Paul Kingsnorth: What is there left to conserve? 

It is so heart breaking that as the world talks never endingly about 'the environment' they are destroying every last bit of nature they can find including our human nature

As an agnostic/atheist, I found your talk to be the most convincing argument for religion. I have been questioning my beliefs (or lack thereof) for a few years. I had a literal and profound religious experience upon visiting St Mark's Basilica -- against my wishes, dragged there by a friend on a trip to Rome. Really wanted to avoid the place given my convictions against Catholicism. Describing my surprising experience would take hundreds of words, if any words would even do. Despite my understanding of the psychological need to attach ourselves to something higher than ourselves, and having read some of your writings on the topic, Paul, I have put off an actual conversion. I have remained a "spiritual agnostic," but what you said here in this talk shows the importance of taking that next step, choosing to believe before the belief is forced upon oneself. I can now see how this happens, having witnessed "progress" since 2016, times in which first neoliberal political dogma and then corporate science were twisted into belief systems by elites who thought they were beyond religion. Thank you for your beautiful words.

'Religion is man's search for God, Christianity is God's search for man' - Peter Kreeft.

It is partly, or even substantially, due to Unherd that Paul Kingsnorth has emerged as one of the most interesting and important thinkers of our time. This brief but bracing talk is yet another example of why he is so important.

Reminding us of what actually is important. Thank you.

Great speech! I also came late in life to the Orthodox Church. Paul is right that there are things in Orthodoxy that used to be part of the common culture of Christians that have got lost along the way in other Christian sects.

It's been too long since someone shook up my expectations so beautifully. It is a wonderful change to be intellectually challenged rather than having my cortisol levels tweaked.

Amazing talk. One quote that resonated with me was his comparison of the biblical trinity to the “modern trinity” of reason, science and technology. Reason is logos, and logos is Jesus Christ (John 1:1). Materialists have taken to worshipping the creation instead of the creator (Romans 1:25). We’re coming to the end of the road. I hope his message finds good soil.

As someone who went from total hedonism and atheism to a great respect for religion and a conservative inclination, this is precisely one of the big questions that I was pondering.

WOW. A profound talk with deep meaning. Timely. Thank you! Namaste.

Bless you sir for presenting these truths. May the peace of our Lord Jesus Yeshua be upon you always 🙏🙌🏻❤️

"Once you reject God, you are fated to try and replace him." That really hit me. Yes, our anchor is crumbling; our centre-point. I watch myself struggle between sitting with that mystery that is quite clearly beyond me and all living things, and being enthralled with this technologically driven world. But I feel a deep undercurrent of Divine invitation emerging. This is being felt by many. What a fascinating time to be alive.

This is probably one of the best talks I’ve heard on this topic. A very insightful analysis of the current situation. Especially the comment about it being time to choose your religion

This was truly eye opening, but Paul, whose writing I love, thinks that the battle is lost. Read the poem the combat by Edwin Muir. Just because the loudest voices say they have won, doesn’t make it so!

Wonderful wonderful thank you Paul for preaching the Gospel. Jesus Christ is alive (physically) and seated at the right hand of God, and we must choose between Him and the Devil. (I am not being pious, I mean this literally.)

"The great unsettling" - yes, that's exactly what's going on in the West.

Thank you for articulating this Paul Kingsnorth! I've been unable to get my head around this for a decade or more. The realisation of the need for religion is so important, and the lack of conscious religion is key to understanding the problems of our age. Problems that *seem* to be accelerating... Based on the symbols pumped into my brain from the available media.

Yes, at 1:46 this *_is_* what is there left to conserve, and that *_is_* the reason we were sent into the world, to preserve the human spirit in the difficult times to come. And to do that, God has sent a New Message into the world, a message of a thousand teachings. It's called - _The New Message from God_ and it contains the preparation for what we are here to do in the years ahead. God bless!

Like the Prophets in Biblical times - brutal message for brutal times! Paul makes no compromises for the faint-hearted, the snowflakes and the patching-up advocates. The warrior's stance for this battle is, of course, its paradox.

