Parry Combat Done Right! (Mostly), Metal Gear Rising Review 

the previous tongue-in-cheek thumbnail stating 'sekiro but good' was far more provocative and user engaging

based Mark dabbing on fromdrones

I’m so tired of reviewers complaining about games that require skill. Games for me have never been passive entertainment, the challenge was always the key fundamental. I love Rising, not only cos of the gameplay but how just how cool it looks and feels. It’s the same feeling I used to get when I saw model 2/3 Sega cabinets as a kid. Mark, you’re always on the money and a very important voice in the world of unskilled video game reviewers. I really appreciate your work brother!

The directional based input parry in Rising is how parries should be used in all games! Now we need that Godhand right stick dodge mechanic used more often. Imagine a game like that nowadays. IGN would hate it......again 😂

oh sick!! you used part of the 3rd strike anti air tutorial me and my friend made way back when. it was inspired by CVS2 legend buktooth saying he didn't like 3rd strike parry because he thought it made jumping in too good and I wanted to showcase that the defending grounded player still had better options than the jumper. one thing I didn't put in the video was the crouching to standing last minute parry for the grounded player making the available mixup timing window for late jump-in normals much smaller (depending on your character size - shorter the better). this was the kuroda / MOV chun li tech that was still kinda secret back then hahaha.. anyway - love the channel sick vids dude!

vanquish is made for you mark, hard mode removes lvl up for your weapons so it's basically an arcade mode

Strong parries in SP games (where actual attack prediction would feel like BS) entirely rely on soft balancing mechanisms, mainly the player's lack of ability or consistency. If you can't always parry attacks, whether to parry or not will be a legitimate choice, dodges can then work as a safer low risk low reward option, spacing can also fill a similar role. But once you address that lack by getting good, the balance crumbles entirely because nearly every thing made you vary up moves disappears. And as you said - this type of balance effectively punishes you for getting better by giving you a less varied, less interesting game to play (self imposed challenge aside). You can address that in a lot of ways. You could make the execution/consistency demands so high that it'll be insanely difficult to get good enough to nullify soft balancing (incorporating direction like MGR, tightening up timing, varying up enemy attack timing, less telegraphing, incorporating positioning/direction of *swing*, giving the parries variable startup times and range, etc). You can build in some hard natural tradeoffs/limitations for parrying that will make it less/more viable depending on situation (NG2's two counter types & their ability to break strings). OR you could simply make the parries a weak tool relative to the rest of your kit without a particularly strong advantage either defensive or offensive outside of niche situations. Then there's also balancing follow ups to parries if there are any. Something that's worth mentioning is that multi enemy fights (especially if they can do overlapping attacks) are a good natural way to balance parries, especially tight ones, because then the attacks will not only come out at a fast pace but possibly a pace too fast to actually parry successfully. It reincorporates spacing back into the system by undermining your ability/consistency. With how parries are going, they are moving in the exact opposite direction - parries are becoming even more universal, using simpler inputs, with less tradeoffs, with a more direct advantage (stamina drain leading to finisher), with more lenient timing, cleaner telegraphing, and less emphasis on spacing. It sucks ass, such a shitty mechanic that only gets worse with time somehow. I was watching a GDC by the God of War 2018 combat director and the way he spoke about parries seemed to be entirely focused around low to mid level play, whether he intended it or not (afaik GoW's parries are more situational but never played). He was talking about parries as a choice that players make based on their current skill level, without exploring what happens when the players actually learn how to parry. And it does make sense that most devs would think about game mechanics this way - after all if you got good at their game they already won, your money's been spent, the glowing reviews have already dropped & refund windows have been passed.

You're totally right how little positioning/spacing matters in modern game design. I realized modern games are designed to hold the hands of players as much as possible when I tried to play an older beat em up title, Urban Reign. The game kicked my ass very early on. You can't just rely on mindless aggression or your blocks and parries. Enemies circle around you very quickly and literally juggle you to death. You have to carefully manuever around and pick your battles one by one without whiffing any of your punches. This game's design was an eye opener to me. Have you ever tried Urban Reign, Mark? I think it's right up your alley.

You know I was thinking about this lately and came to conclusion, that one of the most underrated, and also hated, game mechanics, is tank controls. Especially in games like Onimusha and God Hand. Tank controls allow you to move and aim at the same time with the same input, while most of the modern games have to rely on camera lock mechanics (Dark Souls), that allows you to focus only on one enemy at the time. Fighting multiple enemies in this games is kinda pain in the ass. Also God hand has a lot of "parry" mechanics, like counter hit or throw break. However forward dash is probably the best parry mechanic in video games. Because how it tights up to your movement, it allows you to recover faster without loosing your position, wile other dash options are much saffer but requare you to move away from the oponnet. So unlike most of the modern games, where parry breaks your offence, in God hand parry allows you to be more aggressive. Also you looks like a hippie grandma in this poncho :D Love your video.

I don't even play many character action games, yet while I enjoyed Sekiro I also found it really difficult to get into, because it basically punished my instinctual reactions to space and dodge. I eventually put it down because my wrist started to really hurt from constantly spamming parry. Even something so basic as attack in Dark Souls, which is also mapped to a trigger, is used more situationally and never gave me wrist pains from repetitive pressing. Just goes to show how heavily parrying overrides everything else in Sekiro.

