Pathfinder: WotR - The Re-Review 

It't a shame Mortismal doesn't like this game. If only he gave it a chance.

Forget Romeo and Juliet, this is the true story of absolute love, Mortismal and pathfinder

Mortim is helpful, is he not?

New series: Re-review after 200%

My God, the Build Planner/Saver bit is something they must implement for future games. Haven’t found mods that cover that either.

I'm just starting out my Wrath of the Righteous journey right after being done with grad school. Very excited to try it out ever since I've bought it six months ago! Can't state enough just how much of a role your videos played in convincing me to try out the Pathfinder series. Thank you so much Mortim!

Have loved this game since release. Two things that don't get nearly enough praise - Dmitry Silantyev's incredible musical scores, and the gorgeous art style and look of the game.

200% review? Thanks for your videos!

Can't wait for The Re-Re-Review!

Your passion for this game has inspired me to give it a second go, we have very similar taste in games but I bounced off this one hard the first time, I figure if you like it enough to pump out about 30 videos on it I am obviously missing something 😂

This game will always be special to me and my friends. My tabletop groups very first campaign was a homebrew thing my DM made over a decade ago that was basically this story but without mythic powers. So when WoTR was announced we all had a good laugh.

I might finally get around to finishing a playthrough of WotR. It took me 3 years to finish a Kingmaker playthrough. It wasn't/isn't down to bug/glitches, I'm one of those people that constantly restarts rpgs.

I have a confession... I looked up each and every puzzle in the game.

I think Pathfinder 2e really simplifies all these systems and I look forward to a CRPG interpretation of that

I’m doing a lich warpriest mantis zealot run right now and getting to the top of drezen, even though I’ve beat the game atleast a half dozen times, that music hits soooo hard. The game is a masterpiece

Thank you for all the quality content you put out. After 3 BG3 runs I'm now tackling WOTR based on your glowing reviews. If ever you're looking for content ideas, I would LOVE a video detailing how you manage Realtime With Pause. I only know turn-based and I'm struggling to find the same breadth of tactical decisions with this type of combat. Cheers!

Games like pathfinder should be right up my alley, but I always get the feeling that there's a lot of complexity just for the sake of complexity that leads me to disengage. I can certainly appreciate what others like about it, and I'm always im the lookout for Owlcat's future releases

+1 to the idea of build blueprints that the player could prepare and edit anytime ! (and import or share) That would have been so awesome and popular.

Best crpg that has a sense of adventure, memorable companions, an outstanding soundtrack, and high replayability. I love it, it must be one of my favorite games of all time.

Your commitment to giving an in depth review of such a large game is staggering! Honestly think you're the best reviewer on youtube... And beyond for that matter!

Brilliant. This is going free on Playstation Plus Extra this month. So this channel will be a great 'preparation phase' for when I get chance to start it. Thanks, Morty. 👊✌️

I just started it and was going through your catalog of videos only to see this one was dropped 20 minutes ago lol

Haha, a re-review! You’re the best 😜

I'd definitely agree on how combat basically just feels like a number crunch, when the Tower of Estrod right in Act 1 actually shows that they COULD do more with the environment in or pre-combat. Being able to sneak around the side of a group of enemies, position your party members in the most advantageous positions (archers/spellcasters on a ledge, melees blocking the only path up), before using the environment to wipe out a third of the opponents before combat even starts (pushing a collapsed pillar to crush a few demons)? There's so much missed potential in more encounters around the game being like that, and it's why that part of the early game stands out as one of my favorite encounters in the game. Not a bombastic encounter with a Demon Lord, not a story-critical conflict, just this little band of demons and cultists sitting in a ruined tower. But because you can tackle it from such an outside-the-box angle, it becomes that much more memorable to me.

as the other comments said, its not too late to retitile this the 200% review !

Your passion for this game always makes me smile.

