PAPER MARIO: The Dark Side of Nostalgia | GEEK CRITIQUE 

his dad is goomba too?

That's pretty amazing!

That’s actually really cool

This is one of the best comments I’ve ever read on RU-vid.

That's really cool! It reminds me of when I watched Cartoon Network shows when I was a kid, back when, as a non English-speaking kid in a non English-speaking country, I didn't understand English all that well, and yet Cartoon Network was all in English. But I didn't care! I got a couple words here and there (I sure could read a decent amount of English, but not exactly understand it when spoken), but most of all, I saw the characters' actions, which spoke a lot more by themselves. Ed, Edd n' Eddy was the best example for me. Even back then, even when I didn't understand most of what they said, I knew Ed was about as dumb as a bag of rocks, yet was also a loyal and friendly kid who's... both unhealthily obsessed with monster movies and unhealthy in general. Double D was the smartest and skillful of the group... so long as it didn't involve any sort of physical work, and with his organization, obedience and tidiness, comes also some paranoia, fear of authority and lack of social skills (should I mention I kinda related to him the most?). And of course there's Eddy, the one that was truly a jerk, all interested in making it big, getting those quarters with dubious schemes and scams aplenty, getting those sweet Jawbreakers at all costs, even if it meant cashing in at the cost of the other kids in the cul-de-sac... which is no wonder why he and his pals were always seen as "the Eds", the outcasts. Because, for as dimwitted as Ed was (and how much that awful sister of his despised him, but no worries, we all despise her too), and how socially awkward Edd was, it's not like the other kids were "normal" either. Kevin's obsession with his bike; Rolf with his odd-ball mannerisms, sayings and traditions; Nazz wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in the toolbox either; Johnny... as in, him as a whole... you get the idea. Ed and Edd could sorta fit right in, with the occasional "oh-so-original" insult from Kevin aside. And yet, it was mostly Eddy's fault that the other Eds couldn't fit in, since they always stuck together in his schemes and devious plans. So yeah, I guess one of the most important things in media for kids to do right isn't to tell a simple, basic story. Rather, it is tell a story in a way that could be well understood by the characters' actions and a couple of words alone, as complex of a story as it can be.

Same experience, as span8sh speaker this game was really Hard but i enjoyed so much anyway

I definitely would have, but I never found it! I always shut out other videos, reviews, guides, and opinions about a game while I'm working on it, but once the episode was done, I watched a Stryder7x video where he casually mentioned it, and I was like, "...aw, man."

@@GeekCritique that sucks man, I found it by pure chance, and it was one of my favorite finds, its so wholesome yet also weirdly somber to find it and read about the aspirations of a character that was orginally just a tool for multiplayer

@@GeekCritique I'd do some research on Stryder7x before watching the rest of his stuff. He had some pretty nasty domestic violence allegations pointed at him for a year or so now. Not sure if that ever got resolved in anyway but it didn't look good.

@@GeekCritique well you have something to look forward to on your next playthough

@@WaddleDee105 His videos are still good, I feel bad for him. He basically got nuked, and as outsiders we can't be sure what is 100% real.

Having all that extra dialogue and scenes sounds like it would make the world come alive. I wondered before what would happen if games got intelligent AI in the future. It would feel we're talking to a real person in game and the whole game world would be the Matrix. Then could game characters break the fourth wall and realize they're in a game world?

I remember chapter 2 having a unique Goombario comment for every single room in the desert

@@TheDiego908 holy crap, I didn't know that, that's fantastic!