You are supposed to wear the awesome Battle Garegga Berserk mash up sweater and hang up the curtains, not the other way around.... ;)

I love that subtitle hah, It's so true. Another good thing to mention about parry implementation is that the game doesn't score you on its usage. if you play any other modern action game™ with parries, you know it's gonna have some meta-mechanic that forces player to use it and penalize ignoring it. Overall, ranking system is very well-thoughtout and very flexiable in a way that it allows for reaching S ranks. It allows for many different playstyles depending on which categories player chooses to prioritize to obtain an S rank, because you don't have to perfect all categories for the necessary 5K BP. There is even hidden non-lethal bonus, that requires player to incapacitated human enemies instead of killing them (if you're playing this way, you don't have to watch zandatsu animation all the time too).

100% agree that there should be a training mode in Platinum Games where you could choose a section of a stage. In Bayonetta, it was so infuriating having to go through the terrible shmup stage before you could practice the last Jeanne fight (which was by far the hardest fight in the game)

I love mechanical discussions like this. First, I really do enjoy games like sekiro for having that hone-to-perfection style gameplay, but I'll fully admit that they can just be put down after you follow the very linear and narrow road to mastery. It's just a kind of challenge that's about doing exactly what they ask of you with no deviance or experimentation, and it's neat in it's own right. But for games like MGR, for games that can embody that arcade philosophy of constantly presenting an ambiguous challenge with no pre-defined optimal solution, (or allow other options to coincide with more powerful ones like the action dodge to the parry), that road to mastery becomes wide and winding. It's a game that deserves to be played over and over because there's more to do than figure out the parry timings. It's just gets harder to appreciate the way newer games are when they constantly strip themselves out of having the mechanical and systemic depth of it's predecessors.

I've never played MGR, but a buddy once told me that the campaign for Jetstream Sam (DLC, I think), is more challenging and less reliant on parries. And apparently the taunt mechanic has a higher risk/reward. But this is just something I heard, so take it with a grain of salt. On the topic of parrying, there was an older indie game I used to play called Hyper Princess Pitch that had its own parry-style mechanic (an airborne suplex/throw) that had a ton of invincibility and evasion and insta-killed enemies in an AOE. The difficulty was that it took 4 inputs to use it while not attacking, making it very risky unless you had the skill to pull it off. Some players complained that this was too hard, but honestly, it made the game all the more rewarding. And on a somewhat unrelatede note, the game also fixed your aim when shooting, unlike the popular twinstick shooters of the time, making it feel more akin to classics like SmashTV. But again, this challenge made it all the more fun. Twinstick shooters bored me to tears, but I have numerous hours devoted to HPP.

honestly i disagree with a lot of your initial titles but i always love watching your videos as you articulate your arguments so well there have been several times you have 100% changed my mind and times where i disagree but can absolutely understand and see where your coming from. Great writing!can’t wait to see what’s next!

To give some context to the Zandatsu mechanic: Alongside Blade Mode It's actually one of the few holdovers from when the game was Metal Gear Solid Rising made by KojimaPro. (Raiden performs the move in the CGI trailer for the game, so they clearly considered it iconic and important). I think this explains quite a lot about how it doesn't really fit "the flow" of MGRR, it's a relic from when Rising was a MGS game, it probably made sense in a more stealth focused game with slower paced combat.

You are so damn right about MGRR. First time I figured out how the parry works on that game I was amazed. It is so intuitive.

I don't really feel at home with this genre yet so I learned quite a bit in this video. You seemed very inspired here which is always a great thing. When the long introduction started I knew I was in for a treat.

Not sure if you mentioned it as I haven’t watched the whole vid yet. But even with parry focused combat, mgrr has stylish combos you can preform with animation canceling, weapon swap tech, and raidens big movelist. You can get pretty creative with combos in this game. I feel that this gives it the edge over other parry based games as the combat is deep too.

I've been wanting this game to get covered for ages, looking forward to an absolutely quality lunch break today watching it

I'm relatively new to character action games and beat em ups, so i appreciate your mechnical break down in the first half of the video. It makes it really easy to contrast my recent experience with streets of rage 2 and how enjoyable the moment to moment gameplay is against a range of modern action games.

Like a dragon(Formerly yakuza) games has same directional parry system and it never gets old to this day. Hard to pull off and satisfying when mastered it.

Parry ruined alot of spacing element in Monster Hunter. If you compare a Longsword play in Monster Hunter Rise and Longsword play in games like 4U, you will see that the longsword isnt very recognizable.

Mark, you really outdid yourself with this one. This is a great review of MGRR.

I bought this game day one back in the day on PS3 and still enjoy it, most recently on Steam Deck. I agree with the heart ripping mechanic getting old. I seem to remember this game was in development hell for quite a bit because they wanted every object to be able to be cut. It turns out it ate up too many resources for the game to run. It is still the best character action game to this day.