A cool thing I learned about crusade mode: the mercenary units are limited to units you unlocked in previous runs. So you want to take every option at least once to have all the options available. so the game gets bigger every playthrough just from that.

hey im glad you came back to this! this game was how i found your channel in the first place and i'm glad to see it come full circle. cheers. brilliant work as always

Hey Mortismal, is the story better than kingmaker? I tried kingmaker, but I stopped cause I HATED the story. Everything else like gameplay was fine. Is Wrath of the Righteous any better story-wise?

I love how dedicated you are, so much quality in you content.

Talking about bugs when video shows Swarm-That-Walks and Deskari is prima sort editing.

The modular difficulty is important because "playing on in story" is nice but you can't nessesarily learn the game that way. People that want to get better can slowly make changes as they improve and it's a much better way to make things approachable but also let them grow into it

Gah don't tempt me... I know I should start seriously replaying this game again, but I also have a full time job and university, but I so desperately want to commit to playing this whole thing right through *head explodes*

Really looking forward to tomorrow when this hits PS+!

Maybe a video about what you would like to see improved in Owlcat next PF game?

10:09 I think marking some classes as good beginner choices would be a better choice than removing things, but I suppose that could work for the next game.

This is coming to playstation plus in a few days and your recent videos have me so excited. Thanks!

Heh. The swarm ... is "buggy" ... Well done, sir

Their Mac support is greatly appreciated

Thank you for going over the dlc again, I watched your dlc video but this is an excellent recap as well

thanks foe the Re-Review of Pathfinder: WotR and so much Content over the Years. I found the Channel throught the game in the past. I hope for Pathfinder 3 with new rules :)

Thank you for the re-review. I saw your complete story video yesterday and I am going to listen to it after I finish the current podcast I am listening to. Liked, commented, been subscribed for a while.

Thanks for everything, Mortismal ! You deserve what came with your passion around this game, and that includes my sincere admiration. What I would add in the positive list (or a nuance for the negative one) are the purple words and info tags that come with them. My first playthrough of BG3 was all raging frustration about my lack of knowledge on the lore, and I realized how ingenuous WotR was on that part.

Thanks for the re-review. It's good to go back to see how something have aged. Onward to 400k. All glory to the algorithm.

I’m glad they kept and hope they continue to have story and custom modes. I know basics about pathfinder through kingmaker, but I tend to change the strength of the enemy if my party is starting to wipe. They do a good job with making these games as accessible as possible.

The length of this game just scares me. I finished Kingmaker last year and i put in over 160 hours into it on just 1 playtrough (but doing everything that i can with the dlc off course). I heard that this game is even longer and especially if you play on turn based mode which is the more popular way to play?

Thanks man. :) Just started a new playthrough.

I just managed to get a cheap Steam key for the main game (enhanced edition). I'm nervous about the amount of investment required, but for the entry fee I'm prepared to give it a chance, given the potential rewards of getting immersed in such a world. I'll be checking out your beginners video. Wish me luck!

Thanks to your channel and the fact how much I enjoy playing BG3 I want to play crpgs more (I used to play a lot of them way back in Amiga days and early '00s, but stopped for some reason). For my first playthrough of WotR I want to go easy and just get to know the game, so Paladin-Angel and normal difficulty for me lol