Played Mario RPG and then like Geek Critque played Paper Mario. I hated it. I made only 3 attempts at playing it. When i was a kid, beat the first boss, and I couldn't care about it. So I stopped because I had other better games to play. 2nd attempt when I went into collecting games after high school, i played and i felt like i force myself to the 3 boss and just couldn't care. Finally 3rd attempt, when i was in the Army deployed i had my laptop with emulators of every system/game. Since there is nothing to do. i decide to beat it since i had friends praising it. Beat it and I can tell you. It still sucks, i dont care about it. The only nice things was the partners, but you could only have 1 at a time. and thats it the only good thing in my eyes about it. This is just my opinion i can see why others like it but when comparing to SMRPG this falls waaaaaaaaaaay short. I made no attempts at any of the other Paper Mario games. I do play Mario & Luigi sagas. They feel so much more closer to SMRPG

Having played through Paper Mario recently (as a lifelong RPG veteran,) mechanically it's definitely Baby's First JRPG. But the attention to detail in that game is incredible, and, with Goombario as my default companion I saw pretty much all of his Tattles and screen tidbits. I've gone and played other JRPGs since, and after Paper Mario it's a little jarring when the townspeople don't have something new to say after each of my notable accomplishments. I hear The Thousand Year Door is even better, but I'm going to have to wait for retro game prices to come down, or for GC emulator that will run on my phone.

Josh was nostalgic about the games of his childhood even when he was 13 years old, long before all those other posers started doing this.

Why does this comment say 6 days ago even though this video was uploaded an hour ago

@@cgrn17 probably because of patreon

bruh moment for them I guess

Welcome to my world friend, we got muffins.

You like things I don't?! You must be a moron probably! My opinions are facts, after all!

Felt that lol

Right!?!? And then 10 yrs later ur friends are like "hey have u heard of this🤪???" Then your like...."yea....😮‍💨"

Personally, I really wanna see the first most ominous thumbnail.

The current Sonic '06 video thumbnail sounds like it could be a contender.

Second? I felt attacked by that thumbnail. It not only spooked me it broke into my house in dead of night, shook me until I awoke, then slapped me with a mackerel before climbing out the window again and running away.

@@iggyminious there’s the “end of prime” Metroid video too

Brawl video is your first ,right?

Happy Holidays, Mr. Josh! And congratulations on getting Married!

Merry Holidays!

I still want true super Mario rpg 2

hi i came down here because at 8:00 the way tabletop RPGs was described is a bit reductive. I get they have a reputation for being RNG-laden wargames but most of them are not, roleplaying and clever solutions matter a lot more than raw stats and numbers, and video game RPGs lost something HUGE in translation that really, no AI can make up for. Really, there's a type of freedom that can only exist in TTRPGs with a real person capable of human sentience running the game instead of a program. I also get it was for the sake of simplicity but a lot of people who grew up with video games actually do think TTRPGs are all crunch and no flavor that huge math nerds play and that's only a subset of the total community. D: TBF, D&D (the most popular one) got its start as a wargame, but branched out a lot from that on 3rd edition and that was also when other systems like call of cthulhu cemented a place in those spaces (which is way more focused on clever solutions than rolling high) and many modern systems that exist today like FATE and Open Legend are a lot more about roleplaying. anyway i know this is a big post and probably not that many people care but if I've sparked the interest of anyone who has only heard of tabletop games in passing, PLEASE give them a try sometime, they are wholly a unique experience and actually pretty unalike video games. (yes i am literally shilling for a niche hobby rn please don't kill me)

Hey Greek Critique before you end the Metroid train forever, can you do a final recap video divulging your thoughts on the entire series, how you’d rank the games, and all that stuff. (Also you never played Federation Force)

I've played Super Mario RPG when I was a kid and boy let me tell you I give 0 sh!ts about Smash Ultimate.

I'm so broken hearted about no Geno.

@@AdrianERosales at least there’s a Deluxe Costume mod, which got ported to SFM/Gmod.

@@robbiewalker2831 how do I use it and where do I get it?

Who cares!? Geno was extremely overrated. He didn't even have an arch nor personality like Mallow. He just would have been another glass cannon. How about we get some good choices like Impa or Darunia

@@URFTBOUND4LIFE still a symbol of Mario rpg

He has no personality whatsoever

Yeah, too soon...