I think a really good example of the impact of adding parries into a game is the Ys series. The Ys series was all about positioning for a very long time then they introduced flash guard into Ys Seven where it wasn't too bad because the game is still designed to be enjoyable without using it, and it's a little more out of the way then later games, even if it's really strong. Then they added flash move (basically witch time from Bayonetta) in Memories of Celceta and by the next game, Ys VIII, bosses are designed with the parry mechanics in mind and are not fun without using them, but when using them positioning loses all importance. It went from a series where the boss fights were the most enjoyable aspect of the game to one where they're basically large normal enemies that you only fight once.

I'm yet to watch the whole video but I instantly clicked to check out that poncho of yours. And oh man is it good!! 🙈😻

Any thoughts on The Surge 2 parry system?

I'm really struggling with the camera in this game, any tips on mitigation?

what do you think about the parry system in "the surge 2" ?

I must say you have quality content on your channel. Please keep making meaningful reviews for people who can think and appreciate other thinkers.

What do you think if Wo Long interms of combat and what do you think about the current Team Ninja action game designs vs the old Itagaki and his team's? Great content on the genres I'm most interested which are beat em ups, 3d fighting games, and character action games.

Have you done an actual review of Sekiro? Cant find it

another examples of great parrying is dmc5, you can use nearly any melee attack hitbox to clash into the enemy attacks (or hell, any projectile), and the sounds are phenomal funny enough, dmc reboot had it too

I'd love to hear your thoughts on astral chain, the other game with blade mode in it

The issue with the directional parry is that it's relative to the somewhat jank camera. When it's working well, it feels excellent to pull off, but I feel like the camera being so close behind Raiden causes it to move around a lot in certain sections and changes the angle you have to tilt the stick while you're trying to do it. It's not a major issue, but it causes some frustration.

Which system did you play on?

You'll love Vanquish. Great Video, really outstanding work.

Cormano wants his Poncho back mark. great video!

It was on your flop list, but I think Wo Long had some pretty interesting ideas with the parry that I hope they build on in a sequel that I doubt will happen. 1. Double-tapping the parry button results in a dodge; The parry window is pretty lenient, but it at least ensures that you keep your inputs somewhat precise. 2. Parrying also moves you in the direction you hold your stick in. The game doesn't lean into this as much as I wish it did, but there are some bosses like Zhang Liao where you can essentially parry your way around a combo, and escape it early to get in some attacks of your own while the enemy continues to flail forward. This can also come into play with group encounters, since you have to think about where you want to parry towards, though group encounters in Wo Long are not often used. 3. There are moments where parrying is a wasted action; If your spirit bar is full and you're still parrying, you could be using that spirit to use a martial art, some of which can evade enemy attacks just by virtue of how they position you. There are still a lot of problems with it in practice, but I find it to be a much more thoughtful implementation of parries than most games these days.

Bayonetta 3 let's you choose and repeat the verse you want to get S/platinum. Sometimes cuts some of the running/intro staff. I think is one of my favourite features of that flawed game.

Perfect upload timing, ❤ your channel homie. I pai tou mahi e hoa ma.

shoutout to the poncho my dude! Love your content

I do wish the slow-mo Blade Mode functioned differently in this game. In Rising you can just chop enemies up without thinking, but it feels like the way it should work is you have to use that Blade Mode to hit between armor areas, hit the little robot arms holding the armor plates on some of the enemies. It’s weird, because the tool is built for precise cuts, but the game never really makes you be precise with Blade Mode. Even stealing the glowing electric spines doesn’t really ask for you to be precise. Like that could’ve been something where you need to do precise cuts in such a way that the spine isn’t damage. But then the Blade Mode mechanic is a holdover for the previous version of the game, which looked like a total different style of action game. And it was something they were really selling the game on, so it wasn’t like they could really drop it. But I do wish they would’ve worked it in better. I do like dismemberment in Ninja Gaiden 2, where losing a limb will change how an enemy functions.

is it worth to wait Angel At Dusk review from you? :)

Core combat in MGR is completely typical Platinum where you shred through crowds, have little to no ways of inflicting hitstun on tougher enemies and bosses, and react to telegraphs by canceling into defensive options. Much of your gameplay in this video clearly demonstrates this. Having to be vaguely aware of the enemy's position to parry is cool but doesn't come close to overhauling the appeal. Your excitement at such a shallow element makes you sound underexperienced with other 3D action games to the point of having an overly narrow view in regards to how they've managed to balance modern design trends with the pillar of fundamental concepts you describe. Bayonetta and God Hand are much stronger examples of positioning and awareness being important in a 3D game that still fairly telegraphs most attacks and still lets you cancel into powerful defensive options. Sekiro is indeed an example of combat made shallow by an overly central defensive option, I understand anyone who's bored by it, but it's totally committed to its approach. It provides a flavor of style over substance while keeping the player in control and answering demands at all times, and is built to reward repetition and memorization as a mode of accessibility in a relatively brutal game compared to whatever other AAA RPG-hybrid slop. The appeal clearly isn't for you, but by writing it off entirely, you're ignoring it's expert understanding of human reaction ability which itself is a fundamental pillar of action game (and fighting game) design. It's almost as if different types of action games exist and not all games about launching hitboxes at hurtboxes in real time can be judged through the same narrow template! 😀

Bayonetta has this too with the direction parry, and doesn’t Zelda have that too since you need to perform a counter from a block which also leaves you vulnerable? It leaves you exposed and it’s a riskier approach because the block doesn’t remain.

you out here looking like the comfy guy my dude. nice!

