Pad sensitivity test Part 2 (for finger drummers) 

Thanks for this video! I’ve got a BopPad and was burned by the CC issue when I first got it as well. When I contacted KMI’s support at the time, they told me that getting the Note On out first (i.e. before any CC messages) was a top priority for them my only option was to use the Zones app, or MAX/pd, etc. which I found a little too fiddly. Can you say more about how you managed to resolve that issue?

@@arthurthefourth Hey Arthur, sorry missed this comment. I think I did a reset on all the sensitivity settings in the editor and then adjusted everything one by one, each time checking if the CC issue occurred. And it did not. No idea exactly what happened, but a reset worked. Maybe there was a firmware update too by the way, but I cannot remember.

@@robertmathijs No worries. I got in touch with KMI support in the meantime, and they said nothing in the firmware would have changed this behavior since I last contacted them. It's strange because it worked the way I wanted it to when I first got it, but started behaving differently the next day. I'll have to try your "reset everything" technique and report back. Thanks for replying!

So disappointing that the Atom doesn't support note change on each pad.... 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡

I agree. I don't understand it because it seems like such an easy feature to implement.

Looks like you should just save up for the top products, as they are music production controllers and obviously much more capable devices vs the cheaper pads

Launchpad x might be an option too by the way!

You're welcome!

Thanks! Funny you should say that. I'm planning on doing a video about how my 'skills' in making videos have grown in 1 year (I started in January 2018). Its truly amazing what 1 year of consistent work can do. I want to motivate others to also give it a shot :-)

Joue board has to fix its latency before it's good for finger drumming. Right now its 8ms which should be 2ms or 3ms or something.

You're welcome! Theres lots more on this channel and questforgroove.com if you're interested in finger drumming!

M audio I've never tried unfortunately but the sensel I did play and while it's a wonderful piece of tech it seems to have some problems with my technique which has a lot of hits with one hand that creates multiple pressure points at exactly the same time. The morph gets confused when that happens and inaccurately translates the velocity.

@@TheQuestforGroove great! Thank you!

I might in the future. Right now I know this: The sensel morph has a low latency mode that cannot be activated when using music production overlay (with 16 pads). With that overlay the latency is 7 ms or something which is too high! I let sensel know over a year ago but it seems they have not changed this as of yet...

I have it to :) The best pads!

I can rank them for you right now! From least sensitive to most sensitive on a scale. - Launchpad pro - - Maschine mikro mk3 - Ableton push 2 - Maschine mk3 So the launchpad is further away from the rest. Maschine is best, closely followed by push 2, closely followed by maschine mikro mk3.

@@TheQuestforGroove wow, that will be nice too! Okay go ahead :)

I did, RU-vid might hide the second part of the message!

@@TheQuestforGroove Ohhh yes, I just saw the complete comment. Wow I have to say a more money. I was expecting more from the Launchpad Pro at least less sensitive than the Push 2. but its okay. Thank you so much, that is very helpful I will be waiting for your next video.!

Thanks for your two cents! I actually don't seem to be able to change the notes on the Atom. Just like with the maschine mikro mk3 the device seems to be relying on a nice midi learn function inside the software it's controlling. It might be possible but it's obviously not one of it's core features because then it's hard to find. Maschine mk3 seems to have it all in terms of great pads and also flexibility in adjusting notes in controller editor. All other devices either have crappy pads or they cannot be easily edited and will rely on the software drumkit to remap the notes. Honestly I think its ridiculous from both sides. That pad controllers notes cannot be edited is insane, but that drum software cannot be easily remapped is also insane. All controllers should have something like controller editor (maschine mk3) and all software should have midi learn (like addictive drums) About the mikro mk3 vs Quneo and iRig... was it a mikro mk3 that you tested or an older model? There might be something with quality control because honestly, both my QuNeo and iRig pads sucked. Just as hard as a crappy mpd218. Not only did I have to hit them hard, the pads responded differently. So the left top corner pad was more sensitive than the one next to it... I honestly did not like them. But maybe just like with mpd218 you have good ones and bad ones. The mikro mk3 played great. Every pad was exactly as sensitive as every other pad... only a little less sensitive than the big mk3. But not that much. Just a great device for the money. I did go into maschine software in the beginning and set it to the most sensitive level... that might have been an issue maybe? Thanks for sharing!

Oh and about the difference between the crappy devices: - QuNeo and iRig pads felt about the same. Sort of like a very bad MPD218, 226 - From the small controllers I liked the Akai LPD8 the most. Arturia Beatstep and Korg Nanopad were a little worse, but it did not really make a big difference. I felt like they were all not sensitive enough for me to play anything I wanted to play. I had to do the David Haynes two finger style technique which works, but it's so much more difficult than playing on a nice sensitive pad controller with my own layout and my easy technique :-)