Since I can't be arsed to make an individual review of my own, one thing I will say that puts WotR above any other CRPG for me is that it is the closest game to achieve what CRPGs are meant to be, the closest to getting to the core and soul of the genre. What do I mean by this? This needs some background first. CRPGs are an acronym, meaning "Computer Role Playing Games", and that's for a reason. Back at the earliest days when video games were still at its infancy, RPGs meant Tabletop RPGs, and CRPGs were made as an alternative to a TTRPG. A version of a TTRPG that can be played at the computer, and where you can enjoy the rules of an RPG on your own (although many early RPGs were multiplayer). The reason that it succeeds more than any other CRPG in this regard isn't just because it's a fairly accurate depiction of an actual TTRPG, or that it's because there's a lot of customization options. Those do help, but those simply support the core reason. I think the main reason it succeeds more than any other in this regard is because WotR feels like YOUR character's story. WotR focuses on your character more than any other CRPG out there. WotR goes to very great lengths to have your character be your own. Many CRPGs, even good ones, feel as if the character is simply a vessel for the player to see stories in that world unfold. The character is there to do tasks for someone or something else. To see a bad guy's redemption arc, to see a companion's story through to the end, to save the world; but in the end when you look at your character, the character of your making feels... empty. It never feels like your character had much agency of his own, any ambitions. He just did what he's supposed to. Your character can be good or evil, have a romance with someone, be the strongest character in the world... but who is your character? What is your character's story? In many CRPGs, you can make decisions to shape the world you're in, to shape the companions you're with, to change the story, to decide the life of an important NPC... but what about you? Tabletop RPGs were originally meant to be your character's story, what your character does in adventures, and where your character ultimately ends up. This is your personal story about the character you personally created. In CRPGs, this is barely the case any longer. It's not necessarily a bad thing, I think many CRPGs of today are more reminiscent of JRPGs in structure (for reasons that happened in the 90's), which I also enjoy a ton. And this is where WotR comes in. Practically every aspect of the game, from its character creation, its story arcs, its mechanics, and more are designed in such a way to make your character feel like YOUR character. This is YOUR crusade. You may serve Galfrey (or you may not), but at the end of the day, you are the true leader of the crusade, and every final decision is in your hand. Your council may talk about what kind of decision to make, but no matter how much Lady Konomi seethes, you are the one making the final decision. YOU choose what kind of character you become. This isn't just limited to class options, romance, or alignment, but the entire Mythic Path system is predicated upon letting you become the character of your own choosing. And despite the complaints about the late game mythic paths, this is also the genius behind them. The late game mythic path choices allow you to make an evil character that ascends to goodness, or a good character that falls to evil, or rejecting it entirely. You didn't choose to have this power, but you are ultimately the one in control of molding it. Even in Act IV, where you can be forcibly stripped of rank and your control over your crusade falls apart, it's still affecting your character, first and foremost. The biggest blow in many player's mind isn't to the crusade: It's to your character, and your pride, and Owlcat knows it, considering what happens in Act V. The main villain's ambitions and story is even directly related to YOU. In fact, you can say her ambitions is all about you. You are her greatest creation, and even so, she is not in control. She created you, but your story, and hers in return (especially in the secret ending), will all be chosen by YOU. What happens at the end of the game is ultimately of your own choosing, and how it affects YOU, not just the fate of the world. Be an Eldest? Be a Demon Lord? Have the Abyss as your Phylactery? Cease Existing? Very many decisions in the game influence not just a faction, not just a companion, but YOUR character. In PoE2, you were essentially just a pawn of the gods and the guilds around you. In fact, you might as well not be present in the game's main story, and nothing would've changed. In DOS2, you're the "chosen one"... in a very long list of other chosen ones. Despite the plot importance of you being a Godwoken, at later acts every skill you can do, pretty much some random high-level skeleton can also do. Also, almost every important decision is made by Malady instead of you. In BG3, it's a very similar case to DOS2, although at the very least you and your party don't see Illithid powers as often. Instead of Malady, it's the Emperor making the decisions instead, although this time you have more say. In the final act, it can feel pretty bad if you choose Orpheus to be illithid/side with the Emperor (which a lot of people do), and you basically just feel like a glorified bodyguard at the end climax. In WotR, every aspect of the story feels personal to the progression of your character. Almost everything is tied to you. Even if there are characters that can order you around (really only Galfrey and Nocticula), it happens so rarely and is always kept in theme with the story, and you have a lot of control over the fates of those two. Whether or not you're their willing ally, or someone who's simply in it for power, or someone who's doing everything just to close the Worldwound, it's all up to your character, and the game provides narrative options to make you feel that way. Pathfinder WotR is certainly not perfect, but if it does anything great, it's the fact that it makes me feel like the game I'm playing is my character's personal story, and I'm not just a passenger in someone else's story. And that's glorious.

