Patrick gets upset over one man's brutal murder by arson, and reveals his own plans for what he'll do if he gets his hands on the man who slaughtered his family
Throughout the series, Patrick openly shows indifference to the law, the powerful and the petty tyrants. But, he is basically an honest man. He couches the truth carefully within jokes and banter. But when he lies, it's open to the world to see. Beautiful writing, graceful acting. One of the best shows ever...
Actually nah. He is anything BUT an honest man. Something that Cho mentioned, the death of his family made him a better man, in a sense it humbled him. He was sneaky, manipulative, exploitative, basically a consciousness con man. That’s why very few people respected him until they interacted with him and realized how smart he was. Until then, his reputation was that of a con man, which he was. The only person throughout he seemed to show some loyalty from the beginning, was Lisbon. Not only because she took him in when nobody did, but also because he could tell she’s an honest person with no ulterior motive, his exact opposite.
Graceful acting? This show was an open stage for garbage talent to come on and play guest characters. It's like they had a $1000 budget for each new actor for each episode. Maybe 2 times per season they had actual decent guest stars. It really takes away from the great performances done by Baker and Tunney on a regular basis.
"He's our bait, our tethered goat." "And too bad if the bait gets killed?" "Well, yeah that's why you use goats instead of babies or vigrins." the sincereity that he said that with made me laugh!
As the series progressed, Jane became a much nicer guy particularly after he killed Red John. It seemed that the weight of the world was lifted from his shoulders. You could tell that he really loved Lisbon and cared deeply about Abbott, Cho, Rigsby, Van Pelt and even the more minor characters like Wiley & Vega. I doubt the psychic Jane could have felt much at all. Jane wasn't a psychopath but was definitely a sociopath due to his upbringing and was likely deeply unpleasant until his wife and his child were murdered. Cho was right - his wife's death made him a much nicer person. Jane was a really sweet guy at times in Seasons 6 and 7 - it was great to watch his development as a character. Great TV Series. I just wished they could have done a tie in with Lie to Me. Seeing Jane and Lightman working together would have been awesome.
+Alex J He wasn't a sociopath. A fake psychic, tricking and ripping people off, yeah. Deeply affected by his family's death and still traumatised years after, looking for revenge, sure. But definitely not a sociopath.
By book definition, he was. Not psychopath, but a sociopath, learned on purpose and changed into by murder of his family. All to block out his emotions and the only one target on mind, Red John. However he does learn to forgo those behaviours. =]
Mike Hamilton As someone who studied psychology, Jane definitely showed signs of sociopathy, which I think is completely understandable considering his life's tragic journey. However, he also had an incredible understanding of people, which could also be attributed to his upbringing and would have been an important tool for him to protect and sustain himself in a true hard-knock life. All-in-all, he was an amazing character, played amazingly well with boundless evolution and depth.
I love the fact that underneath the playullness ans aloofness of patrick there was a deep dark desire for revenge.A bloodlust.Which is totaly understanble
this is one of the episodes that I'm actually afraid of Jane. he always smiles, jokes around and acts like he doesn't care but he's actually observing and calculating you.
Even with the guy he first thought was Red John, he just got the confirmation he needed and shot him. Then sat down, drank some tea and surrendered. He even made sure to leave a tip for the waitress.
No he didn’t. He didn’t realize it til afterwards when he found out someone had taken Not Red Johns gun and phone. I actually just rewatched that episode last week
Jane wasn't being cold. He was being honest. Justice isn't always synonymous with law. Law is concrete but justice is more abstract sometimes. And for people like Machado and Red John, law isn't always adequate when it comes to justice.
The greatest example of this are the Nuremberg trials. They literally had to break the _lex retro non agit_ rule, otherwise there would've been no basis for convicting the German officers.
