I was gonna timestamp my favorite points that you made, but you made a lot 😂. I’ll just say this instead. The absolute perfect cameo would have been Jeffrey Combs as the Progenitor that Michael meets. Would have given this season a 10/10 if they did that 🤣🤣.
OMG that would have been hilarious . would have explained why his likeness is in so many aliens LOL . I will try to deepfake him as the Progenitor in an edit . thanks for the idea :D
@@NitpickingNerd Yo sick! 🤩 I just saw someone make a meme about it a while back and was kinda hoping they might do it, but didn’t really expect them to.
@@NitpickingNerd as for the bit at 20:25.... Why not both? :D No really. TOS introduced the idea of tech older than the universe. Things that logically CAN'T exist.... unless out fundamental concept of reality is wrong. Mysteries our minds cannot fathom that our beyond the scope of our understanding. Which WOULD give Burned ham a reason to bump it in the black hole. She is smart enough to know she can't use it safely.
I promise you, this episode will add nothing to your life if you watch it. It will only waste the time you could have spent on something more worthy. I'm poorer for watching it
Today we would think that something in a black hole could not escape. Are we to think that in the 32nd century? Don't they use wormholes all the time to go from one place to another? And why didn't the original people just do that throw it in a black hole? Isn't the whole point of the season that they could protect this information until a time comes when the people could use it?
No way was he going to support Matalas’ Legacy show concept. It would be like showing the execs above him (that renew his lucrative SecretHideOut contract) that this producer who’s a genuine fan of the franchise is getting it ‘right’ and the fans of 90s Trek are still here and ready to embrace their beloved Star Trek again. Instead he just doubles down on his dystopian Discovery vision and gives us a 32nd century Academy show nobody asked. Kurtzman has got very wealthy from the contract with (once CBS, now Paramount) He is not going to give up his throne easily. And I imagine someone like Matalas threatens him. I believe it was a mandate from above Kurtzman, to give a producer known to be a Star Trek fan the reins of Picard Season 3. The first two seasons had done badly, they wanted to throw a bone to the old fans. But no way would Kurtzman admit his vision has been the wrong approach.
Classsic Kurtzman: Mystery box in a mystery box. JFC they completely obliterated the Trek lore with this show. I can no longer read Memory Alpha (one of my favorite activities years ago) because of NuTrek. Thanks a lot, Kurtzman, thanks a lot, Spock Helmets
Yes! This is a massive crime. You want to read about Spock? Tough shit, the article is now peppered with NuTrek bollocks. I wish someone had forked MA in 2007 or so. 😢
This extends even to books. I’m careful now to check the publication date on all Trek books I buy. Ideally published in the last millennium, but sometimes up till 2008. Never, ever, later.
There is still a snapshot of Memory Alpha on internet archive from when Discovery was just starting. It has a lot less rot than the current version. Lower Decks' cheap referential humor alone has spread more rot on MA than anything else.
@@jimjam51075 haven't checked MA lately, but yeah, I can imagine how LD could be destroying it. So sad. I wish I could get that snapshot for offline use easily...
STD will be an example in schools on what happens when show runners don't care and you split up episodes within seasons to multiple writers and producers who don't communicate with each other and all have their own ideas. Studios cheaping out by paying multiple cheap producers so they don't have to pay one or two leads more money to have a consistent creative vision. It's not the only show that does this, many on Netflix, shows like Halo. A new producer and writer for each episode. Studios make decisions cause of money and/or control, even if it costs quality. So we have to assume they are making shit TV this way because it's cheap enough to deal with upset fans, or no one producer/writer/etc can't put their name on the show and make them too important to get rid of or not pay well. It makes shows like Fallout almost seem like a miracle in this world, though even THAT had some new producers/writer an episode issue as well. I'm sure this has happened in the past as well, but it just seems REALLY bad compared to then.
If fans don’t make it, it won’t be good, but unfortunately for most sci-fi they do tend to be mainly white straight males, so due to modern sensibilities they must replace them all with diverse minorities of other races, sexes & genders in order to ’revitalise the franchise’ for all these people who don’t want to watch it. It’s the rules.
My first thought upon hearing Michael destroyed the thing was that maybe it wasn't hers to control, but it wasn't hers to destroy either. All five seasons, in my opinion, have incredibly weak endings.
