Scott O'Neil on Pat Metheny's "First Circle" 

I would rec this a thousand times if I could. Thank you.

I even think, he is Beethoven and Chopin too. And not just because of his haircut. ;-) This man is simply genius. So many different styles are living in his mind. Everytime I listen to his music (and i do this for almost 35 years now) I discover some new sounds, new chords, new styles. I do not get tired of listening to his music.

Or, Infinite Circle...

LUCKY Y🤓U‼

SERℹ😙USLY‼

Like an angel.

+spaisflex It wouldn't surprise me if it was Mays that came up with the form for the piece. My impression is that Metheny came up with most of the melodies for PMG tunes but it was Mays who did most of the arrangements. That having been said, I prefer to hear Metheny in a simple jazz-guitar-trio setting!

+Owen McGee The heart of the piece is written by Pat. Pat wrote the baroque-sounding section, the main melody, bridge and solo form and wrote the ending of the piece with Lyle. Lyle wrote the vocal intro and the interlude after the solo.

The closing theme to "San Lorenzo" is definitely down to Lyle. He seems to echo it in the main theme of "Close to Home."

DrummerFlex agree Pat is not Pat without Lyle. First circle might Be the most perfect song ever written.

Might? It is!

Yeah. What a huge gift. Where would we be without Pat?

And thanks to his parents primarily ;-)

+John Mitchell Green, I thought exactly the same. I don't have any musical training at all, but I have always sensed that it was a most unusual piece with complete disregard for usual conventions - yet, contrary to most "experimental" pieces (including some by Metheny himself, as in "Song X" and "Zero Tolerance..."), it's absolutely beautiful and moving. I'm addicted to "First Circle" and I need to listen to it once in a while to restore my faith in life and humanity. It was great to listen to an expert telling us what we laymen don't notice in such simple and understandable terms. And one could see how Mr. O'Neil is as enthusiastic about it as we are - perhaps even more.

+AliothSenator His way is cool. I might treat it as mixed meter and conduct in 4/4, 2/4, 3/4, and 2/4, just to keep the beat consistent and that way it lines up with the big 12/8 and 10/8 bars.

+AliothSenator each beat is actually an 8th note , the way to practice imo is in patterns of 3 2 3 2 2 3 3 2 2 thats actually the pattern that you hear pat during the intro the first note is played then the remaining beats are clapped ie. the first pattern play c then clap twice to fill the remaining beats

3/4, 3/4, 2/4, 2/4, 2/4 (12) 3/4, 3/4, 2/4, 2/4. (10) So the second time around, you just leave off the last two beats. Or, its: XXOXXOXOXOXO XXOXXOXOXO where each X is a hand clap (beginning).

@@kenaldri4923 Almost. It is 3/8 2/8 3/8 2/8 2/8 | 3/8 3/8 2/8 2/8 or OXXOXOXXOXOX OXXOXXOXOX.

@@martine.210 yes, I just checked a first circle vid. It is a bit more complicated than I thought. He splits up the two 3/8's first time around. Thx. You can also think of the first 12 pattern as a 5 followed by a 7 (not 6, 6). Also, Pats notes are on the 1, You don't clap on the 1.

I was wondering the same thing. Maybe something to purchase?

Looking at the chart in the Pat Metheny Song Book, I now see that the claps occur on all the eighth notes that do not fall on the asymmetric beats.

@@johnplink Scott was demonstrating the rhythm by tapping on the piano on the off-beats. It's a brilliant way of introducing the unusual meter while not giving it away right from the beginning. Then when the piano and guitar come in with the on-beats, everything falls into place.

@@matt-spaiser I figured that out a long time ago, as you can see in the comment I wrote above.

It will be more confusing if you try that because the rhythms don't break down that way. The pattern is made up of 22 beats.

You're right. But Pat probably wrote it in a Bach-like manner, improvising it and writing it down, then tweaking it.

Writing credits on 90% of the songs, so there it is.

@@joeymac3969 Pat did more of the writing for the band than Lyle did, even in most of the tunes they wrote together. Lyle is one of the brains behind the band and deserves plenty of credit, but Pat deserves at least a little more than half of the credit for the band.

Pat is a jazz master. Lyle is a master of jazz and classical music. You can hear Bach chorales in First Cirle. I am a big fan of PM but the pinnacle was the PMG thanks to Lyle.

Pat got the inspiration for the unusual rhythms after working with Jerry Goldsmith.

The 22 beats break down into 3+2+3+2+2+3+3+2+2, so if you're going to split it up it can be 12+10. But you still need to put the focus on how the beat is broken up. You can't really cut it into 6+5+6+5 because there's no even split.

Not all. It takes inspiration from Bach, Ravel and Stravinsky too. Pat got the idea for such an unusual rhythm after working with Jerry Goldsmith. The inspirations for First Circle come from all over the world.

It's not. You can't break the rhythm down that way. It's why we have 2/2, 2/4 and 4/4. They have different feels. First Circle doesn't feel like 6 and 5. It's 12 and 10 if you really want to break it down from 22.

It's (3+2+3+2+2) + (3+3+2+2).