@@TheQuestforGroove Hey man, thanks for replying and telling me more about the other devices! About the Atom, I saw you recommend it as the best budget controller, but how do you use with your technique if you cannot change the notes? You have a custom pad layout, how do you recreate that on the Atom? I agree about the fact that it is ridiculous that in 2019 there are still controllers and software that don't allow full customization of the pad notes. About the Mikro, it was indeed a Mikro MK3 I tested, but it was in a music shop and I admit it might have been used a lot there, it was the showroom display model, but so was the big Maschine MK3 there, and the big one had flawless pads, they registered acurately 100% of my hits, even the softest repeated 32nd duration ghost notes. I also agree quality control might be an issue with several brands of controllers because it seems different people report different sensitivities with the same devices. Or maybe different playing styles require different pad sensitivities/finger strength and that may also contribute to the confusion? Who knows. All I know for me personally the Quneo feels almost as sensitive as the Maschine MK3, but because the pads are plasticky, I find the rubbery Irig Pads easier and more confortable to play, even if I have to hit them a bit harder to register the ghost notes. The fact that you say the Quneo and Irig Pads felt almost the same to you sounds like maybe indeed you had different quality products than mine. Also, that issue you mention, that the pads respond differently on the same device, I have not seen that personally on the models I tested, but I have heard other people say that about some controllers, the Akai MPD series in particular, so there is also that, you are right. I also agree about the David Haynes 2-finger technique that works even with crappier devices, but we shouldn't have to do that, right? We should have good quality controllers to use whatever technique we want with them. I personally use the Xpresspads mirrored technique and I need good sensitive pads for 4 fingers on each hand :) is that too much to ask for in 2019? Apparently it is! Hopefully RU-vid channels like yours will make finger drumming more known and controller manufacturers will step up their game and release better products for us. Have a nice day!

Thank you for your kind words! So, the way I set up something like the atom is to use Midi Learn ik addictive drums. I'm an addictive drums fanboy because of sound and usability. In Addictive drums, you just go to the mapping page, click on the kick, click learn, hit a pad on your controller and bam... the kick is now mapped to that pad. I can map any layout in 1 minute like that. Afterwards save it and you can recall any controller In 1 second. I'm going to test out this plugin called note remapper which might be handy for other software that does not work that fast. That plugin should be able to 'route' the notes. That way you can turn note c into note d on the fly and remap your drums that way. Still silly that we need to use hacks like that though...

@@TheQuestforGroove Thanks a lot for this tip, I didn't know I could do that in Addictive Drums :) looking forward to hearing more about the note remapper. Peace

I use it in a couple of videos I think. The "Making an epic themesong" video, and the "Gameboy" song video from the top of my head.

Thanks! Yeah I should actually talk to them and help them fix the issue. Bop pad is great in many ways.

No I haven't! It looks cool. Maybe I'll try it when I want to get into playing percussion some more.

I'm thinking about buying the beatstep pro for my synths. Would it make an okay finger drumming device for like vst drums?

I like the bigger pads more but I think you can just get used to the smaller ones. You might need to set up some extra pads for the Tom's because two fingers in one pad becomes difficult. Other than that, not much of a problem!

That's some great advice man, thank you! I hope it helps some people out :-)

I've been working on my Akai MPD218 tonight. Please do share more details -- I'm curious! The new ones come with the MPC Thick Fat pads but mine was still having the issue of having to slam it as hard as I could with my fingers to get the sounds to trigger at 100%. Not good. It still double triggers, but oddly, it only seems to do that in Full Level mode. Moving on: Currently I have 3 strips of tape on every pad, except for 2 strips on the ride and crash cymbals, which tend to be a bit louder on the samples I'm using. I may even go back to 1 strip for those pads. The nice thing with the tape method is you can customize which pads you want to be more sensitive, and even change the pattern that the tape is laid out on certain pads if you want to have less sensitive edges on some notes. What's your method/pattern for taping? I'm curious. My Akai MPD218 has LEDs in the center of the pad, so I had to do two horizontal strips of tape above and below it. Originally I had vertical strips right in the middle, going over the LED. Not having the LED is not a huge deal, and that did give me access to those ghost notes you mentioned, as the edges are not as sensitive as the center. I liked that a lot and may go back to that Of course things get a little more complicated when it comes to EQ'ing your actual drum sounds in whatever sampler you're using. I feel like setting up a pad controller is always going to be a balance between hardware and software. But the tape method definitely goes a very long way in setting these things up. I was not happy with my MPD218 and got pretty upset, until I, like you, did some research and tried the tape method. I'm still trying to dial in my setup on my MPD218, so I'd be very curious to know what other insights you have to offer. Once I get good enough, perhaps I'll be able to justify buying a Push or a Maschine, and then I won't have to worry about stuff like this anymore. But I've only been playing a week, so for now, it's time to bust out the screwdrivers.

You're welcome!!

Hey man thanks for the kind words! I'll answer your questions in a short and sweet way. Feel free to ask for details if you want. 1. I would get a 16 pad device. It doesnt have to be expensive and itll just be a better start overall. 2. I think for a budget device that will allow you to change notes, maybe even an old white korg pad kontrol would be a smart buy in your situation. That said, heard this rumor that controller editor might become available for the maschine mikro mk3. In which case the notes can be edited and in that case the mikro mk3 is the best budget midi controller out there by far. Problem is that I'm not sure this will happen. I heard people mention this from conversations on the NI forums. 3. The quneo really doesn't cut it in terms of pad responsiveness and sensitivity for the stuff that I play and teach. Sorry :-( 4. I've not yet encountered a keyboard with good pads. Neither did some people in the comments who tried. I might review some, but it's hard to know where to begin. Theres soooooo many models. Ps super leuk om nog een nederlander aan boord te hebben:-)

You're welcome!!