What you say about the parry system with a direction is interesting, it makes me think that a space composant for this is a good way. Come to my mind Sin and Punishment where you have to aim at where the missile goes back, and Metroid Other M where you enter a direction on the D-pad to parry, resulting in a dodge in this direction to place Samus in the best way for the combat.

This game was extremely challenging for me to play at the time it was released, but I patiently stuck with it and learned how the game expected me to engage with it most of the time while still giving me the freedom to experiment with alternatives.. and I guess the second part of that statement goes to the core of what's you're saying here. Creating more layers with combat options and situational awareness. I'm glad I stuck with the game because it was very satisfying once it all clicked. For the sake of accessibility, though, I think you can still have a more forgiving parry timing window but still expect the player to get directional input correct. That would be a good compromise. I dunno if it's an age thing, but I'm almost 50 and I found that my reaction speed isn't what it used to be.

One of the comments here made me think of Onimusha. I loved the first 2 games, they were a great combo of character action and survival horror. A glitch in Onimusha is what inspired Dante's sword juggles in DMC 1 iirc. You should check em out!

Great points! I'm a pretty casual player who enjoys both Sekiro (playing charmless now) and MGRR (just finished a normal run), loving your technical discussions into game design. Sekiro's parry activation is similar to MGRR - you need to face an attack to be able to do so. I actually prefer MGRR's input method as that is more intuitive when fighting groups. You definitely need to think about spacing and who to attack first in Sekiro in group situations. (E.g. Juzou fight), fortunately Sekiro offers other ways to approach this(stealth). That said both game's focus is clearly different, Sekiro designed for one on ones and MGRR brawling groups. Most bosses you cannot win by just deflecting I believe, save for lady butterfly who is like a tutorial to teach you about parrying. You usually need to whittle down their health to a point where posture damage overtakes recovery to get a deathblow. I agree Sekiro's parry feels a tad overpowered once you get the timing down, sometimes I wish the boss would switch up a notch or get more aggressive once you deflect too many times to push you back. Even then getting the timing down for deflects is generally really hard, I find dodging, running around, keeping space and feinting to get attacks works easier and still fun, so there is definitely ways to get creative especially with prosthetics and getting attacks through small gaps in the long animation windups. I can't say the same about MGRR, where the group fights are definitely the highlight, but boss fights feel way more a slog and telegraphed than Sekiro. (Can you even win no damage without parrying Monsoon?) On the topic of getting combat to feel more dynamic, it feels like most brawlers throws more mobs at you so the situation is more unpredictable - if a single mob or boss's attacks is too random the player might feel unfair and stop playing. In Sekiro the bosses do do have some different perlious attacks and feints on random but could definitely do with more I believe. In many ways it feels like games do needs predictable elements to be enjoyable, finding that balance is hard and subjective. Would love to hear more about your thoughts on single vs group fights, also how attack speed and DPS affects game design (e.g. damage per second, e.g. attacks in Sekiro/Souls are way slower and less comboable than MGRR but more damaging to you)

Never came to mind that it was a parry game, I only found the parry necessary in the Monsoon fight.

Since I’m a Bayo nut, I’ll just mention that I think Bayonetta also handles parries quite well even if they’re not the focus of the game. A basic parry cancels an enemy’s combo and causes some brief hitstun that can be exploited but it also breaks the player’s combo. However, even on NSIC a basic timed dodge repositions the player, can be offset to avoid combo breaking, and doesn’t require a strict directional input, but it doesn't affect enemy animations. There are real benefits and tradeoffs to choosing between blocking or parrying, especially on the highest difficulty where dodging doesn’t proc witch time. I also appreciate the little attacks on Sekiro. Memorizing when to press a single button trivializes all of Fromsoft’s games to some extent, but Sekiro is especially bad with that.

The funny thing is, Bayonetta 3 did have an encounter selection feature (of sorts anyway). Monkeys paw wish granted for ya, I guess.

just noticed the part 4 poster in the back, epic.

love that Nirvana analogy! I feel like it's the same with Halo CE, fantastic game in a bubble but then every console shooter tried to be like Halo CE and failed at it, giving CE a bad rep.

Great video, love this game. Another game with a nice presentation and stage select system is lords of shadow, even better that you can change difficulty in any given stage, to me it encourages me more to complete and learn than having to clear everything in one go every single time. However you can change difficulty on the fly at the last minute but that defeats the purpose. I know it's not a game some are fond of but I think it was pretty good, same problems though, QTEs and such but overall I really like what was done, like a summary of action games of the last decade.

Mark, your mum said she wants her curtains back

Metal Gear Rising is one of my all time favorite games. Such a fun and challenging experience with tons of depth and huge replayability. I would love for a sequel to happen someday🙏 *i see berk👀

You want a character action game with a campaign that nails it, you should play Assault Spy. Hell, you should play Assault Spy if you want a good character action period.

Looking forward to this one!