Pretty sure the fans of this show fall for all those "only for geniuses" basic math puzzles where numbers are replaced with animals and emojis (obvously spotting that there's a second duck hiding behind the first one in the third equation requires genius level brain)
Yeah, the whole 'ancient transport system' angle is straight out of Contact. And the idea of it being a tool/weapon that could create or destroy life across the galaxy is straight out of Stargate SG-1.
the last scene should have been zora pleading for her life not to have to wait for a thousand years, reminding burnham that that is torture to a sentient beeing, etc. like end REALLY DARK
When you mentioned the triangle puzzle, I hurried to my kids and crafted a paper puzzle. The 10-year-old solved it in seconds with fewer clues than Sheen Hati had (only emphasizing that it must be between). The 7-year-old required more patience; I had to provide a similar volume of clues as Sheen Hati. As a reward for their solution, there was no access to Progenitor tech, but they gained 2 hours on the Nintendo Switch. If you are a parent, do that puzzle with kids, it is fun. That is a positive thing I have from STD.
Wait, so her name was actually "Sheen Hati"? I thought Nerd was sarcastically calling her "Sheen Hottie" :> Like BirdOPrey5 used to say "admiral Vance, Vance Refrigeration"
@@JanMichalSzulew No, it is NitpickingNerd's sarcastic alias to character because STD writers steal content from other shows. Her name was Moll or something.
The show runner said that the finale was the episode before - which is the one with Peter Weller - and this was 'an epilog'. And it's great character development of Trip and how all the other characters related to him and how he sacrificed himself for the Enterprise.
All the hand to hand combat just drove me nuts throughout the whole story, ok it’s more exciting and visually interesting, but they're doing it even when they're meant to be being quiet & secret, yet they can manifest any device now, defensive, offensive, medical, anything at anytime can appear instantly in their hand, but not when really needed.
I feel a lot of dumb things happen because A) its the norm or B) its how it happened in old trek, completely ignoring their own setting. Like season 3 and 4 had ships spamming photon torpedoes, which sure, looked weird and different, but its been 800 years, maybe they can replicate photon torpedoes now. But nah, season 5 is back to classic phasers and torpedoes, looking like every other series' armament. Also for some reason they forgot Quantum torpedoes and other types were invented in later seasons of other shows.
How about the fact that they screwed over all the other characters except Michael? Nobody gets any kind of real resolution but her. Saru gets married. Tilly gets one line about how she’s still at the Academy. That’s it. Nothing about the brilliant engineer, Stamets, nothing about Dr. Culber. And the best character they’ve come up with in five seasons, Rayner, gets no promotion back to captain, gets no resolution whatsoever. He just made nice with everyone and that’s all he gets. Awful.
Every character in this show sucked by the end. They all had potential in season 1 but were each ruined more and more by poor writing. All to push gay/dei agendas. There was no need if it’s real Star Trek 🖖🏻
The way they finally explained Calypso was just dumb, and the whole season in general was for nothing because Michael predictably went the "it's too dangerous for anyone to have so I must destroy it" route. Here's hoping the next seasons of Lower Decks and Prodigy do better.
Also, take a look at her suit full of useless belts and fabric. But she is bleeding out badly without any possibility to reduce the blooddrain, absolutly doomed.
I was thinking that Kovich (thanks to the references like Picards wine, Siskos baseball, and so on) would give Michael hand and then would transform into Q (because of all the memorabilia, Q was in all of those shows with those people which memorabilia Kovich had there, there was NO SINGLE memoribilia from ST: Enterprise) and he would say something like that the judgement of humanity is at its end (thanks to Michael refusing to use the Progenitors tech), and that the Continuum created the tech to test the morality of the species that use it. But no...
I thought during the fight scene on the fire planet they would land next to Obi-Wan and Anakin with the lightsabers going, and Moll would be burned to a crisp or something. And the end scenes all look like the Nexus, where all their dreams came true until they woke up and got away.👩🚀
I was rather expecting the whole thing to be revealed to be a dream with Michael eventually revealed to be still in the Progenitor Facility after agreeing to be the new guardian.
they also had a lot of explosive gas on the bridge. The hole time it looked like a budged pyro show. Maybe somebody was playing with a lighter and a bottle of hair spray.