And thanks for the love!

Thank you for your kind words! I think the launchpad mk2 might have quality that differs a bit per device. Mine was pretty terrible... it makes sense though, having better quality control for the "pro" production line.

@@TheQuestforGroove also not sure if i mentioned i tested sensitivity side by side of my maschine mk3 and my alesis vi25 and they are very close with the mk3 having the slight edge. not really a finger drumming only instrument but in case anyone asks you... its great for someone who needs pads and a keyboard. but would love your take if you do a part 3 and need another machine to test. =)

I'll write it down!! Thank you!

Hey, thanks Salik! I have not tried the sensel morph for this reason: They have a drum overlay that reduces the latency of the device to 2ms which would be acceptable for drumming. The problem is that their other overlays, including the music production overlay, do not reduce latency and keep it at 8ms or something. For finger drumming that is too much latency. 8ms round trip would probably be too much already but 8ms from just the device, then going into the computer, into soundcard, and back to your ears would probably be more than 10ms which is just too much to comfortably play percussive sounds. So if sensel fixes that with a firmware update or something I will order a morph and test it out. I told their customer support about this last year and they said they would look into it.

The Quest for Groove so I did the run around and there doesn’t seem to be any clarity on whether you can modify it for less latency. Oh well. While I have your ear, I see how your channel is very heavily weighed towards velocity sensitive pads and the like, and I get the value proposition of finger drumming vs studio time or jamming/recording/mixing with a real kit. Or even for live performance. Have you ever thought of diversifying with a workflow for something like an SP404? They aren’t velocity sensitive and there are people using it for full on production, granted that it’s a lofi sound and more suited to certain genres as opposed to what you do which is more universal? Given how informative and approachable you’ve made everything here, and since there’s a significant overlap in the hip hop/beat music community with these controllers, have you considered doing a finger drumming for SP type samplers series? Complete with separate volumes on different pads to be able to have dynamics and the like, and the workflow for it? I can’t help but think it would help people trying to learn the ropes for production on an SP and so on, and that sound isn’t going away any time soon. What’s more there’s a case to be made for something like the SP being your primary way to perform live shows since it’s unlikely to crash on you as often as say a laptop, and it’s much cheaper than say a maschine which doesn’t come with that characteristic sound. I’d say there’s a similar case to be made for apps on the iPad, like beatmaker, but those are accessible enough that people should be able to follow your videos already and then change the velocity etc after the fact.

Yeah you make a good point. I could elaborate a bit on how to translate my way of playing to a mode fighter or an sp404. It should not be too hard actually since there are a lot of double pads already.

I’m gonna be the proud owner of an SP404SX come Monday. Do itttttttttt. Edit: Check this out ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9EvybyCAZwA.html

Hey Alex, unfortunately I haven't played the devices you mention. My guess is that since they're both meant for step sequencing that not a lot of attention will have been given to accurate pad sensitivity. This is a hard thing to get right even for controllers who actually are meant to be played with dynamics. This is just a guess though since I have not played the devices. Will put them on my list for maybe a future test!

I personally think that pads will give a little more of a 'percussive' feedback. Like tapping with your hands on the table and stuff like that, where a keyboard will have this "pressing down of a button" feel, which does feel less percussive to me. So I prefer pads, but I've seen people do some crazy drumming on a keyboard so it can be done for sure!

@@TheQuestforGroove Thanks a lot for sharing your opinion with me! You have such a great channel! If possible, can I also learn some of the examples/names you've seen with crazy drumming on a keyboard? Thank you!

@@Bati_ I do not remember a specific video. I just remember people sending me them sometimes to ask which one I like more :-)

I spent quite a lot, but sometimes if I really dislike a device and know I will never use it I do return it to get my money back :-) So... yeah, I don't "eat" all my losses.

Hello, thank you for your story! Sometimes devices go down in quality over the years. So they start out with good pads and then the manufacturer changes something that makes future devices less good. So you might have a very good quneo. That said, I give finger drumming lessons. I play a certain way that makes pretty advanced drum parts possible on a pad controller. I basically tested these devices for that. The quneo is just not the device to buy if you want to learn my style of playing. That's all. It's not "bad" on all fronts. Beer proof is a good thing, just not something that I reward in this review. Pad sensitivity and responsiveness only! :-)

@@TheQuestforGroove Hey, just an update. Long story short. I love my QuNeo but I felt it wasn't at the best yet. So recently I was playing with the parameters. Adjusting the sensitivity of the pads to the maximum and the threshold to the minimum with a Full Level velocity selected (other options don't work well), improves the experience a lot. Also remove x, y and pressure send data, can be confuse for some gears. Just in case you want to try. Cheers!

Hey! Thank you so much for the update and glad to hear you've improved your experience on the quneo. Have you seen my recent videos on the new launchpad X? That thing might be the best controller I ever played for only 200 bucks! So might be worth a try :-) cheers

​@@TheQuestforGroove I just saw it. By the way, nice video, I like the quality of the image. About the LaunchPad X looks very good machine, but will it stand the test of beer? ... just kidding. It looks good equipment and versatile too. Novation makes very good gears, no doubt. I don't know if I would choose it for specific finger drumming, but it sure gives good service (the price is also very good). Personally I prefer the 4x4 layout. In fact lately I specialize only in the first line 4 pads: kick drum, snare, cymbals and crash. Simple but effective as the classic drummers hehe. Would be nice that some one make a more focus finger drumming gear, like the midi fighter but with rubber pads. Thanks again for sharing. Best!