honestly haven't played this game before but have, since it's release, played BG3 and Disco Elysium. After being done with SOTE and stumbling upon one of your videos on WotR I decided to give it a shot this week (steam sale). all I can say is thank you, this is a great game and I'm having a blast - currently on chapter 3, Sohei Aeon path :D edit: in the perspective of a new player, who never played TTRPG and just a 3-4 cRPG, it took me a while to understand what was going on level ups - like, when do I get my extra attacks, what's the advantage of leveling a certain class vs multiclassing (which dont seem to be that advantegeous?). but honestly, the amount of different classes is really exciting! I'm not even done with the game and want to just start the campaign again with another character. I know I've used the character creator multiple times by now

I feel like "inevitable excess" should be the motto of Owlcat, which is why they adapted Pathfinder and its trillion of min-max opportunities, then 40k and its bonker setting

So I bought both Pathfinder: Kingmaker n WotR on sale, loving Kingmaker so far, timers aren't bad so far but just got to Kindom tutorial, n not sure how Time flows while doing events n regura adventuring. Playing as simple Barberian n Octavia is most useful companion so far.

As a PF GM, I wish they would do the 'Skull and Shackles' AP next. Was a blast to watch my players react to embracing the pirates life. They loved having the freedom to the sail the world.

Thanks for the review! On sale at Steam right now and I've been putting it off for ever.

Just started a new playthrough thanks to all your videos, so thanks for that I guess

One of my favourite games, one day I'll see what the last two thirds are like.

I thnk you're the only one who love this game as much as me! I've run WotR as a DM in table top pathfinder, and it was so awesome to see it come to life in this game@

I played on core when it came out. The enemies were difficult, but often I'd come across enemies, not bosses just normal enemies, that'd have like saves and spell DC's that were ludicrously high. Like they poured class levels on them to bump up their HP, AC, and attack higher but failed to realize what this would do their other stats. So there was no real chance to put status effects on them, or strip them of spell defenses, or I'd like get a disease/curse put on me that no one in my party or any NPC would actually even be *capable* of removing and it'd just kill me as I traveled on the overmap. Is it still like that or was that sorted out at some point?

its always impressive to me how many times i 100% agree with you. i was sitting here thinking "ey ey? does he talk about the puzzles?" ye ofc he does, top vid

I love that you love this game as much as I do.

Thanks

One of my favorite games ever made but I can’t play it without mods

Even after over 200 hours in BG3, I can still easily say that I love Wrath of the Righteous more.

Really looking forward to playing this on my steam deck

I loved this game's char creation. One of the best. You could seemingly create anything!

Your choice in gods even if minor having some effect on gameplay is one of my favorite parts of this game. When i was betrayed being able to declare in the name of calistria that i will get my revenge and her being like hell yeah revenge let me help you with that have some wasps, is a moment in gaming that sticks in my mind more than any epic set piece battle.

Can we get companion guaide for begginers and recomended class for mythic path

I've lost count of how many playthroughs I have on this game and yet I am watching this video

I’m only just now sieging Drezen but I have 72 hours combined between 2 playthroughs because I made a bad choice playing a Knife Master rogue (Autoattack: The class is boring). But all in all, it runs like a dream. Haven’t had a single crash and the only bug I’ve encountered is Daeran and his pet spawning at the beginning of the Lost Chapel on reload. Runs incredibly well compared to both of the Pillars of Eternity games on console.

I love playing Pathfinder wotr and I love watching Mortismal talking about it , I could spend hours doing that ... Shoosh it's 2024 already , I've BEEN doing that for years

Reading really gets me more involved with the story even if its just a time commitment bias.

and the re-watch!

I saw last night they added this to PlayStation game pass and I played for a few hours straight and I had not really any idea of what I was doing but I was having a lot of fun doing it!