When I saw Geordies visor I thought “what if he had super lungs? Like he could breathe in any atmosphere, or hold his breath for days. Would THEY be on his shelf”? It just struck me as dumb that he had what were effectively the man’s EYES on his shelf.
When season 5 started I was a little mad that they gave the archeology scavenger hunt to Burnham instead of Picard. Now that it's finished it didn't even matter. It was just such an empty season again. In hindsight the first couple of season's were the "best", whatever that even means. The finale in that regard is much like the whole season, there's nothing of substance. We get some Burnham fist fighting, of course, but in the grand scheme of things we don't get any answers or any interesting dialogue.
I dropped out after season 2 and I don't regret it. It has none of the things I loved about the old shows, for instance, stage-play-like scenes, light-hearted and self-deprecating humour, weaving deep philosophical and political questions into plots and giving both sides of the argument a fair hearing, love to detail regarding canon and aestetics... essentially substance over style. In fact, Discovery is almost the diametrical opposite.
💯 *Star Trash: Disaster* - a circle jerk of space Jesus _constantly_ crying and whispering because who needs logic, perspective, accountability, humility, etc. when that would take work!
What is so powerful about the Progenitor tech that demands that it be thrown into a black hole? Starfleet had the Genesis Device more than 900 years ago. Cloning into a golem is commonplace now which essentially make you immortal -- which makes the Burnham and Book getting old scene even more ridiculous. They have programmable matter and ships with floating nacelles. I didn't see anything in that portal that would make me think it was dangerous technology. As we find out, it doesn't even allow one to become immortal. I don't get it.
The series Sliders had a world that was all on fire... apparently the fire being a life form. With Sliders being a series of jumping/sliding through a portal to an alternate Earth, the Discovery fire planet accessible through an Iconian portal reminds me of that Sliders episode.
@@specie8470 It was so bad. This Discovery finale was a million times better than anything from that last season of Sliders. At least it was visually nice. Once Jerry O'Connell left the show was doomed. Poor Wade.
8:15 I've been thinking about it all day, it's Burnham attacking Moll and then during the fight she asks to stop and make peace. But why did she start attack in the first place?
When i was watching it i was VERY confused when Moll attacked the Breen, then Michael help Moll to stopp the bleeding and suggest cooperation, then attacking her, then ask for cooperation, then being attacked by Moll and then Michael tries to save Moll from the electric buzzing by touching her and then my brain stopped thinking at all
thanks for reviewing the last seasons, I didn't have will even to fastforward through the new one, after I had to torture myself writing down how many times per episode characters cried. I can share the numbers if you are interested btw
The humanoid figure from the future that Suliban Silik played by John Fleck had contact to in few episodes in Star Trek Enterprise was played by actor James Horan, who played Tosin in Star Trek Voyger episode Fair Trade and other characters in Star Trek series ☺ John Fleck have also played Romulans and other species in Star Trek Series ☺
Gateways look like Star Wars Clone Wars World Between Worlds of Space and Time… I’m annoyed that they set up spinoffs like Daniel, Moll, and Mikey Jr…😩
That portal/place looks like the World-between-Worlds from the Ahsoka tv show. Their version of the Progenitor is a female Yakub lol Also why destroy the portal? Couldn't they keep it stored in a Starfleet secured base like the Genesis Device in STPicard?
are you serious? They ended the series by letting a moody child throw a tantrum? "No! WE CAN'T KEEP THIS BECAUSE IT'S TOOO POWERFUL!" Okay, your ship needed to be destroyed from the beginning by that logic because the technology is stupidly beneficial.
Spore jumping the Breen ship is a good idea... except that the Breen ship doesn't have the same inertial dampners Discovery has, and probably turned everyone in that ship to street pizza (look back at STD S1 with the other Discovery type vessel). Then again, they're slime or something so they could be okay.
I'd like to see all the non-humanoid Star Trek aliens band together and file a class-action lawsuit against all the races that came from the progenitors. They were unfairly advantaged, and most of what they've done throughout galactic history has been fighting endless wars and ruining the galaxy. Time for the Tholians, and the space jellyfish, and the green candle ghost, and The Sheliak to get reparations.
Is there anything ruling out Daniels from being Future Guy too? Like he’s doing a Palpatine and manipulating multiple sides of the temporal war due to some other convoluted red directive. Although, I met the actor who was playing future guy at a convention while Enterprise was still on, and he asked our group who we thought Future Guy was, and we were calling out different characters that actor didn’t play, but then he got mad and said, “No way. I’m Future Guy.”