@@TheQuestforGroove I'm curious if you used the Quneo with default settings only or also played around with the configuration settings? Like, you can make the on/off threshold super low and it becomes extremely responsive. The default velocity curve table is quite low too so needs a bit more of a thump, but the profile can be changed across the pads to mirror Maschine/Korg feel instead of the default AKAI. Just wondering because I thought the Quneo had excellent sensitivity... but now I'm thinking about buying a Launchpad X to experience what a good pad feels like! And thanks for your content, really learned a lot from you :)

Its hard to get here in the Netherlands so I haven't played it, but my guess is it'll be close to the mpc live. But it has smaller pads!

Push 2 pads are small but not super small. I personally like to add one extra row to my 'normal' layout so that the stretch between my thumb and middle finger is the same when playing kick and hihat with one hand. I would be happy stranded on a deserted island with push2. I could make it work and make some nice music with it. I used the controller with addictive drums to test it but honestly, its built for ableton live and I think you actually get ableton live with the push so... yeah I would recommend using it with ableton live. Very powerful combo.

@@TheQuestforGroove Thank you so much for the reply. It is very nice to have the point of view of a good finger drummer about it. Cheers!

Hey, I think I sort of answered this in another thread you created, but just to be sure: The maschine mikro mk3 used to be an "incomplete" midi controller, but with the latest firmware updates and the latest version of "controller editor" you can just set it in midi mode and then change everry pad, every knob, every parameter. It'll be a fully functional midi device.

I answered your question about the mpc studio black in the other vid just now! ** Mikro mk3 is a great buy. The pads are almost as sensitive as the big maschine. I'm also very pleased with the launchpad x by the way. 8x8 controller but probably the most sensitive pads I ever played!

For a 4x4 controller I would actually say try to get a korg pad kontrol (preferably an old white one) Other idea would be to find some sort of usb to midi din converter box that can also power the device. That way you can just get any controller with midi. The launchpad pro actually has a midi out cable but its 8x8 and pretty big! Hope this helps!

@@TheQuestforGroove Thx for the swift reply. I'm an oldschool musician, been working semi/fullpro with music (both live & studio) since 1983, so my studio is quite filled up with synths & drum machines. I am not a finger drummer specialist, so complex live finger drumming is not really my thing. My intention is to use a pad controller with at least 10pads connected mostly to a Vermona DRM1 mk3 (as it has 10 sounds mapped out). These days all my hw goes to a Sequentix Cirklon - so I can do different takes (ie no need to play all rythmic parts simoultaneously). For more feeling I've got a Nord Drum 3p (but that only has 6 pads and can not fully and easily control the Vermona). Anyway. Thanks again for the reply. I'll get myself a Korg PadKontrol & a regular Beatstep (as I do not need the sequencer part due to Cirklon)

I think right now the atom is just great value for money. I recently tested an mpd226 and it didn't even come close! A machine mikro mk2 might come close to the atom and the mikro mk3 is a little better than the atom. If you like how the atom plays, just keep it. You can always switch a year from now or two years from now and then get the best thing available. There are new devices coming out constantly, just like with smartphones. So yeah... if you like the atom, just stick with that is my advice.

@@TheQuestforGroove Thank you again ! ;)

Yeah for both I guess!

I tested another Boppad a month or two ago and the issue I describe in the video could not be reproduced. So I have no idea what happened but I would not talk about this issue if I recorded the video today.

The launchpad mini does not have velocity sensitivity. Its more like a real buttons that you can press. So you probably don't want that for any realistic sounding playing. The launchpad pro mk3 is the best 8x8 you can get right now.

@@TheQuestforGroove Thank you!!

You're welcome. I hope you find a good controller for your needs!

I started finger drumming when realistic sounding acoustic kits came out for the computer so I basically started with midi controllers instead of samplers! The mpc2000xl is a sampler right? My guess is I never played it because at the time I just wanted to play drums on the computer :-)

Hey man, this is not trolling at all. Very useful info actually! I looked up the casio tranckformer and it seems I can only buy a different model here in amsterdam that doesnt have 16 pads, but some sort of turntable ring. But it sounds promising since you own all the other controllers and like the trackformer so much!

They are a very surprising little unit. People often sell these XW-PD1's second hand because on first use they seem like a toy that has all these bad design / UX problems - but put it in MIDI mode for finger drumming and they are awesome. I've brought 3 just because they've been so cheap - the most I've paid is $60AUD ($45US). That other product (the black turntable Trackformer thing) does, however, look like a very bad product!

Thanks for this! I had no idea.

@@TheQuestforGroove When using Atom with 3rd party plugins in Studio One, it goes into something called "keyboard mode", where only 1 octave is available to be played, while one pad is inactive, and 2 function as octave up/down buttons. Honestly, I had the mpd232 and it had the double note issue, now I got Atom and its hard to set up/use, and you have to use many silly workarounds for things that should not be an issue at all. I feel like the current cheap finger drumming controllers lineup is very poor and low quality. I saw some older Korg PadKontrols available, and I might try getting one. I loved the feel of the Mpd pads, so I may try getting a few mpd 218s and hopefully find a decent one.

