching it although I was very impressed by the special effects, I was baffled by the showrunners ambitious decisions to cover well tread core elements of the lore, such as interactions with the Klingons, yes do so in a way which far from adding nuance , basically came in with all the subtlety of a child with finger paints having its way with a Renaissance masterpiece painting. It was just so stupid I also resented and was baffled by the cruise abandonment of the formal military Starfleet jargon in favor of a contemporary, casual slang & tone,v which only reinforced the show's abject repudiation of the core values and elements that need Star Trek distinctive and appealing to its fans, After about four or five episodes in the first season, I grew so disgusted and frustrated that I stopped watching it all together,, and only came back one or two years later 2 channels such as this, just like people who stare at a car crash crash
Agreed. I too was hoping for a good, optimistic Star Trek television series. After a half-dozen episodes, I gave up when I realized that the show was pessimistic, cynical, and dystopian.
It's refreshing how in depth you explain why you don't like things and what the problems were. Facebook Star Trek pages are full of people in immense outrage that us long term Star Trek fans don't like Discovery. I think they get angry because they feel we didn't try....but many of us did, we really did try to get into it and appreciate it but it's difficult to like something that not only tramples on continuity but doesn't make sense either in the Star Trek universe or within it's own lore.
"Facebook Star Trek pages are full of people in immense outrage that us long term Star Trek fans don't like Discovery." I find it very strange that those outraged people are not actually watching Discovery. I mean, the popular and successful sci-fi television channel in Canada shows over 30 episodes of Old Trek (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT) every week. This week, June 7 to June 13 (2024), the channel is showing no episodes of New Trek (DIS, PIC, SNW, LD, PRO). Apparently the channel and its sponsors know that people are still watching Old Trek and that nobody is actually watching New Trek.
Wouldn’t it have been better if in the pilot episode they accidentally spore jumped to 32nd century, then Daniel’s told them because of the Time Accords they must stay there - it would have brought that sense of wonder, discovering the new future tech from the perspective we’re all more familiar with, not messed up Canon, could have been a bit darker because of the burn, Klingons etc could look different as you could say it’s 1000 years of evolution. Not ruin legacy characters or bother with the mirror universe. It would have been a much better show and would have been received better by the fans.
Star Trek Discovery ruined any future Star Trek series since it happened so far in the future. It makes anything threatening Starfleet anticlimactic since we know Starfleet will survive the Borg or a Dominion attack. There isn’t a point going forward other than going to another Universe.
@@RachelWeick-iq4fr Writers should just admit it like JJ did with the new movie cast and give Captain Pike a better outcome instead of torturing him with his Final Destination with "the chair." It doesn't have to be that way. It brings down Strange New World knowing that in seven years he will be "melted cheese."
My personal "worst" was Season 4. I think making Michael the captain who everyone on the ship adores and constantly smiles at gave me diabetes. Her character's more interesting when she has others to play off of or against.
the season-3 timeskip ruined any appeal this show might have had for me. they all adapt way too easily to the 31st century (which kinda makes sense in a way since it was so aesthetically inconsistent with tos), and upgrading the discovery to modern standards is a breeze. like, imagine if an 11th century viking longboat shows up and they have some amazing forgotten teleportation technology with them, so they are impressed into the united states navy and their ship is upgraded with steel plating and a nuclear reactor and a gun. for their part, the viking berserkers have no difficulty adapting to modern military protocol, ethics and tactics. after a few years of them saving America, president biden decides we don't need their teleporters so they decommision the ship and send it's crew to teach at the academy in annapolis, maryland. then fifty years later the longship is brought out of mothballs and refitted to look like it did in the middle aged for one last mission....
No matter what they say, the "Burnamverse" is in one of the TNG 'Parallels" episode's universes. The divergence was when Mary Sue was saved from dying as a child. In the actual canon universe, she died so none of STD nor SNW take place in the canon universe. The crossover episode of Lower Decks can be accounted for by having it not only have sent them back in time but also into the parallel Burnamverse or you could say that that version of Pike and crew were actually from the canon universe and go with an aesthetic television update and that the TOS aesthetic was just a visual representation limited by what was available at the time and that you can look at TOS have technically looked the same as SNW in universe.
The truth is that even though Discovery was objectively a bad show, I still enjoyed watching it every time a new episode premiered. I am going to miss your nitpicks.