Wow. Amazing talk. I became aware of PK maybe 6 years ago and found him to be an interesting thinker. How wonderful to hear that his curiosity has led him all the way to Orthodox Christianity. I am also a convert - a revert technically - to Christianity - and what's more, Catholic Christianity. So I really get his quip about being unhappy about that initially. But what a great talk. Thank you.

I am a veteran of religious enquiry and philosophical speculation .I loved this . Everything about this man is seeped in humility and understanding . Clearly you have studied much cos very few know of Guenons the "reign of quantity " .That genius and lover of God .Thank you so much . I feel steeled for the ordeals ahead

As someone having come back to Christianity a few years back, I see and agree with a lot of things with what Paul is attempting to describe. The only thing there has been and ever will be, is to repent and trust in our Savior Jesus Christ. May God have mercy on us sinners, and let us pray, and continue building a relationship with our Lord so we can receive his goodness and wisdom, while we are still here, and prepare for our place in eternal Heaven.

Thank you Paul.

This was an incredibly well argued talk!!

Have discovered Paul Kingsnorth recently, love what he has to say. He's making concrete for me the swirl of thoughts and feelings I have about our contemporary western world. The word that has kept coming to my mind as I read of the latest technological achievments and ideologies is hubris - something the gods take a dim view of and are quick to act against.

Brilliant speech

Thank you, Unherd. Paul's insights are worth reflecting on.

Thank you. God Bless you.🙏

Listened to the whole talk and really enjoyed it. Thanks! The issue I am having is the pushing of this transhumanist agenda. As an mechanical engineer I just want to design and built beautiful things with my bare hands. Enjoy the old crafts and teach that to next/future generations.

Bless you Paul, for sharing the gospel truth !

I loved this and will listen to it again. I long for conversations like this with others as the time for trivial conversation has passed.

Any origin story of the West which doesn't even mention the Greeks sounds quite silly.

Seems I'll be a dissident in the comments. I LOVE Paul Kingsnorth - his wisdom and am grateful for him. But being an atheist I can attest that one doesn't need religion to revel in nature or to feel a rolling grief at what humanity is doing blindly to itself. I like the spirit of what he's saying; we've lost out way in the most profound sense. I'm glad religion is a good filter to see all this and interpret it for some. But I think the more central core of our disease, is a loss of connection to nature and reality. Some conflate that loss with a loss of religion. But thankfully, one can see all the same phenomena he alludes to by just being a spiritual person. Being an atheist doesn't preclude being kind, being grateful, crediting grace for all that we experience, etc. In other words, there are may ways of viewing the current breakdown of civilization that we're currently facing without a religious filter. Peace

We must choose, or the choice will be made for us..very sound . Thank you and blessings from Sydney Australia .

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

Love this and love Paul Kingsnorth

Please have Jonathan Pageau on this channel.

Extremely impressive talk, I'd love to meet Mr. Kingsnorth.

This was one of the best talks I have heard in a very long time. His clarion thoughts make so much sense in this day of chaotic thoughts. There is sanity & has a name - God. God is many “I am’s” & I’m sure I Am sanity is true.

Wow. Powerful. And frightening.

Thank you for having Paul here again! ❤ Charles Eisenstein and many other great thinker/writer are a treat.

I needed to hear this.

Powerful talk on what is indeed happening, where things are headed, and the powerful consequences of what people think is true and reality, also inescapable religious faith and creeds.

You have become clearer, more handsome and well , glory to God

Fascinating talk. Wasn't what I expected, but well worth listening to!

Thank you Paul for your talk 🙏

Yoram Hazony’s The Virtue Of Nationalism, is an extremely important contribution to this question of conservatism. Dichotomies have their ‘if you’re not with us, you’re against us’ dangers and it is with that in mind that I quoted Hazony: “I do not suppose that the case for nationalism is unequivocal. Considerations can be mustered in favor of each of these theories. But what cannot be done without obfuscation is to avoid choosing between the two positions: Either you support, in principle, the ideal of an international government or regime that imposes its will on subject nations when its officials regard this as necessary; or you believe that nations should be free to set their own course in the absence of such an international government or regime.” If that’s true we would do well to familiarise ourselves with his important thesis; Hazony brilliantly lays out the principles of the political order of independent national states.