Great video! I figured you'd be a big MGR fan. Even though it was quite popular, it still doesn't get the love it deserves compared to the other "cuhrayzee/action games". I think I actually prefer MGR and Bayonetta 1 to almost every other action game except maybe NInja Gaiden 2 (Though I like Vanquish better than all of them and it's not even close)

By watching your videos, I think there’s only one thing that you seem to get wrong or at least we fundamentally disagree. When you say no action game should have these “fillery platformy gimmick sections” or whatever that are popular on Platinum/Kamiya games I really disagree. We are only humans after all and performing a repetitive task often causes us to become increasingly careless. Psychologists call that “Vigilance Decrement” that apparently begins to take effect after just 15 minutes and one way of combating that problem is to give players a breather by asking them to do something else for a moment instead. That way I think it works on games like bayonetta and viewtiful joe and the wonderful 101 when you have to do a little puzzle or get some kind of key item in the area or whatever. Of course there’s room for criticism for some of the gimmick but that’s the core idea behind it all, I think. Anyway amazing video on rising. Sekiro really is one of my all time favourites and I find its parry more satisfying than mgr’s but I really get your point here.

Mark out here dressed like a white college girl’s wall nice shit Great video I’d like to also bring up Stranger of Paradise in this discussion where you treat your parries like a resource with your guard bar getting used up and raising your mp so it’s luring you into a mindset where you want to parry everything but you end up getting guard broken and your ass handed to you so you have to find different ways to handle attacks based on what your resources are like and I enjoy that a lot Sufficed to say Team Ninja stays on top in the action game genre

You are right on time..I have been eyeing this one for awhile..I dig parry based combat..Also right about sekiro. I think there is only one boss where you actually need to use the sidestep. It is a pretty decent sidestep too. Definitely underutilized. This is a great watch

I’m awful at parrying in any game including this one, but Rising was so damn fun back on the 360. Pretty sure now I need to buy it on Steam and play through again.

Absolutely fantastic video! It's such a strong discussion on a topic that I think gets glossed over, since parries "feel good" for the many casual, "one playthrough" players. But we do lose a lot of depth that was present in action games by focusing on easier, more frequent parries. My one disagreement is that while I do think it's fair to blame Sekiro for causing this boom in poorly implemented parries, I don't think that the game itself is actually bad. Unlike many of its copycats, Sekiro isn't trying to be an action game. It's trying to give a certain "vibe," the stylish Shinobi fantasy, the ebb and flow of clashing blades. The combat system lacks depth and player agency, but it looks and feels spectacular when you have a successful fight, which is the primary goal of that game. I'm like you in that I prefer action games myself, so I'm also not the biggest fan of Sekiro personally, but I do think there's strong craftsmanship behind it. It's different than when parries are shoehorned into other games where they fundamentally don't belong with the rest of the combat system

I've been saying this, but I found Sekiro to be a pretty shallow game. I had a lot more fun playing it like a stealth game than anything else, but then I found a parry system I actually really like in Stranger of Paradise: Final Fantasy Origin. The Soul Shield is an extremely high risk and high reward parry system that can pump up your MP meter (your main resource for special moves) really fast at the cost exponentially requiring stricter and stricter timing, getting you a single hit away from getting broken and therefore being completely helpless for a few seconds. How it works is that your Break Bar constantly drains while you're holding out the Soul Shield, with further drain for absorbing hits, but fully emptying it this way still allows you to parry with Soul Shield for a few frames, at which point the mechanic becomes a very high risk gambit. The Break Bar drains really fast, often becoming fully empty in the matter of Soul Shielding a couple of hits even with perfect timing. This extremely high risk plays really well with the other defensive mechanics of the game, allowing you to play risky to build MP, and then switch to safer dodging or regular guarding playstyle depending on what your job offers. I would honestly recommend the game so much if it wasn't enamored with meaningless loot and inventory management, it would've benefitted so much from less RPG elements like that. They seriously shower you with gear that says shit like "+2% strength" and expect it to matter???? Baffling. The Job system and level ups and skill trees do make sense in the same way Action games steadily introduce tools on your first playthrough so to not be overwhelming, a point I disagree with in the video is that they should just give you everything immediately, I think it'd just lead to players being far too overwhelmed to understand the place of tools in their kit. Good video overall though, I think the main thing I really like about style switch DMC is also how it requires you to actively enter "parry mode" and sacrifice some tools on top of the very strict timing, so even if the directional component is lost, it still has strategy and depth to it.

I really, really, agree with the parry discussion and I've had a the same sentiment for a long time, because I've played a lot of games that suffered from parry mechanics being one button fixes to otherwise nuanced situations. Samus Returns and Dread makes the existing combat mechanics obsolete, Rivals of Aether (which I love) has a parry that way over-simplifies shield interactions you can find in Melee, and even Dark Souls runs into the problem (why would you not just parry Gwyn when it makes the fight significantly easier). I've had an idea for a game design video which talks about analog vs discrete mechanics and parrying would have been a major focus of that, but its not just limited to that. For instance you could look at Castlevania jump arcs (discrete) vs Sonic jump arcs (analog) and how they service the gameplay or the horizontal movement in Super Metroid vs Hollow Knight. It's not that one is always better than the other but the primary focus of the game should probably use an analog system because there will be more depth and longevity, whereas secondary systems can be more digital in nature so they do not detract from the focus of the game. As you said in the video, once you know exactly what to do in a game using a discrete system, the game is kinda solved and its not very entertaining to explore it further. The majority of my favorite games use systems with a lot of variability in outcome because repeat playthroughs can feel extremely unique and I'm able to express myself as a player beyond just consistency. I think bullet hells are actually a great example of this as well.