Good timing - I have never played pathfinder but I have played 100 hours of so of WOTR starting a couple weeks ago. And all I will say is magic missile; look at what they did to my boy... I just wanna blast... I don't wanna use battering blast, I want to shoot MAGIC MISSILE Fun though I absolutely disagree about the complexity of character creation, because that's something I love seeing as a new player - it's just like "oh there's going to be so much fucking around in my future" lol I would say that for enemy-specific things EG fey adding mouseover tooltips saying "this enemy is not very common in the areas in which the campaign takes place" just to make it so people have a fair warning they're going challenge or roleplay by choosing it. My core complaints are: - It's pathfinder. I never liked 3.5ed - mandatory buff stacking is just a waste of everybody's time - and pathfinder really hasn't fixed this. The different buff stacking categories actually reduce choice in practice because you essentially "should" be taking a buff of every type at the highest level that can apply, and there's usually only 1-2 best candidates. This is not all downside - I like some of the pathfinder changes to base dnd, and it's a throwback kinda feeling - but the core system annoys me - The lack of an ability or spell queueing option. Having kotor/kotor 2 style 2-3 move queueing so you can just select a character, give them a sequence of things to do with targets - would go a LONG way to obviate the lack of... - customisable companion AI. I love RTWP but I would love it a lot more if I could just set up fairly basic priorities and actions for my characters - Lack of out of combat ability utility. But this one is straightforwardly not their fault given the budget and scale of the project, so it's not "they did this badly" as much as "I wish it was more" - Inconsistent voice acting feels odd but the voice acting that is there seems quite solid? I have no major complaints All in all the game was much better than I expected, and I have been enjoying it. I don't understand why I can't rub Camellias face in all the weird stuff you find at her house when you know it's her house but I guess they had to delay that one. I love the puzzles but an option that unlocks on completing the game you can choose at game start for "puzzles auto-solve" would be a nice nod to replayers

As someone whose first language isn't English, it's exhausting to read through a large amount of text in games like Kingmaker and WotR. I believe that in the next Owlcat's game, having voiced dialogues could make the game more accessible to a wider audience. I appreciate what Disco Elysium did in this regard. After the game sold well, they used the profits to add full voice acting to the game.

the amount of character building variety in this game scratched an itch for me, that bugged me since i last played the neverwinter nights series

Crazy timing, I just bought it 2 days ago. As a BG3/Dos 2 fan, I’m finding the fights to all be straightforward

Great stuff. I've been replaying Kingmaker since I decided to run the tabletop version, and while it was refreshing to play at a slightly lower power level than WotR, I'll be bouncing back to WotR next. Owlcat really needs to make actual interfaces if they want to do stuff like the Nenio puzzles. Those are my biggest obstacles to replaying Wrath.

D&D 3.5 is my 'home' ruleset, so I *love* the Pathfinder system (they are very similar). I like the number of options at character creations, and the 'specialization' of different classes. That being said, I hear you on the complexity for new players. It's a lot... and I LIKE that it's a lot. I'm being selfish here! ;) While I enjoy the character creation, combat & even the overarching story is good enough, my biggest issue with this game is that the relationships with your companions & other NPCs feel a little thin. The rest of the game is THICK though, so maybe this is just meant to be more of a tactical game than a RPG, which is perfectly fine! You can only focus on so much. Tactics are fun too.

Great review! Thanks for all the work you put into it.

Excellent look back and came at a good time for me as I'm also in the middle of a replay, just finishing Chapter 4, so it is fun to hear someone else's thoughts on the game at this stage. Personally, while I've been playing, it has been weird reminder about a larger issue I have Owlcat in that I like their game despite the encounter desing rather because of it. Like their encounter planning is weird in that it introduces these wild difficulty spikes and, especially in this game, at times in segmented fights. And while I'm so experienced with the game that even playing with Core, there are still out of nowhere these encounters where I can't figure out why they felt something was necessary. To give an example, a difficult one due to wanting to avoid spoiling the game, the final fight of Chapter 4 is a really difficult one in a way that makes sense. But when I finished it, I was relieved because I had two dead companions, but two resurrection scrolls which I was willing to use for that occasion. Except then I realized that the boss had cast baleful transformation on my clerical spellcaster companion and turned them into a dog. With such a high DC for breaking it that it would been essentially fishing for a 20 even with my current party and with no way nearby, at least in my current recollection, to break it and ages from actually having access to someone who can help with the matter. So there I was left extremely frustred and puzzled why did Owlcat feel that was a crucial thing to have in the encounter or why not give that way to address it if you did. Sorry about the rant, it's just that again during this replay on multiple occasions I am left wondering who is the core target audience in Owlcat's own mind? And I write that without even touching on the starting fight of Lord of Nothing.

