I am no fan of nationalisation on a large scale. But for monopoly industries like water and rail it does make some sense. Certainly competition is not the case. To play devils advocate do you trust elected governments more or less than private companies?
@@lloydjones7925At the end of approx five years we can replace a government, I don't believe we've yet got to much beyond " f**k off you peasants " in terms of our influence with private companies. They are mostly holding hands and on the same page but if the government had extra responsibility that they could be judged on perhaps we might begin to see some change. ( I'm not sure I even believe that last sentence tbf 😂)
@bdoc1924 I would love to see some change but I'm not holding my breath. I'm just young enough to have no memory of public owned water, so I have no experience of how that works. Politics is a whole separate issue that needs some work to put it lightly.
@@lloydjones7925 Well, Lloyd, the standing accusation made by Neo-liberal and rightwing governments is that public entities are fundamentally inefficient, which in some cases might not be untrue, yet the same can be said of private corporations, except that the private sector can’t be investigated in the same way that the public sector can. So basically, by privatising national utilities, like water, the government no longer shoulders the same responsibility for that entity. This is what’s called “Small Government”. This is why the argument for the theory that the private sector is more efficient is BS, or at best misleading. And while a private company might be more efficient than it’s public counterpart, how are we to know if the private sector is not publically accountable or cannot be assessed? Of course, most end users don’t care about utility ownership as long as what comes out at their end is usable and affordable. But you’d expect, wouldn’t you, that if a public utility is found to be inefficient that it should be the government’s job to make it efficient? But the Tories (since Thatcher) have never wanted to do that because they’d rather create capital growth with public service organisations which can be floated on the Stockmarket. So to you and I, if our water utility was re-nationalised it would make very little difference to us personally. But within the organisation all profits (theoretically) should go back into maintaining and upgrading the infrastructure, which again comes down to good management, and government and public scrutiny. But never mind how it works. Do you want these utility corporations to be accountable? Yes, or no?
@@lloydjones7925This is why we must call for Direct Digital Democracy without parties or politicians. Citizen initiated referendums with thresholds and a social contract means Communities can vote their own laws. As well as a Public Authority to audit police and prosecute bad actors in our own courts. Thorium energy renders their global energy monopoly obsolete
@@PORRRIDGE_GUN the profit motive here means that the infrastructure is no longer fit for purpose, people who have paid for that service will likely have to pay again, through increased prices, to bail out the company. Essential services should be nationalised.
It's not the country but the government, and the real problem is the fact that nobody held those private companies responsible when it was apparent things weren't working.....
This is corporate prirating 101. Harvest all the money from the company and funnel into investors’ pockets where it cannot be recovered, destroy the environment, then leave the public holding the bag for the cleanup.
Unfortunately, the pension fund system would then be left holding the bag for that. See, the pension fund system in Britain tends to benefit the most, and has actually come to rely on this to a dangerous degree. Banning it might well cause the complete collapse, Liz Truss-style, of the pension fund system, but then again the British economy is failing so badly that if somebody sneezes, there is a pension fund crisis...
@@unconventionalideas5683 that's sort of where we are now with the privatization model. Why that instead of closing tax loopholes, and bringing utilities back into public ownership when contracts run out? If our taxes, and our purchases actually go into improving services and conditions on a local / national level, and growing the public purse instead of subsidizing the private sector, then ending up in tax havens, that's not going to hurt the pension pot.
And Quentin even mentioned at the end of his opinion that the public would buy it back and "hope to make a profit when they sell it on again" - it really is impossible for conservatives of any stripe to admit the failure of their ideology, even when it's costing them an arm and a leg...
Thames Water was used as a money laundering vehicle. Load the company with lots of debt and then pay most of that out to a few at the top. As for fixing the infrastructure the captive customers can pay for that. Another example of the dictatorship of Capital.
Yeah, except that who are the shareholders exactly? I'm not trying to support the corporations, but there are a great many ordinary people, who keep their savings (or liquid assets) with fund managers, investment brokers, etc, who might not actually know what corporations they hold shares in. This includes pension funds as well. This is why privatisation stinks and should never have been allowed to happen. Indeed, this was foreseeable.
It's like asking slave and plantation owners and investors to pay reparations back to the slaves they exploited. That's how it works in a capitalist's mind.
What have the shareholders done? They didn't decide to abandon any plans to maintain / upgrade the network, siphon money out to friends with contracts, pay themselves huge salaries and bonuses - they might have been paid some dividends but some of those people will have used that cheque to heat their homes, they're not the bad guys.
@@chewy6349 Quite so, Chewy. The majority of shareholders are made up of millions of ordinary people, like you, me, and perhaps even Christina, with tiny pocket shares. But what about the £$Billions worth of pension funds that are tied up in shares?