@@qkimat I'm pretty happy with the LaunchKey Mini Mk3 though it's not my main controller.

So the presonus device doesn’t work well for finger drumming with presonus recording software? Makes sense if it’s wanting to prioritize a layout it was built to control.

I was interested in buying the Atom to use with Studio One so after some googling i found this workaround/fix on the Presonus' site. Can anyone confirm if it's working? "There is a workaround for this in Studio One. - Make sure that track with the VST loaded into it is selected. - Click on Edit at the bottom right hand of corner of the screen. This will bring up the midi event editor panel for the track. - Click on the Drum Mode icon. It's the snare drum icon located directly below the Listen Tool icon in the editor's toolbar. This button, along with the Keyboard Mode button next to it, toggles both the keyboard roll layout in the editor window and the orientation of the ATOM's pads."

For my way of finger drumming a presonus atom is the best product to get on a budget. Still $150. If your budget is very low usually it's better to borrow something from a friend? An old maschine mikro mk3 might be laying around somewhere. That's a good one.

@@TheQuestforGroove Oh thank you friend for answering, although my problem is not the budget, I could make a good investment there, my problem is that my country is very expensive to bring these products the prices are so high, it would cost twice the product if I bought a mashine mikro Mk3, I wanted to know what cheap product I would recommend .... Sorry for the stress I'm giving you. Thanks

Ah right. The best budget controller is maschine mikro mk3. That's $250. The best controller overall is the big maschine mk3, $600 Atom is also good for the money but not as good as the two above.

@@TheQuestforGroove Oh clear friend my problem is in my country it would cost twice the product I am from Ecuador, if I buy a MK3 $ 250 mashine mashine would cost me $ 500, I will see a way to buy it. Thanks friend

That sucks dude. Very annoying!

Hey Philip, The conference between the pads of the beatstep and the maschine (mikro) is night and day. They're much much better on the maschine!

They're not buttons though! They will still feel like rubber pads. The only button thing that i know of is the midi fighter. This device has no velocity sensitivity though...

Did not try mini. But if it's cheaper than the big mk2 my guess is that you just have to go for the launchpad pro. The big mk2 pads were not sensitive enough for finger drumming, the pro was nice!

@@TheQuestforGroove thank you so much!!

Thanks for the kind words! My guess is any class compliant pad controller with a lightning adapter should work. So the presonus atom for example. Maybe in you case just to be sure get an mpd218 since you can change the notes the pads send out.

The Quest for Groove thanks Robert, I think the notes are not a problem as Beatmaker 3 has midi learn and so you can map any phisical pad to any virtual pad. My only concern remains the power that sometimes is not enough for midi devices. Do you have a chance to test the Atom with an iPad or iPhone and make sure it doesn’t say “this device needs too much power”? My quest for groove is also a quest for a sensitive controller and my Roli Lightpad M is not very good for drums so I guess I would be disappointed also with the MPD218 :)

My android phone powers the atom with no problems. Dont gave a lightning to USB connector so I have to wait before I can test that.

The Quest for Groove thanks so much! I will give it a try!

Hey Bernard, I have not checked out those keyboards. I realised that testing pads on keyboards is opening up a huge amount of possibilities that I cannot really deal with, since I'm just one guy :-) So I decided to basically stick with just pad controllers and sometimes test a keyboard thing if the manufacturer sends it to me. I'm sorry I cannot be of more help.

I personally only play in midi mode and I adjust the velocity curves inside addictive drums to give me te best response per sound. But yeah... that's not what you asked. I have no idea! :-)

Ah happy to read this! Yes it's really hard to find a good one. Especially because the focus doesn't seem to be accuracy of the pads in a lot of cases and also apparently reviewers dont care because nobody talks about it :-) anyways, I can also recommend the new Launchpad X. A very nice 8x8 device!

I think the presonys atom is better and the maschind mikro mk3 is much, much better but they're both more expensive. If its all the money you have you can get the irig pads but its an "expensive" buy because you will want to switch to a better controller as soon as you can. If you resell the original pads for the same price as soon as you're ready to buy a better one it'll be fine obviously :-)

@@TheQuestforGroove Thank you for the detailed answer, that was really helpful!

@@TheQuestforGroove Does the iRig let you edit the notes assignments? That's kind of a big deal if it does.

@@AlekVila its too long ago that i tested it and because of the bad pads i didnt give it that much attention since it was unuseable to me anyways. Best way ro find out ua find the irig manual and search for "edit notes" and if tgeyvdont mention it anywhere in the manual you cannot do it.

Yeah it has the same layout in rows of 4. The thing is, 8x8 pads is different from 8x25. It's more of a puzzle on the launchpad because you have not that much room to go up an down... that makes it a little less intuitive than linnstrument for me. So... is the linnstrument 10 times as good? No... I would say its 5 times as good, so the launchpad pro is still a bargain for what you get :-) Maybe get one and see if you like playing scales and chords on it. If you can make it work on launchpad, you can switch to linnstrument later on and you'll feel like you can fly! :-)

The Quest for Groove (i like my circuit for chords, and i’ve learnt some tunes/scales on the deluge so yep the lpPro might be a good fix.. but the linn looks like soo much fun!) thanks for your insight...

