"AMD's well coordinated Neanderthal marketing army has managed to sneak into every Intel users home and overclock their cpu's to unprecedented levels and cause them to fail. Although it's a testament to Intel's ingenious engineering to be able to be tinkered with by pre-history Neanderthals, another win for Intel." -Userbenchmark
These CPUs are running on W680 server boards, which enforce stock limits. Not only that, the DDR5 is run on a very conservative speed, around 3200-4400Mhz.
@@kionera96this means that the cpu are not developed properly. The team who made this generation needs to be fired and they need to redo their r&d department.
I didn't buy an i9 processor to downclock it for stability and perform like a cheaper processor. Depending on how Intel handles this I am finished with them. The only way I would consider buying Intel again is if they give me a free 15th gen CPU and a motherboard to use it on.
@abdulhkeem.alhadhrami I build over thousands hackintoshes since 2008 I've done about 10 13gen have not had any issues.... don't overclock them ..my clients use is mac osx n windows dual boot music video n graphics production running 24/7
I have a family member also working with developing in pretty new stuff at Intel and... yeah no wonder this go downhill from what I heard. Management is complete bonkers and "strangulate" the engineers.
@@DerIchBinDa Insisting on using their own process instead of TSMC over several years has piled up and caused this massive issue. It was a gamble and if it worked out it would be great for them as they could beat TSMC with their process, but they failed to do it. It went on for too long. They couldn't shrink the process in time. This also caused them to have internal issues. Their current aims for their new fab and their process are too late to stay relevant. And now with AI, they're in a really hard position. Like they now started to use TSMC, if they started doing this before it was too late none of this would have happened. Currently their only advantage might be the support from the US gov. but I'm not sure that this is going to be enough.
@@bad_metaphor probably bit early... when classaction lawsuit is announced then i will check intels stock prices bit closer =). but yea. I manage to buy AMD stocks when it was around 3 dollars 😀 not the lowest price, but still pretty good
The worst thing about that chart is how the distribution solidly correlates with the "strength" of the CPUs. Meaning that this is not just an issue of high end CPUs, but those deteriorate just faster than weaker ones. But that also means that we will likely also see a rise of failures in lower end CPUs from Intel in the coming months and years. They just take longer to get the defective CPUs to their breaking points.
13700K user here that had a gradual instability occur over time. Months okay, then instability. Made a BIOS adjustment. Stability. Weeks go by then instability again. Adjust again. Stability...and so on a few times. Couple of months. Then I talked to Intel and got a new CPU from Intel a week after initial report to them. I never overclocked. I did undervolt (-0.04v). I did run AVX offset at 0, which is not default. AC LL was 0.4 mOhm, DC LL was 0.9 mOhm. Both Gigabyte defaults. Adjustments to get stability were adding some extra volts (e.g. an extra +0.02v from current) and lowering the max turbo clock which also lowers the required volts to be stable.
Do you have a current limit set within intel recommendations? I guess initially no because you can't undervolt with the current limit on or the overcurrent protection goes haywire.
@@ivananetdoma8382 No the current limit was Gigabyte default, which I believe was unlimited. That said the CPU max power was, short term 235w, 200w long term (after 50 seconds). Both lower than Intel default spec. This of course limits current draw. The CPU certainly cannot draw even 307A. P = V*I. Lower P means lower I. Nothing I had but stress tests and x264 (via ffmpeg) could push all cores hard. Games really only push a couple of cores hard. If power in any given core is too much for it to handle then degradation can still occur in that core. Overall all core power limits do not stop/prevent that. All that said, with the new/replaced CPU, I do have 300A set in the BIOS now. My AVX offset is default. I have lowered the max turbo from 5.3 to 5.1 to be safe(er)(?) for now until we get more info on this whole 13/14th gen thing. The default AVX offset certainly lowers current draw in the AVX ALUs when the heavy duty AVX instructions are filling the pipeline (specifically SIMD packed multiplies are harsh on power).
My 13700k has been unstable since I built my gaming rig. Would randomly crash on some games (with mostly out of the box settings on my motherboard, had only changed the current to the recommended for a water cooler). I have done some adjustments and updated bios to use Intel baseline. Stability has gone up significantly, where games are no longer crashing, but I still got a BSOD last week. So only time will tell how long it will continue to be stable for gaming.