Many have, but it's fell deaf ears because UK politicians are opposed to public ownership no matter what the cost to the country, its ideology over reality.
I like Owen, im not even in the UK, im an Aussie, but i watch his videos a lot . My Mum is English, so i have always taken an interest in British politics, you guys seem to have a lot to deal with at the moment, as we all do. Yeah i find his videos, and yours, to be very well thought out, and very informative, and politically spot on,so its great to see him getting exposure on TV, hes obviously working a lot behind the scenes as well. Its very inspiring for me as a 58 year old lefty, to see young people that turned on, and capable of getting the word out. Good on you guys keep up the fantastic work.☮️☯️
I live in Scotland, we pay our water through our council tax and it's OK, there are still a few leaks but our beaches are not contaminated with sewage, they are clean. The water is cold though 😀
@@hl6876 I saw it in a harbour, after a swim off the neighbouring beach. Coming out of a pipe. It was food for thought. One I try to put out of my mind. Bring back Lidos? I have only been for a smattering of swims in Scotland. I turned blue, and it was an interesting experience. Lol.
I live in the Scottish Borders and used to love taking my dogs to the nearest beach to play in the water (which is over the border on the English side), and now I wouldn't even let my dogs go in the water never mind one of my children. IT IS DISGUSTING!!!! This sums Britain up!!!!!
@@annemoncrieff3875 There are sewage spills in Scotland too. Yes we might be better with a nationalised water company, so no huge salaries and shareholder dividends, but it's far from perfect north of the border.
no we just get sent to jail for calling humza useless a cretin, letting male rapists into womens prisions, voting for a party that has failed in every metric for 14yrs, destroyed the eviroment, cut funding for every single council for 10yrs, built 1 out of 8 promised hospitals, missed every single SNHS target, put people in jail for jokes, get put in jail for not paying council tax, worst drug deaths in europe, rising crime. Scotland is so much better under the SNP than the tories.
I moved up yo Scotland last year, the cleanliness of the water up here, especially around the coast, compared to England is night and day. There are beaches up here that are like any you would see in the carribean, the water is crystal clear. Scotland is showing the rest of the UK how its done
Why is it that everything has to make a profit? Profiteering on essential services now shows that the services dont actually serve the needs of the consumer but fill the company owners pockets with money. Privatisation has demonstrably failed.
Have you read any Rutger Bregman ? If not, get your hands on his books, " Utopia " and " Humankind ", superb stuff mapping out the truth of our past behaviours and choices as a species and a roadmap out of the shit storm that's been created for us. Basically everything you've been told about human nature and what is and isn't intrinsic to us is a lie, or at the very best built on a lie.
Nationalise water. Then do the Railways. Then Energy. After those, have a look at everything else and see what's working for the general public of this country or, more accurately, what isn't and then start nationalising those.
I never really understood the argument that nationalising the railways would cost a fortune. If you just wait long enough or until a franchise fails they come back into public ownership anyway.
@@davidgriffithsbjjcoach7207 Except in all of the cases that they get bailed out instead. If they make a profit it goes into their pockets, if they run up debt it comes out of our pockets - such a fair system.
People in Scotland do not get water bills. We don't have water meters and therefore do not get charged by a prvate company for usage. We pay council tax, which is still lower than England
Yeah so they can take money from nhs or other state services to fund. 🙄 Its best in British hands not forgein with regulation of no profit if targets not met.
This is why we must call for Direct Digital Democracy without parties or politicians. Citizen initiated referendums with thresholds and a social contract means Communities can vote their own laws. As well as a Public Authority to audit police and prosecute bad actors in our own courts. Thorium energy renders their global energy monopoly obsolete
In Scotland we pay an annual flat rate that is incorporated into our council tax bill. We don’t have water meters which I understand are common in England
@@helpmboab2034nó you pay council tax which pays for the water. Very different things. Im guessing your american from your comment. I suggest you read a book beyond the bible..
People don't realise how much we can lose without the SNP. So many better services, free prescriptions, free university, free dentists for all under 26, free buses for all under 23, fairer disability benefits, free 30 hours of high quality childcare, baby boxes, nurses bursaries, Scottish child payments, Scottish welfare fund, we don't have thousands of schools crumbling with a risk of death to pupils and staff, they have protected our right to roam and wild camp, our teachers are better paid, we have the best performing A&E, there's so much more I could write, and that's all despite Tory cuts and having to subside things like the bedroom tax because of them. People in England are brainwashed by Tory media against the SNP, even those who don't like the Tories, it still biases them, they just can't see it. They should be asking why the Tories don't provide the same and instead writing off billions in fraud because they don't want to go to after themselves and their rich donors for corrupt covid contracts, not attack us for having it.