@@chrisnguyen2316 In a weird way Mallow feels like a better representative of it based on character interaction and time with him IMO.

Goddamnit General White

@Steve Murdock Yeah, when I played thru it the first time I thought it was funny, in the same way that I Wanna Be The Guy had so-bullshit-its-brilliant trial and error and how LISA the Painful RPG is ok letting you climb a 5 minute long rope only reach a literal middle finger and nothing else (and you then have to go aaaaall the way back). I guess I'm ok being at the expense of the joke, it's amusing to me.

@Steve Murdock doesn’t actually help the game though and makes it a slog for some people

I think that's kind of a silly statement really. It could be argued that non-story-driven games are 100% filler depending on your perspective, and that would be ridiculous to say, so what's wrong with RPGs having segments that don't contribute directly to the story as long as the gameplay is enjoyable?

I honestly dont understand why people talk about backtracking in that game as if it's a major issue. The only time it ever was an issue, if you even want to call it that, was in Chapter 7 with the whole General White bussiness. But I see no issue with seeing the previous areas you visited in a sort of side quest to find somebody you've seen throughout the journey to this point. It was annoying sure, but it was difficult and rewarding when you finally got it. It was quite the experience to finish that part of the game and be greeted with the surprise that followed. Other than when did the game even do this backtracking thing? I can hardly think of anytime when it did. If simply passing through routes you passed by before is enough, that's a little nitpicky. I had no issue passing places that were a part of the area I was exploring. To me it was a part of the exploration. Really grasping and understanding the surrounding area and familiarizing with the people living there.

"He kicks your butt in the beginning, you see him acting cocky and having his way with the Princess after every chapter." Literally none of this happens. Bowser gets HIS ass kicked in the beginning and spends the entire time trying to reclaim his castle. The only time he gets near Peach again is after he's already joined your party.

@@ActionGamerAaron Oops, I should’ve specified I meant that that happens in THIS game.

I think what I liked the most is how the game contrast that before the final boss you fight that regular bowser again, and even thou his regular star rod power doesnt make him totally invincible, you became so strong that you can even opt to bruteforce throught the fight if you dont wanna use the star beam, it contrast how weaker bowser is and would lose to mario were not by his final boss power up.

Building up a final battle with bowser? As an exciting threatening climax? Are you kidding? There is no way to build up a final battle with bowser, even back then, that's why in Mario RPG they had Smithy and made bowser the first joke boss because - let's face it, after that many defeats that's all a character can be. Hell, in Mario 3d World "Bowser's Fury" they had him become some godzilla thing and I still was about as excited and threatened as facing a goomba. If that doesn't show you a villain has become a joke through overuse I don't know what will.

@@Vaquix000 idk man, I loved the godzilla eyecandy

That confused me too

Maybe he is a "hardcore old school pro gamer" that does not save because "makes things easier" and stuff or idk

Maybe he missed it.

@@wariolandgoldpiramid How? It's in plain sight in a small room with only 2 doors! o_O

@@Majokodomo It's surpricenly common for gamers to miss something in plain sight.

Dude, I was part of the people who didn't give Windwaker a chance back when I was a kid, I feel ya. The way he puts it at the end of the video "I was just a little too old and a little too young to see it that way," is a very elegant summary of that phase we all seem to go through where we're so egar to be mature that we don't realise how immature we're acting. Edit: an important addition, I was also a kid who unironcally thought the Shadow the Hedgehog game was cool so this isn't the first time I've been in this picture and not liked it.

Sucks man i was like 5 or 6 and it was LITT

I was fortunate enough to find this game very soon after getting a hand-me-down N64 from an older cousin. It was my very first RPG, and the first game I really loved. I'm glad to see older people came back around to it - it's a real gem!

Luckily, I was never such a sheep. As an adolescent and teenager I played all games of quality, regardless of whether they were colourful and cartoon or serious and philosophical.

