My grandson: grandpa what was the great migration of 23? Me: * vietnam flashbacks * It was a time of great despair and saddnes to dnd community, like never see before, even worst than the satanic panic. We only survived cause of the kindness of a old foe, or should i say brother....
Words are one thing... But these guys back up with consistent action. It's not marketing, they actually like the gaming community as evidenced by their actions.
It is easy to 'care much more about the fans' when you're not carrying the entire industry on your back. This crap will blow over in a few weeks, we will get the D&D movie and the majority of people who left will come back. It's happened before almost exactly this and it will happen again with the same end result.
@@mattsmith1859 nah a ton of people already had their issues with 5e and even more with one, im betting a large chunk of the community will not return unless something happens
As an existing fan of PF2E, I welcome all our new friends, refugees from D&D. I hope you will enjoy this system and world as much as I have! Also, yeah, Archives of Nethys is all you need.
Well, said! I've been a PF2e GM since the playtest and have converted D&D3.5 players to it, which is saying something. We love the system and have great fun.
A question about Archives of Nethys. I see that all the rules are available but is there something I'm missing that gives you a walkthrough of playing the game similar to what you would get by reading through the Player's Handbood in 5e? I feel like I could play based off of Nethys alone but it would be a janky play with lots of rule gaps my group would miss or only find out about after who knows how long of play.
@@SauceMario you are missing out on a lot by not reading the Core Rulebook. If you don't mind reading on screen, it's cheaper to get the PDF. If you have a tablet, you can search it while at the table.
To the new players.... Welcome! Odds are you'll like it better over here. Even before Wizards/Hasbro took a steaming dump on their fans, I preferred Pathfinder over 5e. A more advanced and flexible ruleset imo. In fact, it reminds me of the old days when we had two products; D&D and Advanced D&D,.or AD&D. I was always an AD&D guy. It ended up kinda the same. D&D, made by a toy company, and a new AD&D, called Pathfinder, made by Paizo. This is much more like the move from D&D to AD&D back in the day than it moving to a new system. You already know how most of Pathfinder works... And the differences? Actually better over here imho. You sacrifice nothing by moving to Pathfinder in a boycott. It's the better rule system from a better publisher. In short, come on over because you are angry at Hasbro, stay because odds are you'll like Pathfinder more anyway.
Thank you for the welcome! I am hoping that I'll be able to absorb as much pathfinder info as possible in 2 weeks before I start gming what would have been a dnd game. (I've gotten through the core rulebook so far.)
@@elaniarkady7351 you'll be fine. All your campaign ideas work. All of their basic character concepts work. They might shift a bit, the player that wanted to be a fighter/mage should a look at the Magus etc.... But if anything it will be a refinement of their earlier concepts. I chose Pathfinder because the rules were crunchier and more flexible. Allowing wiser range of characters, setting and scenarios. Once I got in, I found a more gamer friendly publisher and great community. Rumors of an exodus and expectations of 'refugees'.... Just wanted to back up the original videos thoughts make sure everyone feels welcome here. Don't be shocked if you end up liking this system better and wish you were here the whole the time. You would NOT be the first with that experience.
@@elaniarkady7351 You should check out the Pathfinder wiki. Paizo's world building and lore for Golarion is awesome. Even if you don't use it as a setting it can be great inspiration for your own.
Long time D&D player, but thanks to Glass Cannon, I've been exposed to PF. Now that Hasbro has decided to go full Dark Empire, I've decided to give PF2E a look...and I have to say...intrigued by both the Gunslinger and Swashbuckler.
My group and I have been playing Pathfinder for years, played through 2e playtesting and then switched to 2e a few years ago. Simultaneously, I am dming a dnd campaign (maybe we'll switch to Pathfinder too now...). Honestly, the rules are not very different. The only thing that I really preferred about dnd was Advantage/Disadvantage system that was very intuitive. One major other rule in Pathfinder imo are the Critical Hit/Success and Critical Fail rules. And there are critical successes for mages too, you guys! All in all, I think you'll get used to it very fast. Pathbuilder 2e is a great - and free! - app for Pathfinder 2e, which I can really recommend. It is your mobile character sheet and much more clearly arranged than the dndbeyond mobile app. Makes character building and level ups very easy.
I love playing Pathfinder 2e. It's a great game. But I recommend trying a bunch of games. For example Blades in the Dark made a huge difference to my mindset on how I roleplay and make stories fun.