@gabrieljean-batiste2006 consequences of decisions should fall on those making the decision. In a completely free market the ultimate decision lies with the customer. In the utility market the decisions rest with the shareholders. In the English system customers cannot chose their suppliers, it is the financial institutions that decide through share ownership, which is why I suggest taxation on that ownership. As for legality, that is defined by the government, especially when we don't have a preeminent doctrine like a written constitution.
There won’t be dividends whilst the company is not financially healthy (that’s a regulatory thing). I don’t think there were any rulings against dividends during the decades of neglect and raw sewage dumping.
@mynewcolour fines are always paid by tax payers, either directly through their bills or by the company deducting it from their tax liabilities by reducing profits
The average QUARTERLY water bill in S.Europe is 15-20 euros and no hose pipe bans ever. The companies are state-owned of course and the water is clean to swim in..
@Kryojenix are you joking? mainstream media only allow progressive voices on their platforms, corporate media is ten times worse for only allowing status quo voices.
Also of course Scotlands water companies will have debt how are you meant to invest if you don't leverage money. The issue with the private companies is we see that almost all of that debt wouldn't exist if it wasn't for profits being extracted, showing that is what their debt is being used for.
Privatised utilities and services have been asset-stripped beyond belief. Basic maintenance has been cut back to the point where the decimated workforce cannot keep up. And yet the Tories cannot bring themselves to admit that it has all been a catastrophe and even where they talk of taking companies back into public ownership they insist that it is only a temporary measure.
Water companies have debt because they paid out all their money to shareholders. Not because they fixed the sewers, not because they spent billions sorting out leaking pipes, not because they are in the slightest bit interested in sewage going into streams, because these arseholes all live abroad. They don't care if our sea is full of sewage, or if our rivers are 75% raw sewage. They are in France. In Holland. In Spain. THEY don't have sewage in their rivers because they use British people's ever increasing water costs on keeping THEIR water clean, and the rest is paid to shareholders. Water, Gas, Electricity has profiteered over service. Now, these utilities have to come back into public ownership, where the money can go into keeping bills lower and allow clean water in streams and rivers, the sea and beaches. Privatisation has ALWAYS been a disaster and it's time to stop it permanently.
Not when you compare him against the other long list of charlatans that would also find themslves on the list of `so called´english journalists, I`m afraid to say!.
*ABSOLUTELY STUNNED* how Truss & Kwartang can walk the streets being safe from harm. During Kwartang & Liz Truss's term, the mini-budget resulted in a depreciation of Pound Sterling, an expected increase in interest rates affecting future mortgage rates, and financial instability. Currency fluctuates, but the enormous spook in the market during their period is still being felt today. The interest rates rose exponentially after the mini-budget & ain't recovered since. The verm1n were the clear catalyst. Martin Lewis said somet similar & I rate he knows his onions. I hope all the (none OxBridge, Windsor, Kensington, Mayfair silver spoon licking) - hard working Brit's who make this country great, all the best during these difficult times. Before we know it the Tories will be dust, rear view mirror legacy stuff - & order of equilibrium will be restored. For now, let us think about how these Torie white collar gangsters get ''aligned'.''
@@keithparker1346 the other points he was reading, I think he just threw that in on the end assuming it was probably right, unless someone chucked it down the earpiece at him hoping no-one would pick up on it.
The tory still slipped in "hopefully makes a profit". Providing water should be at cost not profit and it is not just good water from the taps it is clean beaches and rivers. Congratulating the tory who failed to investigate as a journalist the failed water companies even after they destroyed rivers, seas and the shell fish industry seems a little hollow to me.
It seems self defeating for the water company's not to reinvest,, the only logical conclusion of that is they expect the government to bail them out as they dish out dividends like smarties...
Well yeah. Obviously they do expect that. And why wouldn't they? The Tories like it when corrupt businesses take public money for no benefit to the taxpayer. They just love class war & picking the pockets of anyone who isn't as rich as them! Even a different government is forced to take one of three options: Continue to bail out the water companies, spending public money to line their pockets. Let everyone die from impure water or lack of water. Renationalise. (To state the obvious once more, this is the only good option).
That's exactly what they expect and if they don't get the bail out, the worst that will happen is they will be able to pay next year's bonuses and shareholder dividends out before leaving the mess to the next Labour government to sort out.
Monopolies with no competition. Exactly. I can't go to Severn Trent or Thames for my water. I'm stuck with Southern. So how does the "private = efficient" claim work?
Just as a matter of interest, Quentin Letts was a theatre critic for years. Suddenly became a political pontificator about the time Johnson became "PM".
To be fair a substantial population in London opposed the asset stripping crowd, The rest of us watched in in horror, the wheelers and dealers given free reign on the stuff if life. Anyone with half a brain and and a conscience was seeing this coming.