Man, Intel is gonna have a rough time selling their new platform to consumers if they don't manage to sort this out. How are consumers going to trust them if they shift responsibility to their board partners and force customers to run their CPUs below the advertised specs instead of replacing them?
Au contraire. Usually people don't upgrade every generation. Now Intel has masses of potential arrow lake cpu and lga 1851 motherboard buyers because their current raptor lake cpu doesn't work.
@@blegi1245yeah right. Zen5 is going to be selling out because we trust amd and their platform longevity. FK Intel.. this is what they get for the decade of same same. The reign of amd is upon us.. may they make buttloads of money hiking prices with no competition. They should use the revenue of zen to beef up RDNA 5 and 6.
4:19 some CN tech gurus explained how cpu instability issues can lead to a gpu driver hang. Keep in mind I'm just parroting what they said and thus should be taken with a grain of salt: basically, newer games typically store textures in compressed files, and those files need to be decompressed by the cpu first before the GPU can read them properly. Intel cpus (it's unknown if amd also does this), if they encounter a failure during this decompression process, will just yolo it and send the corrupted, half decompressed file to the GPU anyway. the GPU, not knowning any better, will store that file into its vram. Then, when the gpu later tries to read that file from the vram, it instead gets junk data it doesn't know what to do with, and thus a gpu driver hang is triggered to prevent things from completely getting out of control.
This is how many games work, you are correct. Works the same on Intel or AMD or whatever but with the Intel CPUs they see more and more crashes with time and even on servers which are run conservativly because they run 24/7 and stability is top priority.
All Intel 13th and 14th gen CPUs are basically a ticking timebomb that will go off sooner or later, that's what we have learned in the last few months.
@@kkrolik2106 The problem is that there are 2 distinct possibilities. Best case, the issue solely exists because of the voltages required for the max clocks of the i9Ks. Worst case the entirely line is fundamentally flawed, and the top end chips just fail faster due to how hard they're pushed. Reports of 13th Gen really seemed to be happening around the same time as 14th Gen in spite of being in use twice as long. A 14900k is just a 13900k pushed even harder, and there are some cases of 14700Ks. It's not unreasonable to consider it probable that other CPUs in the stack could be effected later in life. Like day 2 after that 3yr warranty expires.
@@kkrolik2106 They are, they just degrade slower. Watch Wendels video and what the game company said in the statement, they explicity say 13700k and 14700k are also affected just slower.
@@blkspade23 As the servers have this problem as well which are run conservativly compared to the desktop variants, it looks like a fundamental flaw and the higher temp/current just accelerates the degradation.
These Intel CPU issues have been a nightmare for Intel employees. My friends dad is a higher up responsible for the 14700k and 14900k issues, and it’s been stressful on my end watching him literally lose sleep and pull out hair over this. 6 months ago he was confident it was a mobo issue, but over the past few months it’s been slowly morphing into “the hardware is just fucked” which I’ve never heard him say
Sounds like physical sillicon degradation they couldn't catch in exaggerated lifetime testing... this is going to be a major issue, because all RMA replacements will also suffer from this issue until they entirely re-run the CPUs with an improved process. At that point they may as well buy a new PC for the end users... or just feed them RMA chips. Nasty issue.
@@N4CR it is. I’ve talked to much more experience engineers, and they are all universally saying it’s a design issue to do with overvolting parts of the chip, causing electron migration. I suspect it has something to do with Intel 7 Ultra, because only chips made on that node have degradation issues. 12th gen doesn’t, and that’s 10nm ESF, or “Intel 7” base…
@@N4CR these guys seeing the high failure rate are running the 14900 on server motherboards, which has them downclocked significantly. if they're still degrading at lower clocks and heat from a server, then this is a design flaw, not a natural degradation issue. I'm not saying it's not degradation, I'm saying it's not natural degradation. meaning a flaw in design is aiding the degradation.
He should know better. Intel pushed their silicon to the breaking point to win benchmarks. This is the result. It's possible this could be due to a flaw in their node process or manufacturing but it looks more like degradation since it primarily affects the top end chips that are pushed the hardest and takes some time to reveal itself. We're talking about 250+ watts on a CPU, 10 years ago that would be unheard of.