Yes! But there's one weird thing where you cannot change the note values inside the atom. So you can only make a drum map by using midi learn inside addictive drums and not by changing the notes of the pads themselves in atom.

I haven't had the opportunity to play a Hercules p32 so I cant say anything about it. All I know is that from the devices I tested, the maschine mikro is a very good device!

@@TheQuestforGroove thanks a lot for the reply - much appreciated!

I dont know that much about great hip hop sounds but my guess is mikro mk3. Maschine software has a lot of nice hip hop sounds.

Ok ! thank you ! @@TheQuestforGroove . And supa nice finger drumming on your previous videos ! and futur i think too ;)

You bet!

Quneo has 4 "sub pads" on each pad apparently. But the atom is more sensitive. I think the 'problem' with the QuNeo becomes most obvious when I hit multiple pads at the same time with the same hand which is sort of the core of my finger drumming style. The controller seems to have problems accurately calculating the velocity of the hits in that situation.

For $100 I would probably get a second hand white korg pad kontrol. And otherwise a launchkey mini mk3.

Yeah no idea. My guess is it has to do with the sensor and how it determines positions.

Feb 2021: I couldn't reproduce the error with a new Boppad I got. So my guess is it's fixed!

Yeah just to be clear: whenever I dismiss a controller its just because you cannot use it comfortably to do finger drumming the way I teach on this channel. I don't dismiss the controller because its a bad device over all. Its just not practical and comfortable for my type of playing. :-)

Good luck and let me know if you have questions!

No not really. I used it to illustrate that sometimes the same type of device can have good versions and bad versions. My old white korg pad control is a very nice device but the new black ones are not that good. That said, right now you can get quality new devices for fair prices so buying used stuff is not what I would recommend. That's always a bit of a treasure hunt... if somebody dumped coffee on ther 6 years ago it won't be that great and you will never know until you receive it.

Thanks for reply. (which hasn't appeared fro some reason??) yr vids are v helpful.

Maybe refresh the page?

It will work! You just need to find a way to map the correct sounds to the correct pads. If you use a plugin like addictive drums in logic it will work for sure. I used it that way myself :-)

@@TheQuestforGroove addictive drums it is then! quick sidenote, I really appreciate how you seemingly go through each comment even though it's been well over a year lol, it helps a lot

Ah thanks! I do my best. This channel is not too 'popular' (yet) so I can actually reply to everything without it costing me too much time :-)

Hey i did try it, but its a little bit complicated to give solid advice on drumming via touchscreens. All phones are different and if I tell people to go and get IGOG it might work great for some people but it might have too much latency for other people. I think apps and mobile operating systems have to evolve some more before this can be done in a reliable way. You seem to do a great job though... I cannot deny that! It just does not work for me and my ipad and samsung phone. The only finger drummer that i see playing with band is David Haynes: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-HozKqPtAFI8.html He plays a Korg Nanopad here I think.. which is crazy because korg nanopad has pretty bad pads... David just has an insane technique that makes it work.

@@TheQuestforGroove ,😀

I'd say a pad kontrol might be your best bet again! Maschine mikro mk3 is best value for money right now btw and has great midi functionality. So you can just use it in fl studio

@@TheQuestforGroove What do you think about Padkontrol vs old MPD18? Just checked auctions and it's funny but used MPD18, even MPD218 is cheaper than Padkontrol 😁

I prefer the mpd218 (a good one) over the pad kontrol. I personally switched to the mpd218 from my pad kontrol before switching to maschine.

@@TheQuestforGroove Thanks for reply, I'll try to find old MPD in good condition, never had Akai pads before and want to try them, I don't use knobs/faders anyway. Greetings!

I think the akai lpd8!

The Quest for Groove i read that you cannot hear the ghost notes with akai lpd 8 is it true?

@@DeejayRach0 that depends. If you set your samples to full velocity only you will hear every ghost note really loud. When using a drum kit with multiple velocity layers you might not really hear them.

Roli blocks can be connected with ipad and has a dedicated app. That might be a good one to try. That said, for playing and just churning out the midi data all the controllers I recommend are good. Also whe using other software. I use the presonus atom with cubase for example. Works fine.

@@TheQuestforGroove Thnks. Question is if I can change pads layout in Atom (it can be done in Quneo)? And you probably don't get any visual feedback out of device when used in other DAWs/Apps? I would love to hear more about Roli then. What about its sensitivity. Programming layout (Or i've just missed sth). Regarding Machine - I would love to only take pads out of this device ;)

- Roli lightpad block m sensitivity is not great. Its playable. Did a video recently called "creating a song with the odds stacked against me" in which I use it. All the pad controllers i recommend have better sensitivity though. - You cannot change the notes on the atom or maschine mikro mk3. No visual feedback either. Very stupid limitation. I have no problems with this since I use midi learn inside my drum software to assign pads to sounds and not the other way around. But with something like EZ drummer this will suck. I truly do not understand why this cannot be done.

@@TheQuestforGroove can you use the masculine micro mk3 with an iPad

I tried the launchpad pro with my ipad and that works actually. You do need to plug in the external power. My guess is that it will also work with the atom and the (mikro) mk3 as long as theyre set to midi mode and theres external power available. So far haven't found something good that works with iPad and no external power at all.