As far as other Platinum games go, I really think you should check out Transformers Devastation. Same director as MGR, very overlooked game (+Vanquish of course).

What I dislike about mgr’s parry is that at least half the time the “post-parry-hit” doesn’t even conect on the enemy. Raiden swings his sword into the air because the enemy is not within range anymore. And that happens a lot, its super unappealing. It’s like your parry reward is not taking damage and thats it.

Interesting video overall. I was hoping you would have more criticisms towards Sekiro, but they were actually few and far between. Even if I disagree with some of the things you said, I can see the appeal towards MGRR over Sekiro. Not really my cup of tea. Side note, I implore you to play Sekiro without Kuro's charm and learn how to better utilize the tools and arts. Once you really learn how to incorporate those mechanics in with the base attack/deflect mechanic, it really opens the game up. You can do some amazing combos.

Everytime I told someone that souls (past ds1) or sekiro combat is braindead since it’s just about pressing few buttons in correct timing I aleays hear something like “well, every game is about pressing right buttons at a right time”. I always knew that this statement is so wrong but could never formulate exact answer why, and your take about the situational awareness is actually so damn right: no matter how crazy shit can look on the screen in these games, it will never form the same experience in the player’s head as an actual good action games. Great video Mark!

I don't play games with a parry mechanic, so I don't have much to say there. But regarding being depowered and how NG+ is the real game... One reason I love shmups is because it is just gameplay at its most saturated, and it's interesting to see how trends evolved in the genre. When it comes to power ups, shmups went from Gradius syndrome, to removing checkpoints and giving power ups on death for easier recovery, to removing power ups on death (Mushi), and finally to removing power ups altogether (later CAVE games). And honestly? More action games should just unlock everything from the beginning. I may praise Rabi-Ribi for being a masterpiece, but it's not without flaws. One part that sucks is how attacks have to be slowly unlocked in the beginning of the game, but it helps that this doesn't last very long. Unfortunately, the semi-spiritual successor, TEVI, doubled down on this. You have to slowly unlock attacks all the way until lategame. And after finishing the game, you get access to a modifier that unlocks all these attacks from the very beginning. Essentially, a NG+ mode. So... why not just unlock all the attacks from the beginning? If the purpose is to ease players into the mechanics and not to overwhelm them from the beginning, it's simple. Just slowly introduce tutorials along the way that reveals the existence of these moves. And even if some players are still overwhelmed, they can just stick to the basic moves themselves. Why artificially limit the better players for the sake of weaker players? When I frame the question like this, it becomes obvious how little sense this RPG progression makes. In a single player game, why should another player's own limitations affect my gameplay experience? That's the whole point of a SINGLE PLAYER game right? In a multiplayer game, this also makes no sense. You want the better player to win, so it doesn't make sense to weaken the better player at all. On a side note, now that I have a bit of game development experience, shouldn't developers be acutely aware of their games having poor replayability? If you're not having fun playtesting it, that the game isn't fun, period. I made two games for a game development course: a caravan shmup done on my own (that I should really work on more) and a puzzle game done as a group (actual puzzles, not puzzle action like Tetris and Puyo Puyo). I was having so much fun testing the shmup and I knew I struck gold. But the puzzle game? Wow, playtesting was just tedious. It has zero replayability and I hated the game way before development even finished. (It was what the group wanted to do, so I couldn't do anything about it. I already tried to push my idea to make a shmup but of course no one is receptive.) I think these modern character action game developers must have repeated fights over and over, to the point they are actually sick of an overpowered, centralising mechanic, right? How in the world did they think it was ok to stick with it? Are the people in charge of designing the game not doing extensive testing? In that case, maybe the roles of game designer and game developer must be merged...

Have you played the wonderful 101? 🧐

transformers devastation when?

hifi rush mentioned 🎶

I haven't seen anyone mention the little dig at Super Punch Out!! at 9:45, so I'll bite on that one. There's plenty of juice left in Super Punch Out!! after you know the patterns. Once you know the patterns, you can really start to dominate the game. The world record for fastest completion of the game just got set in 2022, 29 years after the game came out. It's like saying there's not much challenge left in a shmup after you can consistenly 1cc it, which we all know isn't true. I honestly think this video was uncharacteristically sloppy at points.

This game was pretty rad. FIRST game I played and beat during pandemic lockdown, so I suppose it has a special place for that as well. I don't think the player's attacks/actions never Quite felt as fluid and satisfying to me as in say DMC or Ninja Gaiden, however it was still quite good and fun to play. That final boss slow mo slicing section pissed me off though! Great review as always though!