The areas are pretty much always "back and forth, back and forth", with chapters 4, 5, 6 and the General White search being the worst offenders. The story and combat system might carry it but the "filler" he's describing is basically every chapter of TTYD.

@@dukemon6163 How does chapter 6 have filler? And the only chapters I would classify as filler would be 4, 7 and 5.

@@Surgemaster2012 It's back and forth between the rooms of the train. There is a lot of plot going on and then there is that small empty station in the middle of the chapter. But the train itself is very small, linear and most of te chapter is carried on by the plot.

@@dukemon6163 Except in the train's case everything is confined within the train itself its not like Chapter 4 where the trips aren't connected and you have to go back and forth between the steeple and the trail. If I get the Chef's pot for instance the Chef is literally just a room away that you can give it to him as you progress the chapter. It isn't like you need an item, backtrack to the station then the train. Unlike Chapter 4 where even if you know Doopliss name you still need to go back to the steeple anyway. Also its a train, what do you expect it to be? Does the train need to have BOTW styled view? And the station isn't entirely empty either, as there are puzzles you do and enemies to fight, sure its minimal in amount compared to the plot. But that's the point. TTYD has padding, but the train is one of the least examples of it in the game because of traveling back and forth is less of a hassle, not to mention it only persists in day 1 which isn't even half of it. The second day is the station and the 3rd day is the boss fight and Poshley Heights. I can see in some cases where linearity is prelevant (even though Idk why people treat linearity like COVID 19) but the train is suppose to be like that by design. There isn't really anything you can do. But that's because both 64 and TTYD are linear games in their experience.

@@dukemon6163 The train at least has a lot of distractions, including the station. Overall it is the most underwhelming chapter on a repeat playthrough. 4 lets you try your luck on those Amazy Dayzees. 5 I get distracted by Flavio. It doesn't take terribly long to get around, and most rooms have some hidden goodie or an enemy to grind.

Bowser was also at his best in a game like this, being surprisingly fierce and competent while still being a delight to watch.

@@borjankosarac3645 Needless to say, I find Bowser in the Paper Mario series funnier than in Super Mario Lol. 🤣

Bowser was amazing in this game. He doesn't just sit in his castle waiting for you to show up. Instead, he is actively trying to put obstacles in your way during missions (probably shouldn't have asked Peach for help) and is preparing the stage to make the Star Spirits irrelevant. Not a lot matches the feeling of kid me seeing the one thing that could beat the star rod fail and wondering what is next.

Let's see, the game leads up to someone you've beaten 20+ times in other games already. What an exciting climax!

@Vaquix it's kind of sad that your enjoyment of something is stifled by the fact that you have done it in other games. You must hate lots of stuff with that mentality. Hopefully, you get in a better place someday.

@@user-vi4xy1jw7e The biggest problem with TTYD is the backtracking which wouldn’t be too bad if the spin was still there to make movement more interesting. (If Josh does an episode on TTYD it will be interesting to see what he thinks since he already thought PM64 had some time wastey stuff about it) There are some things I don’t like about the battles. I didn’t use special moves much since they take a long time and made battles less interesting for me. I think both games are equal in how good they are but I will prefer the original since it was my first rpg ever. TTYD definitely has better partners though and has a more wild out there kind of story.

Hey, at least Super Mario RPG is finally getting its well-deserved remake!

I'm eagerly awaiting that episode as well. For as great as this game was, I couldn't believe how much the sequel improved on it. Both are so flipping good

@Rock Golem chapter 4 in TTYD is a bit of back and forth, but it's tied into a unique storyline and it's not remotely as drawn out as the Shy Guy Toy box. So he will probably critique it but I'd be shocked if he was as harsh on it

@Rock Golem While I could really live without him - I think not having General White feels like it's not part of thE TTYD experience. The snow Bob-ombs are not the warmest people out there, and you have to go through hoops for them. Then you get frustrated and release all frustration towards him at the end. It isn't the first time you do this in the series, the Goompa letter in this was the first example. For a completionist, it just feels like a running gag.