I seem to remember in season 1 there was some talk about how using the spore drive was endangering the fabric of spacetime or something. Then that got forgotten, or possibly I've misremembered.
it was actually just the dead doctor's presence there that disturbed them . once they sent him back to the normal universe they didn't have any more problems I guess .
I think Season 1 is the least bad as it has the series only interesting character of Lorca. It also had the least over emotional therapy speak moments. Michael was much less of a Mary sue and less annoying. My thoughts was that the first season was interesting if you treat it as a show separate to Star Trek until it was ruin by twist of Lorca being from the mirror universe (Captain scarred by war is more interesting) and him not being moderated by his experience in the prime universe (if you must make him a mirror universe it would been interesting for the crew feeling betrayed by Lorca but be balanced that Lorca is objectively less evil than Emperor Georgiou especially Lorca experience working in a multialien crew and was successful). Since the mirror universe twist everything following has been garbage.
Your struggle to find a best season drives home what an awful job the writers and producers did with this. There are many great moments and a few good episodes (I’m partial to Sarek) but as someone who’s watched the earlier series over and over I seriously doubt I’ll ever watch much more than a few select episodes of this show ever again. Selah.
I admire you taking the time to rank the seasons. Personally I think it's very hard to rank them because each season is terrible in a different way from the others. Season 1 (at least the first half of it) is probably my favourite of the whole show because the characters were introduced and got decent screen time, Michael wasn't hogging the entire show, Tilly wasn't insufferable, Lorca was awesome, and the backdrop of the war was somewhat interesting (even if Starfleet's strategic approach turned out to be utterly baffling). I think I may also have been the only person in the world who didn't mind the redesign of the Klingons into a genuinely terrifying alien species. But season 1 has huge continuity problems, as NN points out. Season 2 has the moronic Control/AI/evil Georgiou plot line, which genuinely feels like it was written by ChatGPT. Season 3 starts well enough but descends into brain-dead stupidity by the end. Season 4 probably has the most interesting overall plot but there's not enough to sustain the 10 episodes so it ends up just being plain boring. And the less said about season 5, the better. So I find it impossible to rank the seasons because they're all bad for very different reasons. Thank you NN for guiding us through all of Discovery. Hopefully season 2 of Prodigy will be more rewarding!
There seem to be two camps out there: you either love S1+S2 or S3-S5. I liked the first 2 seasons the best as it wasn’t as predictable as the last 3 seasons. From season 3 on it became a soap opera to me, way too safe and predictable. I loathed all the crying, whispering and therapy sessions. my ranking from best to worst is S2, S1, S3, S5 and then the worst season of any show ever: S4.
Agreed. The first two seasons definitely had their problems but they were still a fun watch. I zoned out of season 4 because it was so dull. There aren't many Trek shows I've watched all the way through.
I didn't mind the way season 1 started but actually it felt like it went off the rails going away from Klingon war to spend the rest of the season in the Mirror Universe and then to come back and just wrap it up in a bow with Burnham being pardoned and given her commission back and even giving the comencement speech at Starfleet Academy??? WTF? Season 2 was pretty bad off the bat with the TARDIS like turbolifts and the Red Angel thing didn't make any sense and while Pike was fine, Spock was pretty bad and wasn't around for half of the season.
I remember I somewhat enjoyed “magic to make the sanest man go mad”. Now discovery is being lauded as “the show that brought back Star Trek” Yeah - everything that followed it was an attempt at course correction. And it’s mostly all been terrible.
The leftover alpha quadrant Hur'q's were the Klingons in season 1 who mated with human looking original Klingons on the homeworld resulting in what we were expecting from traditional trek Hur'q & original Klingon hybrids. This would explain alot of the variation in Klingons. Season one was different which is better than doing traditional trek really badly. Ranking best to worst: 1,2,3,4,5
@@scockery can u remember where. Thanks 👍 Even funnier is that Klingons discriminate against those who have original Klingon DNA like TOS era Klingons.
The first ten episodes weren't bad. It was a bit intriguing, like was Voq Tyler etc. Or like what did Lorca want. Once they started doing the mirror garbage it was all down hill Season 2 had some moments like New Eden and Sound of Thunder. Once they got into the future it became unwatchable
my hot take is that Season 1 was the best, although at midseason it got stupid and the ending was way stupid. Season 2 started out like it might be better than Season 1 but the fact that the thing they're chasing was all based on Michael, basically, took me out of it. the ending of every season was the weakest part of each season. You call out the prequel continuity issues, which is a fair criticism, but I'd say most of it is visual and I didn't mind so much. I felt like, my unpopular opinion, the Klingons looking that way was perfect for the specific story they were telling. The 32nd century stories felt like missed opportunities to be amazing, all the references to past stuff was unnecessary.