@6:20 it's the clock speeds, lowering them could resolve the issue, I wrote a comment earlier mentioning that I have a14700kf and only experienced these issues when tinkering with Intel Extreme Utility to undervolt and overclock slightly. I keep BIOS settings to level 3 moderate power usage and have not experienced issues since.
@@EudaderurScheissIntel actually just has a better build process that makes them perform better nanometer per nanometer. The problem is theyre behind TSMC and Samsung in node shrinkage by a significant margin where it can only make up so much difference. You could watch tons of vids about it. AMD doesnt make their own fabs so they get no credit here, Intel could just as easily put in an order at TSMC which would also limit AMD’s supply and cause an even bigger reliance on on TSMC and Taiwan which is a huge negative for the industry as a whole even though YOU benefit when you get your hands on one of those individual chips and have the money to buy that raised cost for 5nm chips. This doesnt take away from the fact that Intel has fucked themselves royally with this lack of quality control. Its a huge problem, one i dont think will be on any other generation however. This is only a 13th/14th gen issue and they are literally the same architecture and a refreshed line up of the other. Realistically they owe the consumers a recall, a public apology, and a change in policy and some leadership. This is Dreamcast/OG XBOX levels of fail rate apparently and there is no excuse for it
@@EudaderurScheiss But what about 12th gen that's unaffected apparently right they're on the same socket size I believe. And on a side note my 12th gen 12700 runs cooler than my 5800 ex3D underclocked so both sides have their strengths and weaknesse but it is unfortunate with recent Intel CPUs
My FX8320 (recently retired), served me faithfully since 2012. No degradation after so many years of overclocking :D . Intel's going the way of Boeing.
we have 2 13600K builds here and one of them has been on 24/7 since Oct 2022, so far no issues to report but this whole situation is terrible, Intel needs to make things right soon or risk losing a lot of loyal customers, I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable buying Intel's next CPUs if they don't handle the current 13/14th gen problem properly.
I feel like I dodged a bullet getting the 13600k a year ago. Doesn't appear on any of these crash statistics, never crashed yet and it's running a modest OC.
I've been an Intel loyalist since the e8400 with my last Intel cpu being an i7 12700. I then went AMD for two other builds (7800x3d, & 7700x). Extra glad I did now!
@@os10v311 Most likely many gamers/developers will now think twice before buying an intel 13th/14th gen CPU not to mention many people wanting refunds and replacements for their damaged cpu. It has severely impacted their reputation and we may not see impact to their profits in the short term but disastrous consequences for sure in the longer term.
As a 12th gen i7 user I had considered swapping to a 14th gen i7, next time I saw a sale that hit a certain price point. Given what's come to light these last couple of weeks I think I'll stay put on that.
updating cpu that often is usually waste of money anway. Isnt there like 2 years between those cpu:s. 3-4 is probably where you are starting to feel the difference, after 5 you usually take pretty big hit and after 7 cpu is painfully slow. GPU is the one that you should consider updating every 2 or 3 gens.
@@oappi4686 Unlike most Intel sockets of the past, there is actually a large performance improvement between generations. Offering a large enough improvement makes an upgrade worthwhile. Even more so when you wait until that upgrade is on sale. This what people fail to understand about AMD's socket longevity. Zen 1 to Zen 2 was a huge jump that also doubled core density. Even if you didn't need it at launch it was going to end up way cheaper later. Then the massive IPC bump happened with Zen 3, and then X3D. You get to buy in at the level of performance that's good enough for you, and get the option of a huge relative increase at a discount further down the line. Even if it's not the best on the market, it's way better than where you started at minimum additional cost.
bro ur i7 still doesn t bottleneck any gpu above 1440P; it s hell of a strong cpu, if u ever get an i7 or even high end i5s, there s no point to upgrade 5-6 years, minimum
I thought about updating mine as well but I kept waiting since I figured with the way the computer news has been may as well wait till all the issues present themselves.