@@Xoruam The Nuremberg trials looking back were mostly winners putting the loosers to trial for loosing the war. Its really a slippery slope the US opened there and the blatant hypocrisy regarding their own affairs. For lots of the crimes there was an allied equivalent that wasnt put to trial or huge crimes f.e. by Stalin that no one gave a fuck about. How they decided the judges, what witnesses to hear and whom not had nothing to do with a real legal process. Not that I disagree with putting down some of them but to paint this as a legitimate trial was a farce from the start and political agenda first. If you go by that in most US wars pre ww2 and during the us military would have been stood trial at the end. Read up on Smedley Butler f.e writing about it.
Can you believe there are people who think Robin Tunney wasn't a good actress? This show wouldn't be anywhere close to perfection if Simon Baker didn't have an equal weight partner next to him
"If you try and do violence to him, I will stop you" That failed! "If you succeed in doing violence to him, I will arrest you." No you didn't. You ended up dating the guy!! Lol
+Vin KK Lisbon hasn't reached her limit yet when she says that. I think the show implies that everyone has a limit towards holding themselves back from violent revenge.
Vin KK I just finished the whole series. I think it's impressive that Jane would talk abt revenge in a matter-of-fact way. Usually characters would get emotional or agitated. Jane also has a lot of patience unless he gets an obvious lead to Red John.
This is a very powerful scene. Poor Patrick's bitterness is eating him up, but because of his experience, he is determined that justice is served to people who have been wronged, just like he has been. I love Simon Baker. He is an absolutely brilliant actor.
Not so dangerous. Red John could have killed him 100 times. And without the team, he is so dumb in his relations to people that he could get himself killed several times a week.
Just like the entire show promised much, much more about Red John than what actually happened. Beautiful clues and red herrings which were never explained, resulting in a total sellout with the Red John reveal. Worse than "Lost" - the writers had no clue how to solve their own clues and didn't have the honesty to admit this.
@@cscoetzee Thats because the writers did not know who Red John was back then. I feel like if they created the story already knowning who they were gonna make Red John, they could've done way more with it
What I liked in particular were cases where he used his wealth to help. One episode where a woman was working in a casino and stealing money, they questioned her, but she was not their killer and she was stealing money to pay for the care of her sick mother. The last minute of the show Patrick donates money he won at the casino to help the woman pay her hospital bills. I remember other cases where he did nice things for other people involved in cases just to help them out. It seemed nice because after they left the story you sort of forgot about them, but it was nice that his character did something to help instead of forgetting them too.
I think the show did a pretty good job of impressing upon the viewers the importance of upholding justice as a personal moral imperative, rather than merely a perfunctory legal duty. In other words, by the end of Red John's reign of terror, it became clear he had corrupted parts of every organized justice/social system in the state and a little outside. There were even corrupt officials who the team put away that didn't work for Red John. CBI, FBI, local police, Homeland security, social workers, news reporters, state attorneys, anti-human trafficking organizations etc--they all had members who were evil, weak, and loathesome. Jane was motivated by personal reasons, but in his willingness to bend legal boundaries and thwart procedural norms, he became a more faithful servant of true justice than most of his peers were capable of when it came to Red John. What's more is Patrick was able to uncover and bond with his upright colleagues' belief in that moral pliability, no matter how straight-laced they typically were: Bosco killed someone evil and Lisbon helped him cover it up, Hightower faked a hostage situation and went on the run when framed rather than fight in court, Abbott shot a drug cartel member in cold blood, and LaRoche cut the tongue out of his mother's rapist and kept it in a Tupperware container. Even Cho, Rigsby, and Van Pelt knew when they needed to supersede the rules to get real justice. It's a bit unusual for a procedural to stick by this principle so overtly, but I respect them for it even in moments I may still disagree. Justice and legality shouldn't ever be opposed to one another, but this is earth, and we are human, and humans are flawed.
Agreed on all points. Just want to point out, as you know I'm sure, this is fiction. In real life people have biases, selfish motives, unchecked personal flaws, blind spots, and just imperfect info like fog of war. Law enforcement taking the law into their own hands is often dangerous even deadly to the people they're supposed to serve
Rigsby killed the guy responsible for his father's death and Jane helped pull it off in a legal way, Cho was always ready to bend or break the rules to help the team
@@Nomadcreations No. Justice is just. Vengeance can be either just or unjust because humans are subjective about everything. So you never know which one you're getting if it is vengeance.