This us the second I have heard you speak. Thank You for Shareing. We need people like you to share. Praying for your continueing Growth in the LORD!

Hogwash

Brilliant but frightening.

The first sane talk I’ve heard in a long time.

Love this talk - so many ideas and so much sense !!??

Very good summary of the modern dilemma. I've pondered at times if we might get a good old fashion revival in the West.

That was powerful. I could listen to Paul Kingsnorth all day..

I used to say.. ten years ago..the children born today will not live to die remaining to be human as they were born to be, considering where things are heading.. and now it appears that can be said for our own prior generations :( Just horrific what these technocrats espouse in the world now. God help us all

Thank you Paul - you reframed the word 'religion' for me which I've avoided for decades. Realise I've always been 'religious' in the sense of the sacredness of life. Have shared!

Timely and succinct. Great speech.

Thank you!

Thank you. I get a sense there is many people who think the same but are disjointed and disconnected from what we considered from our youth - albeit beginning to erode even then - as being more clearly evident continuous and true. That certainty now feels dead and stolen from us as sure as sure can be. You see I too have come to realise everything is ethereal everything is spirit. I see now what we perceive as solidity is in essence of vibration a cosmic tune which differs only in frequency and intensity to give us - one of many consciousness on the earth - a pretence of understanding. I've like everyone here were indoctrinated to believe the mechanical scientific viewpoint that - as you said - the appreciation of the spirit/essential/ external being was confined to a place called a church for an hour on Sunday and that was it. So here we are, what are we facing? Well one, and the one I tend to now believe is we are reaching not only a technological singularity but also the hiatus of habitual hubris conceit genuine ignorance and stupidity which was 400 years in the making. Yes it seems we are now faced with a choice do we humbly accept we are just another facet in the unending mind of God or do we become transhuman and seek to imitate bast#rdise and ultimately destroy not only nature but God.

Thank you.

Loved the comments about the wonderful pace of Ireland. Strange that people didn't chuckle with him.

Pray, for miracles at this point.

It is, indeed, an excellent diagnosis. My problem is what do we mean by the West. And the West, whatever this designates, was also founded by the Greco-Roman antiquity, which is not yet a part of Abrahamic foundational story. This is what bothers me. Is the only answer - to pray?

Our war is already won; Christ is risen ☦️🙏🏼☦️ and only the battles remain!

Paul is so thought-provoking. I could listen to him all day. The mis-spelling of the last word of the subtitles adds weight to his argument.

I figured this out as a teenager. Became a practicing Buddhist/Taoist. I'm glad to see that many of my hardcore "ATHEIST" friends have come around to appreciate what Paul describes. Honestly, I'm still surprised many people have not realized this. Not yet.

Well, it's quite the spectacle to witness folk trying to recreate nature, humanity, and even divinity in their own image, don't you think? But it's nothing new. We've had a couple of recent examples like Nazism and Communism. But here's what tickles me pink: Christianity held its ground and ultimately triumphed over the lot! How amazing, to ponder how faith can weather the ages and come out on top? "For our God hath blessed creation, Calling it good. I know What spirit with whom you blindly band Hath blessed destruction with his hand; Yet by God's death the stars shall stand And the small apples grow." G.K. Chesterton, 'The Ballad of the White Horse'