In the middle of this video you say: "What was the point of this season if the Progenitors didn't create all life?" You might as well ask: "What was the point of the last 5 seasons of Discovery?" Or honestly, maybe you should just be happy it is over. Though I do think, even if they screwed up the portals making them two-way instead of one way, the implication really is that the Ikonians are the true Progenitors; much of this tech looks exactly like Ikonian tech, down to the triangles and having Molly get electrocuted. By the way, after five years of calling Micheal wooden, you can't be surprised that wood doesn't conduct electricity.
Did anyone notice that Michael was no longer wearing the Breen outfit immediately after waking up from when she entered the portal. Its shown she is waking up and its the Starfleet combat outfit. I doubled check the previous episode, she ran into the portal with the Breen outfit, and specifically with the Green Science icon on it. To then, next episode, it is Starfleet. I am surprised @NitpickingNerd didn't catch that, or maybe I missed it mentioned.
Terraforming and cloning device that can't even replicate memories. To spread life across worlds behind the portals. Not much differences from the genesis project. How the Breen were supposed to destroy the federation with this technology is unknown to us.
To be fair, Michael does say in the episode that she’s going to consult with the admiral and Dr. Kovich before tossing it away. Also, don’t forget, they were trying to keep it out of anyone else’s hands, not just the Breen. They wanted to get ahold of it to safeguard it before the Breen even knew about it. So tossing it away was to keep it from anyone else’s hands at all. Not just the Breen.
She said that but also immediately added: I know they will agree with me and come to the same conclusion. As if there was never the slightest doubt in her mind that there could be a valid opinion out there that was different from hers.
MajorGrin, the fact that those gateways could be very easily accessed from the planet, but are difficult to enter from the main portal is clearly a reference to The Simpsons, where Burns and Smithers enter the secret chamber after undergoing like half a dozen security features, only for them to encounter a stray dog in the chamber, that entered through the open service door.
I would have written that Discovery had already been restored and placed into a Museum. Then pulled out because of the Red Directive. Ever since they said time travel tech was outlawed, I thought "BS, someone will still have it." So I would have revealed that since Kovich is supposedly Daniels, he's got the only time travel tech left. And he still protects the timeline... That's why he has paper, because he can still travel through time. So 50 years in the Future, now Michael is charged with it. So she knows that this Craft guy has to be rescued in the future, because he can save the universe or something afterward. They leave Discovery out there because it has antique tech, so that no one will want to steal it... Story gymnastics but it still kinda works.
old michael with that new uniform looked more like a real star trek officer than all the time before, because in modern shows everybody has to be young and hip, which doesn't work at all.
This season would’ve been more interesting if the plot revolved around a villain that is from a dark dimension where luminosity is despised. The villain wants to reduce the luminosity of every star in the Milky Way galaxy thus eliminating lens-flares.
Its over its finally over!!!!!!!!!! I felt a great disturbance in the force as if millions of people cried out in relief in realization that this nightmare has finally ended.
I wouldn't worry about shin hoti becoming an ally just because she's evil, let's not forget Michael started episode 1 as a convicted murderer, and she became captain.
The tech, at least the tech they were concerned with was really just a galactic level industrial scale cloning machine and replicator combined. That is very powerful, of course being able to make a bunch of people in presumably a snap, or a planet with a full ecosystem in a snap. But the lineal pocket of space time adjacent to their own, is a pretty impressive tech too. To be able to speak across time in a place where time doesn't pass. Is that not a tech that might be worth keeping? Or what about being able to upload all of existence into your mind? Surely we shouldn't destroy that tech.
no one ever said anything about creating anything in a snap. the progenitors from TNG said they simply seeded planets with their DNA and it still took it billions of years to evolve
@@NitpickingNerd The reason I would think it could be done in a snap, is because of the lineal space where time doesn't pass. You do everything you need to do in the construct, and when you hit the Enter key, it all pops into regular space time. The Progenitors seeding took billions of years, but could they have done it in a snap, and chose not to?