Absolutely! We just focused the video around one, but other games we are playing right now include the new Dune TTRPG, Runequest, Call Of Cthulu, ...our Avatar The Last Airbener Rpg just showed up....and then we have the Gloomhaven RPG in a few days..........we may be playing in too many TTRPGs lol
I'm also excited about the ATLA rpg, the Apocalypse World engine is really good for genre specific gaming, Dungeon World is great for pseudo Dnd, Masks is great for young super heroes like Young Justice, and Monster Of The Week is fun monster hunting in the vein of Supernatural. I also really learned a lot from GMing Fate, a lot of narrative and storytelling emphasis that would work well if you were playing rules lite game
My experience with Paizo is extremely positive. My starfinder book that i preordered came in, opened it, and the spine and the pages split from the glue. In less than a day i had a new one on its way to me. Paizo cares about its customers. Pathfinder 2e is extremely fun to play in!
I'd say it would be a better idea to start with the Beginner's Box. It's a good starting point to get used to the system before tackling anything bigger.
Beginners box isn't a bad value at all, our goal was just the cheapest transition for existing D&D players, but you can't really argue with the value of that box!
at least the top 5 OSR dnd clones .. a natural attractor for 5e refugees. Also, maybe the top 5 fantasy rpgs that are NOT like dnd, and maybe the top 5 non-fantasy genre games, like CoC etc .. anyways I rekon thats a good start
The Dark Eye has a fantastic world with many interesting cultures + a in-game history that grows since the game was released 30+ years ago in Germany. But the system can be a little overwhelming for beginners. A old saying in my first group was: The Dark Eye let's you build any Charakter you want, even if said Charakter seriously never should go out on adventures 😂
Pathfinder 2e core rulebooks have nearly all but sold out in the UK - at least if your looking for the pocket edition XD. Thank Nethys for AoN whilst I wait.
I've always had DnD on my bucket list, but now I have Pathfinders on my bucket list instead (thanks WotC OGL disaster). I've played countless video rpgs (my go-to genre), but never a TTRPG. Your explanation makes Pathfinder look even better to me.
I weathered the OGL storm of uncertainty only to see WotC's PR nightmare of hiring Pinkertons to shake down a guy for having misdelivered cardboard. On the lookout for alternates, thanks for this pointed and specific advice video!
For the migration of my players to pf2e adventures... Eberron to Golarion, I have decided to consider Eberron an inner earth world connected by 4 magical portals to the outer world Golarion. One of the portal is at the north pole. The 3 remaining ones are near the 3 biggest cities power centers of Golarion. Players will hence arrive to Absalon through flying ships for the 100 year festival in pf2e Agents of Edgewatch
A couple of small clarifications... There are no skill points to spend in second edition. Instead, it's all about proficiency, which is based on a bonus from rank, plus character level as long as you are at least trained in the skill. So your bonus for trained skills increases every level. On top of that, you get to increase your proficiency rank based on your class (EX rogues get a single increase every level, other classes may get them at odd levels). Very few of the older Adventure Paths went to 20th level. I believe that all of the six-part ones for 2nd ed do. This is because the system is more balanced and playable at high levels than 1st edition was. They also have started making 3-part AP's, some going from 1st-10th, others from 11th-20th. Cheers!
Im playing a kobold inventor who has taken the discipline feat to 'multiclass' into alchemist. Riding atop a clockwork kobold mech that has a pile bunker, chain saw, a shoudler moutned launcher, whilst I am breathing fire and throwing bombs at my enemies!
My group and I played pathfinder 1e for 4 years and was just transitioning with the Dragonlance module. We're still gonna play it since it was purchased before the drama, but definitely upgrading to 2e pf after that
We are doing our 3rd session for P2E on Saturday and we are excited. Even with WotC going back on intentions I don’t see myself ever going back. The character creation alone is so much fun.
Also there is a very good character builder for both mobile and pc. It is pathbuilder 2e. I would still recommend watching a guide or something on character creation so that you know that there is much more options then it might appear at first glance as far as character building goes.
As someone who's only been in the hobby a couple of years I'd not encountered pathfinder yet. It astounds me how much more fleshed out it is, it's like D&D is a barebones version of pathfinder, rather than the actual way pathfinder came to be.
Something neglected to be mention in this video (and unfortunately many like it) is that a big difference between the two games is that the numbers in general (especially at high levels) are larger, as many things add their level to rolls. This is a HUGE difference for people coming from a game used to bounded accuracy and frankly creators who neglect to mention this are outright doing those coming from 5e a disservice. It makes a huge difference in the tone of the game as low level monsters that were previously still a threat at mid to high levels are effectively useless for the DM now and anyone trying to make most skill checks at mid to high levels is basically all but wasting their time if they try to do something they aren't trained in (if the game will let them do at all). This is NOT just a simple change to the game and is DEFINITELY a big con to some people who like the smaller numbers bounded accuracy keeps. And as someone who frankly thinks that that was the single greatest change from precious editions for 5e, I am NOT a fan of the bloated numbers of PF2E. Food for thought for people considering switching.
i built a couple characters on pathbuilder and noticed this as well which put me off pf2e, do you have any other recommendations of ttrpgs similar to 5e?