I lived for some years in a third world African Muslim community that had no modern technology. I managed to stay healthy for the three years I lived there but when I came home and had various tests done it turned out that I had cystic amoebic dysentery that if left untreated could have killed me. I was very grateful for the antibiotics that cleared it up quickly and painlessly. God bless modern medicine! My toilet was a deep hole in the ground at the end of the garden which worked fine and I would like to see flush toilets replaced with composting ones everywhere. Toilet paper was not needed as we washed with water from a jug. Even here in the UK I still do this because it is much cleaner and toilet paper is a major pollutant. There was no running water so we had to fetch the water daily from the stream and fill large unfired clay urns which kept it wonderfully cool despite the extreme heat. Needless to say this job - like all the heavy work - was done by the women. I became a vegetarian because the stench of the meat market - where unrefrigerated sides of beef were hung in the blazing sun black with flies - made me heave. We cooked on charcoal burners. and lit our mud brick houses with kerosene lamps. I slept out under the stars on a bed made from thick branches and woven with string and a mattress stuffed with raw cotton. It was very comfortable and I really miss sleeping out under the stars. The boiling daytime heat was exhausting and I was always drenched in sweat. The winters were a blessed if short relief. I was generally happy because the people were incredibly kind and welcoming and basically looked after me as I was at first as helpless as a baby. But I was very happy to go home to the UK for three months every summer and have a taste of life under the Machine with all its wonderful comforts. I always brought a suitcase back full of stuff people had asked me for that was not available to them. I especially remember thermal underwear and Head and Shoulders shampoo being requested. And English textbooks. The people seemed happy with their lot until I came to know their world better. The women had no human rights. They were subjected to full pharaonic FGM at a young age performed by a woman with a razor blade and some antiseptic. Some of them died but still the practice continued because the men insisted. Girls were given at a very young age in marriage to much older men - basically sold off to the highest bidder. The FGM made childbirth incredibly dangerous and the death rate was high. They would beg me to bring them back 'the magic pill that stops you from having babies'. Everybody prayed five times a day and went to the mosque on Friday. They were a deeply religious community. This did not prevent the married men from making passes at the English women. Then there was a coup and I had to leave as non-Muslims were no longer welcome. This experience made me very very grateful to have been born in the modern industrialised secular west. The women would sometimes joke that they wished they could change places with me - but they were only half joking. From the outside the place I lived looked like Eden. Rural, unspoilt, close knit and deeply religious. But I knew my stay was temporary and I could return to the modern world whenever I chose. The local women were stuck there living what was basically an Old Testament life. Nowadays I am very glad I live in the godless lands and understand why so many from the god-fearing world want to come here. I have Muslim friends who have settled here and are very happy to live among the unbelievers in the lands of the Snake and the Machine. For all its faults the modern world is undeniably a better place to be - especially if you are a woman.

The Reign of Quantity - wow that really resonated with me. I will give it a read.

Interesting talk! One small thing: When God created human persons on the sixth day, it is correct that it is not stated that God saw that it was good. It is stated that God saw that it was very good: Genesis 1:31 "And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good. And the evening and morning were the sixth day."

Excellent!

Interesting, deep. Thank you.

After a day pondering this topic, this is exactly what I needed to hear tonight.

WOW ! SO TRUE....EVERY BIT OF IT....THANK YOU FOR THIS GIFT OF TRUTH ! One way or another we will come back to this, because it is the TRUTH.....which of course cannot die.....because TRUTH is eternal! All we have done is try to bury it....very deeply, but earthquakes, volcanos, disasters have a way of bringing buried truth out into the light.....may we unbury the TRUTH soon...to halt our self destruction !

Excellent presentation, is it the same thoughts I've been mulling over for several years now.

I choose Pastafarianism

Try conserving the welfare state, traditional radical politics and critique of power.

I have a feeling this speech is actually mostly motivated by AI, but that the topic is sort of sandwiched in the middle of it. I don't blame him. For the topic or the sandiwching. I'm a fairly left-leaning software engineer that's worked in San Francisco and even so, I've kind of taken to praying a bit, tbh.

The Machine of Huxley, Wells,

Could we have a second part of this talk? Some of these ideas I have been saying to myself for years. And the world has changed enourmously over the last 3 years. It does seem very surreal and strange.

Superb!

Amen Paul!