Yes. In retrospect I like season 1 more than I did at the time. Pity about the long detour into the mirrorverse and the daft ending. But this is Disco, we can't expect too much.
@@alanpennie it's kinda goofy to think that Michael would still be in prison if not for her mirror universe counterpart getting it on with Discovery's captain.
The Hur'q has fallen long ago though, and given they were from the Gamme quadrant, they were most likely wiped out by the dominion, which was in existence at the time, but smaller. The Hur'qs aggressive nature probably made them a prime target for the dominion, and not one they would be satisfied to just subjugate. But of course such details in continuity is not something they would care about in nutrek.
Season 1 threw existing Star Trek under the bus but would have worked as a non-Trek show, season 2 became idiotic but at least had Captain Pike, season 3 and 4 were just boring.
I think season 1 and season 2 were a toss up. I think we forgive the flaws of season 2 more easily because the flaws of season 1 were so bad. They continued onto season 2. Seasons 3-5 were an absolute abomination. They should have cancelled the show after season 2. The Burn was just too stupid. They could have thrown a wrench in the works in a more tasteful way. I was shocked that they were still using dilithium crystals and warp drive technology in the 32nd century. The Discovery wasn't really absolute in the 32nd century which was insulting. Programmable matter? That's the best thing they could come up with? Also, portable transporters were established in the 4th TNG movie so it wasn't a shock. What was stupid is that all they had to do was tap on the communicator and it just took them there without saying anything. They didn't explain how that worked. It would have made more since if they tapped on it and said "bridge" and it took them there.
How do you feel about the visual of them, since ENT fixed a massive continuity problem with a pretty good 3 parter giving a good explanation, and then they just undo it all, and shit all over all the other writers and makeup artists work?
For me it basically gets worse season to season except season 2 was almost tied with season1 for best and in total honesty I havent watched seasons 4 and 5 dont know if I will. Season 3 was the worst sorry billions dying because of a cry baby is weak AF!
Maybe it's because I don't like Enterprise, but the reveal that Dr. Glasses is Daniels fell completely flat to me. I would rather it be any other character from any other Star Trek show.
It felt like a last minute addition. If they had teased it a few times in seasons 4 and 5, like him knowing suspiciously much about captain Archer, a slip of the tongue perhaps, revealing he met Archer, but not outright saying so, I think it would have worked a lot better, and they could have had some TOS, TAS, VOY, ENT artifact in his collection.
I don't think I could rank seasons but I could take out a few stories. There was Burnham releasing the Tardigrade, saving the mycelium network, and saving Ariel. There was Eden with Pike, and Stormy Weather where Saru loses his fear and commits mutiny. Most of the Klingon stuff and the mirror universe stuff and Spock stuff are all unforgivable for me. Season 2 with the Red Angels suit and the evil AI is farce, And even what they did to Pike is terrible and just terrible member berries. Season 5 we now know is pointless, except Raynor telling Tilly to ef Herself. The opening of season 3 is a joke and you had Burnham on drugs and She is completely unwatchable and you realize she's just a terrible actress. The reason for the burn was absurd and ridiculous even in Star Trek. Season 4 was really boring as we had to be told in flashback about Tarkas. And then it made Book a villain which is unforgivable. And then there was the Arrival movie at the end which looked good, but the way it affected character was negligible. So it's 50 odd episodes. Recall that t&g had 50 episodes before it became good. And you could probably pick 50 Voyager episodes that were pretty bad as well.
Imo, STD was pretty consistent with the seasons from good to bad season 1 and the first half of 2 was eh it's alright but season 3 onwards is just dogshit, alot of crying, background music overlaying with their already whispering dialogue, roller coaster camera became the standard and other inconsistent continuity, at that point it's mandatory switch off your brain, ears and eyes to decently enjoy smelling the show.
The characters in Discovery were just insufferable, and it only got worse with each season. In my opinion, season 1 was not great, and it only got worse with every season from there.
I forgot about the guy with booker until I noticed his picture top right. Each season is instantly forgettable. I liked the character of Saru as he actually seemed to act like a starfleet officer. Lorca was good because of the actor not the writing. Section 31 badge… FFS! Detached nacelles, sporedrive, the Klingons, Tilly, whispering and crying; all terrible.
