This is just brilliant and so inspiring! Just the possibility and ability to connect music over different places and time is like magic to me! Wonderful! Please continue to create some of these videos about Pat's & Lyles music again! Of course, the music of these geniuses inspires by itself. But it's just so beautiful and inspiring to witness you diving into the possibilities of inspirations and compositional approaches behind these fantastic compositions and improvisations! And especially this fantastic unique composition and Lyles dream solo that takes it on some completely uplifting levels! I am listening since 40 years to this and it sounds always endlessly fresh and inspiring. So thank you so very much for sharing your insights! I just love every moment of it!
Thank you for the kind words! I’m so glad you enjoyed it. This one is one of my favorites of the Metheny/Mays videos I made (the one on San Lorenzo is another one). Thanks for watching and for the comment!
i saw "First Circle" in the title, and clicked Play right away! my favourite PMG album and one of my absolute fave tracks. it's also the CD that Pat autographed for me. i've always felt that Bach was a very "jazzy" composer. the harmonies he produced were sometimes very "jazzy" and surprising. somewhere in the middle of a passage, there'll be a surprising chord or harmony.
Thank you for this wonderful comparison of Pat/Lyle with Bach. Though I usually associate Lyle more with Bach, I believe Pat said that he's responsible for this section of the piece. I like how this could be a stand-alone section, but the "chorale" line relates to a number of other sections in the piece. I can't wait to hear the rest of your analysis of my favourite piece of music by Pat and Lyle!
Thanks, Matt! There will be more videos for sure! I'm almost sure the line was written by Lyle. It requires counterpoint abilities and vision that has always been part of Lyle's contribution. That line wasn't easy to study because of the unusual timing of the phrases. Also, the piano part that Lyle played along with The interlude is really something - so elegant and sophisticated. In his songbook, Pat indicates who wrote what, but I believe these two things were left out. I think what you see in the "chorale" comes from the same mind that produced the vocal intro (Lyle). It's very sophisticated in terms of the timing against the rhythmic pattern. I love Pat's compositions; he has his own strengths, but counterpoint in the level of Lyle is not of them. Lyle to me is one of the best counterpoint composers in history - classical and Jazz. A situation that can happen in a band (happens with Radiohead) is that someone will say "I imagine a line that goes something like that" and then another member will take it from there and actually compose it. That's also a possibility.
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer I agree that the line was likely written by Lyle. Perhaps Pat just wrote the guitar parts and Lyle added this "chorale" line to it? It wouldn't surprise me if Pat didn't bother to mention this contribution of Lyle's in the Songbook, and I would understand if Pat couldn't be bothered to break down each piece of music in that much detail. This piece of music shows what I think is typical of Pat and Lyle's contributions to many of their compositions: Pat writes an AABA jazz tune (and in this case added this guitar interlude before that section) and a related solo form, then Lyle comes in and adds his classical-inspired and more advanced compositional elements. But in this piece Pat already set quite an unusual foundation with the unusual meter and the changing meters. I know that Pat and Lyle worked a bit more collaboratively in their last decade of writing together, but I imagine they still wrote a lot on their own.
@@matt-spaiser this is exactly how I see it. The interlude itself was composed by Pat. Then Lyle "examined" it and came up with the "chorale" line. Pat is the visionary here, with all the main material written by him, and Lyle was so good at understanding it and adding his own. Like coming up with the intro in Daulton Lee, or the basic groove of the Minuano intro. He's so good at seeing the potential of things.
Since I first met your site some weeks ago, I've been waiting for your analysis of this piece in particular, which is kind of the perfect PMG composition. Thank you very much for sharing your great work with us.
I would say First Circle is Pat’s masterpiece. He humbly does not even do a guitar solo in it. I believe its in 22/8 time - very hard to count. Thanks for the thoughtful analysis.
I agree, Pat knew what's best for the music and in this case it was a piano solo. The 22/8 is less complicated if you learn the specific pattern Metheny invented. They pretty much stick to it through the entire piece.
Probably the highest compositional point of PMG, Pat and Lyle at their best. As usual splendid Video masterclass, love that you smartly pointed out J.S Bach in this , the source of so many great music and in all history. Cheers Guy!!.
Thanks Sergio. I agree with you on this being such a high point, you can sense the drive to desperately make something special. It's like trying to write a fugue for the first time - you have to rely on instincts and faith. I think Why The Way Up is great is because It has some of that too - the intention to create something significant even if they didn't know exactly how they were going to achieve it.
That is so true. Personally The way up is en epic attempt to work a large form from a kernel, but First circle, is probably one piece that made me want to be a musician. At some point, do you think that great music writes itself ?. Past a point of conscious and intuitive decisions , this guys seem to follow an inevitable dictation. ( I remember an awesome video of Leonard Bernstein Playing excerpts of discarded sketches of Beethoven`s 5th symphony, and commenting what might have been Beethoven`s process. ) And here, not just for the technical - musical challenge, but there´s also that ecstatic element of all happening in one gesture, mind, music, spirit, X element or however. Like You say. In the best music you just forget about the genre you were listening to. I sorely miss that element these days, in which technical means are all mastered out but... As a side note, what´s also notable is how they balance this complexity with such an almost innocent , childlike scale based melody doubled with metallophone (like you show in the video in comparison to the Chorale ).