You know I do indeed appreciate the directional input factor of MGR's parry, I think flicking the stick to your left or behind you to deflect incoming attackers is cool and quite satisfying, but you are hyping it up and going "new games make the parry too easy so you can feel cool without even trying"... meanwhile MGR's parry window is like deadass 2 seconds. Try it on Monsoon's big magnet wheel. You can input the parry before the thing even starts rolling. Imo MGR is actually one of the biggest offenders of "easy parry so the player feels sick despite not doing anything particularly impressive." Royal Guard in DMC doesn't have the directional component (unless you're going for a Release I guess), and it is significantly harder than any parry MGR ever made me do. Agree wholesale about Zandatsu being the worst part about this game btw. It is such a pacebreaker that is way too rewarding not to indulge in every now and then, and it's soooo slow and boring. Don't understand people who make the claim "it never gets old", unless they played the game like once. Blade Mode is cool but I have issues with tech that uses it in an interesting way having this quick zoom in and out which gives me a bit of a headache, and I think the "cut anything" gimmick, despite being wildly technically impressive, is quite underwhelming in its implementation, since aside from slicing limbs off when they turn blue, it's basically an instant kill and the actual cutting doesn't matter. I've had this idea for a long time now, but I wish instead of the clunkyass L1 quick use items, Raiden would not have any ranged attacks, but instead be able to cut up enemies or pieces of the environment to kick at other enemies as basically makeshift projectiles (similar to Viewtiful Joe). That way the way you cut would actually matter

If you liked MGR's campaign you should try Vanquish, it's short but very replayable I think it addresses your complaint about character action games and new game plus. Also, I'd like your opinion on Jetstream Sam's dlc.

When seeing this video, that reminds me of my play through with Breath of the Wild, and the parry, known as the perfect guard, requires several conditions to happen: There should be one or few enemies within Link's front facing direction Link should have at least one weapon available because weapons break. Link must have a shield available If Link has a one hand sword equipped, a shield is on the other hand If Link ha a two handed weapon, Link must put the weapon away to then use a shield When doing the shield, it is used to block enemies from the front position, but cannot cover side or back To perform a perfect guard, Link has to face the enemy in front and not let any other enemy get close The prefect guard is best performed when the enemy is about to make a melee attack or a powerful shot is approaching (Guardian) within short timing and close enough distance When the perfect guard is performed on a melee enemy, they are briefly stunned to allow for more combat options, especially arrows on the head to stun them even longer There is also another form of parry that triggers Flurry rush, and that is performed by doing a jump and going the reverse direction or side direction from an enemy attack based on directional telegraph and being very close to the enemy attack, and that is basically like a slowdown attack rush that also make an enemy stunned longer, but pushes the enemy away that requires Link to run towards the enemy before it gets up. The flurry rush could be done efficiently when the enemy is positioned close to a wall or corner that prevents the enemy from moving when doing such attack sprees. Because the majority of fights are in open areas, along with occasional small enclosures, players need to constantly read the spacing of the enemies and prioritize taking out ones that are least threatening before approaching ones that are larger threat. I personally find the Flurry rush a more potent dodge parry when dealing with multiple enemies facing the front. I barely use the perfect guard except for the Guardians, which they are the only enemies that require mastery of perfect guard due to easily telegraphed lasers, but not the same with guardian scouts laser beams that are more strict with perfect guard timing Druk's protection is an optional and toggle-able all area protection that can be useful in some situations, like many simultaneous guardian beams firing without being able to reach the front of the shield, as perfect guard reflects any laser beams that are towards Link's front while Daruk's reflects the beams from any directions. What are your thoughts on BOTW's use of parry (Perfect guard) and dodges (Flurry rush trigger)?

Amazing Poncho wearing skills sir

That poncho looks comfy af

great video!!

Admittedly I'm a scrub who mostly only plays platformers, so the parry mechanic is still a novel concept for me. The place where I most commonly see them are (unsurprisingly) indie platformers. I don't mind it too much in Pizza Tower, because using it is rare, especially in high-level gameplay. Having to parry almost seems like a punishment for bad gameplay ironically enough. There's also the Spark the Electric Jester series. I thought it was cool in 1 because it was combined with a dash, allowing you to go through enemies if you timed it right, which was especially cool during bosses because positioning mattered. In Spark 2 it was way overpowered because it was a 3D game. In Spark 3, parrying froze you in place and I mostly just relied more on movement unless I had to break a boss's shield. Oh yeah, I guess Sonic Frontiers also had a parry. That probably has the worst parry mechanic in any game possible and it doesn't even come close. During normal gameplay, you can just hold it down infinitely with zero drawback. The only time you actually have to time it is during a boss rush mode added nearly a year after the original release. Now instead of just holding it, you have to press it during really drawn-out and poorly animated attack animations where the boss is completely invincible unless you parry.

Glad this came into your radar to review, I always appreciate the depth and technical analysis of your reviews. So much of what we get in gaming journalism is just surface level dribble, fanfare for franchise sake, and unrelenting obsession with the need for every game to have a Hollywood script and online multiplayer. Have you seen or been following the title Slave Zero X that's set to release in February? It looks so engaging, I hope it meets expectations.