@@elleryschmellery So there is actually a rules variant of PF2E that makes the game feel more like 5e, where you basically play the game without adding your level to everything (it's in the Gamemaster's guide), though it also requires the DM to alter the monsters and DCs as well, and others will claim that the game becomes "unbalanced" in higher levels (it does, but frankly I don't consider that a bad thing). As for alternatives? Depends what you're looking for. Savage Worlds is great for simple and fast paced play, but is MUCH more rules light than even 5e. There are a number of other great games, but many don't work as well for fantasy campaigns.
As a long time player of PF let me heartily recommend Herolab for PF character sheets. It was effectively the standard in PF 1 and is very good in PF 2 if not quite standard. It is not a monthly subscription. You buy it once and pay for any PF books you want added to it, yes it adds up if you buy everything but so does a D&D Beyond sub. The PF 2 version is just online IIRC and the PF 1 version can be used online or to print physical sheets. The reason I prefer Pathfinder is very simple. I am usually the one who DM's and Paizo started out as a company making products for DM's and while they certainly make stuff for players they never lost that focus on making products to make a DM's life easier and better. If you're a DM and you aren't familiar with Pazo's product line go look. Literally dozens of full campaigns of modules, called adventure paths that will take a group from 1 to mid teens or 20, dozens of stand alone modules, many play aids to make your life easier at the table (including ones that will make you stop and say I've always needed that and never knew it).
Pathbuilder is 100x better than DND Beyond character building. I don’t know if it prints sheets, but if you’re playing online or have a device at the table, it’s top notch and only costs $6 to include all character building options published by Paizo while also allowing custom entries.
I’m not gone from D&D, but Pathfinder seems cool so I think I’ll play it if I ever get the chance. Also, Mutants and Masterminds is an amazing one everyone should check out. All of its rules are available online for free as well.
Hehe. I have never been a refugee before, but I’m not sure I am now. I only played dnd because my friend did and my kids wanted to try it. I honestly don’t really care about dnd. But those PF2e rules are outstanding. I can’t wait to run a game.
I'm still playing Pathfinder 1st edition and will eventually buy some 2nd edition. Love how much 3rd party stuff is made for Pathfinder by Kobold Press(Southlands, etc) and others. D&D lost me at 4th, and I've never looked back. But to be fair, i do love warhamner fantasy roleplay, fantasy age, world of darkness, cthulu, and 40k dark herasy(new version of sorts on the way), just to name a few. Best time for people to try some different flavours of rpg.
I"m VERY much considering switching but only when my current campaign finishes as its close to a close. I'm gonna be playing after and then, depending on what happens in the next 1-2 years I'll be ready. But Pathfinder is a VERY close contender
I was always a Rolemaster GM most of all. I play 5e because I have no other option now. I guess I will go back to Rolemaster when my student group stops next summer.
Looking intl running a pathfinder 2e game for the first time. I play in a 2e game and have been playing d&d 5e for a few years now as both player and gm
Do you (or anyone offering constructive comments here) have any advice for people who find Pathfinder *too* crunchy? I tried PF1e for 4-6 weeks last year and it just wasn't my cup of tea. Folks say things like "more flexible" but I find it to be "more fiddly," way more math, floating modifiers, and clunky, requiring consultation of charts, and modifier comparisons. Seriously, I'm not here to troll, I'm not happy with the OGL as well, and would like another option, but I'm pretty hesitant about Pathfinder. I already have a lot of experience, played the Storyteller System (Werewolf the Apocalypse, Vampire the Masquerade, Exalted, etc) back in the 90's, played Risus, read a lot of FATE, tried reading Powered by the Apocalypse (but keep bouncing off), plus 5e and PF1e, so yeah, lots of experience with other systems. Always looking for another tool in the toolbox.
Yes! There are a couple great fantasy alternatives. Blades in the dark is a great system, and definitely less crunchy! Numenera is another great one to check out as well!