Bought and built my 13900k rig in December '22. I got it for productivity and some light gaming. Never overclocked and it worked great until January 2024, and it went bad fast. My problems weren't just limited to gaming. I literally couldn't open notepad let alone Excel without getting a blue screen then recovery would fail. Windows reinstall from USB would fail. The blue screens were endless. Ended up buying a new motherboard, RAM and m.2 thinking it would fix it. Nope. While it got a little better and i was able to install Windows and utilize my PC a short time the blue screens continued. Under volting made it more stable. It wasn't until MSI released their new BIOS that i was able to get it mostly stable but my performance sucks and while i can still use it for some job related tasks, it still random crashes and or blue screens with random memory, kernel or IO errors when i try to open a game. Even recently until i re-reinstalled Windows, my USB ports weren't being found by Windows properly any longer and my previously activated version of Windows 11 home would lose activation and could not even be reactivated by Microsoft level 2 support. My 13900k has caused a whole host of problems and i fear it is only a matter of time before it is dead. I will be migrating over to AMD as soon as feasible.
Listen, everyone making things will have a major problem at some point or other. It happens. But when one deliberately tries to absolve themselves from responsibility and then, when that fails goes ‘radio silence’ … then no matter what the next product is, how good it is or isn’t, then people by and large are going to stay away. Intel have compounded a really bad situation by not standing by their customers and attempting to gaslight the industry through obfuscation. That’s a hard pass for any sane buyer from individuals up through the entire industry to the largest industrial contracts.
This scares the hell out of me because I have a 13700k (no OC) and I am seeing a lot of the issues that the 13900k is having. Unstable, crashing, studdering, and random freezing. I hate that the spinning mouse icon is always a spinning wheel and NOT a mouse pointer. Even on a "lite" Windows 11 install with just Video Driver (AMD - 6750XT) the system is still running something in the back ground sucking up CPU cycles. I have a DeepCool (pre-ban) 360 AIO with excellent ambient room temp control. Nothing is over heating. The CPU is just buggered.
You need to change settings in the motherboard to limit wattage and turn on protections that are off by default. My 13700k was also unstable and crashing constantly in games (I was crashing like 2-3 times daily in Predecessor and it was driving me crazy), until I changed these settings. Look up the Intel recommended motherboard settings for i9 CPUs. Also check if there's a bios update for your motherboard addressing the instability.
I play game and put RU-vid on. And it sometimes caused problems. But no RU-vid and playing game was ok. So upgraded to 32 gb ram. And now so far my 13700k. Is good. Amd used to have more problems, back in the days.
Jesus Christ, how the hell intel allowed this mess to happen? They should know the limits and all the parameters of their silicon inside out, before selling it. Now it seems like they never even bothered to stress test and longevity test their chips.
Allegedly (leaked by MLID), Raptor Lake was done from design to manufacture in 11 months (Allegedly people who did it bragged about it in cafeteria). I do remember we knew earlier about Arrow Lake than Raptor Lake. But for now this is not confirmed. I hope we will get more information or confirmation.
They were hoping these cpu would last at least the 3 years the warranty covers and then fail. Meanwhile, I have first gen intel i7 cpus that have survived many years of heavy load and overclocking and can run fine even if obsolete. They have fallen a long ways.
@@steaksoldier Some intel CPUs are fine, ideal depending on what you do (video editing for example). The problem is with Intel trying to stay competitive by pushing the chips too hard. The i5's should be fine, current i7 and i9... not so much.
Depends on the CPU, no? I am glad I picked an 8700k instead of a 2700x, since it's faster at the same price and the longevity of AM4 didn't matter. Buying AM4 now is a waste, with Ryzen 9000 around the corner. Also thank god I had Sandy Birdge E, instead of the dumpster fire that was AMDs FX lineup back in 2012...
Crazy intel news... I tend to stick to my platform for 10 years or more these days. My AM4-platform is already 5 years old, and I haven't even upgraded to an X3D processor yet. And I am still using my previous Core i7 4770K somewhat comfortably at my mother's house whenever I go visit. I am a game developer and I still have some pretty daunting tasks for it. But it performs surprisingly well, it's really only a during release-packaging where I have to wait a bit longer for the export process. But that's honestly nothing I do everyday. In games, I still think it offers decent performance. Perhaps not high refreshrate in AAA-games. But around 60fps most of the time. I haven't even considered that CPUs/motherboards could wear out over time or cause issues.
The fact that all 13th gen and 14th gen are fated to fail at any point of time is scary. I9 are facing issues quickly is because they run hot and consume lot of power. But that doesnt mean other cpu like 13600k would not fail soon. I already saw some reports about 13700k and 14700k failing. I would suggest downgrading to 12th gen or switching to AMD. Lga 1700 has not been a good platform.
