Nick Zentner | March 31, 2023 2023 Downtown Geology Lecture Series. Lecture 3 of 4. Recorded at Morgan Auditorium in Ellensburg, Washington, USA. • Baja BC A to Z - Winte... www.nickzentner.com/ 0:00 Chalkboards 31:08 Slides
Almost 10 years ago I started “watching” Dr. Zentner in order to fall asleep at night. I haven’t gotten much sleep since. He is passionate, persuasive, uplifting, and extremely knowledgeable which all combine to make for a captivating expletive every time I watch. I am so glad he has the bandwidth and capability to document his lectures for those of us who can’t join him in person.
I spent months flying over the Rocky Mountains, desert southwest, and California while doing aerial survey. Your lectures answer so many questions I had while flying over the geology of the American west and make me want to go back and observe with fresh eyes.
Listening to the lecture and then seeing that map of Alaska at 47:49 brought a smile on my face. ISN'T THIS STUFF COOL! Downloaded the Beck and Butler papers to read. Graduated from college with a BA in geology in '84. Didn't go into the field but have always kept the interest. Thanks for your lectures! - Midwesterner from Illinois
Even more importantly, explains how this is exactly how science works! The story starts with all the great evidence we had to support the previous theory, how the new evidence upends some of the conclusions, and now how the thought processes work in forming a new theory based on the old AND new evidence together. All in a story-telling talk that whisks our minds away into the depths of time vividly imagining our planet moving and evolving. He's a master teacher!
Thank you Nick - refreshing to hear paleomag talk. In 1980, I used paleomag to determine a timeframe of when the NorCal coastal mountain range (north of bay area) was re-magnetized some distant time after it had been laid down, but before it was distorted, folded, uplifted, fractured by faulting, etc. It was really a fun paper. What we didn't do was discuss the rest of the story as to "why" and "how" the sedimentary strata became remagnetized (although we suspected much heat and/or pressure was involved). Great introduction to Paleomag and its contribution to deciphering the stories in geologic evidence.
I really admire a professor who will unbiasedly present new knowledge, and various new theories, and explain them thoroughly and well. THAT is educational integrity. Thanks for being that kind of guy! Any development in any educational field should be exciting and an occasion for collaboration and sharing, not an excuse to hunker down, protecting your own turf and modus opperandi! Presenting and sharing, freely disagreeing, discussing, and making an honest attempt to understand is the mark of a scientific approach which is always growing and changing, because we don't know everything yet!
My mind is blown! Wow. Thank you for the audible. Not just plates colliding, but moving in respect to the ordinate pole. Just awesome. I have a whole new view of the dynamics of Mother now.🙏
Our rocks have a story to tell and Nick is the journalist interviewing, gathering evidence, and then distilling his notes in a cohesive narrative to tell that story in the most engaging and entertaining way. I love that he exposed us to so many other interesting and hard working geologist in the past few years, and especially this past winter. That series was epic! This set of talks has been an amazing wrap up to the series. 💯💥
Been at peace with this, since I found out paleomagnetism suggests the crooked river caldera (yellowstone ancestor)came on shore in California but I visit it at Smith rock here in Central Oregon all the time!
'That's the hook'. Your style of teaching hooked me the 1st time I watched one of your lectures, 1 1/2 years ago. And your willingness to learn new things/ideas makes you a great teacher. Thanks for yet another great video lecture!
This is fantastic! And in the traditional definition of the word - I mean it’s really great to see different thoughts and ideas expressed against the mainstream geological narrative. Regardless of what the truth may be we, as humans trying to understand, need discussion and argument and sharing of varying data. Thanks for this!
Nice presentation! Geology has always been about “thinking outside the box”, this is how we discover new data! Very thankful that we have Geologists that are able to do that! Retired Geologist who spent has career doing open hole geophysical logging..