@@kennyhudson9201 you're referring to Michael's conversation with the progenitor which basically happened inside her mind through the device (maybe transferred her to some pocket of time outside of normal time) . but the place with the portals was in normal time , since we even saw michael getting a real-time transmission from Book
@@NitpickingNerd That is true. And the life creating stuff is likely done there in the real time area. I was thinking that the tech is just a galactic scale industrial cloning machine and replicator combined. And since replicators are pretty much in the blink of an eye, I assume things can just appear in the universe wherever they want, because surely they aren't moving planets around. Also, because she is concerned about the creation of an army, it must be at a scale and speed that no other, even possibly conceivable, thing could be done to counter it.
36:41 I'm glad I wasn't alone in thinking that was a good place to end it. I saw the runtime still had twenty minutes left (or something like that) and thought it was a mistake. Then it kept going. I can't help but wonder if they were going to end it there. However, once they found out this was the last season, I think they added the rest to do the big sad goodbye thing. Was it truly a sad goodbye? Everyone is different, I'm sure yes for some, not at all for others. But then I think, yes it was supposed to be, but really, what are we saying goodbye to? How many have said that it feels like we don't even truly know the crew as an example. I admit I'd more or less moved on before this season and wondered if we really needed another season. Things changed enough between each season that to me they all feel at least somewhat disconnected from each other. But, that could just be me. Maybe it's also the time between this and the previous season. I don't know what to think overall. I think it really would have been better to go with ending it at the earlier time in the episode. I.e., go with the idea that the adventure continues, even if we don't see it. I think a lot of people wouldn't care to see it but I think that would have been better then trying to force an emotional ending.
I guess on the Kardashev scale, the progenitors would be a Type III Civilization, or maybe 2.5, since they were using only 2 black holes as a power source.
It seems that The Rise of Sky Walker became the model for all sci-fi to our great horror. There are some people that think I'm full of it when I say that Star Trek Discovery is just about Micheal Burnham. They also say that I'm crazy for thinking STD isn't for a diverse audience. CBS made the show for women. Something like 95% of all leadership is female. SNW may have a man that is captain, but the entire ship is run by women. I don't even know why they killed off the Orion chief engineer to be replaced by an annoying, eccentric woman. What happened to Gene Roddenberry's 50/50 rule with men and women? Yeah, TOS had more men than women, but it was the sixties. Why is it sexist and racist to want equality among genders and races?
I had to look that up because these are 2 shows that are in my mind dumpster bin. As soon as google brought it up I said “OHHH YEAHHH, predictable”. From April 17: Star Trek: Discovery’s Elias Toufexis Addresses Fans Comparing Eve Harlow’s Moll To Ahsoka’s Shin Hati, And He Didn't Hold Back.
@@OffendingTheOffendableI mean, she’s the type guys who are about to go for boys date before they accept what they are 🤣😂 I live around one of those and they really think they are fine. Look at your history lady.🤣😂
3:30. One of the most idiotic scenes…and yet one would think this infinite corridor realm would be invaded by creatures, birds bugs, and other aliens by now.
Thank the Lords of Kobal this show is over! It is now time for us to all go into recovery. My sponsor said that I need to watch The Best of Both Worlds I & II and also The Last Generation.
I disagree that Michael was humble to pass up the curator job. She was selfish because she wanted to marry Book more than she wanted to sacrifice her life for a good cause. She had no right to deny the galaxy of a second chance to create life just because she found the job inconvenient. Her 'end line' that "maybe" the OG would make another device when needed was irresponsible.
yes I agree that it's stupid because there was no logical reason to get rid of the technology . they were just trying to make her look humble / wise but it doesn't work in the context of what they set up
If the gateways are constantly open from the planet side then it would be very easy for anyone on each world to access the progenitor tech just by jumping through it.
The stupid triangle puzzle reminds me of the sequence of numbers that Spock was repeating in season two and nobody could figure out what it was until Michael realized it’s a location written in reverse! We live in a world where Fast and Furious has smarter writing than Star Trek.
2:36 If only there was a scanning device that was introduced in TOS and used in all the Trek shows pre-Kurtzman that she could use to determine if these things were safe to touch, etc.
The progenitors awesome technology is incapable of creating a clone of a person that has the same memories, yet a simple transporter accident created Thomas Riker
They have Khan blood, and they have Soong for transferring memories to digital, how much is before meeting the progenitors we should be able to revive him. Also don't take him out of stasis to talk to him because that makes his brain decay even more.