Every time I watch your video posts, I dive into creative minds of two oustanding musicians of our time. Let me tell you - it's quite a journey! Thank you for that!!!
Sir, your analyses and breakdowns of Pat and Lyle's compositions somehow give them a whole new life. I've seen PMG live 3 times over the years and saw Pat 4 times in various formats, 3 times as a trio with Christian McBride and Antonio Sanchez, the last time in 2018 with his quartet of Sanchez, Symcock and Oh. I have around 15 Metheny albums, 3 May's albums, and 2 the DVDs More Travels and Speaking Of Now. I know every note, melody, guitar and piano solo, drum fill etc on every track of every album, from Watercolors and As Falls Witchita, thru First Circle, Still Life Talking, Secret Story, The Way Up, and so on. And today I just bought From This Place. I am so grateful to have discovered your channel here, and have been passing it on to other musician friends who are loving it too. The dedication you put into these video analyses is fantastic - it must be beautiful to play their music tirelessly, getting something more out of the music each time. When I heard of Lyle Mays's passing, I was genuinely in shock, and it didn't wear off quickly, still hasn't really. Lyle was also responsible for one of my all-time favourite quotes regarding music, in the More Travels DVD when he replies to a question (and this may not be verbatim): "Music has its own vocabulary and syntax. It would take me far longer in words to explain why I play that note next". Such a terribly, terribly sad loss. Again, thanks for your amazing analyses, which are fabulous reminders of just how extraordinary beautiful and unparalleled the music of Metheny and Mays is.
Once again an interesting analysis of Metheny's/Mayes's composition. "Yolanda You Learn" although very different rhythmically has a similar approach, layering high pitched melodies over lower pitched melodies. The effect, particularly considering the contrasting timbres employed, is magical and creates a rhythmically, disorientating effect.
Dr. Guy Shkolnik, you're missing perhaps the most relevant piece of counterpoint melody, which is played by the bass. Listen again to the song and realize how beautiful the stand-up bass follows the main melodic lines, sometimes with sophisticated scales. Great song!
Love your dissections sir. I know you've concentrated on Lyle & Pat's songs but I'm hoping you'll progress to the incredible Vince Mendoza please. it would surprise me that you haven't heard of him but if you haven't please check his comp/arrangements out. Genius. Thanks Doc.
Thanks, Peter! The thing is, I'm able to make weekly videos because I rely on music that I already know pretty well. When I sit down to design the video and playing, I kind of know already what am I going to focus on, how I'm going to connect it to a song, to a Bach piece, etc. With Vince Mendoza, I just don't have the same level of knowledge. The best videos on him will be done by someone who really knows his music.
Are you trying to induce our minds to do a spiritual PhD research of Bach's music and coevals by introducing subtle messages on Pat Metheny Group music videos? Just kidding, good material! I know it's the idea, but you're doing really well on showing us the mixture of baroque concepts and jazz music.
Maybe I am... :) I've always liked identifying the same principals across the different styles of music. To tell you the truth, when I planned this video, I thought that the Bach example would be the star of the video. But as I was editing the video, I realized how truly great the Matheny/Mays example was.
Thank you for posting these videos. I am a great fan of Pat Metheny and I love your analysis and interpretation of his work. You have a great touch. Would you be willing to share the sheet music/transcription of First Circle with your fans here on RU-vid? Or do you have recommendations for where to get it?
Hi Erik, thank you! When I prepare a video, I look for the song on either the Pat Metheny Songbook or my copy of The Way Up. The songbook is much more detailed than Pat's recent Real book. The Way Up score is very complete with all the essential parts. Many of the Lyle piano parts are written out accurately. In cases like As It is, I transcribed some of the music myself. When it comes to pieces like Bright Size Life - I find my way of playing it, without writing it on paper. So these are my sources. Do you think to make a few videos of how I arrange for piano would be a good idea?
@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer Thank you for your reply. I appreciate it. And yes, I think it would be great to see some videos of how you arrange for piano. Thanks!!
@@matteozardinilacedelli7966 Matteo I think on the piano it's easier to play something minimal that sounds nice - than it is on a guitar for example. If you want to do it - Do it. Casio have really good digital pianos.
Shalom! How is Dr. Schkolnic doing!? I am coming by for 'the interlude'. It's been driving me even mOre nuts. i haven't had a computer and did not want to learn by sheet music. i have had 'a channel' but don't bother please, it was mostly when i have gotten pretty upset and just played whAtEver extemporaneously. Well, where else better to try to understand the interlude more accurately?! ThAnk you in advance and blessings to all @Fisrt Circle lovers!!! -Jeff