As someone who has always found the traditional model (Farallon subduction suddenly goes horizontal) completely and totally unconvincing, this and the previous video (How Did the Rocky Mountains Form?) are remarkably satisfying. Not sure I'm ready to die in peace just yet, but at least I now have something to think about that makes sense. Thanks for your work on this, Nick! I look forward to further discussion of this model in the years ahead, and I trust you will stay involved and keep us posted about the upcoming conferences.
This was wonderful and compelling, and I didn't expect that at all (just that it would be fascinating). What a fine presentation. Thank you for posting this.
Just finished watching the last two lectures and enjoyed every minute of this series. Nick, you are a Master of your craft and a magician, of sorts, for transforming 78 episodes of information into 4 hours of riveting and beautifully told geological stories. Talk about great energy! I wish I could have been there.
I love how he condensed all those episodes from last year to early this year into a cohesive series of lectures because I missed a lot of the early episodes. It makes for a compelling case for westward subduction and Baja BC.
FYI - in 1980, UC Davis Geology Dept wouldn't let me take a core drill out into the field; I carefully collected field samples securing their orientations, brought them back to the lab and secured them in plaster and then cored them in the lab. But once we had those cores, then the magic happened when we reoriented them and secured the magnetic field orientation, and compared against polar wandering plotting to start to bracket a timeframe of the level, planer surface. Fun stuff!
I have a feeling that 20 years from now, geology students will watch this video in the same way that we now view presentations of plate tectonics from the 1950s and 1960s. Until there is data that shows the paleomagnetic research to be in error in some way, I am getting more and more convinced that this northward migration makes perfect sense. Especially, when you have tomography that shows the story as well.
I’m so hooked on this series. As a Yukon resident, living a few hours away from Carmacks. I have always had so many questions about what happened so that an ancient coral reef ended up as a mountain I wake up to every day. How is that even possible, and how that came to be. I can feel the pieces of puzzle start to come together. If you ever decide to come up to the Yukon to check out the Carmacks Group you have to give us all a heads up. Would love to see a lecture of yours. Thank you for doing this series.
Much of what Nick and associates (Myrl Beck, Bernie Hausen, etc.) have presented reminds me strongly of a book by Thomas Kuhn I read decades ago titled "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions." That seems to be what's happening.
Geology and its derivatives such as paleomagnetism are grandiose and awesome sciences. If I could live my life again, I'd do that. Kids, think about this as a career!
@@mikelouis9389 yes, but during the period that a geomagnetic reversal is occurring, the earth's magnetic field is extremely varied in strength and direction, with multiple north and south poles appearing across the globe until the field settles back down to a new orientation.
@jonadams8841 The detected rotation of the earth's core aligns with the apparent surface rotation, AND thanks to paleomagnetic studies, the magnetic pole alignment is always linked to the rotational orientation of the overall planet. This is fundamental science.
After all the changes in how we understand geology that happened in the past 100 years, one would think the scientific community would be more open to challenging preconceived notions, right? I guess even after a century of groundbreaking and earthshaking discoveries and massive shifts in knowledge, opinions still change at a geological speed. (all the puns very much intended)
I was somewhat surprised to learn that paleomagnetism wasn't mainstream since my geology professor at Queen's University (Kingston, Ontario) included it in lectures back in 1982. Of course, he was young so not "set in his ways" nor, I'm guessing, did he a lifetime of papers to protect. Great series of videos; thanks for creating and sharing them.
One of the reasons it isnt taught is that it is actually pretty complex and abstract, and furthermore extremely specialized, so most even top tier geologists in any other sub discipline dont learn it in a deep way. You almost have to have been a student of a paleomag researcher or have been taught-incidentally-by one to get an introduction further than sea floor spreading and plate reconstruction. I did paleomag for my b.s. and ms/phd thesis work, so I get it, but even trying to explain it to structural geologists who use my data is a serious uphill battle.