Look, I know that because is pathfinder 2e the initial assumption is that the game is going to be like pathfinder 1e, a game that's basically the sucessor of dnd 3.5. But then you have dnd 5e, an actual sucessor of dnd 3.5. The difference is huge, and so is the difference between editions of pathfinder. In 2e is way easier to deal with numbers
I love paizo. But if you want to are highlighting differences and using attacks of opportunity as an example, get the example right. it's not leaving a threatened square in 5e. It's leaving a creature's reach. you can run around a creature in a circle and as long as you don't leave it's reach, there's no attack of opportunity. (this was probably balanced by removing the mechanical benefit for flanking, making that movement generally less advantageous)
Guys the true answer is Dungeon Crawl Classics, its simple and easy and gets complicated when you level up and get more options togheter with the fun, the more you discover the more you roll the more situations you pass, the more fun you get. Try it now DCC!
Thanks for the helpful video! I've been running a 5e game for years that I'd now like to migrate, and Pathfinder seems like the perfect evolution for it!
I’ve recently picked up the Kingmaker 2e collection. Am looking for players! Oh, right, probably in the real world. PF2.0 is about as mainstream as I get with my gaming, it’s a great D&D alternative. In fact, I reckon the game rules are substantially better. So welcome aboard!
have been playing pf1 myself for years. im even dming a campaign, my second one. pf1 is a great system and there is soooo much material for it released that is hard to come up with an original idea that hasnt been already done before. i say all of this because this video covers the how, but i think that it leaves the why behind a little. the why is very important and i just wanted to say that pf1 and pf2 are systems that have a lot of customizations for both players and dms, but do so in a way that is very easy for both. is actually a very good system, give it a try, not because wotc is trying to scam you, but because is actually probably a better system in the first place.
I played the adventure card game in Iraq with a friend to pass the time and recently picked up the 2e core book since they were so kind(and cheeky) to have a 25% off sale.
Talking to my roommate last night, the big issue is finding a game that everyone in your group wants to play. He has gone through years of trying different ttrpgs with his group and no other game has ever made the cut, and they returned to D&D.
I been part of the DND community for awhile and been learning the system for 30+ years. I am now trying to go toward a different route that not overly complicated. Pathfinder 2e sound like a good idea since I am in a group that is switching from dnd 5e to PF 2e. But alas I seem to be an odd one of the group and would need help in it. My character is a Topaz Dragonborn Soul Knife Rouge/Trickery Domain Cleric. Need help with converting. As for the video. Thank you this actually sound like a lot of fun back when it was 3.5e DnD.
@@TheCharacterSheet speed will be key before people just forgive and forget and hasbro release there VTT. Now people will say I won’t go back bla bla they will, if hasbro stop this greedy push they will recover
I've already sunk a lot of money and time into D&D... but I can't happily continue on. I'll finish the campaigns I'm already in or DMing, but I will support Pathfinder from now on. It seems like they care.
Nah, man. I will keep on playing DnD with pen and paper and 90% homebrew using just the physical core book I already have as a reference. Also, I'm not sure I'll enjoy the specialist thing where one must be a master of a certain skill to pass a check (since the diff quickly become 30, 40, etc) and therefore automatically fails at skills they're average at. If I understand correctly, if a character has low to average INT, they auto-fail any INT check soon when the game progresses? Is this correct or I misunderstood that part?
My biggest question about running Pathfinder 2e is how monsters are run effectively. I saw that many of them have multiple feats but are then not described. Do other DMs look these up all the time and won't that slow down the pace of the game?
Currently in the first third of a curse of strahd campaign with some friends. I am never ever handing over money to WotC or dnd ever again. As soon as we are finished CoS, I will be switching to pf2e, and I'm already hyped!
Current 5e player, my group just switched from 3.5 (not even Pathfinder 1e, actually 3.5) a couple years ago, and I did play a bit of Pathfinder 1e when it first came out, before a lot of the options became bloat. I am tentatively looking at 2e, I picked up the Humble Bundle that just started up. I just know that, while I'm all for something different and more character options, I don't want something as excessively crunchy as 3.5/P1. I'm good with a bit more than 5e, but I don't want to get too crazy. So far though, hearing good things.
I love how the first itme around it blew up in their face and they never wanted compitition or another pathfinder ever again. Then they learned how to turn the same mistake bomb into a nuke.
Welcome! Welcome! Have a seat. The ale is cold. I am loving this all. I want to play PF2E so much more but the stores here, like everywhere, are dominated by 5E horde. So it's play 5E or don't play at all really.
My biggest problem with pathfinder is not that I am prevented from playing without buying a book, it's that I absolutely love books, I NEED it and can't get it around here. It's apparently sold out in my COUNTRY. Sheesh... guess I might have to order one from Paizo directly and hope they still have 'em.