@@joehamlet7576 Neither with justice. What is justice really? Who defines it? Would smth we call just today, be just in 50 years? Moral and ethics change, and so does justice. And in a world where justice is defined by who leads, you can be sure of 1 thing: There's no such thing as just. Only vengeance in disguise.
@@pedropereira1285 God defines it. The problem with humans is we keep wanting to be God and do His job. Morals and ethics do NOT change, because God does not change. Morals come from the word of God and they do not change. People think they know better than God. We don't. We will stay screwed up until we learn that. Which, of course, we never will because we have too much pride and arrogance.
As someone who has studied psychology, Jane definitely showed signs of sociopathy, which I think is completely understandable considering his life's tragic journey. However, he also had an incredible understanding of people, which could also be attributed to his upbringing and would have been an important tool for him to protect and sustain himself in a true hard-knock life. All-in-all, he was an amazing character, played amazingly well with boundless evolution and depth.
This is not a sociopathic thought, Jane would be a sociopath if he killed Red John for no reason, not for murdering his wife and child; that's his own perception of justice, one non-sociopaths have regardless of whether it's the same as the law's justice.
No I dont think hes a sociopath what he did was purely human. The only thing people might mistake for sociopathic tendency is how emotionally detached he is from his logic, but that is a stretch. Most sociopaths dont even possess that.
It was more or less this scene that kept my interest in the series. So many movies and series try to redeem the killer or lightly punish them, jane just flat out says I am going to kill this person with my own hands, and then does it.
To bad he didn't do what he said he would. While strangling RJ and watching the life drain out of him, it was too painless. Beggars can't be choosers, I guess.
@@oz_jones I think it was better that way. Jane here in this scene is mostly trying to hammer home how determined he actually is, just to give Lisbon a heads up, but butchery was Red John's forte, not Jane's. Red John would slither in darkness, paralyze the victim and kill them with punctures--he was like a snake. Jane worked like a mongoose: circle tirelessly, taunt the prey into expending its energy on striking out, and then when the serpent is exhausted, go for the throat. The pain is in the fall of power and fear of death. I loved it.
Patrick can be cold but this? NO. This is his truth and his justice. Why has he been wanting to kill? Now if Jane was all eh who cares about revenge people would go WtF..
Marvicle I’ve met a lady in the social scene where I hang out, she has much of the skill set Patrick Jane has, minus the manipulation. She sees things about people, it comes as picture frames in her mind - or so she explained it to me. But it drains her. She can’t control it or shut it off. Often when we were hanging out, she just wants to have a good time but she can’t, and have to leave because her senses are bombarded.
And I like his hair...... And that face he makes when he is smiling, looks like he is uncomfortable doing that.....like contemplating between smiling or not...,..
@Alexander Leblanc not that I can tell, I'm not a doctor. When we 1st met, she said things about me that no one knew about. Life things I was dealing with. Once, we were at a bar, & a guy came up & was being overly aggressive. She said to me she saw a body hovering over him. She was creeped out & I had to chase him off. The next day, I saw his picture on the news, arrested for murder. She said she doesn't see things for everyone, but it does happen often & she just can't handle it sometimes. It gets too much.
Patrick had always insisted that despite working with the law, if they caught Red John, he would kill him himself. He spelled it out to everyone repeatedly, but I don't know if he ever did so as chillingly as he did here. He knows Lisbon and co would have to arrest him, but as far as he's concerned, if Red John is dead by his hand, justice will have been done. No matter how mellowed out or "better" he was being with the team, he never wavered on that..
"Justice, real justice, is personal. And sometimes it needs to be delivered with your own hands." - Sheriff Hood (Banshee) Most people know him as Homelander, though
Its interesting to note that when he did eventually catch Red John, he shot and then strangled him to death, not as he says here. Probably several reasons for this: (a) it was in a public place (b) Jane is basically squeamish about blood (c) i think he'd come to realise that killing Red John was the ultimate goal and that it was all too grisly to imitate his method of killing.