Not necessarily, if it's degradation from being pushed too hard than the lower end chips should be safe. They'll only be affected if Intel has a bigger problem with their node and manufacturing. Very few 13700 or 14700k are affected right now which points to simple degradation.
@@Son37Lumiere im sure CPUs aint meant to degrade that quickly My i5 3570 rig is been there for 5 years with no performance problems. Heck, i bought it used at 2019 and had not applied a new thermal paste for 2 years while using the stock cooler and pairing it with the rx570 giving many cpu bottlenecks in games If its 5 years, it seems understandable. But its not 4 years even
@@3dcomrade Yes, degradation from electron migration can happen very fast if the chips are pushed too hard. But the low end CPUs are typically not pushed, with conservative voltages and clocks which would prevent degradation under normal circumstances unless Intel has an even bigger problem with their manufacturing process.
Not just fated, its certain these will fail, 100% chance. You have to downclock the CPU immediately upon getting it not something you can just put off, was listening to a guy speak on the issue and that it was literally just a matter of about 2 months since you get it. Sooner if you overclock the CPU and guess what uh some of the "gamer" boards are certainly going to be volt unlocked out the gate just like the AMD counterparts were a few months back. This whole generation of CPU's and motherboards been a sh%t show.
Yup, Super Flower and SeaSonic are two OEM suppliers that also make their own PSUs, which are at the top of their game. No reason to buy anything else these days.
@@deuswulf6193 I have the Leadex III 850w in one of my AM4 builds, and a Supernova 850w in another. I don't remember which one though. Both are great, 8c/16t CPU's, high end GPUs, and plenty of drives. No issues.
You got class Daniel, love your work and info. Pls don't give up on your day job, don't depend on utube. Stay level headed. I care about you and your family. 2 salaries are great, especially a job like your day job. Don't lose your job brother, stay safe. Godspeed and God Bless.
@@haewymetalthe way they define failure rate is different. To them one crash a week or even. Month is completely unacceptable. If you only game even 8 hours a day you will see crashed 1/4th of the time. So yeah I could see them getting a blue screen or black screen once a month. Then once a week as the issue gets worse.
so here is a big question how come these issues weren't a thing until 14th gen came out? why wasn't this brought to attention during the 13th gen release as well. just wondering are these all happening on z790 boards??
Looking at thermals, power efficiency, and performance, I'm not sure why people are still buying Intel CPUs on the high end. AMD is currently making the better product. They have been for a few generations now.
I mean it's been half a year since all of this Intel stuff started and it is getting worse by the looks of it. It starts to look more and more like a degradation issue / something wrong at hardware level that cannot be fixed with bios update. Intel is looking at a massive issue and the longer they go without any announcement the worse it's gonna get for them. The silence kind makes it look like they know the reason they just don't want to say they screwed up...
13900KS owner here, been using mine for over a year now, it's still going pretty strong. I ran it -80mV on Vcore from day 1 with clocks averaging around 5.7-5.8 on P and 4.5 on E cores. The chip was delidded about a month in and runs direct die water cooling. The memory controller seems to be the main weak point as I can't get stable ddr4 3600 at a command rate of 1 with the memory controller at 1800Mhz, max somewhat stable was 3400 and controller at 1700. Don't know if anyone will find this useful, but hopefully it'll serve as somewhat of a reference for expected values to other people running these family of chips.
My 13900k has been having issues from the get go but i always dismissed them as typical bugs that I always get with my pc since 8600k.. But i can say for sure now that I have all the issues that are pointed out to me now. I really hope they can rectify this because i will be seeking a replacement at the very least. And RU-vid is covering for Intel big time, because I can barely find any videos about this except maybe 6. I hope this develops further and forces Intel into admitting it!
i resolved this intel issue by adding +0.020V offset to one of my clients 14900k, which was also crashing before setting the offset. With the offset there was no crashes anymore. If you as a owner of a 13900K/14900K CPU have lost in silicon lottery, you most likely will have crashes, if your board gives not enough voltage to the CPU. I have an 13900K myself in my daily driver and really have no problems at all. This nvidia.dll issue I also had when I overclocked my 13900K to 6Ghz. Raising the voltage made it stable, but too hot.