For most people, there’s no real choice with broadband either. Most of the network is owned by BT and it’s BT who maintain it, BT you have to pay line rental too, even if you ‘switch’ to Octopus or EE or whoever. So it’s another captive market. In fact the whole ‘competition is good for everyone’ argument is a fallacy when you consider that most products you choose ultimately source from the same few manufacturers or are made in the same factories. Or even owned by the same parent companies. Monopolies masquerading as competitors.
Not the same though is it, there are plenty of different companies offering different deals, and Openreach is also no longer the only network, i now have a choice of 3, Openreach, Virgin and City Fibre, so there is at least in some regions real competition starting to take off.
@@antonyjcarter mine too, all 300 houses except mine and the 5 or ten either side even though were slap-dab in the middle of all the others whatever - they treated me so poorly in my last house I wouldn't take their services again if they were offering to pay me. Treacherous theiving scumbags.
I reckon the smaller media groups from the political left. People like Owen, Femi. Kernow Damo, Peter Stefanovich etc. Should join up and have a bigger political platform. Especially on the run up to an election. 👍
"Bills are higher"? says TV host , whoever he is. Tripe! Publicly-owned Scottish Water is consistently voted best in UK based on customer satisfaction and charges a fraction of what the likes of Thames does.
Should NEVER had been privatised.....end of . In fact the same goes for all our utilities, including telecommunications. The mobile network and broadband service is pretty poor ,despite constant ads telling us otherwise.
Just stop them paying any dividends till the pipes are fixed, sewerage is sorted and all the debt is cleared. Bet you could bring all the water companies back into public ownership dirt cheap then.
@@markwelch3564 great so you don't have to pump as much and have hardly anyone to supply vs amount of water you have. Any water company would dream to have that. Geographical was probably the wrong word though
Living in the North of England where it pisses it down a lot, its the same, but I'd rather focus on the struggles of everyone in the same sinking boat.
Apart from everything else, we have had water shortages and bans ever since it was privatised, almost annually. That is extraordinary in a country which has fairly high rainfall evenly spread across the year. These shortages have not been a shortage of rainfall but is a structural issue. Prior to privatisation water was piped to wherever in the country it was needed, no contracts between water authorities needed. All that changed after privatisation.
Thames Water should not be renationalised. It should be allowed to go bankrupt. The Government then take ownership of a national resource and the debt remains with the capitalist investors who attempted to make money from a common right...
I was listening to a talk radio show yesterday when a chap called in from southern Europe ( where you`d think issues with water would be at least as pressing as they are here ). He was an English chap living in the south of the continent as an English / `Grespanish` Interpreter. Water bill ? 50 Euros a year ! Much less than a quid per week.
how can you analyze what someone says if you cant get their words right? he didn't say clean / clear he said he said "something reasonably clean" comes out a partial critique does more damage than no critique at al... something ? reasonable ?
Water is a natural resource that is plentiful in England, yet we've allowed foreign owned entities to run them into the ground while delivering a poor service and not maintaining the infrastructure. We basically took common sense (water for all, run by the state) and turned it into rocket science that needs some corporate behemoth to run at vast expense. Literally madness.
As we no longer own our own basic god given right to the most important resource, our future fresh water reserves. We have investment funds and foreign governments controlling our water supplies. My question is when drinking water becomes scarce with the climate problems we are facing, do we have a leg to stand on when these foreign governments decide they want our water to supply their own people?
I don’t know where we got this idea that infrastructure and utilities needed to make a profit, infrastructure and utilities need to provide a service which everything else exists on top of. A road doesn’t need to make a profit, it needs to have enough money to be maintained so that you can do business and make your own bloody profit. Water is a necessity, not a luxury, adding profiteering to the mix, only incentivises playing roulette with a necessity of human beings.
Now I've read the bills will go UP, in order to pay for a bailout. ABSOLUTELY DISGRACEFUL. My bills are always high despite having a meter, and I don't have a washing machine, or dishwasher, and no garden. Thames water should hang their heads in shame!
No fan of this guy but I wanna see that bloody CEO that went, pay back her entire salary from the day she started. These people are taking the Michael out of all of us and it makes me so bloomin angry...
I worked for DWP form mid 00's into the period after the Tories took over in 2010. The department started referring to themselves as 'the business', I left after pointing out to several senior civil servants that can't run a public service like a private business as they are based on 2 completely opposing ideologies!
The government was crazy to think that privatisation of utilities could work. The lack of legislation to prevent asset striping and pollution is literally breathtaking!
Privatisation of utilities was never intended "to work" in any meaningful sense. It was a concept driven by Thatcherite ideological dogma, essentially the theft of a state asset, handed over to the avaricious "free market" pirates. From this perspective, Privatisation has been a great success. Billions of pounds have flowed to CEO's in salaries/bonuses, and to shareholders in dividends. With Water, there was never even a pretence of competition. They are monopolies, with a captive customer base. Privatisation is simply a euphemism for state-facilitated theft.