Justice is just. Vengeance can be either just or unjust because humans are subjective about everything. So you never know which one you're getting if it is vengeance.
@Sam Lim hmm good point. I thought Jane being such a bright dude he would understand. But i forgot he has emotions that blinded him with vengeance like any normal person would.
@Sam Lim the only complaint i have for this show, even though it's one of my most fav tv shows, is that It should have been much darker and heavier, kind of similiar to the show "dexter". Jane being such a smart person he fails laughably to catch red john multiple times. In front of red john we see he cannot think ahead. And the way he narrowed down the list to find red john was hilarious. Red john as a villain was very very weak. I wish the cat and mouse chase between red john and jane was given more thoughts. Otherwise the show was unlike any. It has the feel of both "sherlock" and "lie to me"
@@torababdullah7952 I liked the fact that, in the end, Red John was not some larger than life charismatic cult leader (ie, Brett Stiles). It played out better that he was actually rather small when you took away his support. It also explained how he was always 5 steps ahead of Jane.
The only difference I can see between justice and vengeance is the person carrying it out. If there is a personal motivation, like your wife and daughter were brutally murdered (the fact that they had the daughter murdered like that was one of the most disturbing parts of the show), then it's vengeance. If you kill someone that has brutally murdered people but you have no personal attachment to those people, it's justice. Ergo, there's no difference.
Lisbon's giving her party line...she's responsible for both jane and the law, but as time goes on she sees that she isn't responsible for jane, he also matures too, and that instead of being his keeper she cares about him and more importantly he cares about her and that he's going to whatever the hell he wants to and no one can stop him. she also saw how awful to him and all of them red john was and probably by that time didn't care...the guy was just a bad human. but lisbon still wouldve done her duty had she been the one to catch him.
Jane decided that was right once he had lost people who loved him. In the same way, Lisbon lost someone that loved her to RJ. Really quite poetic, in some way.
She helped Bosco when he killed a criminal so it's something she could've done for Jane even if no one she cared about had died. But then it wasn't just about Boscos death. Even after that, she told him she would stop him. I think what changed her mind the most was seeing Jane being haunted by RJ and how much he and the rest suffered for all those years. And the last blow was the Blake Association. RJ was never going to pay, he wasn't going to stop killing and leave them alone unless he was killed.
He tricked her with mentalism. He told her to use more force when she talks, but it was really so that he could use those gestures and commanding voice to plant a "mental seed" that he is in fact in control.
Great alternative ending in my opinion if Lisbon had arrested Jane after killing Red John. Especially if their relationship were already deeper and more romanticly involved with each other. I'm happier with the way the series ended though !
The difference is justice is inclined towards morality and well being of every living being which logically makes it a reasonable choice on the other hand vengeance is more destructive and based on eye for an eye perspective.
Justice is just. Vengeance can be either just or unjust because humans are subjective about everything. So you never know which one you're getting if it is vengeance.
@@andreblomberg67 doesnt mean he can go above the law. Many people deserve to die in some people's eyes. In other people's eyes they are good people. Who are you to make that judgement? Are you ready to take responsibility for these actions? Not really, are ya.
@@iare19 In other people’s eyes they are good. These other people are crazy, twisted, damaged or evil. Like in these series is shown. In season 2 that crazy, damaged lady who killed her colleagues because Red John told her to. She too thought the the serial killer, rapist is the good person. That he is doing good things. So I think that if you’re not a psychopath or a damaged person Or evil, damaged person you know that someone who is doing the things that serial killers do isn’t a good person and really deserves punishment.
Well he himself said that in the season 2 premiere. when the Red John was given to another team he abruptly quit seeing no more reason to be there. he said he'd stick around to see the end of the case they were on and admitted to Lisbon he has nowhere else to go
"You can't talk to me like that, I have rights." Please explain to me what right you have that says you can't be called "miserable son of a bitch." There's no correlation there.
well i think Patrick doesn't care what happens to him after he kills Red John.... Patrick only cares about catching Red John and killing him so he can get revenge for what Red John did to his family
Vengeance is a form of justice when proportionate, but when disproportionate or otherwise unreasonable, such as when collateral damage is too high, it is unjust. Reimbursement is another form of justice - the two concepts really are quite different, although Jane's vengeance is indeed a form of justice in this case.