@Rock Golem Well it typically is without the viewer being involved into it, but it depends on the person, especially if they have a bit twisted sense of humor.

I really hope he covers at least the next two, I've got a ton of nostalgia for them

I think the Save Block threat is more for the point-to-point aspect of enemy hordes, like going from the snow path, then a part of Crystal Palace, then the 2nd half. Just like other games though, the boss battle would look self-contained hence the refresh just before the battle.

I agree with it in regards to lives. A lot of platformers have the common collectible that liters the place of which collecting 100 grants you a life. I can't see how many of these can be done away with without losing a great deal of substance. I'm not sure how Crash 4 is but I cant imagine a hallway Crash game without Wumba fruit.

@@Darkfawfulx Crash 4 has a Classic mode where lives go down and Modern mode where death counts are done - you do need less than 3 deaths in a run to get a Gem though.

@@zjzr08 And what becomes of the Wumpa fruits?

@@Darkfawfulx Same function in Classic mode, while also a Gem requirement (80% I think for it)

Chapter 7 is my favorite

The frenzied toy version of Toad Town theme is such a fun change too!

Chapter 4 is my favorite too

Right??

I have found the Toy Box theme to be more repetitive and grating than the rest of the soundtrack in my experience. But I think the Toybox is a really solid chapter, and placing the small toy train into the box, watching it essentially grow into the size of a 4 door sedan, is a top 10 Paper Mario moment for me.

I can second he might like roguelikes. I also really hate normal game overs, but in the right roguelike, death does not feel like failure as much as a learning opportunity, and as such is no longer a punishment with forced repetition but instead a tally-up of how well you did (and the good ones do still reward you for what you did RIGHT) and an invitation to play again with a different scenario.

@@MidoriMushrooms The issue is, the roguelikes I've been involved with (whether working on, chatting with devs or just playing a lot) to various degrees more directly are all of the deckbuildery variety (or *actual* "games like Rogue") - stuff like Binding of Isaac or the much more meta-progression-heavy Rogue Legacy (I think that had a sequel?) are something I'm loosely aware of on an academic level but can't really speak to how they appeal to old-school gamers, if at all. I'd actually be pretty curious to hear - from you or anyone - how well some of those games scratch the same itch you might be nostalgic for. A lot of why I watch TGC is because he, to be blunt, loves everything I hate, and is one of a number of people I really enjoy watching because of that, since as a(n indie) game designer it's very much in my interest to understand where lots of different perspectives are coming from.

Experiencing a game over is completely different in a rogue-like. The level design is generated & often these games will reshuffle their maps on death, whereas a traditional game will give you as many opportunities to overcome the same obstacles in the same format. For the record I hate rogue-likes, but mostly because of the lack of level design & random occurrences more than any opportunity to learn.

@@ActionGamerAaron Changing up the format is definitely a difference, and I'm someone who enjoys both types - I love turning up the difficulty of a game and then save-scumming, trying the same (usually self-caused) scenario over and over until I figure out how to thread the needle to victory - but it still feels the essential skills being tested line up pretty well, and in many of those games the different map you approach with doesn't change that, for example, the boss has a learn-able pattern and knowing how to dodge it perfectly will apply regardless of what "gear" you show up to it with. At its heart though at some point we're just hitting the limits of the term "roguelike" - trying to cover everything from very random-heavy heavy card games to still mostly-skill-based shooters and platformers. There's definitely some of them where just learning an enemy's idiosyncrasies will be the most important lesson, and regardless of the context next time, your lessons learned can apply - and there's gonna be games more based on risk management and number-crunching. For instance the "lack of level design" isn't the case for a few games off the top of my head which use a medium-sized pool of hand-crafted levels populated in semi-random ways, and where bosses always have their own dedicated arena. Generally though, "skill growth via repetition" has the same split that a lot of games have - Josh alluded to this in "the difference between how I'm good at Sonic Adventure 2 vs 2D Sonic games" thing - the difference between knowing the exact layout and idiosyncrasies of the level in question, vs knowing all the quirks and tendencies of the game's engine and overall design. It sounds like you might just prefer the first to the second - I know I prefer the latter, and find just learning the layout of a pre-built map via repetition about as fun as cramming for a test.