I completely agree about NG+ being the "real" way to play these games, unfortunately. I also think you nailed it right on the head regarding post-game modes being severely lacking in these games. They need more than just "bloody palace" type modes for their post-game content. It's really annoying. Hi-Fi Rush is absolutely fantastic and has some of the best and most varied post-game content of any of these games. I hope future games in the genre take a more thoughtful approach to their post-game content. To that point, while I absolutely love DMCV's combat, I hate the fact that they kept the stages character-locked in the SE. I will never understand that choice - it really destroys that game's replayability. For me it's such a shame, as I find Nero's combat in DMCV the most fun character to play since Raiden. MGR is probably still my favorite game in the genre (with DMCV having the best combat, imo, and Hi-Fi Rush having the best post-game content).

This is one of my favorite videos from you yet. I have always hated the Arkham titles and other bland capeshit games along similar lines but could never really find the words other than "it's dumb". There's a handful of games I've played that just have really terrible action and shoehorned elements. I know it's not supposed to be some super arcade-y action game, but the most recent Zelda's have some of the worst and most overpowered implementations of parrying I've seen yet. Which is funny because it's then outclassed by the horrendously broken Witch Ti- I mean, Flurry Rush that is so overtuned it happens by mistake. I always loved MGR. I remember hearing people call it mid or bad or unintuitive and I heard a lot of the same thing about Bayonetta 1, but I was head over heels for both games. Platinum was really on something good back in gen 7.

Def sick of parries. Surge 2 had a descent directional parry system too but luckily you still didn't 100% need to use it. Like Lies of P though it was heavily pushed & reccommended. But yeah i'll dodge & space myself instead thank you very much 🙄

Great games, sekiro and mgs rising. Love them both, even got the platinum for both. I think I enjoyed sekiro more cause the combat and parry had better feedback, it feels good pulling of those parries, and on top of that the exploration is great in that game, with a lot of verticality.

i vote for him doing the DLC arena in Nier Automata its just a bloody palace mode but its the only place where you can explore the depth of your options i just have a weak spot for Automata bcs of how nice some of the animations are. like even Bayonetta 1 (which i love) has this awkward running animation the Terminator running animation in AUtomata on the other hand is S+

I love the Metal Gear Rising parries, my favorite to this day. I wish more games would utilize it, especially FromSoftware games and even fighting games. But your thoughts on spacing are absolutely correct and I wish devs would take them more into consideration. A big gripe of mine are the damn rolls as a defense mechanic, very prevalent in FromSoftware games. I think it's ridiculous, unrealistic and lame. Instead we should have more dodging/dashing options and different parries as deffense mechanics.

It's funny you made this video because I bought En Garde during the Steam sale and felt like the game was held back by its obsession with the parry system

MGRR is phenomenal and RE4 absolutely went too far with the parry, i agree with you there, but a lot of the Sekiro stuff in this video is wild. Spacing is super important, there are viable alternatives to the parry (blocking with meter and positioning management, i-frame dodges, prosthetics, and execution i-frames all go a very long way when used in appropriate situations) and attacks that go right through it that require different responses, tracking is very reasonable, i could go on. I've had more fun on every subsequent playthrough of the game by finding new ways to use combat arts, movement, and prosthetics in boss fights. I have 150 hours in that game and at least 100 of it is in the reflection mode, fighting bosses over and over again, just like Metal Gear Rising. The combat encounters in Sekiro are every bit as engaging, replayable and variable as those in Meral Gear Rising for me, it's just a very different game. It really seems like youre ignoring a lot of things about Sekiro to make it fit your points when comparing it to MGRR is inherently flawed. They're massively different games trying to do massively different things.

8:53 It is hard to agree that parrying strategy is easier, to me it is a way to involve player in action since you do not just crush enemies thoughtlesly. As you mentioned, you have to see with what your enemy will come up, read telegraphing and make decision is it time to attack or it is time to parry and spacing does not gone anywhere... at least this my impression about sekiro, as opposite example ghost of tsushima you mostly solve positioning to avoid backstabs and then chose target chose stance and make combo - done. you absolutely not interesting in what action your opponent does, you just get closer and make combo whereas sekiro do not forgive your reclesness, it gives you thought that there is time to attack and there is a time to defence, it is not simply: when you defencing - you not attacking, it more close to reality where you can not attack always like a machingun. but I agree with your idea that situational parry would be much nicer. in sekiro it is situational dodge

The parry system and posture meter in Sekiro have a specific design purpose that fits into the studio's overall vision for combat: they were attempting to simulate the ebb-and-flow and feeling of tension that comes with close-quarters sword combat. They were using the combat mechanics to capture a particular feeling, not create an exquisitely refined battle system. This inclusion needs mentioning as it serves to differentiate Sekiro from games like Rising which incorporate an approach to combat you obviously find favourable. Now, I completely understand anyone preferring one approach to combat mechanics over another, but it seems unfair to offer up a critique which negatively chastises a game like Sekiro for an approach it never set out to follow. I do get the impression sometimes that your critiques are aimed at addressing perceived injustices or misconcpetions in the gaming discourse. In the majority of cases, I think you do a fantasitc job and are easily one of the most perceptive and thorough commenters here on TY. However, we are all human, and occassionaly, I feel that your critiques are held back due to your contrarian impulse to "deflect" these perceived injustices.

Funny thing is the people I know that play Sekiro like MGR instantly get wrecked. Also in Dark Souls positioning doesn't really matter if you fight individual boss as long as you master parry technique which arguably more rewarding than block or dodging