It's odd to think we may be watching a paradigm shift in action. I think the proponents of the accepted view can be forgiven for being reluctant to lose their model; the geology up there in that corner is crazy complicated, having finally arrived at an understanding of the picture it can't be easy to scrap it in favour of a new understanding. Fantastic lecture, as always!
Well, it's human nature to defend what we believe. Those supporting the current view have written grant requests on the old model, taught classes, built careers. It's hard to let that kind of investment in a model go. But that's also the wonder of science, that models _can_ be challenged so radically, that the old model scientists have to look at the evidence and weigh it, whether they reject it or not. It's easy, being human, to be close minded and dogmatic about everything. Science says you have to consider the evidence at a minimum, no matter what you believe.
Always love to watch Nick Zenter. He reminds me of my favorite geology professor of fifty years ago. Jim Birk instilled a love in the science that has yet to fade!
Dr. Nick: Your teaching of geology should earn you a gold medal at a future scientific olympics. The open nature of your dialogue with all who you have interviewed is the best way to advance our understanding of the earth, the only home we have. I wish our elected political representatives could mirror your process.
Hi Everybody. Hi Dr Nick... I reckon Nick is the epitome of a scientist ... A teacher that never stops learning and growing the understanding of their subject to better prepare their students for even greater understanding.
I got busy with other thing for a year, but I am back again and I hear you talking about the new stuff and I love it! Before I stopped watching about a year ago, you had mentioned that mountain in China with the steep ocean plate diving into the mantel and that blew me away. And now you are talking about it happening under North America as well.
A learning junky, here. New to geology. I lived a lot of years in the Klamath Knot. I have spent over 60 years within sight of "my" beautiful Mt. Shasta, on three different sides. What you say is, besides being fascinating, makes sense. Thank you so much. I will read the papers you mentioned. I will also pass this on to my appropriate acquaintances.
It would be interesting to add the Yellowstone Hot Spot location to the lower mantle slab model. It seems that movement greatly increases as exotic terrain crossed over the hot spot. Its almost as if the hot spot is producing lubrication. Another thought is that the hot spot would be like Hawaii with fairly big volcanic islands highly prone to erosion. Would it behave as a friction reducer if that material got placed between large rock bodies?
Thanks Nick! This is the second presentation that I have watched... How the Rocky's were made was the first. It all makes sense to me, I'm not a geologist, but I love rocks, and how they were formed. Ron from Sandy, Utah...
Thanks, Nick. I missed that Myrl Beck had passed. So glad he wrote the papers he did, taught the classes, and did the interviews so his knowledge is not lost. Also, thank you for making sure the paleomag information is being disseminated and that recognition of this is happening.
Awesome, Nick!!😃💗 Myrl would be so proud of you, and glad you are making sure his paleomag work is passed on to other geologists and to us believers and wonders!!💞😏10 years from now or even sooner, I bet more people will appreciate what you've done here! Thank you, Nick, Myrl, and others for letting me open my eyes!!😘💞💗
John McPhee has written on a variety of topics, including a 5-book series with geology as the main topic. Annals of the Former World was the final book, containing the previous four as well as book five. The fourth volume, titled Assembling California, was published 30 years ago. Eldridge Moores was prominently featured in that book, and it is filled with his ideas and background details of his life. In a few pages it included a similar hypothesis. I am paraphrasing here, but McPhee, wondering about the Rockies and Himalayas, asked if Alaska could have played the role of India before sliding up the Pacific coast in pieces. Moores in reply said that is exactly what happened. I don't think that anyone back then was questioning subduction polarity (eastward vs. westward dip), and in either case there was not yet any tomographic picture of the mantle detailed enough to shed light on the topic. Over the past 30 years many more details have been uncovered. The picture today perhaps points to the terranes of western Canada rather than Alaska as the impactor. But the basic idea is not new. I think that there may still be time for a shift between westward and eastward subduction before the Laramide Orogeny. If you divide the formation of the Cordillera into Sevier and Laramide events then each could have been caused by different slabs. The Sevier Orogeny would be initiated by closure above a west-dipping subduction zone. While that slab is descending and breaking off an east-dipping subduction zone is developing somewhere to the west. Presumably this new subduction comes from the south-west to match the vector of the Laramide flat slab, which underthrusts the Sevier and beyond, beneath future Colorado and Wyoming. The big error is assuming that eastward subduction had been continuous. One could imagine a suitable arrangement of plates to accommodate the rapid northward movement of Baja-BC, with perhaps a triple plate junction south of it. This, of course, would require figuring out where all these terrane pieces were located at about 90 million years ago, and what plate arrangement might accommodate the movements needed. There is a lot of movement to unwind, including Basin-and-Range extension, northward translation of multiple terranes along many fault zones, compression and stacking of terranes on thrust faults, and with much of the evidence eroded away or buried.