@@TheQuestforGroove thanks for the reply. Oh cool, if the Maschine mk3 mikro can be switched to be a class compliant midi device, that'd be ideal. It seems the larger models can't, but maybe the mikro is the solution

Yes its possible with newer firmware! Beware though. All of these devices have one annoying flaw in midi standalone mode. Did a video about it >> ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vXICPd7UbVw.html

@@TheQuestforGroove thanks again. Are there any of these devices that can change the midi channel on the fly without needing to launch some configuration software?

The old white pad kontrol can do this. Only available on Ebay and such, but if you get a good one that isn't used too much it's a great option.

The mpd18 needs a mod from mpc stuff is what i heard. Without it the pads are not that good. The m-audio trigger finger is not for sale anymore and actually wasnt available at anymore when I started finger drumming. So i dont think i can help you that well with this decision :-(

@@TheQuestforGroove Thank you anyway. I found a good second hand trigger finger for 50€ and I wasn't sure whether buy it or not...

Wow interesting. Is that one of those wooden things?

@@TheQuestforGroove Type of wood can be chosen. I had Zendrum ZAP with zebrawood, which had no crosstalk issues. It uses microphones under each pad, which makes it extremely sensitive. It senses the lightest touch when threshold is at around 0. More sensitive than Maschine mk3, however no pressure sensitivity. Each pad can be adjustable separately (curve, sentivity, midi channel, etc.) Pads are made of very hard material, which I like, but takes a little time to get use to. They are all hand made, which prolongs the shipping time. The controls are pretty easy to get use to, but the screen is extremely simple, without menus.

Ah wow yeah... I saw one of those things. I obviously would love to test one if they would send me one but honestly: It's a bit like testing a Ferrari. No normal person will buy one :-) That's why I have not tested the MPCX either... I borrowed the MPClive from a friend, otherwise I might not even have tested that one. Anything above $1000 will be off limits for 90% of my audience I think...

Why did you get rid of your Zap2???

The Quest for Groove I actually still have to it, but I messed up the power connection. It needs to be resoldered. That’s my fault. They are high quality units.

I tried all velocity curves and it really wasn't up to snuff... basically not useable for my way of playing. Maschine mikro mk3 now has the option to change notes for its midi mode as well with the controller editor software, and it's not that much more expensive and has wayyy better pads. So yeah... if you want to do some of the lessons on this channel and you want to not get frustrated, I would skip irig pads and try a maschine mikro mk3 then.

@@TheQuestforGroove Thank you for your insight! The $270 price tag is a bit rich for my blood (especially because I'm largely planning to use it strictly as a controller for other plugins) so I'm going to pick up a Korg Padkontrol, but on the off-chance I have some kind of setup issues and can't get it to work then the Mikro will be my 2nd choice for sure.

Im not sure if I replied already elsewhere (i think i did) but just to be sure: I would recommend a push 2 if you're a heavy ableton user. Otherwise i think I would just go for the maschine mikro mk3. It's almost as good as the big one now!

The akai 8 pad is not good either. Right now the cheapest controller with actually good pads is the launchpad x... 64 pads(!!). Maschine mikro is also very nice, as are launchpad pro and nektar aura. Those cheaper devices and especially the small ones are more fir tapping out something simple but not nuch else.

@@TheQuestforGroove Thanks for your reply. Alas, I'm not sure I see a solution. I have limited space, and the nano/akai form factor looks ideal. I also really like the Korg Nano Studio assortment of controllers and feature set. I wonder if I can use those keys for finger drumming. I just use my synth weight keyboard right now for drums. I just don't want the pads to "miss" notes like I've seen in some videos of the Korg Nano Pad.

That sucks man. Sorry i dont have a better solution at the momeny.

@@TheQuestforGroove Thanks again!

I think you get used to the small pads fairly quickly. What you can do is skip one row between kick and snare to give your fingers some more room. I use an rme babyface interface. Nowadays that would be a babyface pro!

@@TheQuestforGroove thanks for the clarification btw im a new subscriber but I really like the feel of connectivity you have with your audience, it is so cool and I thought you should know that :P

Thanks! It's actually not that hard at the moment because I'm operating in a small niche. I love it that I can literally respond to every message and every email I get :-)

@@TheQuestforGroove lol seems like you found your ideal world! good on you my man!

Yes! The smaller pads make playing more difficult but the sensitivity is great!

I set it a little above the lightest settings. If I put it all the way down to 1 it started triggering by itself. But one or 2 stops above that it was stable!

Thresold always to the minimum value then you decrease the sensibility, Mine is set to 1 and 4 on sensitivity so you need to pull hard for max value (not so hard) and the lightest touch is available ;) If you put threshold on max value you 'll see only the high value works not a soft touch; so thresshold on mini and decreasing the sensibility, because it's uncontrolable with too much sensitivity...

@@phosphore7991 ok thanks

@@frontbattles8090 you're welcome i hope my english was ok :p

It used to be my main budget recommendation but that's the ESI Xjam now. The pads respond even better!

The Maschine pads are still my favourite. With the Maschine mikro mk3 in midi mode you mostly have pads and not much else and it's just better than the Pad Control so I'd still recommend it. If you're ok with smaller pads maybe the ESI Xjam is something for you.