Sure dude. We got a whole bunch of engineers looking at it and you fixed the issue by increasing the voltage. If things where only that simple. Give advice people to raise they're voltage if it still unclear what the exact issue is sound mighty stupid.
I think product quality and customer service is at an all-time low. I'm on my 4th AM5 motherboard so far and I have had one RMA'd SIX TIMES IN ONE YEAR! And it's being "FIXED" again right now. Who wants to bet it gets sent back a brick for the 7th time?
not gonna lie, but if they're willingly sending you THAT MANY new motherboards instead of assuming user error, they probably know it's a pile of garbage. maybe take the hint and buy a new board?
@@Matt-oq4jq Thats just it. They sent me a "replacement" which was just another trash board they tried to pass off. Then they sent me this one which was also broken. I think they just do nothing and send it back hoping I just give up but I paid over $500 for this premium POS. so NO! I still have 2 other functioning MB;s so its not "user error".
@@KillerKowalski_ 🤣🤣🤣OBVIOUSLY!.... For now.... 🤣🤣🤣 I'm kidding obviously, although for gaming there isn't much between our CPU'S but in Cinebench those extra 8 E-Cores take the piss 🤣🤣 I do hope they fix it all by the time I need more cores, because when 16 isn't enough to do gaming and some streaming/recording... I'm going to need them cores 🤡🤣 Plus I did get it like a year+ ago for £200 lol was a cheap upgrade! 🤣🤣 from a 10700f so was a good 1 too, I'm not complaining. I got lucky.
Disappointing as I've built a 14700k system this year. I have limited the Watts in the bios mind so it never gets too hot on load and only loses a touch of performance. At stock bios it was trying to thermal heat the house. If it's as bad as it appears, this could wipe the company.
@@Krenisphia not everyone upgrades but you can give yourself an option to upgrade. Where is the 14th gen even good at? It performs worse, can’t be upgraded and consumes more power. Makes ZERO sense to buy it.
What settings are these game devs using? Motherboard defaults that push too much voltage through the VID rail that controls ring, E and P cores until it degrades? Or Intel factory power limits?
12th gen intel chips aren't crashing, they're just outright dying. I have a 12700F that didn't have a contact frame on it, and within 1.5 years it was warped enough to lose PCIe lanes to the CPU before eventually giving up entirely. As we go forward in time, this will become an even larger issue, and there will come a point in the VERY near future where every 12th-14th gen chip will be assumed dead unless proven otherwise. This was on a locked CPU that never EVER exceeded stock voltages or 125W at the socket.
@@UnfitToLiveerr no, as far as I know all Intel cpus are the same on laptop and desktop. Certainly HX are. Unlike Amd which has different chips for obvious reasons (chipset oriented vs monolithic).
I am an owner of the 13900k and finally figured out it was the issue. Replaced my graphics card etc and finally found data to prove it was intel. Basically screen goes black and thats it. Just got in contact with them for a replacement. Crazy for how much these things are. Probably going to be switching to AMD for a while now.
I built a new gaming PC 6 months ago, I used to always go Intel for CPU's but this time I was put off by the cost, power requirements, the heat they generate and the limited socket support. My 7800X3D is a beast in every way I need. Feel sorry for anyone who has built a PC with a defective intel CPU.
Brian from Tech Yes City said: "The Input/output Hub has been removed directly off the die. However, it's not directly off the CPU itself, it's still on that silicon piece that is on the actual CPU/PCB. But the input/output Hub on the CPU used to have a direct connection to the CPU".
I went to my local (well, "local") Micro Center earlier today. I only saw a couple of 13700ks and one 14700k in their case...all of the 12th gen was suddenly put up on the top shelves, and the bottom shelves were completely empty, save for those three boxes tucked in a corner. I think they know what's up and are preparing accordingly; they're gonna be on the hook for customer refunds if they sell potentially defective product.
On this chart at 3:50 Why are there 2 entries for each CPU? There's no labeling differentiating them. What's the difference between each entry of the same CPU?
@@kkrolik2106 No OC on it but before these stories came out I was thinking about of putting in a z series board and stepping up to DDR5 at the same time. But now I'm thinking I'm going to wait and see. Might be time for me to switch my rig back to AMD.
@@bubalom Right, not going to happen. I'm just going to run it at stock until it gets unstable. Then call Visa or MC whichever debit card I purchased with and file a request for refund. Under-volting is always a good idea when you have the room to do so. But running it under stock clocks isn't worth my time.