Not a geologist. But McPhee's Annals really kick started my interest in not just the geology but the formation of North Anerica. Listening to these lectures I being to imagine that these scenarios have played out multiple times over the Earth's history. With each Supercontinent phase and breakup triggering repeat performances. Everytime we have a Supercontinent assemble (1) we have to realize that the driver of Plate Tectonics cannot just stop. That heat leftover from the Earth's formation along with the heat from isotope decay will try to escape. Rifting will continue to occur as will subduction. But during a Supercontinent Phase all of the action is out in the Oceanic Basins with some of the subduction taking place at the continental margins. But what breaks up a Supercontinent Assemblage. Perhaps the subduction zones that lie between continental blocks that are dragging them towards the trenches merge. An eastward and a westward subduction zone merge and the Oceanic Crust plunges straight down dragging the continental blocks towards the now combined trench. But over time the that mass of Oceanic Crust that has been subducted and piled up on itself as a ribbon acts as the catalyst for the rifting that occurs where the Supercontinent will break up. 1) I would argue that we still are in a Supercontinent phase to some extent. If one ignores minor things such as the Bering Sea it is technically possible to walk South to North from the Cape of Good Hope to the North Cape in Norway. Or East to West from West Africa to Miami.
Awesome lecture Nick. My wife and I travel the west coast a lot, fm Baja to British Columbia. We've listen to all of your geology 101 pod-cast during our road trips between our home in Blaine WA and BAJA MX. plus watched multiple videos on your channel here. We've learned A LOT and we appreciate you and your style of presentation. I just wanted to take a moment to say THANK YOU!
This is a great way to view the West and just how complex our planet is, and how little we know. Thanks for putting forth and supporting this new view. Science is all about discover and change!
I have absolutely enjoyed this double lecture - science would be nothing without one's emotion and quest for the truth. It will take me a lot of time to try to explain this to my 9 year old daughter (she already understands in basic terms how the Himalayas were formed, so there is a good chance). Thank you for this excellent video.
Fascinating! I love that there are still changes to the way geologists see the world as some are finally willing to accept the results of research and technology that was done decades before. It must be both frustrating and vindicating for those involved.
Absolutely brilliant summation. Nick is a gifted communicator, as well as a careful consumer of primary investigations. Being able to distill this subject into a coherent presentation to laymen is pretty amazing, actually. My hat is off. :)
I have learned more from Prof. Zentner on RU-vid than from 100 and 200-level college geology courses. This is only the 5th lecture that I have watched.
I seldom equate courage with geology. Imagine putting forth a theory that is at odds with the prevailing theory. Having some discount it only because it was against everything they learned and against the teachings of all those professors. As a student or a field geologist telling those great minds they were wrong. Science requires proof. Paleomagnetism is the proof. Thank You Nick for bringing this another step forward, and hopefully into the mainstream way of looking at the earth, it's rocks and the many journey's they make.
You know watching that model roll at the end makes me wonder just how much Chicxulub impact had on all of this. Loved the lecture I look forward to more.