Right, I get your point. So to answer your question: The test is mainly a pad sensitivity test. So it's designed to help people decide what devices will work for them if they want pads that respond reliably to dynamic playing. All devices I dismissed are simply not up to the task. So if the beatstep looks appealing as a sequencer I think you should buy it. If you want to do finger drumming the way I do, then you would also need another pad controller. You know, I'm a guitar player and I have multiple guitars. No single guitar can do it all. I think it might be a bit too much to ask of an $99 sequencer to also be the ultimate live finger drumming device. Sorry to disappoint you! I don't know anything about sequencing so cannot help you with the other functions of the beatstep. I'm sure they are wonderful!

Arturia is junk. Atleast the non-high-end stuff. The internet is filled with writings of quality control issues, from broken keys, knobs or ports, to abandoned software updates. But to be fair, the cheaper Akai and Korg stuff isn't much better, although I haven't seen mentions of abandoned firmware issues.

Sounds like a great package! The mikro mk3 does have much better pads though, so I always recommend spending extra if you have it. If not, this sounds like a lot of value for the money!

@@TheQuestforGroove Thanks for the info! I'll consider the mikro mk3 $100 more than what my budget wants. I use to own an MPC-1000 and I've heard it had better pads for some people. I don't remember them missing a hit and the sensitivity was fine for my style of drumming.

I still thing the X is better, even with studio one!

@@TheQuestforGroove oww. Okay.. I think I will order the X.... Thanks

The white korg pad kontrol is probably a little better than atom! If its a black one it might not be that good.

@@TheQuestforGroove ow... it is the black one... so.. atom is better?

In my experience those two come pretty close. The atom is less customizable though... I think you should get the cheapest of the two since they're so close.

@@TheQuestforGroove ok. thank you

What do you mean with Polyphone? The Keith mc millen has MPE capabilities and also has some other cool features like assigning 4 notes per pad in each corner. The problem is that it does not respond as reliably when drumming on it in my style. It 'drops' notes basically. So you hit a pad and it does not trigger. That's the most important thing to me so I cannot recommend it, no matter what other stuff it does.

@@TheQuestforGroove yeah i meant mpe not polyphonie sorry! ^^ ah okay ya thats all i wanted to know! thanks for your fast answer :))

I borrowed mine from a friend. Did not change the settings so honestly I dont know. I just plugged it in and it worked very well. I just used it as a midi controller with addictive drums, so I completely bypassed ableton. But I also played it at my friends place through ableton. Both methods were fine and the thing responded very well.

You should be able to change the sensitivity settings somewhere and the thing should then respond well. If not, ableton support should provide you with a new unit or fix yours. Because the pads should be good.

Thanks for the quick response.

Haven't played it! Looks like a more traditional drum computer to be played with sticks. Nord makes quality stuff so cannot imagine that it's bad :-) Pads are a little large for finger drumming from what I can see.

Same size, same feel, but the big mk3 responded to softer hits where the mikro mk3 just ignored them. I tested 2 mikro's and I think they're at 90% of the big one. So if you want value for money, get a mikro because it's more than half the price for almost the same sensitivity.

And one more thing: for the difference to be noticeable the pads have to be set into most sensitive setting in maschine software settings! Otherwise no difference!

I don't use FL studio. Never did, so it's hard for me to recommend a controller specifically for that software. I think you should just go look for the best pad controller over all. Did a video about that in february: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yO27H_Cq7bM.html

Check out the akai Fire It’s a controller made for FL Studio I think it’s 99 usd

@@TheQuestforGroove thanks bruv

@@adharvvijpal5044 i have the akai fire and its not good for finger drumming since you dont have velocity sensitivity pads and the pads are too little

I compared them side by side and yes, I think the mikro mk3 responds better. Only problem with this way of testing is that NI might start to produce crappier maschine mk3s over time. That's what happened with the akai mpd218. But as far as I know the atom is good and the mikro mk3 is even better. My old, white korg pad kontrol is somewhere in between the atom and the mikro mk3. Note that the new, black pad kontrol models are not that good.

@@TheQuestforGroove I've red that black pad are not worse but come with very different sensivity settings out of the box and can be configured the same way. Do you think it's a myth?

@@przemekchoody495 I doubt it because as far as I know you can only set velocity curves not trigger sensitivity... I'd have to check though.

@@przemekchoody495 there is stuff online like this: www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26144&sid=97e3f9508a6332f99ba6fca8fca8b497 Where people complain about pads being inconsistent. I experienced this more with the black pad kontrol than the white. The white still has this problem but it seemed to be worse with the black one.

Oh wow... I found this little gem: this is about making the pad kontrol Less sensitive but it might be worth trying with the black one. ==== Pad calibration: I have learned that the Factory has a hidden setup for calibrating the pads. It is currently set to the most sensitive/expressive because we feel that it plays the best in this setting. But it can be "de-sensitized" if desired. So to try this do the following when powering on the PadKONTROL: a. Current settings hold both the[VELOCITY]& [SCENE]keys b. Slightly less hold both the [VELOCITY]& [MESSAGE]keys c. Even less hold both the[VELOCITY]& [FIXED.VELOCITY]keys d. Least sensitive hold both the [VELOCITY]& [PROG CHANGE]keys These settings will be remembered with no other action taken. Regards, Jerry