Actually turns out to be easier if you have access to the internet during play, websites like pf2easy make looking up any rules easy. Played a game with 5e refugees last weekend and they mentioned "as soon as you realise there is just more character options to pick from, the rules aren't that more complicated"
Is there any way to take Pathfinder off of the "recruit" setting that D&D 5e (and 4e) never leave? You know, maybe something less than the hit points of an ogre and the attack of a dragon by 3rd round?
After this video I'm now sure will not switch to Pathfinder. I chose system already, but if we play DnD will homebrew the 3 actions (that is nice) and remove the opportunity attack as the example above (maybe special creatures or higher lv monsters will have it. The other things appear same stuff.
Thank you for posting usable content that isn’t a long winded rant against WOTC. (And while I am at it, thank you for keeping us abreast of the latest developments in SHORT videos. Short-ish, at least. I don’t know if I represent anyone else, but I’ve made my analysis and I’ve made a decision based on that analysis. To sum it up, WOTC/Hasbro is an unethical company that I will not patronize again. I don’t trust their promises one bit, and we have no more hope of making them change than a domestic abuse victim has of changing their abuser. The only answer is to leave the abuser. So I am in GREAT NEED of videos like this one that will help me transition to another game system. Your work is greatly appreciated.
FATE is a favorite of mine, it is great for doing a narrative and story. My favorite personal touch to it? Is dont have a gm, have everyone tell the story as a group. In combat just have a different group member besides the one being attacked roll or describe the effects of the attack done on anothers character. This is especially cool when someone is seperate from the party, but still at the table...and now they're running the bad guys. Now you dont have a bunch of mooks who walk into swords, you have dynamic creatures acting how the players at the table think they should. Retreating or setting traps or otherwise acting in ways that are "cool". And FATEs method of handling defeat makes this a benefit, not a demerit. As defeat allows players to return better prepared later in the adventure.
I would ultimately disagree on 'a lot more options', compared to PF1. PF2 has many things to recommend it and things that I feel it does strictly inferior to PF1.
@@captaincrash9002 Eh... That's one way to look at it? It IS good to consider the type of game you're going to be playing when designing your character: What other point is there to a Session Zero than to make sure we're all on the same page? Games where some characters work (and concepts there-in) others don't work. Building to your character's strengths and so you can do what you need to do is important. Character design that is more 'whatever' always... bothers me. I tend to build around character concepts, and it is hard in a lot of games where they don't give you a breadth of meaningful choices. That's all.
I embraced fourth edition because I saw that it fixed a pigeon hole problem in 3.5 (even though it created the opposite problem of same-y-ness which fifth has fixed without recreating the original problem). A friend tried to get me to play Pathfinder first edition and I saw that it had the same pigeon hole problem. I'm curious if second edition still has that problem, so let me elaborate and give the specifics. You can do anything in D&D, but it's pedigree is really battle centered tactics and war gaming, so it's frustrating when entire archetypes are told that they aren't going to do anything through a combat centered campaign. My realization of the problem in 3.5 was when I tried to make a sneaky ninja based on an anime character I liked who would throw weapons from the shadows. Halflings are supposed to be stealthy and stealth and finesse weapons need Dex, so I built that only to find that the low strength small character could only do d2 damage if she threw her weapons within 15 feet of the monsters. The group laughed at my ineffectiveness for not building a barbarian or paladin for three rounds before the DM decided my character was going to be petrified by the gorgon. In 1E Pathfinder I tried to build a gnome bard and learned that he'd get two spells a day before he'd be useless in encounter after encounter because he was too weak to even draw a bow. Is this fixed in second edition, or will I get told that a character without a high strength can't contribute in combat and doesn't belong when inexplicably hostile monsters attack out of nowhere?
In pf2e you have to go out of your way to make bad characters (by doing stuff like not maxing out your classes main stat). In general the difference between an optimized character and a character where each decision was made on a whim isn't really noticable.
Question: I am thinking of converting my World and future campaign to Pf2e from DnD. But a huge part of this world is, that there are dragons hidden all around the world. Either just hidden from the eyes of men, or hidden in human form among them. For example, the immortal emperor is actually a gold dragon who goes way too far with punishing crime. Now to the question: Is there a mechanical way in Pf2e for the dragons to have human forms? Looking at the sheets for the dragons, I don't see inherit shapeshifting (or at least non-duration ones) like in 5e. I am always up to homebrew, but prefer it to stick to the rules whenever I can.
Looking at exclusively the systems, ignoring the company, dnd 5e is like the “tutorial” rpg, it’s simple and easy compared to most, pathfinder is the “advanced” version of that by design, which is much more balanced and with much more choice and flavor in every catagory
They have one that is almost finished, called Pathfinder Nexus, which is linked in the description. But for character creation, we suggest Pathbuilder 2e