Hope to meet Freddy because he asks the right questions that is why I watch all from San Francisco last time in London was honeymoon 1978. I 💕 England my ancestors arrived from Normandy with William still in Kent as my dad located in 1943.

"sort of came over from Ireland" Sort of?

"God mit uns" "In God we trust" Now "In power we trust",what is next?who am I?

Everything is religious - or spiritual. So true. How much has the evil one done in my own life, through society, environmental changes, living my own separate life, trying to be my own God? ---- community living is one way needed to break out of this madness. (only in my opinion...) Let's get back to the garden...

Everything in Canada, has been flipped on its head: family, demographics, nationality, gender, currency value, truth, education, etc.

I thought we were conserving the water, trees, animals, etc. Maybe what is left of the Garden.

When and what was the golden age of Christendom that is worthy of conservation? If you’re orthodox or catholic, 1517 marks a shift in Christendom away from tradition and the transcendent order towards a more individualized and rational interpretation of the Bible. Did it only exist during the spread of the early church, or was it also present during the Roman Empire? I’m struggling to see what was worth conserving at a societal scale during any of these times - including our own. During your preferred period of Christendom, what aspects do you consider as good/worthy of conserving? Who were these aspects good for? Note that the further back you go in modern history in search of this mythical Christendom (and any other tradition), the more coercion/force was used to ensure traditional/theocratic social values. I feel that people are drawn to the ideology of progress / human transcendence because there has never been a mythical Christendom or any other traditional ideal past (or any contemporary society). The abject failures of history motivate continuous change and so we’re doomed to keep building on top of broken foundations. I agree that we should be praying but not for some mythical past. And I’m doubtful that we should be praying for the dominion of any one religious ideology. I don’t think that the pockets of human community that have been in transcendent communion with the divine have been isolated to any one religion/ideology.

Well, in fact, the West begins in ancient Greece, a beautifully pagan Greece, and that civilisatiion and others steeped in wisdom around the Mediterranean gained and spread influence, until much later the development of a sect of followers of a prophet managed to gain legitimacy and adoption adoption by Rome (despite its tendency for riots and destruction in the name of their sect and prophet), which then worked hand in hand with that Church to spread its empire. The Church continued in the business of working with kings, emperors and empires until fairly recently. While I expect that humans along with all other animals lived together in what we would certainly call a garden - what we would now most likely call a "wilderness" (a rather recent word, that) in most cases, and in culturally advanced world-sensitive ways, many of them, until the church and Empire came along. There is a sacred living world, and we know it through being, and across cultures, since long before the Church came along. As the people of the coast here put it, everything is connected everything else (not in some mushy kind of way, but through reciprocity of being), and in that relational reciprocity we have obligations, and also law, or protocol for right action in relation to all that is. Again, long before the Church came along and really messed things up. The West and the Church it created ripped humans out the garden wherever they showed up.

Is there a question and answer portion of this talk?

Yes, all we can do is pray, live our Christian belief and trust in God, he is in control.

brilliant

What is there left to conserve? What thou lovest well remains, the rest is dross What thou lov’st well shall not be reft from thee What thou lov’st well is thy true heritage

Excellent.

Wow!

Back in the 60s & early 70s if you were invested in protecting nature you were labelled a 'conservationist'. The label 'environmentalist' came in the late 70s/early 80s. That's possibly when the rot set in. Conservation is a word rarely used now. These uses of language are not an accident.

Paul's recounting of the Genesis story reminded me how much vulgarity there is in scripture-how much commonness. Its emphasis on villains (the serpent, Satan, women) means it's always got its on eye on someone to blame. That's a direct appeal to the worst in us, our ever-ready resentment and vindictiveness. It's no surprise this kind of religion would have been popular before people learned to be embarrassed by their pettiness.

7:49 I imagine the word “hale” also comes from that root.

We have forgotten the social messages that are the root of Christianity .. we have forgotten what set us apart from other civilisations .. we need to go back and relearn what the core central tenants of western civilisation are again .. and then decide what to do with re-establishing what is worth conserving ..