@@polarvortex6601 Im on AMD since the 90,s with Duron, then Athlon XP, Athlon 64, Phenom II, Bulldozer, Ryzen 1, Ryzen 3 5800X3D now. Never had problems or crashes in this 25+ years.
@@polarvortex66016 years of running a R5 1600 and 0 issues. I don’t think it would be unreasonable to be upset if I had “upgraded” to a new Intel chip only to see regular crashes .
@@polarvortex6601 I've had CPU issues from Intel before due to USB controllers dying, AMD I had some minor stability issues with earlier drivers back in opteron days due to dual core use (it was new then to run dual core cpu). There was a patch for it. Laptops, PSUs and Intel cpus with BD_PROCHOT flags drive me nuts too. It's fixable with workarounds but really shouldn't be an issue. Overall no issues with hardware on AMD. Minor degradation setting a world record and had Intels also degrade on me when running close to stock. CPUs are generally the most reliable component in a PC.. this fumble by Intel is substrate level failure and will be a massive can of worms
The 13900K and 14900K are the biggest problems. 13700K and 13600K are 1000 times better then the Big Ones, but still, you should deactivate your E Cores for Gaming or CPU intensive stuff, for not damaging the CPU.
Where can I get the floating Daniel Owen pointer for my PC? I was so impressed with the pointer during the pie chart portion of the video that I need one of these. An AI Daniel pointer that explains what it is pointing at would be a big seller
I was building a new pc and deciding between 14700k and 7800x3d, and after some research it seems to be a no brainer to go for AMD, better for gamers, much lower power draw and temps, I only needed to put in a 240mm to cool 7800x3d
@miha1999grobar I have overclocking on auto, when gaming at full load the clock speed goes to 4.8-5.0Ghz, and temp sits at 80C, I'd say it's perfect where it needs to be
I put arctic lf iii with 7800x3d. on Tsushima, 54-55 GPU, 59-61 CPU. CPU TDP 84degree limited. GPU rtx 4070 ti super, undervolted 1.090V to 0.925V. minus 70W power draw from normal
I am having lots of issues with my i7-14700KF PC is crashing a lot, blue screens and unstable DDR5 memory. XMP fails too on two sticks. I had to switch to my AMD R9 5900x is running pretty well and is awesome
Its funny that AMD and Intel have swapped places. Intel has become a joke in the high end CPU segment compared to AMD. But the budget 12th gen offerings such as the 12100F, 12400F and the 12600KF are basically uncontested in their price tier. Intel is the new best budget CPU vendor lol. How the tables turn.
AMD has never been "a joke" in terms of CPUs. They've had competitive products since the 386 days (and actually helped Intel develop their early x86 CPUs). For a long time they just didn't support multi-CPU configurations, so they weren't really an option for high-end servers / workstations / render nodes. That changed with the Athlon MP, and they definitely leapt ahead with the Opteron, even if sales took a long time to catch up in some market segments.
I switched on the instant 6ghz setting in my gigabyte motherboard (z790 aorus Master) two weeks ago for my 13900K. Yesterday my motherboard wouldn't boot to windows and required that i load optimized settings. It wouldn't let me choose the option to load optimized settings so i had to manually boot into the BIOS with a dedicated button on the back panel. Switched it back to performance mode and has been fine so far.
I have 14900k and rock solid in 24+ hours tests. What I did? well 56xPCore 45x ECore(I have a good sp on ecores). I made myself all vfcurve around acllc80 and dcllc100, memory tunned at. 7600MT. very low timings, 320W limit, 400A ICCMAX. Score 41k cb23, karhu 48 hours pass, cruncher vst+vt3 48 hours pass. Now 6 months later and no change in stability, but help was from Apex Encore.
@@theendoftheline maybe, but is a lot of room to tune it since it’s undervolted a lot because I don’t need that 6Ghz boost, so my vcore is even on idle at 1.3V. Ofc. Intel should have a default setting for stability, but things are bad since 8000 series.
@@catalinneculita4988 if it were an overclocking stability issue, and not actual degradation, I know its tough when the issue is beyond normal understanding of testing, because issues like this should have been caught sooner, I just wish more people looked up and realized there are bigger issues, and if you dont have them its just anecdotal evidence of a golden sample, and is probably going to happen later anyway.