I'm not a big fan of roguelikes, but I prefer the ones where you lose ALL progress upon death. It's kinda weird getting powerups/ perks between deaths because it's like you're being awarded for failing. IMO the Souls series handle game overs really well, where the games autosave and the only thing you lose for dying is potential money/ exp.

There was actually a lot of criticism at the time for the fact the game was paper in name only. I bet that’s why future games got more and more papery

The Japanese version was actually called "Mario Story".

@Pinchars ABitch it was less criticism and more “why did they call this game paper Mario there’s nothing paper about it.” Even TTYD is way more paper with the plane and boat abilities.

Funny story, actually. Back when I was a kid, I first played TTYD expecting it to be a "Paper" Mario experience; more like what you'd see with the series nowadays. The sad part is that I lost interest and stopped playing it, so returning it to Blockbuster didn't make me feel upset that much. However, it wasn't until I played Super Paper Mario that I regained great interest in the series. I bought a used copy of TTYD and fell in love, then I followed up with the N64 version. When Sticker Star was announced, I was ecstatic that turn-based combat would return. And then things went downhill from then on ... Honestly, it's really ironic how the Paper Mario that I initially expected as a kid is the bread and butter of the franchise today. Kid me wanted paper aesthetics and got an RPG, but now adult me wants an RPG and just has paper aesthetics. The irony is almost laughable.

@@fishactivation5087 Wait, so the entire franchise got ruined because they kept changing it to better match the western title of the game? Man, I wish the developers had said "meh, screw you" and just kept making decent games instead of going "Oh they want paper, here's a paper airplane that controls like arse, here's some stickers, here's some paint, BTW we ruined the game parts of the game KTHXBAI"

Even if it was, kinda like SMRPG, SPM still did have the feel of a Mario RPG, like a Kingdom Hearts style spin-off, so it isn't really that far off from the originals (especially compared to the Papercraft Mario games).

Super Paper Mario was my first one too, I was super engrossed with the 3d/2d flipping, even if it wasn't utilized as much as it could have been

what he is not reviewing mario and luigi?

Sometimes I wonder if there's a "Mario-verse" split in three alternate dimensions or universes between Super Mario, Paper Mario, and Mario and Luigi. It's known in Mario and Luigi:Paper Jam that the two universes are apart. Seeing M&L Mario and Paper Mario team up was awesome. 😎

@@hectorcollazo8845 the idea was good but the execution was mediocre

It makes me wonder too as it seems most of his videos are a lot more nostalgic based during his pre-adult years.

I mean given how it’s been 11 months since this video, and he hasn’t even made the Superstar Saga video yet, who even knows if he’ll make a TTYD video

These were one offs

Sorry about your jobs man

That smrpg experience was because of how different it was from paper mario, with its 'square' flair.

@SpaceMen While I agree, Origami King is definitely a Paper Mario game-a refreshing step for the franchise from its recent entries, one of the big problems I have with these games (Nintendo in general sometimes) is that they just want it to be different. I’m mainly referring to the gameplay, I like innovation, creativity, something Origami King definitely has with its puzzle combat, (at least for the series) but it really feels like something that could have been its own thing; a different franchise. Origami King is so far from previous iterations of Paper Mario as is, but the Sudoku-like combat system feels like it shouldn’t be tagged on-as the main-core loop and premise of the game in my opinion. It just feels so different, like it could have easily been its own IP or a totally new spinoff but instead it just has to be slapped onto one of the main spinoff series more than it feels like even a spiritual successor let alone any kind of game in the series. Different isn’t always better, though in Origami King’s case, I’m happy with it but I can’t help but feel a little longing for even a slight return to something more “traditional” too. I would definitely say: They lost me. Not in the sense of being a fan, in the sense of... for a while I somewhat looked the other way when it came to Paper Mario and it’s many handheld entries, because I still felt like I had Mario & Luigi games, which really gave me those feelings I miss from old Paper Mario, even as far as Bowser’s Inside Story in the series. Now, I feel like Nintendo has taken that away as well, it’s really losing its luster to me and is starting to feel that similar course PM took, which made me disappointed even more. I just really would enjoy something simpler or rather not 10k iq new spin on everything.