I just beat my first playthrough of this game and it was great. Quite a few hiccups along the way. Definitely a bit of a grind to understand the game. But once you get there it is an extremely rewarding.

4:15 - "I did run into a few larger bugs,, Me too, Deskari was the biggest one so far :>

This is a great review, it isn't flawless but it is still a great game. You also blew my mind with the idea of an optional custom auto level progression from a player created saved build/template at character creation. 🤯 That would be a great feature to implement in all of Owlcat's CRPG, really in all CRPG.

Loved the game but didn't finish because of the system. I wish it was 2e, where pre-buffing is way less prevalent. Even with the module, it was a chore.

Nice Video! Are you gonna do a BG3 Re-Review after Patch 7 with the new evil endings as well:P?

I will say, when I bought the game 2 years ago and tried it I was overwhelmed. I have played plenty of RPGs, but this one really seemed too much. The first 5 hours or so are really unpleasant, tedious, hard to follow and dull. I put the game down and didnt touch it for 2 years. Finally I got some time and decided, why not give it another chance? And I did. 200 hours later I can say this game is definitely one of the best. But you have to get past that initial barrier and that is not something new players like to hear. If someone finds the game too cumbersome or confusing, play it on the lowest or a custom difficulty, automate the level ups for companions and mess around a bit. See what feels more comfortable. And don't be scared of looking things up. The game is too long to expect you to make mistakes that cost you 30 hours later if you don't like those surprises.

I wish with the time he put into this game we got his feelings on the romance options

Next week review: Return to WotR, thoughts after one week of Re-Review. :)

This was such a a great game! After this review, I really hope Owlcat gives pf2e a chance as a crpg system

Let’s gooooo mort been waiting , I pulled the trigger on this after you gave me a great recomendación with Rogue trade. Gonna need your vids to figure it all out

I actually really like this game a lot, just started playing it. Build crafting is so much more fun with 20 levels as opposed to 12.

This has been a clutch vidoe especially since they're gettifn ready to out it on PS Plus soon

I would like to see a new game with pathfinder 2e setting and ruleset, but maybe that's just me. Nice video, thanks. 👍

After watching Mortismal's favorite game of all time list, I decided to buy it after never hearing about it. I hope I like it nearly as much as he does

I gave up when I got to crusader a couple years ago when picking this up. Watch a few videos on tips on this, gave it another go recently and so glad I did. To sum this game up in one sentence: paralyzed by choice but worth every second.

I finally got WotR this steam sale because of your videos. I first got only base EE, got to Drezen, then got the season pass 2. Gotta say, Kingmaker's timers conditioned me to be efficient with my rests that I managed to take Drezen early enough to get the achievement without trying to. I thought I was taking my time leveling my general lmao. I agree there are too many options, not only for classes but also for feats. I feel that a lot of options and feat chains exist just so that Paizo can say that you get to pick something every level, even if the thing you pick is just a prerequisite for the thing you really want. In this regard I prefer D&D 5e's approach of giving you few feats but each choice is meaningful, although I admit that during my playthrough of BG3 leveling up and immediately going to the end screen for level up without any choice felt a bit lame.

lmao this is the second review of this game i've watched from you and i still haven't decided if i should buy it or not apparently it will be free on PS+ tomorrow!! i hope it's as good as you make it sound

Bubble Buffs is a requirement imo. Huge QOL improvement mod. Lets you set three different levels of buffing, and one click casts all the buffs in which one you hit.