@@catalinneculita4988 no, sorry, its not an overclocking issue, you dont have a lot of "headroom" for degradation to happen, you have some time with a lucky sample, thats possibly even more effed by the undervolting issues.
@@catalinneculita4988 i get it, most people just running these numbers and trying to do what was done to test past gens just wont look up and see the new issues in this chips, have fun in the sand.
You think, with how intel is handling this situation and communication with the consumers, anyone who isn't well-informed about the underlying issues is going to buy newer intel cpus?
"Hosting Recommendations: We advise anyone hosting Path of Titans servers or selling game servers to avoid purchasing or using 13th and 14th gen Intel CPUs" that really also include every PC Builder out there around the world, DO NOT BUILD WITH Friday the 13TH OR 14TH GEN cpus, go 12 and older. I don't know what Microcenter is going to do about this? Will the salesmen just keep quiet and keep selling the cpus? 🤔 And what about Amazon? Newegg?
When I went to my local (well, "local") Micro Center earlier today, I only saw a couple of 13700ks and one 14700k in their case...all of the 12th gen was suddenly put up on the top shelves, and the bottom shelves were completely empty, save for those three boxes tucked in a corner. I think they know what's up and are preparing accordingly; they're gonna be on the hook for customer refunds if they sell potentially defective product.
Daniel, I would say that it is really good bet that Alderon Games is one of Wendell's informants --- especially considering that the owner of Alderon Games was Wendell's guest on a recent expose video about Microsoft and Qualcomm that was posted 10 days ago. Considering that Wendell state he had been looking at crash reports for about a week...
Wendell really facilitated the emergence of the feline from its fabric enclosure, did he not? When Zen4 and Raptor Lake released, I did the research and opted for a 13700k. Since late Fall 2022 I've been running the system from zero to ten-ish hours per week, sometimes going nearly a month between boot-ups. So far no issues, but is it just a matter of time? If Intel were to "make gamers whole" by replacing our 13/14th gen CPUs, with what CPU? Another faulty Raptor Lake?
If they figure out the issue, they can make a new revision of the silicon (different stepping) and they can replace any faulty CPU with a new stepping one, but they have to figure out the issue and a fix first.
24:37 AMD's TDP is not the total power consumption, that's just the cores, the whole package at 170 TDP draws 230W (PPT). So the tested 7950 vs 9950 at 230w power consumption are actually at their stock TDP of 170w.
@lip-filler-looks-rank CPUs can go bad, its rare but happens, and might not be related to this major issue. My desktop runs 24/7 and has for over 1.5 years and has never had any crashing issues. Its mainly the i9s that seems so bad. I know next upgrade I'm going to be looking more at AMD.
Please keep an eye on i9s. I read about people not complaining for some time but then the cpu started to fail without any warning. They might as well have a time-bomb in them.
@@brugj03 My 7800x3d failed and had to be RMA'd but my 13900ks and 14900ks systems are still rock solid. They all can have problems. Its unfortunate when it happens either way.
They couldn't get it working in time to make the launch deadline. Lunar lake and arrow lake don't have it. Diamond rapids xeons that use the same core should have it because they had extra time to work on the design.
@@blegi1245not true. It is by design. Servers benefit from hyperthreading far more than gaming PC's. If you have enough cpu cores, technically hyperthreading can use more power for zero benefits in gaming PC's. Intels future desktop cups have no hyperthreading. To prop up multicore they have tons of tiny cores.
I'm afraid AMD users will suffer some performance shenanigans once Windows' scheduler is adjusted to compensate for these Intel issues. The vast majority of paid licenses belong to OEM devices (mostly business) running Intel CPUs.
24:35 The 170W "TDP" is equivalent to the 230W figure in the 9950X/7950X chart, which is actually showing the PPT of both of them. So the 7950X also uses 230W out of the box, which should mean 9950X is more like 20% faster like shown in the chart.
@@elu5ive Yes but also not. At stock, both 7950X/9950X hit the PPT limit which is 230W (Default PPT limit of 170W TDP parts), which in turn IS the actual power draw. That's what PPT is.
25:00 TDP is always at base clock without boost, the default boost limit for AMDs 170W TDP class CPUs is 230W, they list it as "socket power" in their older slides.