I don't bear any particular ill feelings towards the new ones, but the first three just hit different. Super is my personal favorite, probably due to nostalgia. Idk how they'd manage the controls, though

Emulator.

Well now Paper Mario 64 will be on NSO so there's that now :3

You mean RelaxAlax?

@@train4292 Yeah him, I tried to get his point but he really just came off as just extremely impatience, grown man complaining about waiting for 2 secs

People have been really doing that lately. Like these people have the patience of a small wet carrot.

@@gleamingroses2952 tbh in this videos case and some comments on this video it sounds like people just need to save more often, been a while since I played 64 but I'm pretty sure there's save blocks like in front of most of the bosses in the game so idk how much progress your actually loosing

@@gleamingroses2952 hmm I've been thinking about this for a while, I wonder if it has to do with just modern gaming culture, like streamers try and do a much content in a game in their air time so they try to rush things and RU-vidrs try to speed play a game just to work on their videos instead of sitting back and enjoying it at a normal pace

Wait, is that still happening? I thought it got DMCA'd.

@@SirCowduck yeah he just uploaded a preview for the second episode. It took so long because of some personal issues

Funny, I feel the opposite. I loved how your actions in Chapter 6 made a difference in the flower spirits' lives, whereas Chapter 4 lacked that extra little spice for me.

I hated Chapter 6, is fucking unnecesary and I would lover way more that the Flower things was something optional more thant something FORCED, I was lucky that I collected all the seeds because I thought it was "optional" but when I see that was something the game was going to force you to do really annoyed me, and all the "Campos Floridos"(idk the English name, srry) area makes me feel whacky and dumb, I love the soundtrack but when you clear the sky the music gets ANNOYING. And also, whatever the cloud boss name is, was a short and boooooring boss fight.

@k ? No, kiddo, they don't. Not one of you have ever given those games a fair chance. They weren't Thousand Year Door 2, so you just auto-hated them. And on the rare occasion you lot actually try to explain what's so "terrible" about them, all you ever do is nit-pick tiny problems and blow them completely out of proportion. The later Paper Mario games are far from perfect, but they aren't terrible. You'd see that if you had the wherewithal to understand the difference between your opinions and actual objective facts.

Tbh Paper Mario is just challenging enough, unlike TTYD which is damn easy

Mario is back. But this time, he has a plot.

@@randomduck8679 Interestingly that was the promotion given by Japan - it was 3D Mario explaining what he has done already, Party, Golf, etc. But what he hasn't done yet is an "adventure", although it does seem to forget SMRPG with that, hehe.

For sure! If Paper Mario had come out earlier in the N64's life and I'd played it as a kid, I think I'd have LOVED it back then. And actually, I think that's probably a reason the "Mario RPG" and "Paper Mario" fandoms are pretty segregated, now. I know lots of people like me who skipped Paper Mario and its sequels, feeling they were "too old" for it. And likewise, I've gotten comments from people who've played tons of PM and M&L games, but could never gel with Mario RPG, because IT seemed "too old" to them!

@@GeekCritique I played PM first before SMRPG although I still am a fan of the latter (isometric 3D in a 2D console fascinates me) - I will say it does feel a bit old to me personally, and does feel a bit similar to many big number RPGs compared to PM which seamlessly translates the platforming mechanics to the RPG and makes it more RPG as you go on.

@@GeekCritique Introduction bias (as I like to call it) at its finest!