Well, it goes to show you that Patrick Jane was indeed serious for he forfilled his desire to end Red John's life. Good for him!! Awesome episode, 'Strawberries and Cream', the finale to season 3!! I think we viewers were all rooting for Jane to follow through with his revenge!! Can't wait for season 4 when we see Patrick Jane in his day in court!
rage might take over. Jane seems to have planned out EXACTLY how brutally he's work this guy over. Obviously Lisbon would stop Jane from killing Red John, even if she had to kill him, which is why I hate the law. There is no justice. Jane is right.
I do enjoy the playfulness of Patrick but sometimes he can be such an asshole. Like the time he bantered with a father whose son was murdered by continuing to name other organs when the father mentioned that his son had the guts and hearts (S2 EP20). Or when that one time Patrick destroyed a code-breaking device for encryption and decryption of sensitive data that was worth millions which upset the person who was working to have to have the device (S2 EP21). I feel like he goes all out to offend every one, sometimes to show his wit and that he's better than every one else and sometimes just for the heck of it.
That code breaking device was destroyed bcoz he thought it could be dangerous if it falls in the wrong hand. He was bad when mentioned other organs but maybe he sensed something was not right with the father whose son just died. He was proven right in the end. He was so sweet the following scene with the little girl teasing her and Lisbon. Sometimes he does outrageous things to provoke people.
It isn't just that. Sometimes he's intentionally cold and insensitive because he wants to provoke a reaction in someone he thinks is guilty, especially if they're prone to emotional manipulation. Though he can overdo it sometimes, and unleash his brutal sense of wit on those undeserving of its impact.
Gram T: you are seeing Jane accurately. the Patrick Jane character, albeit wonderfully talented, is really not a good person, although his actions do often have significant benefits for other people. ultimately, for Jane, those benefits are, probably, incidental. Jane accomplishes what he does as part of his long game to catch Red John, as well as out of a motivation to show other people that he is smarter, etc. Simon Baker does play the character, at times, as somewhat altruistic and/or genuinely likable. this, no doubt, is to make the character a hero for the audience to root for. the writers may have wanted Baker to play Jane that way, too. in reality, however, those things may be somewhat foreign to Jane's nature. Jane is different from many other people. he is not somewhat different or even quite a bit different. he is, as a psychopath, A LOT different, at least in how he views the world and himself. hence, the need for a constant disguise when around others who see such things differently... i can give some support for this assertion about him always wearing a disguise... do you remember the scene where Cho and him go undercover in a different episode involving the team trying to prevent a crime (murdering the mayor/mass shooting)? in that episode, Cho asks Jane why he isn't wearing a disguise, sort of giving Jane a hard time about it. Jane then repeats the word, "disguise" to himself quietly, in a sort of ironic, amused way. anyway, i, personally, don't sympathize too much with people who are not attached to the truth, although i am fascinated by the people who can pull off such deceit. what i like about Jane is his willingness/ability to think for himself (not conventional), the lesson learned from him that if you are clever enough (unfortunately, i often am not) there may be a solution to just about any problem and how he can amusingly (for the audience) put people in "their place". sorry if i ran on here with my opinions...
yeah. but honestly the fact that he more of a 'get even' kind of guy is fine with me. He's a normal dude. We all have an 'eye for an eye' mentality. In some its just buried, like with Lisbon. I'll try and post the opening to the season 2 premiere on here shortly. The part in the department store? Check my profile page.
what's the difference between vengeance and justice? In justice your goal is to give the sense of relief to the affected party/the victim; vengeance on the other hand is the desire to make the perpetrator suffer... basically justice is borne of sympathy for the victim whilst vengeance is borne out of anger to the perpetrator..