I was taught the basics of Paleo Mag back in the mid/late 1980's, how that's been applied to model the unusual geology of the West of the Rockies is fascinating. To me it's compelling evidence that the geology has migrated in the way you described. I can see why geologists love your part of the World. Great lecture series btw, very easy to follow and very engaging, I've not studied geology in quite a while and if I could get it then I'm sure others can.
Its interesting and has compelling data, but the biggest problem is that it doesnt have field observable structures/deformation which one would expect of so much deformation and transport. That and there is also pmag data from rocks of same or similar ages which does not show significant transport and there isnt much explanation why
It has just clicked. I studied geography in high school in the UK from 1970-77. Plate tectonics was relatively new but we had text books that covered it. We discussed the Pacific Plate (Fallaron) moving east and subducting and looking at the San Andreas fault which was a shear fault going north/south (ish). I remember a discussion about why the plate was going east but the surface land was not and why. I cant remember the answer. We had the seeds of doubt but didnt know it.
Sir, you make me go back to school and switch my major from English to Geology! I'm a 44 year old mom and felt like I was too old to learn new things...thanks for proving me wrong! 😊
Awesome to see you lectures on videos! Living around Montana and driving west and seeing all that I have seen, watching these videos and other videos have been enlighten! Explain all that I have seen! Thank you!
This theory also helps explain the sudden disappearance of the western interior seaway. It's pretty well established that the creation of the sea was caused by North America buckling against the force of the Rockies, but the sudden change in tectonic forces from the west would explain how that pressure was relieved as these groups shot north around the same the sea closed at the end of the Cretaceous.
This series really ties the past 3 yrs of lecture together. I'm a 10 on Baja BC. I first learned of Pmag during Geo 101 at WWU 20 yrs ago and didn't know Myrl Beck was there. I remember thinking 'cool' and how were they able to measure such tiny mag fields. I considered changing my major but continued on with mining engineer.
Thanks Nick wonderful talk so glad Dr. Beck got recognition before he died and was aware of it. That alone was one good service you performed not to mention teaching all these new young geologists
The thing is, geologists can get tunnel vision and just focus on their own specialty and not pay enough attention to other branches of earth science and what they may be discovering, especially if the papers are published in small specialized journals that are protected by paywalls. That’s why it’s important to collaborate with other scientists like Nick does, there’s so much benefit to that for science. The Baja/BC and alternate Rocky Mountain hypotheses are very interesting and compelling and I look forward to following the progress as it unfolds. I’m lucky I guess in that I did learn some paleomag in school, and not as a fringe part of the lesson, but as an incredibly useful and reliable tool to help rewind Earth history and the Supercontinent cycle.
Having followed all with your videos and remembering Dr. Beck, I'm feeling very excited by this series of talks that are wrapping up so beautifully all we have studied together. I'm very glad Baja BC and the paleomagmatism, along with new research is being given serious study and consideration. I wish Dr. Beck were here to see this happening. However, I hope he knew through you, Nick, that the conference was in the planning stages.
As a convinced Baha Bc person the question I would like answered is how far west into the Pacific ocean was the mount Stewart batholith formed? Is it not posssible thart the batholith was formed a considerable disance ofshore but on the same latitude as Baha California and so could have been translated a not unreasonable distance to the north before the final collision (crunch) with the North American continent.
I've got a saying that I think applies quite well to the former model of how the Rockies formed "The proof is in the pudding, and I love pudding!". We have so much evidence that the old model is wrong that we need to openly challenge anyone who is still insists the old model is the only possibility for the formation
This continues to rock! (Pun intended!) The paleomag is explained and summed. And then is collaborated by the modeling based on seismic tomography. These 3 lectures are a great summary of what was learned in the Baja-BC A-to-Z series. Now on to the next one!
It's amazing how stubborn scientist can be when evidence challenges their preconceptions. As Nick said, they read it, then bury it, and hope it goes away rather than asking "Am I wrong?"!
